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- Feb 27, 2014
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This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read. Mostly pertains to going through a difficult time in your life. Originally written by @Vision on Mystery’s second lounge. It was shared to me by @Karea Ricardus D.
Damn the format got messed up and I’m not taking the time to fix it. I have Vision’s permission to post this.
Hey guys,
A lot of things have happened to me in the last few months that I’d really like to share with you. As some of you know, I decided a while ago that I wanted to be in a relationship. I met a girl that I idealized greatly and got to the point where I wasn’t really going out as much to pull and just wanted to kind of build things with this girl who I really liked.
I’ve had a lot of very interesting things happen to me while that was going on which maybe you won’t be able to relate to, and maybe this will be the right time in your path to experience this with me and learn something from it.
I was watching TV at a friend's apartment the other night. We were watching this show called "Taboo" where they go around the world and find taboo subjects and talk about them. This particular episode was talking about an African tribe where, in order to become a man, you have to go through a ceremony where you're cut with a razor blade a thousand times. Then, when they cut you, they put ash in your wounds to keep them raised. The pattern they make on you is very similar to crocodile skin.
And I was interested in this because that's their definition of becoming a man. What's significant about that is, after they're cut, they can't really do much of anything. They have to lay on the ground, motionless, for days. They pick them up once in a while to pull them outside to have the elders whip their wounds in order to put them through more pain and build a bond between them and their peers. But for the most part, they have to lay there... completely motionless and helpless, with no ability to change their external circumstances.
Basically, they have to let go while they're there.
They’re pulled from the worries of the world—their past, and their future. They’re taken into the moment and given the understanding that their lives are completely empty and meaningless. They give it fulfillment. They give it meaning. They're brought into the realization that any day could be their last and they’re shown that all the drama and bullshit of their day-to-day lives could easily be ended at any time.
They learn what truly doesn’t matter.
I’ve been able to connect and build bonds with people who travel more than with people who don’t. Other people build bonds with me from some of the things I say, but for the most part, I build my strongest bonds with those who have some extensive travel under their belt.
Right now, I live in a place where drama and bullshit are king. I meet people whose lives are based around image and their superficial accomplishments and acquisitions on a day-to-day basis. It’s a lot like LA here, but there aren't really any movie stars or actors and actresses. It’s a place where, for their 18th birthdays, parents will buy their little girls breast implants as a social norm. If you don’t have a tit job when you’re 18, you’re not "hip" (God, I love this country).
Guys walk around making $30K a year, up to their eyes in debt, and buy luxury sports cars. If you want superficial, I know where you should go.
So, when I find someone I really connect with naturally and genuinely (from my side), I look at why I’m connecting with them. People who experience what it is to not have anything, to not know where their meal comes from, to not know where they’re going to sleep the next night but who can be completely secure in themselves and understand that it’s just a temporary setback that’s building and developing them as a person, seem to be a lot more “down to earth”... or free.
And it’s amazing that there are more areas than I’ve really known about in this field. Up until about 2 months ago, I was receiving validation from what I did (and I probably still do to some extent). I had some of the craziest mood swings, from being high on life to wanting to shoot myself in the head... and it was all based on my external circumstances.
I was dating this girl who was beautiful— a model, really fun and cool, intelligent, and a whole bunch of other things that I was looking for in a girl. She also happened to be really good at playing the game. And I noticed my emotions being messed with constantly due to my dependence on validation from who I was dating and how the relationship was going.
I felt like I needed her to feel like I was a genuine and worthwhile person. I’ve been in the game for years now and wasn’t that what this was really about?
And the short answer is... it’s not. I was in a bad relationship. I was in a bad financial situation. I was in a bad everything. Things in my life a few months ago seemed to be going from bad to worse.
When Priest was staying at my place here, I was moving downward into a horrible state. I was in a bad place. And it was like, all of a sudden, I flipped a light switch. I went from being stressed, exhausted, angry, sad, and frustrated to being one with myself and understanding that what I'm really worried about... doesn’t really matter. I became free.
I mean honestly, nothing that I wear or that I drive or say or the girls I meet or the friends I have... none of that defines my worth as a human being. None of that determines my success in life. I’m on this earth for more than that. I’m on this earth for a higher purpose. And everything that happens to me was destined to happen to me to build me into the awesome person that I am today and will be in the future.
Dwelling on the problem that I have right now will only hold me back. I can understand that where I am isn’t where I should be... but there’s no reason I need to be emotionally drained because of it. I always know what I need to do. I just have to do it. There’s no reason to put myself through a rollercoaster of emotions based on my external environment. Things always change.
What you need to do is figure out where you're going, direct yourself there, and then live in the moment and experience what's going on in your life so that you can be fulfilled. You should be excited because you have a world of new experiences laid out in front of you. I wouldn’t rather live at any other time or in any other place than right here and now. I love everything about this world and all the ups and downs of my day-to-day, month-to-month, and year-to-year life. And I’m empowered.
If you want to know what power is...
It’s being in complete and total control of yourself. Power is realizing letting go... Power is being free from the emotional bond of superficial accomplishments and external achievements. Power is being able to love yourself unconditionally and being free from outcomes.
In the last couple of months, I’ve found a new passion for life and my world, and nothing could possibly be as attractive to women. Nothing could be as attractive to other people looking for their way.
If you want to really understand what power is... let go. Free yourself from your past and your future and give yourself to the moment. Be with yourself right now and experience your life. Be centered in your own life and let go of your judgments just for the moment and find out what it is to just be.
Set your destination and then just do it.
You’re intelligent. You’ve lived this long and already accomplished a lot with your life. You know what you need to do and where you need to go. Take yourself there.
-Vision
Karea wrote:
"Problems don't matter, let go, live in the present," etc. — welcome to Buddhism, spiritism, and a bunch of other wisdom traditions.
EDIT: This might be a perfect time to read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.
Foolish minds think alike, as the saying goes in Europe. I’ve been curious to read an update on that girl, and after your last PM, I never expected you’d stop going out to pull... but in the end, you’ve come to some of the same conclusions that I have come to recently. I also wrote a post about some great learnings I’ve had from the situation with my GF.
David DeAngelo talks a lot about this tribal process of initiating a boy into manhood through suffering in his program "On Being a Man" as you probably know. And, these kinds of painful processes happen in life all by themselves sometimes — life itself can cut you up pretty bad and then throw ashes in the wounds. And yes, it always makes us grow in ways that bring benefits which far outweigh the pain. "Pain is weakness leaving the body."
Vision:
Yeah, I was telling my father about some of the things I’ve been having epiphanies on the other day, and he recommended Eckhart Tolle as well. I just got his book so I’ll read it as soon as I’m done with American Psycho.
Karea wrote:
Foolish minds think alike, as the saying goes in Europe. I’ve been curious to read an update on that girl, and after your last PM, I never expected you’d stop going out to pull... but in the end, you’ve come to some of the same conclusions that I have come to recently. I also wrote a post about some great learnings I’ve had from the situation with my GF.
Vision:
Well... I still went on some day 2s and fucked some new girls (I warned her... I'm not relationship material). It was actually really good for me in uncovering some of the blind spots in my game. I've also developed a really good pivot out of it. I'll give you an update on what happened later in the post.
Karea wrote:
David DeAngelo talks a lot about this tribal process of initiating a boy into manhood through suffering in his program "On Being a Man" as you probably know. And, these kinds of painful processes happen in life all by themselves sometimes — life itself can cut you up pretty bad and then throw ashes in the wounds. And yes, it always makes us grow in ways that bring benefits which far outweigh the pain. "Pain is weakness leaving the body."
Vision:
Cool. I should probably check that out. I never really felt a need to watch that program, but I'm sure it has some good information in it.
Karea wrote:
I've had an experience like that 4 years ago where I had mood swings like you write about — exhilarating ecstasy at one time and bone-crushing emotional pain that literally throws you on the floor curled up in agony at another.
I had just lost the only girl I ever felt as much as I'm capable of feeling for, and she seemed to suddenly get pleasure out of making me suffer. I was broke to the point where I had 5 € in my wallet and an empty bank account. I went from living at the beach and working in a dream job to being jobless and apartmentless in a foreign country where I didn’t know a single soul. I didn’t see any perspective professionally, and I spent some time realizing that there really is such a thing as hell.
The experience led me to great introspection though, and to the realization of impermanence and that nothing worldly really matters. I looked into spiritualism and learned a ton... but most importantly, this experience brought me to the point where I felt free. I learned to feel serene about everything, about existence itself. For the first time in my life, I didn't want anything — and I didn't have any problems. Simply because I realized that problems don't matter.
Now, I would even go as far as saying that problems are a good thing.
Vision:
Amen.
Karea wrote:
So, I started setting new goals for myself... but I was now working toward achieving them with true outcome independence. After achieving everything I ever wanted and then losing it all, I got passionate about life again, but without attachment. I came to the point where I now enjoy life so much that I don't want to go to bed at night because I’m having too much fun even when I'm working. And when you live life in this way, you don’t want to watch TV anymore because real life becomes an adventure far more exciting than any director could ever dream up.
Vision:
I feel the exact same way.
Karea wrote:
One might argue that we are always exactly where we should be because whatever position or situation we find ourselves in is exactly what we need at that point in time to learn the next lesson and grow to the next level.
Vision:
I can understand that where I am isn’t where I should be...
Karea wrote:
One might argue that we are always exactly where we should be because whatever position or situation we find ourselves in is exactly what we need at that point in time to learn the next lesson and grow to the next level. Just like you said:
Vision:
Everything that happens to me was destined to happen to me to build me into the awesome person that I am today and will be in the future.
Karea wrote:
The bottom line is that life is fucking awesome, and we have a lot to look forward to. For the last 100 years, despite any setbacks, every single country has overall become much richer and healthier. We also have a responsibility to do our part in improving things where they're still shit. There are a lot of things to be excited and optimistic about, and the future will be brighter than we can even imagine right now.
-Karea
EDIT: This might be a perfect time to read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.
I was broke to the point where I had €5 in my wallet and an empty bank account. I went from living at the beach and working in a dream job to being jobless and apartment-less in a foreign country where I didn’t know a single soul. I didn’t see any perspective professionally, and I spent some time realizing that there really is such a thing as hell.
The experience led me to great introspection though, and to the realization of impermanence—that nothing worldly really matters. I looked into spiritualism and learned a ton... but most importantly, this experience brought me to the point where I felt free. I learned to feel serene about everything—about existence itself. For the first time in my life, I didn’t want anything—and I didn’t have any problems. Simply because I realized that problems don’t matter.
Now, I would even go as far as saying that problems are a good thing.
I came to the point where I now enjoy life so much that I don’t want to go to bed at night because I’m having too much fun—even when I’m working. And when you live life in this way, you don’t want to watch TV anymore because real life becomes an adventure far more exciting than any director could ever dream up.
I have come to very similar conclusions in my post about my relationship that I linked up above. One thought:
Vision’s Story:
I agree with that.
Alright... I'll give you the down and dirty on what happened in the relationship. I’m pretty sure she’s read some books on how to wrap men around your finger because the irrational lunacy of the situation kept heightening more and more. And I don’t think she realized she was dealing with a seasoned pro. But, I did get sucked into it. I really liked that girl.
However, I uncovered some HUGE sexual hangups and serious life issues that I didn’t realize she had before. And she was right when she told me she wasn’t strong enough mentally to date me. She hid her true self and sheltered her heart.
We broke up a couple of times. Mostly, I think she was trying to mess with me, or maybe she was just really weak and trying to protect herself. I don’t know. But, it always seemed like when things would progress and the better our relationship would grow, the more she’d have erratic behavior and run from what was going on.
The Breaking Point:
Basically, she disrespected me majorly on Valentine’s Day. I told her she was a bitch and that she could go fuck herself (I was pretty drunk and being reactive at the time). After that, we didn’t really talk much. I’d see her here and there at random places, and she started doing things to try to get my attention. But, I maintained radio silence. For me, when you disrespect me like that... it’s over. I fuck way too many girls to deal with some chick who’d act like that.
The last time I saw her actually was last week. I was supposed to go on this blind date, and I invited a girl out for a day too—both on the same night. Then, when my blind date canceled, I texted a bunch of girls in my phone to meet me for karaoke at the bar near me.
Karaoke Night and the Drama That Ensued:
About 10 minutes later, one of my FBs (let's call her FB1) called and said she was on her way over with some wine. She drove over to my place and was planning to get drunk with me. And, I was expecting this to happen because it was about the right time frame for me to drop this FB. But, her timing is impeccable. She’d been trying to relationship frame me for the last couple of weeks—talking about how she doesn’t normally sleep with guys that quickly and how she met a guy she really likes and how I’m cooler and have more going for me than other guys she hangs out with.
She does something that I can only label as maybe a shit test. She’s like, “Hey... I don’t think we should have sex anymore. We can just hang out and make out and stuff but not have sex.” She obviously didn’t know what was coming later in the night, so I passively accepted and we hung out and played a drinking game for a while. She tried to kiss me, and I denied her.
Then, around 10, FB1 and I went to the karaoke bar.
Well, I get there and there’s actually a bunch of people there already. The girl from the relationship (we’ll call her Nomore1), her roommate (the guy player), was there. I talked to her a little bit. She kept referring to Nomore1 as "her" and "she" and didn’t mention whether she was coming or not. I didn’t expect to see her there. After all, it’s MY bar, and they know the days that I go there, and that was one of them.
The Encounter:
So, Nomore1 shows up. And, I can’t explain her showing up other than wanting to talk to me about things. I saw her a few days before and I could tell she was really emotionally messed up about seeing me and started acting extremely erratic near me for no apparent reason. She obviously didn’t know what was going on that night either because she definitely wouldn’t have shown up.
I sit and talk to FB1 for about 20 or 30 minutes. Well, one of the girls that I texted showed up (FB2) from one of my drunken nights at Dos Gringos. FB2 is like this super spiritual and free-spirited type girl who is a shit ton of fun and extremely feminine. I really enjoy hanging out with her, and she brought her brother (who happened to be in town) and a bunch of her karaoke buddies (she does the same karaoke night thing I do but in a different subcity of Phoenix).
FB1 was talking to some other guys, so I went to talk to FB2. She jumps on me, hugs me, and we go sit at the bar and start babbling on about who knows what. She was actually one of the first girls other than Nomore1 who I talked to about a lot of my spiritual breakthroughs I’ve had in the recent months.
The Drama Intensifies:
Nomore1 went from basically sitting at the bar stool (by herself) looking in our direction to having her back turned completely away from us in what looked like an awkward way to be sitting at a bar (obviously not too happy about the situation). FB2 and I started making out at the bar, and she’s like putting her head on my chest and doing other random stuff that I find adorable. We both get shit-faced.
Well, I’ve got a couple of guy friends who want me to text them whenever I go to the bar. Mostly, because they want to watch me game chicks (they were amazed at how many girls I bring to and pull from this bar). They start talking to FB2 while I was outside talking to this chick who happens to be an advanced yoga instructor and wants to teach me some advanced yoga moves (I don’t even know what that means, but it sounded cool when I was drunk).
They were telling FB2 what they thought I wanted her to hear (obviously, they don’t know anything about what I want them to hear). Which was apparently just a whole bunch of stuff I told them about what I like and dislike about different girls' behaviors. I think it went something like this...
Guy Friends’ Advice:
“When you’re with Matt, he wants you to be with Matt. He doesn’t care what you do when you’re not with him. He doesn’t care about what any of his girls do when they aren’t with him. He doesn’t care what you do as long as you and he know that you’re together when you’re together.”
I come back into the bar, and she’s like, “Um... What’s up with your girls?” Then she started talking about all the shit they were saying to her, and she said they had some rules laid out or something about "Matt’s relationships." I was just like... “Look... I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. All I know is that I like you... and I enjoy spending time with you.” She seemed pretty cool with that answer.
And right then, FB1 comes over and puts her arms around my neck and tries to get a makeout from me. She said something to the effect of, “I know you’re hanging out with other girls, and I’m hanging out with other guys... but are we going home together?” And I was like, “Hey... I’m trying to get laid tonight. If I hang out with you... that’s not going to happen.” She didn’t seem too happy with that and went drunk stumbling to the other side of the bar.
So, then I’m talking to FB2 again and one of the guys comes up and is like, “Hey... my sister was asking about you, Matt. You guys really seemed like you got along well together. She was only in town for a couple of days, but you guys spent that whole night together.” And I was like... “Dude... get the fuck outta here. What are you doing?”
I look over, and Nomore1 is talking to this guy that I’m trying to get to hook up with her so maybe she’ll be preoccupied and stop showing up at my venues.
Final Thoughts:
So, anyway, I haven’t talked to Nomore1 or FB1 since then, and I’ve determined that I need to either stop pulling girls to this karaoke bar or I need to regroup with the guys who are coming and get them on the same program as me. Everything turned out okay because I’m okay with it though. I’m not bothered by the guys saying those things... it’s just not as useful as some other things they could have said instead.
On External Validation:
On a side note, I just want to answer some of the PMs I’ve gotten from a couple of different boards about my post. Just to let you know, I’m not a guru on getting rid of external validations. Everything that I’ve read and done has been a product of circumstance. The only references I’ve had to some of this stuff so far have been Fight Club and Peaceful Warrior.
Disclaimer: I’m not responsible for any of your actions. Don’t come to me after you’ve attempted some type of miscalibrated behaviors and tell me it’s my fault. Be responsible for yourself and your own actions.
Karea’s Response:
Interesting story, thanks for sharing. The first thing that comes to mind when I read this is, like I said on the other thread, these games and power struggles can’t lead to anything good in my experience—no matter whether you win or lose them, it fucks up the relationship.
If you’re really interested in a girl, they must be disarmed before they even come up, or at the first occurrence at the latest.
Guys who are part of your group screwing up your game are much more hazardous than anything a cockblock from her group ever could do. Simply because they’re guys that are supposed to be aligned with you. If he rolls with you, anything he says will have a lot more weight than if he’s just some random.
I recently had a guy I went out with (and who thought of himself as a player) blurt out in front of two Japanese girls: “Karea, they’re both into you. I think you can threesome them tonight.”
I also give the advice to experiment with never bringing up anything that validates us in conversations. My wing Boris Hendrick first taught me about that a few years ago. He told me if he’s not all that interested in a girl, he DHVs, makes her impressed with him, and sleeps with her... but if he’s really interested though, he’ll LET HER FIND OUT. It will have a much stronger impact.
Let me know if this works for you!
Damn the format got messed up and I’m not taking the time to fix it. I have Vision’s permission to post this.
Hey guys,
A lot of things have happened to me in the last few months that I’d really like to share with you. As some of you know, I decided a while ago that I wanted to be in a relationship. I met a girl that I idealized greatly and got to the point where I wasn’t really going out as much to pull and just wanted to kind of build things with this girl who I really liked.
I’ve had a lot of very interesting things happen to me while that was going on which maybe you won’t be able to relate to, and maybe this will be the right time in your path to experience this with me and learn something from it.
I was watching TV at a friend's apartment the other night. We were watching this show called "Taboo" where they go around the world and find taboo subjects and talk about them. This particular episode was talking about an African tribe where, in order to become a man, you have to go through a ceremony where you're cut with a razor blade a thousand times. Then, when they cut you, they put ash in your wounds to keep them raised. The pattern they make on you is very similar to crocodile skin.
And I was interested in this because that's their definition of becoming a man. What's significant about that is, after they're cut, they can't really do much of anything. They have to lay on the ground, motionless, for days. They pick them up once in a while to pull them outside to have the elders whip their wounds in order to put them through more pain and build a bond between them and their peers. But for the most part, they have to lay there... completely motionless and helpless, with no ability to change their external circumstances.
Basically, they have to let go while they're there.
They’re pulled from the worries of the world—their past, and their future. They’re taken into the moment and given the understanding that their lives are completely empty and meaningless. They give it fulfillment. They give it meaning. They're brought into the realization that any day could be their last and they’re shown that all the drama and bullshit of their day-to-day lives could easily be ended at any time.
They learn what truly doesn’t matter.
I’ve been able to connect and build bonds with people who travel more than with people who don’t. Other people build bonds with me from some of the things I say, but for the most part, I build my strongest bonds with those who have some extensive travel under their belt.
Right now, I live in a place where drama and bullshit are king. I meet people whose lives are based around image and their superficial accomplishments and acquisitions on a day-to-day basis. It’s a lot like LA here, but there aren't really any movie stars or actors and actresses. It’s a place where, for their 18th birthdays, parents will buy their little girls breast implants as a social norm. If you don’t have a tit job when you’re 18, you’re not "hip" (God, I love this country).
Guys walk around making $30K a year, up to their eyes in debt, and buy luxury sports cars. If you want superficial, I know where you should go.
So, when I find someone I really connect with naturally and genuinely (from my side), I look at why I’m connecting with them. People who experience what it is to not have anything, to not know where their meal comes from, to not know where they’re going to sleep the next night but who can be completely secure in themselves and understand that it’s just a temporary setback that’s building and developing them as a person, seem to be a lot more “down to earth”... or free.
And it’s amazing that there are more areas than I’ve really known about in this field. Up until about 2 months ago, I was receiving validation from what I did (and I probably still do to some extent). I had some of the craziest mood swings, from being high on life to wanting to shoot myself in the head... and it was all based on my external circumstances.
I was dating this girl who was beautiful— a model, really fun and cool, intelligent, and a whole bunch of other things that I was looking for in a girl. She also happened to be really good at playing the game. And I noticed my emotions being messed with constantly due to my dependence on validation from who I was dating and how the relationship was going.
I felt like I needed her to feel like I was a genuine and worthwhile person. I’ve been in the game for years now and wasn’t that what this was really about?
And the short answer is... it’s not. I was in a bad relationship. I was in a bad financial situation. I was in a bad everything. Things in my life a few months ago seemed to be going from bad to worse.
When Priest was staying at my place here, I was moving downward into a horrible state. I was in a bad place. And it was like, all of a sudden, I flipped a light switch. I went from being stressed, exhausted, angry, sad, and frustrated to being one with myself and understanding that what I'm really worried about... doesn’t really matter. I became free.
I mean honestly, nothing that I wear or that I drive or say or the girls I meet or the friends I have... none of that defines my worth as a human being. None of that determines my success in life. I’m on this earth for more than that. I’m on this earth for a higher purpose. And everything that happens to me was destined to happen to me to build me into the awesome person that I am today and will be in the future.
Dwelling on the problem that I have right now will only hold me back. I can understand that where I am isn’t where I should be... but there’s no reason I need to be emotionally drained because of it. I always know what I need to do. I just have to do it. There’s no reason to put myself through a rollercoaster of emotions based on my external environment. Things always change.
What you need to do is figure out where you're going, direct yourself there, and then live in the moment and experience what's going on in your life so that you can be fulfilled. You should be excited because you have a world of new experiences laid out in front of you. I wouldn’t rather live at any other time or in any other place than right here and now. I love everything about this world and all the ups and downs of my day-to-day, month-to-month, and year-to-year life. And I’m empowered.
If you want to know what power is...
It’s being in complete and total control of yourself. Power is realizing letting go... Power is being free from the emotional bond of superficial accomplishments and external achievements. Power is being able to love yourself unconditionally and being free from outcomes.
In the last couple of months, I’ve found a new passion for life and my world, and nothing could possibly be as attractive to women. Nothing could be as attractive to other people looking for their way.
If you want to really understand what power is... let go. Free yourself from your past and your future and give yourself to the moment. Be with yourself right now and experience your life. Be centered in your own life and let go of your judgments just for the moment and find out what it is to just be.
Set your destination and then just do it.
You’re intelligent. You’ve lived this long and already accomplished a lot with your life. You know what you need to do and where you need to go. Take yourself there.
-Vision
Karea wrote:
"Problems don't matter, let go, live in the present," etc. — welcome to Buddhism, spiritism, and a bunch of other wisdom traditions.
EDIT: This might be a perfect time to read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.
Foolish minds think alike, as the saying goes in Europe. I’ve been curious to read an update on that girl, and after your last PM, I never expected you’d stop going out to pull... but in the end, you’ve come to some of the same conclusions that I have come to recently. I also wrote a post about some great learnings I’ve had from the situation with my GF.
David DeAngelo talks a lot about this tribal process of initiating a boy into manhood through suffering in his program "On Being a Man" as you probably know. And, these kinds of painful processes happen in life all by themselves sometimes — life itself can cut you up pretty bad and then throw ashes in the wounds. And yes, it always makes us grow in ways that bring benefits which far outweigh the pain. "Pain is weakness leaving the body."
Vision:
Yeah, I was telling my father about some of the things I’ve been having epiphanies on the other day, and he recommended Eckhart Tolle as well. I just got his book so I’ll read it as soon as I’m done with American Psycho.
Karea wrote:
Foolish minds think alike, as the saying goes in Europe. I’ve been curious to read an update on that girl, and after your last PM, I never expected you’d stop going out to pull... but in the end, you’ve come to some of the same conclusions that I have come to recently. I also wrote a post about some great learnings I’ve had from the situation with my GF.
Vision:
Well... I still went on some day 2s and fucked some new girls (I warned her... I'm not relationship material). It was actually really good for me in uncovering some of the blind spots in my game. I've also developed a really good pivot out of it. I'll give you an update on what happened later in the post.
Karea wrote:
David DeAngelo talks a lot about this tribal process of initiating a boy into manhood through suffering in his program "On Being a Man" as you probably know. And, these kinds of painful processes happen in life all by themselves sometimes — life itself can cut you up pretty bad and then throw ashes in the wounds. And yes, it always makes us grow in ways that bring benefits which far outweigh the pain. "Pain is weakness leaving the body."
Vision:
Cool. I should probably check that out. I never really felt a need to watch that program, but I'm sure it has some good information in it.
Karea wrote:
I've had an experience like that 4 years ago where I had mood swings like you write about — exhilarating ecstasy at one time and bone-crushing emotional pain that literally throws you on the floor curled up in agony at another.
I had just lost the only girl I ever felt as much as I'm capable of feeling for, and she seemed to suddenly get pleasure out of making me suffer. I was broke to the point where I had 5 € in my wallet and an empty bank account. I went from living at the beach and working in a dream job to being jobless and apartmentless in a foreign country where I didn’t know a single soul. I didn’t see any perspective professionally, and I spent some time realizing that there really is such a thing as hell.
The experience led me to great introspection though, and to the realization of impermanence and that nothing worldly really matters. I looked into spiritualism and learned a ton... but most importantly, this experience brought me to the point where I felt free. I learned to feel serene about everything, about existence itself. For the first time in my life, I didn't want anything — and I didn't have any problems. Simply because I realized that problems don't matter.
Now, I would even go as far as saying that problems are a good thing.
Vision:
Amen.
Karea wrote:
So, I started setting new goals for myself... but I was now working toward achieving them with true outcome independence. After achieving everything I ever wanted and then losing it all, I got passionate about life again, but without attachment. I came to the point where I now enjoy life so much that I don't want to go to bed at night because I’m having too much fun even when I'm working. And when you live life in this way, you don’t want to watch TV anymore because real life becomes an adventure far more exciting than any director could ever dream up.
Vision:
I feel the exact same way.
Karea wrote:
One might argue that we are always exactly where we should be because whatever position or situation we find ourselves in is exactly what we need at that point in time to learn the next lesson and grow to the next level.
Vision:
I can understand that where I am isn’t where I should be...
Karea wrote:
One might argue that we are always exactly where we should be because whatever position or situation we find ourselves in is exactly what we need at that point in time to learn the next lesson and grow to the next level. Just like you said:
Vision:
Everything that happens to me was destined to happen to me to build me into the awesome person that I am today and will be in the future.
Karea wrote:
The bottom line is that life is fucking awesome, and we have a lot to look forward to. For the last 100 years, despite any setbacks, every single country has overall become much richer and healthier. We also have a responsibility to do our part in improving things where they're still shit. There are a lot of things to be excited and optimistic about, and the future will be brighter than we can even imagine right now.
-Karea
Karea & Vision: Reflections on Life, Relationships, and Growth
Karea
"Problems don't matter, let go, live in the present, etc. - welcome to Buddhism, spiritism, and a bunch of other wisdom traditions."EDIT: This might be a perfect time to read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.
Vision
Yeah, I was telling my father about some of the things I've been having epiphanies on the other day and he recommended Eckhart Tolle as well. I just got his book so I'll read it as soon as I'm done with American Psycho.Karea
Foolish minds think alike, as the saying goes in Europe. I’ve been curious to read an update on that girl. After your last PM, I never expected you'd stop going out to pull... but in the end of the day, you’ve come to some of the same conclusions I have. I also wrote a post about some great learnings I’ve had from the situation with my girlfriend.Vision
Well... I still went on some Day 2s and hooked up with some new girls (I warned her... I’m not relationship material). It was actually really good for me, uncovering some of the blind spots in my game. I’ve also developed a solid pivot out of it. I’ll give you an update on what happened later in the post.Karea
David DeAngelo talks a lot about this tribal process of initiating a boy into manhood through suffering in his program On Being a Man, as you probably know. These kinds of painful processes happen in life all by themselves sometimes. Life itself can cut you up pretty bad and then throw ashes in the wounds. And yes, it always makes us grow in ways that bring benefits far outweighing the pain. "Pain is weakness leaving the body."Vision
Cool. I should probably check that out. I never really felt a need to watch that program, but I’m sure it has some good information in it.Karea
I’ve had an experience like that 4 years ago where I had mood swings like you write about—exhilarating ecstasy at one time and bone-crushing emotional pain that literally threw me on the floor curled up in agony at another. I had just lost the only girl I ever felt as much as I’m capable of feeling for, and she seemed to suddenly get pleasure out of making me suffer.I was broke to the point where I had €5 in my wallet and an empty bank account. I went from living at the beach and working in a dream job to being jobless and apartment-less in a foreign country where I didn’t know a single soul. I didn’t see any perspective professionally, and I spent some time realizing that there really is such a thing as hell.
The experience led me to great introspection though, and to the realization of impermanence—that nothing worldly really matters. I looked into spiritualism and learned a ton... but most importantly, this experience brought me to the point where I felt free. I learned to feel serene about everything—about existence itself. For the first time in my life, I didn’t want anything—and I didn’t have any problems. Simply because I realized that problems don’t matter.
Now, I would even go as far as saying that problems are a good thing.
Vision
Amen.Karea
So, I started setting new goals for myself... but now I was working toward achieving them with true outcome independence. After achieving everything I ever wanted and then losing it all, I got passionate about life again—but without attachment.I came to the point where I now enjoy life so much that I don’t want to go to bed at night because I’m having too much fun—even when I’m working. And when you live life in this way, you don’t want to watch TV anymore because real life becomes an adventure far more exciting than any director could ever dream up.
I have come to very similar conclusions in my post about my relationship that I linked up above. One thought:
Vision
I feel the exact same way.Karea
One might argue that we are always exactly where we should be, because whatever position or situation we find ourselves in is exactly what we need at that point in time to learn the next lesson and grow to the next level.Vision’s Story:
I agree with that.
Alright... I'll give you the down and dirty on what happened in the relationship. I’m pretty sure she’s read some books on how to wrap men around your finger because the irrational lunacy of the situation kept heightening more and more. And I don’t think she realized she was dealing with a seasoned pro. But, I did get sucked into it. I really liked that girl.
However, I uncovered some HUGE sexual hangups and serious life issues that I didn’t realize she had before. And she was right when she told me she wasn’t strong enough mentally to date me. She hid her true self and sheltered her heart.
We broke up a couple of times. Mostly, I think she was trying to mess with me, or maybe she was just really weak and trying to protect herself. I don’t know. But, it always seemed like when things would progress and the better our relationship would grow, the more she’d have erratic behavior and run from what was going on.
The Breaking Point:
Basically, she disrespected me majorly on Valentine’s Day. I told her she was a bitch and that she could go fuck herself (I was pretty drunk and being reactive at the time). After that, we didn’t really talk much. I’d see her here and there at random places, and she started doing things to try to get my attention. But, I maintained radio silence. For me, when you disrespect me like that... it’s over. I fuck way too many girls to deal with some chick who’d act like that.
The last time I saw her actually was last week. I was supposed to go on this blind date, and I invited a girl out for a day too—both on the same night. Then, when my blind date canceled, I texted a bunch of girls in my phone to meet me for karaoke at the bar near me.
Karaoke Night and the Drama That Ensued:
About 10 minutes later, one of my FBs (let's call her FB1) called and said she was on her way over with some wine. She drove over to my place and was planning to get drunk with me. And, I was expecting this to happen because it was about the right time frame for me to drop this FB. But, her timing is impeccable. She’d been trying to relationship frame me for the last couple of weeks—talking about how she doesn’t normally sleep with guys that quickly and how she met a guy she really likes and how I’m cooler and have more going for me than other guys she hangs out with.
She does something that I can only label as maybe a shit test. She’s like, “Hey... I don’t think we should have sex anymore. We can just hang out and make out and stuff but not have sex.” She obviously didn’t know what was coming later in the night, so I passively accepted and we hung out and played a drinking game for a while. She tried to kiss me, and I denied her.
Then, around 10, FB1 and I went to the karaoke bar.
Well, I get there and there’s actually a bunch of people there already. The girl from the relationship (we’ll call her Nomore1), her roommate (the guy player), was there. I talked to her a little bit. She kept referring to Nomore1 as "her" and "she" and didn’t mention whether she was coming or not. I didn’t expect to see her there. After all, it’s MY bar, and they know the days that I go there, and that was one of them.
The Encounter:
So, Nomore1 shows up. And, I can’t explain her showing up other than wanting to talk to me about things. I saw her a few days before and I could tell she was really emotionally messed up about seeing me and started acting extremely erratic near me for no apparent reason. She obviously didn’t know what was going on that night either because she definitely wouldn’t have shown up.
I sit and talk to FB1 for about 20 or 30 minutes. Well, one of the girls that I texted showed up (FB2) from one of my drunken nights at Dos Gringos. FB2 is like this super spiritual and free-spirited type girl who is a shit ton of fun and extremely feminine. I really enjoy hanging out with her, and she brought her brother (who happened to be in town) and a bunch of her karaoke buddies (she does the same karaoke night thing I do but in a different subcity of Phoenix).
FB1 was talking to some other guys, so I went to talk to FB2. She jumps on me, hugs me, and we go sit at the bar and start babbling on about who knows what. She was actually one of the first girls other than Nomore1 who I talked to about a lot of my spiritual breakthroughs I’ve had in the recent months.
The Drama Intensifies:
Nomore1 went from basically sitting at the bar stool (by herself) looking in our direction to having her back turned completely away from us in what looked like an awkward way to be sitting at a bar (obviously not too happy about the situation). FB2 and I started making out at the bar, and she’s like putting her head on my chest and doing other random stuff that I find adorable. We both get shit-faced.
Well, I’ve got a couple of guy friends who want me to text them whenever I go to the bar. Mostly, because they want to watch me game chicks (they were amazed at how many girls I bring to and pull from this bar). They start talking to FB2 while I was outside talking to this chick who happens to be an advanced yoga instructor and wants to teach me some advanced yoga moves (I don’t even know what that means, but it sounded cool when I was drunk).
They were telling FB2 what they thought I wanted her to hear (obviously, they don’t know anything about what I want them to hear). Which was apparently just a whole bunch of stuff I told them about what I like and dislike about different girls' behaviors. I think it went something like this...
Guy Friends’ Advice:
“When you’re with Matt, he wants you to be with Matt. He doesn’t care what you do when you’re not with him. He doesn’t care about what any of his girls do when they aren’t with him. He doesn’t care what you do as long as you and he know that you’re together when you’re together.”
I come back into the bar, and she’s like, “Um... What’s up with your girls?” Then she started talking about all the shit they were saying to her, and she said they had some rules laid out or something about "Matt’s relationships." I was just like... “Look... I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. All I know is that I like you... and I enjoy spending time with you.” She seemed pretty cool with that answer.
And right then, FB1 comes over and puts her arms around my neck and tries to get a makeout from me. She said something to the effect of, “I know you’re hanging out with other girls, and I’m hanging out with other guys... but are we going home together?” And I was like, “Hey... I’m trying to get laid tonight. If I hang out with you... that’s not going to happen.” She didn’t seem too happy with that and went drunk stumbling to the other side of the bar.
So, then I’m talking to FB2 again and one of the guys comes up and is like, “Hey... my sister was asking about you, Matt. You guys really seemed like you got along well together. She was only in town for a couple of days, but you guys spent that whole night together.” And I was like... “Dude... get the fuck outta here. What are you doing?”
I look over, and Nomore1 is talking to this guy that I’m trying to get to hook up with her so maybe she’ll be preoccupied and stop showing up at my venues.
Final Thoughts:
So, anyway, I haven’t talked to Nomore1 or FB1 since then, and I’ve determined that I need to either stop pulling girls to this karaoke bar or I need to regroup with the guys who are coming and get them on the same program as me. Everything turned out okay because I’m okay with it though. I’m not bothered by the guys saying those things... it’s just not as useful as some other things they could have said instead.
On External Validation:
On a side note, I just want to answer some of the PMs I’ve gotten from a couple of different boards about my post. Just to let you know, I’m not a guru on getting rid of external validations. Everything that I’ve read and done has been a product of circumstance. The only references I’ve had to some of this stuff so far have been Fight Club and Peaceful Warrior.
Disclaimer: I’m not responsible for any of your actions. Don’t come to me after you’ve attempted some type of miscalibrated behaviors and tell me it’s my fault. Be responsible for yourself and your own actions.
Techniques to Reduce External Validation:
- Embrace Your Validation:
- Accept that you’re externally validated and confront it head-on. If you have an insecurity about something you have or do, go to the extreme with it and embrace it. Feel it and become okay with it.
- Seek the Destruction of Your Self-Ideal:
- Get rid of the bullshit in your life that might be validating you (but don’t sell your car/house/girlfriend). Stop bringing it up in discussions and stop showing it off. Tell people you do/have something less validating and experience your awkwardness. You can destroy your self-ideal and completely redevelop it.
- Be Without:
- Deprive yourself of the luxuries that give you your validation. Stop watching TV, stop playing video games, stop eating at nice restaurants, and buying new groceries. Destroy your old routines and develop new ones. Put yourself in strange social situations and create awkward moments with strangers.
Karea’s Response:
Interesting story, thanks for sharing. The first thing that comes to mind when I read this is, like I said on the other thread, these games and power struggles can’t lead to anything good in my experience—no matter whether you win or lose them, it fucks up the relationship.
If you’re really interested in a girl, they must be disarmed before they even come up, or at the first occurrence at the latest.
Guys who are part of your group screwing up your game are much more hazardous than anything a cockblock from her group ever could do. Simply because they’re guys that are supposed to be aligned with you. If he rolls with you, anything he says will have a lot more weight than if he’s just some random.
I recently had a guy I went out with (and who thought of himself as a player) blurt out in front of two Japanese girls: “Karea, they’re both into you. I think you can threesome them tonight.”
I also give the advice to experiment with never bringing up anything that validates us in conversations. My wing Boris Hendrick first taught me about that a few years ago. He told me if he’s not all that interested in a girl, he DHVs, makes her impressed with him, and sleeps with her... but if he’s really interested though, he’ll LET HER FIND OUT. It will have a much stronger impact.
Let me know if this works for you!
