Will I ever be able to "relax" with a woman?

[SomaRuiz]

I've managed to get girls chasing, like trying to re-engage me when I give some indication I'm about to leave or walk away, or ask me things. But often after this I seem to think something like "Okay, she's chasing, now I can relax..." then a bit after that I do something like showing her a picture in my phone related to something we were talking about, or sing something from a song I know that's also on topic... Then after that she goes cold or starts to cool down.

I guess it wasn't the time for those things at that moment, so I shouldn't have "relaxed" then... Or "chasing her back". But if that's the case, is there any moment when I'll be able to relax? I mean from what I've read after these instances, it seems like I will always have to be on edge with girls, even after sex or when in a relationship it looks like it, from what I've read.

I know that's like asking "Will I ever have to stop working out?" if you exercise, or "Will I ever be able to quit my job and just take it easy?", but isn't seduction and relationships supposed to be fun and/or pleasing?

Now, I'm not going to quit or anything. I never give up on stuff I thik is worthwhile, but I have to admit it's not very encouraging the way things are. lol

PS. Is there such a thing as "chasing back" after she starts chasing? And can it be fixed?

 

[Franco]

SomaRuiz,

I know that's like asking "Will I ever have to stop working out?" if you exercise, or "Will I ever be able to quit my job and just take it easy?", but isn't seduction and relationships supposed to be fun and/or pleasing?

Well, using the examples you gave, then it depends. How much do you enjoy working out? And how much do you enjoy working? How much do you enjoy sex and the company of women?

To become good at anything in life, you have to put work behind it, and this includes managing relationships and managing the emotions of women. You can choose not to put any work into it, but you won't see any positive results from it either.

There's a lot of work that goes into learning about women and how to take them into relationships and make them see you as the man of their dreams, but if you put enough work into it, understand it well, and execute it well, then it becomes more along the lines of 10% "work" and 90% "enjoyment." But I had to work hard to get it to those levels.

When you start out, it's probably somewhere around 95% work and 5% enjoyment. So yes, there is a very long period of time where "relaxing" isn't really a variable that you get to use too often, unless you want to remain stagnant and keep the numbers at that level. But just like working out, you don't really see the "gains" until you've been working hard consistently for a number of months, and that's when you get to start enjoying the muscle that you've put on.

You should never be able to find yourself 100% relaxed about anything though -- the only thing that is constant is change, and if you're too relaxed to recognize that you need to adapt to change, then you'll fall behind those that do recognize it. =)

- Franco

 

[SomaRuiz]

Thanks, Franco. I didn't think of it in that percentage ratio you gave, so that gives some perspective.

I work out myself (boxing) and I've been doing it for almost a year now (lifted weights 5 years prior to that), I can see the changes; so I'm aware that there is work involved.

A difference I see between the two things, though, is that in the gym (or any class for that matter) you have the instructor / teacher telling you what to do. Even as an employee you're told what to do (unless you have a creative / advisory job). While with women there's so much guesswork, you know, like taking an exam you didn't study for, or couldn't study for because you didn't know what was going to be in it, since girls can be unpredictable. There are so many variables, and how are you suppossed to cram them all before the "exam"? lol

Sorry if it sounds like I'm venting. I just feel a little discouraged, even if I'm willing to keep on going.

Also, any advice on the examples I mentioned above where she went cold after I "relaxed"? Was I investing too much? Or over-escalating maybe? I think I got too excited that she was chasing that I lost my cool demeanor, and started "chasing back".

 

[Smith]

SomaRuiz,

I wasn't relaxed when I went on dates during the first few months, and it made these dates quite unenjoyable. In the grand scheme of things, you don't want to "relax" and stay in your comfort zone, but on a date, you want to be as relax and chill as possible.

sing, like trying to re-engage me when I give some indication I'm about to leave or walk away, or ask me things. But often after this I seem to think something like "Okay, she's chasing, now I can relax..." then a bit after that I do something like showing her a picture in my phone related to something we were talking about, or sing something from a song I know that's also on topic... Then after that she goes cold or starts to cool down.

alright, here you went from relax and chill to probably a little try hard and got too excited. Remember to calibrate next time to where the girl's interest level at.

A difference I see between the two things, though, is that in the gym (or any class for that matter) you have the instructor / teacher telling you what to do. Even as an employee you're told what to do (unless you have a creative / advisory job). While with women there's so much guesswork, you know, like taking an exam you didn't study for, or couldn't study for because you didn't know what was going to be in it, since girls can be unpredictable. There are so many variables, and how are you suppossed to cram them all before the "exam"? lol

Embrace the unpredictability, and have fun. It's not an exam. It's not win or lose. It's always win-win. Whatever your goal is in seduction, you need to let it go and be open to new experiences, i.e. don't rush to the destination, take a detour, who cares? The reason you can't relax might be because you're constantly thinking about the next step, but you forgot to enjoy what's in the present moment. Just let seduction happen. You're seducing each other, so you must give her space to seduce you and not steamroll your energy over her.

Another reason you can't relax might be because you're playing this bad boy character, and the moment you start to relax and "be yourself", it becomes incongruent and the girl will sense something's a little off. The best way to get over this is to stop playing Jame Bond. Stop attaching your identity to be the "bad boy" or the "nice guy". Either one don't really help you in the long run. Instead just be "you" and adopt masculine traits that fit your personality. David Deida "The way of the superior man" is a good book on what masculinity is - dominance, leading, carefree, self-amused, positive, unconditional giving.

If you want to get deeper into this, ask yourself why you can't "relax" around women? Is it because you feel inadequate? Are you looking for her approval?

 

[Franco]

Soma,

A difference I see between the two things, though, is that in the gym (or any class for that matter) you have the instructor / teacher telling you what to do. Even as an employee you're told what to do (unless you have a creative / advisory job). While with women there's so much guesswork, you know, like taking an exam you didn't study for, or couldn't study for because you didn't know what was going to be in it, since girls can be unpredictable. There are so many variables, and how are you suppossed to cram them all before the "exam"? lol

There's one thing you're missing here -- you're allowed to take the "exam" as many times as you'd like!

Every time you go out and approach new women, you're taking the exam all over again. And, as you might assume, the more times you take the "exam," the more likely you are to remember a few of the little things you did wrong on the previous attempts, and you can try to improve upon them each time you go out. So in this analogy, the main point is that the exam is not a "cram it all and give it once chance because this is my only shot to succeed," it is instead, "take the exam over and over again until I get results that I am satisfied with."

The great thing about this is that it allows for experimentation or "guesswork" as you referred to it. Since you can approach as many women as you'd like, you can try as many things as you'd like as well. As you make progress, you'll start to notice which variables always remain consistent among women, and that will allow you to develop your strategies for dealing with those variables and then mastering those strategies. Once you master dealing with the constant variables, you can start learning to train yourself to adapt to the changing variables; i.e. you'll come in a bit "softer" with shy, nervous girls because you recognize that they all get intimidated easily, or you'll come in a bit more "aggressive" with girls who seem to have their walls up, and you'll learn to break down their walls by teasing them or becoming more sexual with them.

Just like with any exam, the more work you put in, the more likely your are to get a better grade. Likewise, the more times you take the exam, the more likely you are to get a better grade. Effort = results. =)

- Franco

 

[SomaRuiz]

And by the way, its probably also a better way to think about it is like this: instead of saying, "can I ever relax around a woman?" ask yourself, "can I ever be a feminine little pussy bitch around a woman and still have her attracted to me?"

That's a bit harsh. Though I get what you mean.

alright, here you went from relax and chill to probably a little try hard and got too excited. Remember to calibrate next time to where the girl's interest level at.

Okay, that sounds good. But how do I go about doing that?
I just recently read Cody's article on Downplaying her interest, and the part about passive, encouraging and "let's do it" interest signs. But he doesn't go into detail as to how to tell those apart. I can't seem to find an article that explains the differences, let alone give examples.

The reason you can't relax might be because you're constantly thinking about the next step, but you forgot to enjoy what's in the present moment. Just let seduction happen. You're seducing each other, so you must give her space to seduce you and not steamroll your energy over her.

I think I understand. But this kind of clashes with the idea of "moving fast" with girls. At least it does in my mind. Is there something I'm missing? XD

Another reason you can't relax might be because you're playing this bad boy character, and the moment you start to relax and "be yourself", it becomes incongruent and the girl will sense something's a little off. The best way to get over this is to stop playing Jame Bond. Stop attaching your identity to be the "bad boy" or the "nice guy". Either one don't really help you in the long run. Instead just be "you" and adopt masculine traits that fit your personality. David Deida "The way of the superior man" is a good book on what masculinity is - dominance, leading, carefree, self-amused, positive, unconditional giving.

If you want to get deeper into this, ask yourself why you can't "relax" around women? Is it because you feel inadequate? Are you looking for her approval?

I guess "relaxing" wasn't the best word to use. I wasn't so sure myself, that's why I used the air-quotes. XD

But yeah, what I meant by relaxing was something more among the lines of "loosening the grip on my emotions", since I'm kind of emotional and sensitive, and a bit of a show-off at times. I guess I should train them impulses to not go haywire, instead of "keeping them on a leash", so to speak.

Once you master dealing with the constant variables, you can start learning to train yourself to adapt to the changing variables; i.e. you'll come in a bit "softer" with shy, nervous girls because you recognize that they all get intimidated easily, or you'll come in a bit more "aggressive" with girls who seem to have their walls up, and you'll learn to break down their walls by teasing them or becoming more sexual with them.

I think that's a great way of putting it. So I guess I'm getting better with constant variables, I'll have to keep making progress. lol

 

[Smith]

Okay, that sounds good. But how do I go about doing that?

majority of the time you'll have to go with your instinct and experience. You'll be too pushy at time and too passive some other times, but you'll eventually get a feel of it. Sometimes you need to put the pressure on, sometimes you need to take the pressure off. Reading it from articles won't help you as much as going out there and learn the calibration by trial and error. Physicality and moving things forward are the best way to gauge her interest.

I think I understand. But this kind of clashes with the idea of "moving fast" with girls. At least it does in my mind. Is there something I'm missing? XD

When I say "let seduction happen", I don't mean you sit around and do nothing. You still talk, flirt, tease, vibe and lead her. But you're not desperate to get to the outcome. You don't need to quickly get to the end of the movie to make you happy. You allow space for things to happen, which means you don't talk too much, too fast and fill every silence. You're giving her space to seduce you. You're comfortable with yourself. This is where "passive attraction" comes from. Sure you want to "move fast", but it's the process of seducing a girl that makes the whole experience fun and memorable. You can only move as fast as the girl's comfortable with. Don't chase the future to make yourself happy.

 

[SomaRuiz]

majority of the time you'll have to go with your instinct and experience. You'll be too pushy at time and too passive some other times, but you'll eventually get a feel of it. Sometimes you need to put the pressure on, sometimes you need to take the pressure off. Reading it from articles won't help you as much as going out there and learn the calibration by trial and error. Physicality and moving things forward are the best way to gauge her interest.

That's cool and all, but I don't really trust my instincts. Case in point, my basic instinct is to chase, but logic and what I've read on the site says otherwise. Like the examples I gave above, I did get something out of them, but it wasn't instinctive, it was after thinking about it long and hard.

I know I'm not outright being told to "figure it out myself", but I'd like something more concrete. And I know articles are mostly "theoretical" as opposed to "practical" (though many articles I've read really seem more like "practical advice", especially ones with examples), but it'd be much harder if I don't know what I'm looking for, since some signs could just fly over my head when I should have paid attention, while others I could be overthinking and saying "what did that mean?" when there was a simple explanation, which is not something good to do when in the moment, otherwise I would just freeze for too long (which I usually do), or speak out of line like in the examples.

I guess I'll just keep looking on the site... Or otherwise asking more concrete questions myself later on. lol

 

[Smith]

I know I'm not outright being told to "figure it out myself", but I'd like something more concrete. And I know articles are mostly "theoretical" as opposed to "practical" (though many articles I've read really seem more like "practical advice", especially ones with examples), but it'd be much harder if I don't know what I'm looking for, since some signs could just fly over my head when I should have paid attention, while others I could be overthinking and saying "what did that mean?" when there was a simple explanation, which is not something good to do when in the moment, otherwise I would just freeze for too long (which I usually do), or speak out of line like in the examples.

Experience is more important than anything. You could spend months looking for concrete examples of signs and they still won't help you because you'll still be stuck in your head looking for signs instead of enjoying the moment. Sometimes I overthink and freeze as well, and when that happens, I know it's because I'm attached to the outcome, and my own solution for that is to switch the focus back to relax and have fun and remind myself in a bigger picture this is not a big deal if I get rejected. If you're afraid of "rejection", you have to realize either you have enough chemistry with her to move forward at that moment or you don't. And the best way to learn how to calibrate is through trial and error to develop your "instinct". The basic gist of calibration is you try to move things forward either physically or logistically. If she accepts, great! If not, step back and relax then try again later. This is my "practical advice" for calibration. Don't calibrate when you didn't even try to move things forward. Sometimes you just have to push yourself out of your comfort zone and get into awkward situations, but it's all part of learning =)

 

[SomaRuiz]

I know reading won't make me do things. Like Robert Kiyosaki used to say "a book can't teach you how to ride a bike". But a sort of proverbial "training wheels" would really help. Haha XD

That bit at the end does sound more concrete, though. XD
"try to move things forward and gauge reactions"
Thanks.

I guess I could come up with my own rules of thumb as I progress.
One I can think of right now would be "If I'm wondering if saying something at a given moment would be chasing, it very probably is"