ways seduction community can make you weird

[Smith]

Found this interesting article, and realized a lot of what's said is so true. Seduction has improved my life a lot, but be aware of how the community can also skewed your view of the world.

https://donatellosnest.wordpress.co...s-the-seduction-community-can-make-you-weird/

 

[ray_zorse]

I think we avoid a lot of the problems mentioned in this article by adhering to the philosophy taught by Chase and the other authors on this site, which is biased more towards genuine self improvement and "natural game" i.e. making the concepts such as sexual flirting a part of who you are, rather than using routines, canned openers and so on... OTOH we may be guilty of guru-ifying as he points out in the article. Oh well.

What I can't really agree with is his listing a million ways that women are totally flakey, and then saying this is unbalanced and that most women are just regular, normal people and not like that at all. Because I think they can be both. I firmly believe what Chase teaches about women's attitudes, tendencies, preferences and emotions... over what this author says. Because since GC I have observed it over and over by with own eyes. But I also agree with this author's point that the same girls can be normal, well adjusted, sensible people.

The thing is that one takes place at an unconscious level totally outside the girl's awareness and the other takes place at a conscious level. Basically by the time we rationalize the reasons we're about to go home with someone and bang them, the subconscious had long ago decided what would or should happen. I've become more aware of this lately through tackling my co-dependency issues which is what results when the subconscious makes screwed up decisions that tend to replicate the dysfunctional environment we were raised in.

I also don't agree that all wannabe PUAs are children who never passed through the normal milestones that average normal guys do in teenagehood... Let's see, I'm a pretty regular guy... neither popular nor unpopular at school... interested in other people, socializes... lost virginity at 16 with a ONS, briefly had a GF at 19, hit an LTR at 21... some other GFs/LTRs in my 20s, hit a long dry spell due to drug / porn issues but lifted myself out of it without PUA advice... married, divorced, was banging a younger chick for a year and had been on various dates / fluked some club makeouts etc when I discovered GC... and although there are in fact dudes starting from a long way behind the start line, that just makes the community even more important so I found his generalizations a bit too much.

-Ray

 

[Smith]

The writer mentioned a lot of things that I noticed happened to me on my 'journey'. I didn't use to classify guys according to their ability with girls, but now I couldn't help to put guys into categories based on their 'game'. It's kinda weird and it makes it hard to make friends with guys who is not 'good with game'. So I found there's a little bit of truth in his article.

I also don't agree that all wannabe PUAs are children who never passed through the normal milestones that average normal guys do in teenagehood... Let's see, I'm a pretty regular guy... neither popular nor unpopular at school... interested in other people, socializes... lost virginity at 16 with a ONS, briefly had a GF at 19, hit an LTR at 21... some other GFs/LTRs in my 20s, hit a long dry spell due to drug / porn issues but lifted myself out of it without PUA advice... married, divorced, was banging a younger chick for a year and had been on various dates / fluked some club makeouts etc when I discovered GC... and although there are in fact dudes starting from a long way behind the start line, that just makes the community even more important so I found his generalizations a bit too much

Different guys become interested in seduction because of variety of reasons, so yes he might be generalizing a bit too much, but I would say most of the guys that want to do 'pick up' are a bit left behind in the dating arena and I was one of them. It was a good thing that I found GC, otherwise I might still be a virgin today. But I feel there's a middle ground that you have to achieve so you're not too weird getting into this 'PUA' thing but you're also not a social conditioned guy and you're able to see the world as it is and get what you want out of it.

 

[ray_zorse]

Yes, rereading I probably sounded a bit defensive but I suppose what got me onto that train of thought was wanting to say that so-called "normal" guys who have been on dates, made out as teenagers etc, actually have a lot of approach anxiety, freeze up a lot (especially when it counts) so PU is really not just for chodes who stayed home masturbating to porn through their teenage years (not that I didn't do a lot of that too but you know what I mean). I really think there's nothing wrong with getting a process down for doing what you want to do in an effortless and stress free manner. Such as when I approached a hot model at my sister's fashion school and proceeded to tease her and give her shit as well as getting physical, grabbing her hand and leading her places etc (prompting sister to say afterwards Ray!! You just can't do that!!, but she loved it although refused a coffee date with some complicated reason), I was totally relaxed and following my process whereas as a so-called "normal" guy who had hit all his milestones as a teenager and whatnot, I would have frozen up for sure, just from knowing she was a model. That's why I think this guy is somewhat FOS, I really didn't agree with his article and I'd venture to say he's gone soft hehehe.
-Ray

 

[PrettyDecent]

That's an interesting share, Smith!

I haven't read the entire article...but from what I have read, parts of it are true, some I'd take with a grain of salt.

I agree that many of the people in seduction are 'weird', but I think they were already quirky beforehand. It's not like many of these men were 'normal' and well-adjusted before entering the community, and then PUA corrupted them. You get this problem where it looks like these guys are well-adjusted before entering the community. But these men tend to be 'unknown' (low effort/low results) and shift in to 'joker' (high effort/low results) due to the amount of field testing they need to make a real change. They're attempting a wide variety of new social techniques to test what works and what doesn't - and there's a whole lotta 'does not'.

There are also people who avoid the quirky PUA stereotype: socially switched on dudes who enter the community because they just need help with the 'women' part of their lives (rather than people in general).

In addition, a fair few of the points on the author's list applies to any community surrounding a skill; music is an example. Metallica is heralded as a guru band in their field, for instance. Guitarists will practice their music for years on end, with not much other focus if they're very serious...and they judge musicians based on their level of ability. Metalheads believe they listen to a superior music than all others. Why not heavily criticize them as well? Why not also criticize the Hip Hop group with their idols Tupac and Biggie?

So to be fair, there are lots of different schools of thought out there regarding Pickup - GC is probably one of the better ones in terms of actually leading people toward 'normalcy'. I'm sure there are some that go 180°. But would 'normal' people really enter those schools of thought? Probably not, eh?

~Nick

 

[Chase]

What you saw a lot with the first generation pickup companies like Mystery Method and RSD was a lot of this cultishness and cliquishness, in many ways analogous to what I've noticed in computer programmer / 'nerd' communities, and that was where most of the guys involved in pickup early on came from me. Many of the early guys were Dungeons & Dragons, computer programmer types who were fed up at sucking with women and decided to take the technical systems-approach they'd learned building characters and writing code and apply it to doing better with women.

Both gamers and programmers I've noticed tend to have a strong 'holier than thou' attitude more often than not; partly that comes from developing a skill to a high degree (whether that's the ability to kick butt at online gaming or write code that works miracles) that is like Greek to most other people; knowing you can do what others can't even fathom tends to give you a sense of superiority most people get sucked into, especially if they never formerly had much power or status in their lives. This got carried over into the early community.

There was a big reactionary movement to this among more normal guys who stumbled into pickup once it started gaining speed and going mainstream; these guys didn't like the cliquishness of PUA culture and started going around saying they were NOT 'PUAs', or otherwise identified themselves in opposition to the PUA; "I teach guys to do [X thing PUAs do] because it works, but not [Y thing PUAs do] because that's just dumb."

So then you ended up with these two cliquish groups, the PUAs and the I'm-not-a-PUA-but-I-still-use-some-of-their-stuff'ers. Both were kind of annoying in their own ways.

Third wave pickup (I guess you'd call it) has been a lot more 'normal' and pays its respects to the pickup community without getting into the cultish/cliquish mindset so much and avoiding all but the most useful jargon. We're in that group - not quite so insular, nor so cliquish.

There's still a distinct flavor here - plenty of guys come here and don't like it; the articles are too long or too boring or the stuff is too basic or the stuff is too detailed or they want some deep NLP patterns and are disappointed they didn't find any here - but I've tried to keep as many of my own opinions and preferences out of the material as possible, and asked other writers to do the same, to avoid having it become more closed and cultish. You'll never get away from that completely, but so long as you're keeping a lid on rants and opinions, you can manage to keep it from getting too totally out of hand.

Chase