Why did she flake?

[Mr.Rob]

Hey gents, I hope you're all slaying it in life and with the ladies.

I just want to get your guys feedback as to if I'm reading the reason for this flake correctly or if its just random.

I had a date planned I was excited for tonight with a cooler gal than I've been meeting lately but she flaked last minute after having good relations prior.

There is one minor point I believe may have caused this that I would like to get your thoughts on.

Brief Backstory

I met this girl two days ago on campus, we flirted it up for a minute, I then led her to her destination by taking her hand and dominantly leading her and joking about our marriage. We agree to go on date today (2 days later) in the evening.

I send icebreaker and get no response.

I call her yesterday (1 day later), she answers, we set up a date/time on the phone and everything went seemingly well.
Possible mistake I made on the phone was I decided we were no longer going to get food together and instead get coffee. She agreed and offered up that we grab coffee at a local gas station chain that was having free coffee today. I thought that was a bad idea and sort of bluntly told her that we aren't getting coffee at a gas station (I scolded her good behavior of her trying to move things forward and offer a good suggestion) and that we will go to Starbucks instead.

The rest of the conversation went decent and she agreed she was excited for the date before we hung up.

Afterward I send a text with logistical info.

No response.

Day of the Date

I send text inquiring as to if we are still on for tonight.

No response.

I call. No answer.

Do you I'm reading this right that my errata on the phone pushing away her good behavior is the factor in her flaking when she seemed excited?

Or do you think its merely a random flake?

I'd love to hear your thoughts and similar experiences regarding this.

 

[ray_zorse]

Hi Rob, yes things are fine, not sure if I am exactly slaying it but having a minor flirtation in social circle which keeps me sharp at any rate. I will tell you about that in a minute b/c it touches on your situation.

I think your analysis is pretty good except that you glossed over one important point which is that she didn't respond to the ice breaker, I never proceed in that situation because I believe it is pointless, YMMV but for me it's a first level screening for interest, I deliberately phrase the ice breaker so as not to invite a response, then I see if she bites. If she doesn't then I know she's on the fence at best and I will be firmly in chasing/boyfriend territory by the time I have invested enough to get her out on a date, if that is even possible!

At the same time if you were excited about her then clearly the voice call was the best possible move you could have made in that situation, just bear in mind Chase's advice to try to rekindle some of the good feelings over the phone before asking her out again. Since we generally rely on text these days I believe phone game might be a bit of a lost art, but it's always good to get a little practice in.

About the coffee I believe there is no real good move you could have made here, weirdly enough I was in exactly the same position sometime last year, we'd tentatively discussed a coffee date and she excitedly texted me one morning "I have a really wonderful news! The Xxx store [near my building at uni] will be giving away free coffee at midday to 2pm today!!" ... it was not too convenient for me that day, but to reward her investment I said I would swing by the campus later and take a look. Well I did and the line stretched around the block and so I texted her nogo. I eventually got her out on a brief mini date for coffee between classes but nothing after that. Certainly not the kind of excitement she had had earlier and I think this incident hurt me somewhat, through no real fault of my own. Anyway overall you made the right move though you could have been more gentle and explained yourself better. I recommend to check "The Millionaire Fastlane" and what he says about free offers -- basically YOUR TIME is your most valuable resource!

Now as to the last part of your phone call I don't think it was good to ask/say/agree you were excited about the date, on one of my FRs (a second or third date where he had earlier
recommended me to use phone game as I described above) Chase described this as a +attainability -value move and he's right. That girl cut off relations soon after as well. Be cool.

My final comment is on the matter of holding leverage. Just this week I was in a similar situation with my social circle girl where we enthusiastically set up a date yet she did not reply to my second logistical text (admittedly I was playing games with her by introducing a 5hr delay, but that was because I wanted to appear like I was busy at work)... my feeling gradually changed from excitement to puzzlement to annoyance and disappointment and I had to decide on an appropriate damage control measure that would punish her non compliance, would engender respect for my time by firmly telling her she can't hold leverage, and would not be chasey or give attention to the issue (which is what your response did) and yet would be friendly and leave it open to rescheduling. This is what I did.

Me (5:06pm Monday): (my logistical text)
Me (9.16am Wednesday): hi hon, i wasnt sure if we had a date for tmr but in fact i'm a bit busy and i wont be able to make it. see you later in the wk
Her (10.12am) Morning, I believe we haven't confirmed any hangout yet. Enjoy the week. Cheers

I recommend a similar approach for you in future, although it was pretty much dead in the water at that stage so I suppose it didn't matter, but you must admit your response was chasey.

Ray

 

[ProblemSolving]

Do you I'm reading this right that my errata on the phone pushing away her good behavior is the factor in her flaking when she seemed excited?

Naw, everything about this chick indicates low interest.

First, like Ray said, ignoring the ice breaker is never a good sign. Although, I've managed to smash a chick that ignored my ice breaker, it is a VERY rare occurrence.

Second,

She agreed and offered up that we grab coffee at a local gas station chain that was having free coffee today.

This is actually a bad sign. She's trying to make the date more convenient for HER. It's almost like saying, "Hey, I was going to get free coffee at this gas station, you should tag along." Agreeing to this meet up would be a waste of your time, so props for not falling for it. It just demonstrates that she's not very invested.

Since hanging out with you was no longer convenient for her, she flakes.

When you're figuring out logistics of a date and the girl wants to negotiate the location, you kind of have to use your best judgment for what is "fair" for both parties.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Hey Ray good to hear from you man!

she didn't respond to the ice breaker, I never proceed in that situation because I believe it is pointless, YMMV but for me it's a first level screening for interest, I deliberately phrase the ice breaker so as not to invite a response, then I see if she bites. If she doesn't then I know she's on the fence at best and I will be firmly in chasing/boyfriend territory by the time I have invested enough to get her out on a date, if that is even possible!

I like your style here. I do agree that if no ice breaker is responded to then it's probably a no go but figured it'd be worth a shot regardless to call and see if possibly she wasn't testing to see if I'd reach out again, so I did.

Also considering that she answered my phone call was a sign she wasn't totally disinterested.

you could have been more gentle and explained yourself better.

Agreed.

I recommend to check "The Millionaire Fastlane" and what he says about free offers -- basically YOUR TIME is your most valuable resource!

Thanks for the book reccomendation!

you must admit your response was chasey.

Which response? Being on the phone or the "are we still on for today?" quote?

This is what I did.
Me (5:06pm Monday): (my logistical text)
Me (9.16am Wednesday): hi hon, i wasnt sure if we had a date for tmr but in fact i'm a bit busy and i wont be able to make it. see you later in the wk
Her (10.12am) Morning, I believe we haven't confirmed any hangout yet. Enjoy the week. Cheers

This is interesting. I like this.

Ray you mentioned at the beginning of your reply that

I deliberately phrase the ice breaker so as not to invite a response,

, can you give me an example of what you use?

Thanks for the response brotha!

@ProblemSolving- Thanks for weighing in on this man I appreciate it.

This is actually a bad sign. She's trying to make the date more convenient for HER. It's almost like saying, "Hey, I was going to get free coffee at this gas station, you should tag along." Agreeing to this meet up would be a waste of your time, so props for not falling for it. It just demonstrates that she's not very invested.

I see where you're coming from here ProblemSolving being that when she attempts to lead she is doing so out of non interest. However do you think in some cases (not saying this one) that it is really her investing by offering a good solution and trying to help? For example I've met women before walking down the street somewhere that invite me to come with them, or I invite myself to walk with them and they agree, (because they like me but are genuinely in a hurry) and have this work out quite well.

Not the exact situation but you can see the link of similarity here.

Nonetheless thanks for bringing up the lagging of interest possibility I didn't see that as being as big a factor as it might have been.

Thanks for weighing in!

-Rob

 

[Estate]

Hey man,
If you met her on cold approach and haven't been out with her yet.... don't beat yourself up too much. It could be one of a million things going on with her that meant she wasn't seriously invested. Like college work, friends, some guy she likes in class. All out of your control, so don't worry, off a cold approach, it happens, you do well girl is flattered and impressed you were so bold but for whatever reason later you weren't the first thing on her mind.

If I could critique anything on what you said... I'd say go with the flow when setting up dates. Now and again I encounter a girl who needs 100 texts to confirm a time and place. Like, oh what place do you like, ok, no I don't like that place, suggest another... ok, can we meet at 7, no wait make it 8, actually can we do a lunch date.... by that point I'm weary and my patients are running out.

If she's cool with coffee from a gas station, just say cool, youll get a coffee and can take it anywhere. Easy and cheap date!
I wouldn't advise suggesting to meet someone at a gas station usually, haha... but some girls love the "free X day #coffee #freecoffee #whatever" days. It's more that it's fun because it's free and fun. Personally I hate "ice cream dates" but a local chain does a free ice cream day every few months and all my social media is full with the pics and posts from girls. It's kinda dumb but if it's some local hinge or a novelty, they like it, it's an easy plan for a date, just go with it... too much back and forth texting to make plans makes people go "ugh..."

I know guys talk a lot of crap about "hold yor frame, be dominant, tease her, lead". Which is all fine, but if a girl wants ice cream or coffee and you give a flat out No, or try to "hold frame" and be in charge, sometimes it comes off dickish. Not meaning you meant to be, but some people may feel that way.

 

[ProblemSolving]

However do you think in some cases (not saying this one) that it is really her investing by offering a good solution and trying to help?

Absolutely! But it's pretty easy to figure out which one is high interest and which one is low interest - the high interest ones don't ignore your texts when you bring up an alternative!

I mean, it's possible that you MIGHT have been a bit of dick by shooting down her idea that ultimately turned her off, but more than likely she was just not heavily invested in the first place.

The only time you KNOW a girl is serious is when she shows up. Her excitement, the words she said etc, don't mean anything.