Why hard sell taking women home but not when asking for first date?

[The Byronic Man]

Can someone please explain why we hard sell when persuading women to go home with you but we don't when persuading women to go on a first date? My only guess is that women need to feel comfortable meeting you for a first date, whereas women have already met you before you ask them go home with you, but they are mistaken into thinking it's not what they want.

 

[Richard]

Never really thought about this until you posted this, so, excellent question.

This answer has a lot of variables, and will differ depending on your game, and your intentions. Anyway, if you're a man who is looking to bed women, then you have to "hard sell" as you put it because a woman's sexual attraction for you will only last for so long, so you have to make your move before her attraction expires. This "expiration" is almost strictly for bedding women though, a first date is a lot different because it is something that keeps that attraction going, so not so much emphasis needs to be placed on a first date.

Also, when you first meet a woman, and you are able to turn her on, when you get her wanting to sleep with you, you have to do it ASAP otherwise like I stated above, she'll lose interest. This is also why I said it varies depending on your game and your intentions. If you meet women to find a LTR (like myself) you don't place a lot of emphasis on taking a woman home, at least not until after the date, then you rock her world!

Hope this shed some light for ya,

Richard

 

[The Byronic Man]

Thanks, Richard.

To make sure I understand you, you're saying that if you want an LTR, you don't hard sell until towards the end of the first date (I imagine this being around 1.5-2 hours into the date)? That is my understanding...but again, if she is giving out signs that she is ready (maybe we should have a discussion on that those signs are exactly), then we can pull much sooner than 1.5-2 hours.

 

[Richard]

Well me personally, I don't put a time constraint on a date, and I'm not entirely sure how to answer this question. A couple problems you pose are :

• 
  *Bedding the woman
  *Pushing for sex on the date
  *And establishing the date itself.

The better with women you get, the less you have to worry about these problems.

If you've ever seen my FRs you'd see that I don't have these problems anymore. I lead the conversation in a way that portrays me either as sexy, or a lover, and the women are attracted to me either as a sexy man or a lover, and thus, I am able to easily establish dates or lays because of it.

From the initial conversation, if a woman responds well to your sexual or chase frames, gives IOIs, and opens up her body language, you can move fast with her, and bed her quickly. I've made out with one girl 45 minutes after meeting her, and have bedded women the day or the next day after I met them. I don't typically look to do things like that, but, it does happen.

But, on the date itself, don't constrain yourself to a schedule, go with the flow of it, lead things, and establish an expectation of sex that night during the date (get her thinking throughout the date about sex with you, and she should respond well), and if she does respond well, you can bed her after that date.

It's a little hard to properly explain because like I said, there are a lot of factors, and a time constraint isn't universal.

If you have any questions or responses, feel free to post,

Richard

 

[The Byronic Man]

Richard, thank you. That's very helpful.

Let's say you don't feel you could pull her on the first date. Do you just kiss her on the cheek and then try to set up a second date? Or do you pull regardless, even if she's not ready?

I know I should not kiss (on the mouth) until I'm in a sex location (e.g. home, her home), but do you ramp up kino before the pull? I've been on dates where I'm sitting across from her so I figured out I need to start sitting on the same side of the table when possible because it makes kino much easier.

 

[Richard]

See, this is where another set of variables comes into play, and the way I've come to halt the problem of not knowing whether you can pull her on the first date has a few parts to it, both before and during the date, but time to explain...

Before I establish the date, in the initial approach and pull, I've got her thinking about sex with me, girls respond well to my sexual frames, so, I know before the date takes place that I can bed them on the first date. That is what you'll want to do, gauge her level of sexual interest early on.

If, you still are unsure about whether you can bed her on the first date, you can ramp up the kino, I generally look for every excuse or opportunity to physically touch one another, and, play around with the kino. If she sits next to you, work your hand up to her inner thigh, if she doesn't resist, or if she smiles, you can pull her that night. BTW, inner thigh isn't the only kino test, but for me, its a sure fire gauge...

If, after all that, you think you still can't pull her that night (and she was willing to go home with you), then she'll start to reject further plans unless you make them quickly, or she'll put you in the boyfriend or lover category, and will slow down sleeping with you. General rule of thumb is if you don't bed her on date 1, you'll have to on date 2 (if you're only looking for sex, not a relationship), or you'll lose almost all opportunities to bed her.

However, if you are looking for a relationship with her, you can take your time bedding her, you can bed her fast, or slow, your choice. Generally, when I think a girl is girlfriend material, I'll bed her on date 3 or 4.

But, in all honesty, kino for me isn't even that necessary to pull, it helps a lot, but I can pull without it. I use a lot of sexually suggestive frames in a teasing way, and girls jump all over it, that's my favorite gauge of interest because I naturally tease anyway.

But overall, if you don't feel you can pull her that night, you might still want to try while the momentum is good. Try sexual frames on the date, and try nonchalantly mentioning plans after the date to see where her head is. Still try to pull her though, and if you don't, kiss or hug her that night, and text later to keep the momentum rolling...

-Hope this helped,

Richard

 

[The Byronic Man]

Great stuff, Richard. I'll try to implement as much of this in my next date on Monday. I'll definitely need to work on the sexual frames. I have no problem with kino though lol, but it's difficult to pull off sometimes when at a table.

That's interesting that you're fine with bedding her on date 3 or 4 if she is GF material. I thought this community here argues that the longer you take to bed her (so past date 1 or 2), the harder it will be to make her your GF?

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EDIT: What repercussions are there to try to pull/hard sell when she is absolutely not ready? I did that in my last date just to see what would happen, and I shrugged it off and didn't let it faze me and continued to tease and have fun with her for another 10 minutes before I let her drive off. She said she'd like to check out my place next time, but I didn't call her again to see if that was actually true (I only liked her enough to get some experience under my belt). I didn't text her the day after our date, and she's on vacation for week. Douchebag move to ask her out again when she's back (just want to see what happens as an experiment)?

 

[Richard]

Well typically, even when a girl is GF material, its advisable to bed her as soon as you can. However, from my frequent talks with the Elders and the Mod, to get her chasing you as a boyfriend, you do everything you would do normally just sllw things down.

What happens is, date 1 goes by, no sex, date 2 goes by no sex, at this point she starts to think that you are interested in more than sex. She feels like since you haven't bedded her already, you're either scared to, or there's a reason why you haven't, and the reason is, you're girlfriending her. You're subtly implying that you want a relationship, but she'll be the one chasing you as a boyfriend.

Now, when a girl is absolutely not ready, you've gauged her and she seems resistant to being pulled, then don't force it. You can persist, but if she remains firmly resistant, don't press the issue. Instead, end the night on a good note, drop her off st home on a high note, text her the next day and talk about how you enjoyed the night, things like that.

Then, on date 2, press the issue a bit more, and explain your feelings behind it. Typically I do something along the lines of:
Me: "Do you like me?
Her: "Yeah."
Me: "I like you too. That's why we should do something now, and make the most out of what we feel while the feelings are here. The future is a mystery, but now, we have the chance to enjoy each other, I don't want to regret not making the most of this, I don't want you to either."

Even shaky girls will generally go along with it, and I don't use this as a lie, I mean what I say, and girls know its true.

-Richard

 

[The Byronic Man]

That's fantastic, Richard.

So to put this into context...you're on date 2, you go for the pull, hard sell a bit, then drop those "do you like me" lines.

 

[Richard]

Yup, only drop the lines if you're still not sure if she can be pulled, or if she's being a little resistant to being pulled.

 

[The Byronic Man]

Okay, another question: Let's say she is GF material, and you have no problem delaying sex until date 3 or 4. Do you also delay the kiss until she's ready for sex? If you do kiss before date 3 or 4, do you make it a full-on make-out but withhold sex...or do you make it a light, romantic kiss?

 

[trashKENNUT]

but we don't when persuading women to go on a first date?

BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MANY GUYS TO START WITH, YOU WANT TO BE DIFFERENT.


YOU DON'T WANT TO SUPPLICATE LIKE THEM

Zac

 

[Richard]

^^^ ZAC

When a girl is girlfriend material like I said, do everything you would normally, but tweak it ever so slightly, and move things a little slower. Me personally, I still like to kiss and make out fast because I enjoy kissing, and if she does too, and I'm going to try girlfriending her anyway, then why not do it when you can?

 

[The Byronic Man]

Quite a few of the articles on GC say that once you make out, but don't take it all way to sex, she resents you for not escalating?

 

[Richard]

Depends on the expectations you build initially. Plus, most of the time, if the girl is willing to make out with you, then she's open to escalation anyway, so that's not really a realistic issue for the most part.

 

[The Byronic Man]

Depends on the expectations you build initially.

Could you please elaborate? I imagine that expectations of date 1 sex would not be verbalized explicitly, so how would you do this implicitly?

Plus, most of the time, if the girl is willing to make out with you, then she's open to escalation anyway, so that's not really a realistic issue for the most part.

Yeah, this is why I'm a bit confused. So you would actually make out then deliberately hold back (I'm assuming as a tease if you're dominant enough and she knows you're in control)? I would think that once you're making out, you can go all the way (given you can also overcome LMR). The only situation I can think of is if you find yourself making out and the environment is not good for sex.

 

[Richard]

Nope, I wouldn't deliberately hold back once initiating a make out, but, I was speaking under the assumption of the whole "not sure if you could pull her," guise...

Now, the expectations you build initially are built specifically through your first opening. You can be a dominant man, a sexy man, the clown, an asshole, the nice guy, and so on and so forth...

Most of the time, I portray myself as a lover, boyfriend, and long term partner, and girls like that, so, when I establish a date, they don't expect sex sometimes...

On the flip side, there are times I'm a sexy man who is looking to help a woman live her sexual fantasies, so, when I offer a date, they expect sex...

That's what I mean by expectations, essentially, you following suit with the persona your portray establishes expectations from the woman.

As a side note, every environment is good for sex unless there are people around, or the area has a potential for traffic (people traffic I mean)

 

[The Byronic Man]

Right on. So basically, how you set and maintain the frame from the moment you first look at her.

Thanks again for your help...really appreciate it, Richard!

 

[The Byronic Man]

When you extend sex to date 3 or 4, how do you ensure the attraction window doesn't expire? Seems like a risky gamble, however confident you are that she likes you.

 

[Richard]

In my opinion, the "attraction" that is so often mentioned can be roughly defined as "the amount of time in which a woman is willing to sleep with you..."

Basically, we mean sexual attraction, not relational attraction.

This is another reason why its okay to wait til date 3 or 4, because:
-if she is continuing to date you, she's already wanting more than just sex with you
-you're not disappointing an expectation

Also, attraction only truly expires when you don't make a move, establishing a date or two is still moving forward so the girl has reason to stay attracted to you unless of course, you've lead her to believe in quick sex, or rather "built her up to expect sex on date 1 or 2"

In essence, its all about what type if man you come off as

-Richard