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What have been your biggest sticking points?

Vision

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
324
Hey there seducers...

I'm doing some new work in collaborations with a few other people and we could use your help (I also think this could be a valuable thread in this community).

What have been some of your biggest sticking points?

I'd love to hear...
- Where have you been stuck in the past and how did you get over it?
- What are your biggest challenges right now?
- If you could wave a magic wand and make one thing easier, what would it be?

I appreciate your contribution!

- V
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Messages
892
Hey V,

- starting to cold approach at all. Had to start traveling out a bit for enough population. Finally seeing opportunities around should hopefully kick things off

- approach anxiety. I am removed from mindfulness of the present, too mindful about the end goal logistics instead of enjoying the moment when opening is what needs practice

- communicating sexual intent, verbally for fast pulls 100% implicit... Ideally on a doctor in her office... Being able to escalate in high risk situations, knowing it will be well received. Maybe micro escalations, but ideally subtext communication 0 to 100 in 60 seconds.
 

TwoNameGame

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Aug 12, 2024
Messages
181
  1. Sticking point: Escalation. I started my journey with Simple Pickup, so I had no concept of escalation. It wasn't until I joined this forum that I learned to escalate. That led me to overgaming and moving too fast. Now, I kinda get it but only for cold approaches. I learned to not force it and fall back on fundamentals if time is a constraint. Now, I take time for number closes and insta-dates. I hope I don't screw it up too often on dates.
  2. Current challenge: Texting. I ruined my first number lead by being too pushy and listening to the wrong guides. My second one is seemingly going well, but I am unsure how to balance texting enough on a topic that fascinates us both. I simply lack experience to form positive habits without constantly worrying about each more. That said, Chase's book and Skills's posts have helped.
  3. Make easier: Street game. I have seen plenty of 10's walking around my university who are too busy to stop, and I don't have enough time to establish rapport. Thus, I failed to number close before they reached their next class or the parking lot to get to work. The crunch also makes fundamentals like talking slow or eye contact almost unfeasible. I wish I could have a few minutes to at least qualify her twice and seed a date.
 

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 31, 2023
Messages
417
Past sticking point: I’ll go with cold approaching, because it was the one thing I knew about the longest without taking action. In fact the first time I tried to go out in the street with the intention to approach women I almost had a panic attack. Tried for few more days, but I was just ending up sitting at a bench by myself feeling absolutely defeated for being unable to open. After that the way I overcame it was a mix of socialising and making friends, together with progressive desensitisation when approaching. I started slowly, by just asking for a supermarket or a train station, then went into complimenting pieces of clothing, and eventually I reached a point where I just felt more pain due to losing opportunities with girls that seemed receptive, compared to getting rejected by non interested ones, so I started showing my intentions more openly. It also helped that I did my first serious sessions of approaching while on trips abroad where I knew I had no connections and was in vacation mode.

Biggest challenge now: Getting to sleep with the girls that are into me. Of course I have some other challenges as well, like not being able to attract the girls I would mostly like to, but I feel my biggest issue is by far not having sex even with the girls I can attract. Some of them may kiss, some of them may come to my place, some of them may just start talking about how the don’t sleep with guys quickly, and all of them I can feel that are attracted to me, but eventually a huge majority will not have sex. If I could at least be sleeping consistently with these girls, it would firstly give me more abundance and make me less needy, and secondly I could extrapolate what I did and with some adjustments get even hotter ones. Now it affects my motivation to even approach, because I expect most of the good interactions to not lead anywhere.

One thing I would make easier: Being seen as a sexy guy. Basically having girls attracted to me due to my genes and feeling sexual excitement in my presence. I always wanted this man to woman sexual value to be the one that I first and foremost offer and girls choose me for. I believe it would also help with my issue of girls not having sex, because they would be primally aroused, and more open to my escalation.
 

Toby2030

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
324
Here's a peak into some of my major breakthroughs in my journey.

Sexuality and setting the right frame
In the beginning, one of my key sticking points was establishing the right frame for sexual tension. I improved by focusing on eye contact, escalating touch, proximity, and the strategic use of silence to build tension. Early on, I made sure to set the frame by subtly indicating that the interaction was more than just friendly, avoiding the "friend zone." Techniques like push-pull and disqualification helped me keep the dynamic playful and flirtatious.

Consistency in opening
I struggled with inconsistent openings—my success seemed to depend heavily on my energy and momentum. To address this, I adopted an opening framework, specifically Todd’s FAME model: capturing her focus, maintaining an arrogant yet playful frame, holding that frame, and escalating. While this brought some initial success, I later integrated concepts from the GW system and Mystery Method, putting greater emphasis on technical aspects like attention hooks, pacing, assumptions, open loops, lock-ins and moving her. It was all about having a fixed model of steps which increased my results.

Storytelling and managing groups
Another challenge was storytelling and handling larger groups, where I wasn’t as confident. I learned the basics of storytelling, and how to create a compelling buildup and keep the group engaged, largely through articles from Girlschase. I began applying techniques like pacing and assumptions not just with the individual people i spoke to, but with the group as a whole, and learned how to use each assumption about each individual member in the group to hook in the rest.

Overcoming last-minute resistance
After I became comfortable with getting women back to my place, I encountered last-minute resistance. I realized I needed to break down barriers earlier, ensuring she felt safe, allowed to express her sexuality, and turned on long before the point of going home. This shift in approach was crucial to resolving this sticking point.

Worked on sex talk
I also delved into Alek's framework on sex talk and 2nd generation verbal skills, which was a game-changer. I started with his canned routines but eventually understood why they worked and adapted them into my own style. Over time, I became more natural at this since I knew what worked and knew what I had to get her through for the right effect.

Improving the general sexual experience and upping retention
Once sex itself was no longer an issue, my challenge became seeing the same girls again. To address this, I focused on improving my skills in the bedroom. Implementing the DEVI concepts, dominance, emotion, variance, and immersion which made a huge difference. I realized that being more dominant was something women responded to positively, and I learned that sex is more about mental stimulation than physical actions. Like in seduction, the key is making her chase and beg for you.

'Invisible' escalation
I then worked on refining my escalation game, making it more seamless and natural. I had the problems getting the exact girls I wanted so I tried to see how I could make my displays of intent more subtle. My goal was to create the impression that the woman was escalating on me, not the other way around. This involved techniques like placing her hands on me, teasing her for escalating, and using sexual tension as a tool to qualify her.

Controlling conversations
I had problems getting into the sexual topics naturally, and this is where I got introduced to Riker. I focused on steering conversations in the direction I wanted, learning strategic topic control through Riker’s conversational management system. At first, it felt awkward, but with practice, I learned how to guide interactions towards fun and engaging topics, then gradually transition to more emotional, romantic, and seductive ones. This also gave me a natural way of fractunating between topics.

While there are many other things I’ve worked on along the way, these represent the most significant breakthroughs in my journey. What I figured out on the way is that it all comes down to a very few things:
- Pacing and understanding her world completely
- Emotionally stimulating her and actually being fun and engaging to be around.
- Breaking down her limiting beliefs, barriers towards sex and taboos. Making it natural to talk openly about sex
- Being able to turn her on sexually through sexual tension, and 'selling' yourself as someone who knows how to fuck.
- Actually delivering in the bedroom

But even though it's these few things, they take ages to learn and master. And I still have a long way to go before I have truly mastered them.

My focus right now
I have never really been a relationship guy, so this is something I'm trying to learn and gasp. I have been with the same girl now for the longest period I ever have been in a relationship. Learning how to manage and control is something that really is a different game but also keeping the sexual aspect in the relationship. So I work on ways to control the relationship, keep pushing our sexual boundaries and trying out a lot of different stuff. Mainly with help from Witch60.
 
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Marty

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
1,539
Hello @Vision,

Unfortunately, I haven’t gotten over it, so I can’t answer your question #1, but for #3:
If you could wave a magic wand and make one thing easier, what would it be?
…the most difficult issue for me is communication with women. I’m talking about the initial interaction or the first few encounters; not dates, where I’m generally fine and get along well with women, nor within relationships, which I manage pretty well.

When first meeting girls or during casual, unstructured interactions, what is the best thing to talk about? Or should I indeed say anything at all?

-Marty
 

OldGuy

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
200
Biggest sticking point was first time asking for a date. Took an hour to finish calling, but she politely declined, but was happier to see me in passing afterward.
Current: Opportunity
Wish this site had been there when I was starting out, but 3 issues:
1. My Big 10 school was not on ARPANET (Internet predessor)
2. The World Wide Web did not exist
3. Chase had not been born.
 

Kingkong

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jan 27, 2025
Messages
124
My biggest challenge is converting a number into a date or a hookup.
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

Kingkong

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jan 27, 2025
Messages
124
Controlling conversations
I had problems getting into the sexual topics naturally, and this is where I got introduced to Riker. I focused on steering conversations in the direction I wanted, learning strategic topic control through Riker’s conversational management system. At first, it felt awkward, but with practice, I learned how to guide interactions towards fun and engaging topics, then gradually transition to more emotional, romantic, and seductive ones. This also gave me a natural way of fractunating between topics.
How long did it take you to complete Riker’s course, and how long until the issue was resolved?
 

Toby2030

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
324
How long did it take you to complete Riker’s course, and how long until the issue was resolved?
There's a lot of layers to Riker's course. There's still so many things for me to implement from it. However, you'll learn the basics of it very quickly by doing daily action. It did not take me that long for me to see improvements and get my sticking point resolved. I believe it took 1-2 months before I had a major breakthrough.
 

empath

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 16, 2024
Messages
563
Getting enough volume of girls to approach.

They are mainly in large groups.

Dont find looks wise kind of girls I want to approach enough in a practically apporachable situation.
 

Kingkong

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jan 27, 2025
Messages
124
Hey there seducers...

I'm doing some new work in collaborations with a few other people and we could use your help (I also think this could be a valuable thread in this community).

What have been some of your biggest sticking points?

I'd love to hear...
- Where have you been stuck in the past and how did you get over it?
- What are your biggest challenges right now?
- If you could wave a magic wand and make one thing easier, what would it be?

I appreciate your contribution!

- V
Staying in my comfort zone and not approaching has been a big challenge for me. Sometimes it’s because of past rejections, and other times, even when I get a number, it doesn’t go anywhereI’ve had at least 50 numbers over the past year that lead nowhere. This made me realize that I need to improve my texting, but more importantly, I need to develop an abundance mindset. Women can sense when you’re too eager or needy, and that energy can push them away. I also realized that I need to get out of my comfort zone and approach more, no matter the outcome.


The problem is my consistency, I’ll have days where I’m on fire, doing five or more approaches, but then I won’t approach at all for two weeks. That’s something I really need to fix. How do you handle rejection and keep yourself in the right mindset?
 

Bismarck

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
832
I became cognizant of the game around 2008 when I read Style's bestseller. I joined mASF in 2009 or so.

From then till now, my sticking points have varied.

Right now though I'd say my main sticking point is post-lay retention (within this topic, texting is something that I'm getting better at but have still not mastered).
 
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