Socializing You need to be able to control yourself boys when it comes to subjects...

[ulrich]

Based on what I say on the forum? If that is what you are using at a litmus test then I do not know what to tell you to be honest. We all say things on the internet that we would never say online because we have a screen name and somewhat anonymous identity to hide behind. Assuming that you are more of the type to hear guys out, yeah, I have become very political in recent months after being someone who could have cared less even during the pandemic. It is irritating to hear this nonsense time and time and time again when one side can be as political as they want in public and it's okay but the other is expected to keep its mouth shut.

When you do not play along with some left wing nutjob's rants at a party and get told "oh you must have voted for Trump". On the inside, you can smile a bit thinking "yes faggot, I voted for Trump, cry on TikTok about it" but then to face it over and over and over again party after party. You break, you break because you can no longer pretend to go with some tool's political insecurity. You break because you can no longer stand to see your own cheer on cancel culture and being woke anymore. To be silenced, to be backed into a corner to agree with some people, and worst of all to see just how scummy these people actually are while parading as self-righteous.

Forums become a release in a way and it's no wonder Youtube comments have become heavily right wing over the years.

That's how bad it has gotten now, politics can no longer be ignored. It no longer gets mentioned in passing and instead gets shoved in your face if you are someone in their 20s living in a big city. I have decided to avoid expanding social circles with the party people because of it and taken a break from nightlife as well. You have no idea how bad it gets and a simple nod and agree doesn't work when they aggressively probe and force you to give your left wing rant as well. I am like, go burn in your own communist hell scum on the inside.

Dude, you seriously need to chill down with the politics.
It has taken a hold of you.

Stop watching news, stop going into social media, stop reading politic analysis… all of that is designed to trigger you.
Chill down, get some distance and live a calmer and happier life without it.

 

[Will_V]

Based on what I say on the forum? If that is what you are using at a litmus test then I do not know what to tell you to be honest. We all say things on the internet that we would never say online because we have a screen name and somewhat anonymous identity to hide behind. Assuming that you are more of the type to hear guys out, yeah, I have become very political in recent months after being someone who could have cared less even during the pandemic. It is irritating to hear this nonsense time and time and time again when one side can be as political as they want in public and it's okay but the other is expected to keep its mouth shut.

When you do not play along with some left wing nutjob's rants at a party and get told "oh you must have voted for Trump". On the inside, you can smile a bit thinking "yes faggot, I voted for Trump, cry on TikTok about it" but then to face it over and over and over again party after party. You break, you break because you can no longer pretend to go with some tool's political insecurity. You break because you can no longer stand to see your own cheer on cancel culture and being woke anymore. To be silenced, to be backed into a corner to agree with some people, and worst of all to see just how scummy these people actually are while parading as self-righteous.

Forums become a release in a way and it's no wonder Youtube comments have become heavily right wing over the years.

That's how bad it has gotten now, politics can no longer be ignored. It no longer gets mentioned in passing and instead gets shoved in your face if you are someone in their 20s living in a big city. I have decided to avoid expanding social circles with the party people because of it and taken a break from nightlife as well. You have no idea how bad it gets and a simple nod and agree doesn't work when they aggressively probe and force you to give your left wing rant as well. I am like, go burn in your own communist hell scum on the inside.

Dude you are completely uncalibrated here. This forum is about seduction, many guys here are already biased against the status quo, many are 'red pill' and questioning a lot of things they were told for a long time was true (such as the typical emasculated idea of what a man's life should be). We aren't your enemy.

Yet here you are suddenly trying to ram stuff down people's throats like every thread is about your politics. I get that your experiences around vaccination and stuff has polarized you, maybe you're having a rough time, but you need to understand that you're not connecting with anyone with these rants. There is no objective for you to complete here unless it's getting better with women. If you want to go to war about politics, go and yell at a leftist rally or join a twitter mob, that's where it's all going down.

Also, a lot of seducers are very high in openness as a personality trait (something women generally enjoy) which correlates with liberalism and despising ideologies and dogmatic belief systems - even those who believe there are things very wrong with the status quo. No matter what point you're trying to make, the way you rant about it comes across exactly like those things that open-minded people dislike. You're like a preacher outside a nightclub. Wrong place, wrong time, wasted effort, no pussy, and probably a bad end of the night.

 

[Skills]

Guys i have not words, don't know what to say, i went on a rant in a private group chat, cause i can't even believe what i am seeing, again guys this is the problems and why i explain i was sad about the red pill and the guys representing it fucking guys up, like rest in peace troy and the likes here is a sample of the top red pill ladies man, this guy is suppose to be THE TOP RED PILL Guy:

- In multimillionare
-in luxury cars
-in status
-in amazing body
-in deep voice
-in top market value
-in can fight
-in 8 pack


BUT his game is TOTAL SHIT! TOTAL PUPU! TOTAL CRAP, but anyways, this is an example of exactly i told you guys and keep telling you about the problems with the so call red pill by the way excellent timing after getting into some ridiculous fight with a sosave dude, about smv, perfect timing.... Anyways this is example same behavior of what i talk about in the OP don't get into frame fucking battles about politics, red pill, women nature etc...

mistakes:

- glasses on
- leaning in for the 2 kisses ( i would have had her get up), oh high nice to meet you can you get up real quick to see how tall are you or some shit like that... But this was not bad the 2 kisses were ok, but i don't think is such a HUGE escalation or big deal...
- start talking about "jets and the money he has indirectly "though some of you can see as dhv i really don't care about this...
- 0 flirty humor or seductive topics
- unnecessary polirization
- Madonna whore complex
- destroy being ss
-seem to calculated scripted

somethings he did good:
- good fundamentals but the glasses fucked it all up (beard is off too, he can improve the beard and he could get head tattoo)
- when he was talking about social media and people being fake that was great but his timing was off she was already pissed, he should have started with this...

again guys exactly my point on this op and exactly why the red pill has no hope here:

and the analysis of kj tomassi as always never disappoints:

 

[Rakehell]

This is a good thread. I think another topic that should be altogether avoided is psychology. I say this because a close woman in my life who, although our relationship isn’t sexual views me as a manipulator at some level.

I’d never openly talked about psychology with her, she just knew I’d studied it at one point.

Mind you she knows I studied psychology, not pick up, not seducing women, psychology.

And because of this, anytime any disagreement is had she reverts to calling me a, manipulator, gaslighter, etc. She can’t see past the fact that I took an interest in psychology educationally.

You’ll be branded as calculated and it isn’t a good look.

 

[Skills]

This is a good thread. I think another topic that should be altogether avoided is psychology. I say this because a close woman in my life who, although our relationship isn’t sexual views me as a manipulator at some level.

I’d never openly talked about psychology with her, she just knew I’d studied it at one point.

Mind you she knows I studied psychology, not pick up, not seducing women, psychology.

And because of this, anytime any disagreement is had she reverts to calling me a, manipulator, gaslighter, etc. She can’t see past the fact that I took an interest in psychology educationally.

You’ll be branded as calculated and it isn’t a good look.

this may be causation correlation, i talk about psychology at times i don't think i had issue and relationships is chick crack...though some guys in the forum say they had bad experiences such as yours, that has not been my experience.

 

[Rakehell]

this may be causation correlation, i talk about psychology at times i don't think i had issue and relationships is chick crack...though some guys in the forum say they had bad experiences such as yours, that has not been my experience.

I believe the reason is she is fairly “manipulative” in her own right. Reads books about seducing guy’s and is pretty good at getting what she wants out of people.

So she projects that onto me as I also take interest in psychology. She's aware of some of the concepts and nitpicks it in my behavior.

 

[Will_V]

Guys i have not words, don't know what to say, i went on a rant in a private group chat, cause i can't even believe what i am seeing, again guys this is the problems and why i explain i was sad about the red pill and the guys representing it fucking guys up, like rest in peace troy and the likes here is a sample of the top red pill ladies man, this guy is suppose to be THE TOP RED PILL Guy:

- In multimillionare
-in luxury cars
-in status
-in amazing body
-in deep voice
-in top market value
-in can fight
-in 8 pack


BUT his game is TOTAL SHIT! TOTAL PUPU! TOTAL CRAP, but anyways, this is an example of exactly i told you guys and keep telling you about the problems with the so call red pill by the way excellent timing after getting into some ridiculous fight with a sosave dude, about smv, perfect timing.... Anyways this is example same behavior of what i talk about in the OP don't get into frame fucking battles about politics, red pill, women nature etc...

mistakes:

- glasses on
- leaning in for the 2 kisses ( i would have had her get up), oh high nice to meet you can you get up real quick to see how tall are you or some shit like that... But this was not bad the 2 kisses were ok, but i don't think is such a HUGE escalation or big deal...
- start talking about "jets and the money he has indirectly "though some of you can see as dhv i really don't care about this...
- 0 flirty humor or seductive topics
- unnecessary polirization
- Madonna whore complex
- destroy being ss
-seem to calculated scripted

somethings he did good:
- good fundamentals but the glasses fucked it all up (beard is off too, he can improve the beard and he could get head tattoo)
- when he was talking about social media and people being fake that was great but his timing was off she was already pissed, he should have started with this...

again guys exactly my point on this op and exactly why the red pill has no hope here:

and the analysis of kj tomassi as always never disappoints:

He says that his goal was to rile her up, I think it's pretty clear by some of his responses that was the case. She swallowed a few dozen hard 'mansplaining' pills there without missing a beat. Definitely not the sort of thing you'd hand out on a typical seduction. This guy is likely more concerned with his upward youtube trajectory than banging that woman.

I like him, his videos are some of the best examples of good internal and external frame control that anyone will find. One of the very few red pillers I enjoy listening to.

 

[Will_V]

This is a good thread. I think another topic that should be altogether avoided is psychology. I say this because a close woman in my life who, although our relationship isn’t sexual views me as a manipulator at some level.

I’d never openly talked about psychology with her, she just knew I’d studied it at one point.

Mind you she knows I studied psychology, not pick up, not seducing women, psychology.

And because of this, anytime any disagreement is had she reverts to calling me a, manipulator, gaslighter, etc. She can’t see past the fact that I took an interest in psychology educationally.

You’ll be branded as calculated and it isn’t a good look.

Good frame control helps. The way you talk about a topic tells her a lot about what angle you come at it from. When she attacks your interest she's really attacking your identity around it.

 

[Rakehell]

Good frame control helps. The way you talk about a topic tells her a lot about what angle you come at it from. When she attacks your interest she's really attacking your identity around it.

I get where you’re coming from but it’s not something I directly discussed. Framing isn’t the issue i’m getting at. Its the preconceived notions about a topic by someone with surface level understanding.

In the same way a person may support a policitician who’s polarizing to a subgroup of people. You may support that politician for reasons that resonate with you beyond what’s on the surface. But talk to someone from that subgroup about it and at some level they will associate you with their surface level understanding.

You can make them understand with the framing true, but with something like psychology where you largely understand the innerworkings of other people. If they ever feel dissatisfied with your behavior, they can easily attribute it to you being an authority on psychology.

In my specific case she uses it as a way to attempt to outframe any behavior of mine that she disagrees with.

In my opinion it’s best to avoid being perceived as someone really mired in psychology altogether.

edit: for clarifications sake i’ll give an example, i’m largely unmoved by social pressure and emotional outbursts by women, in her case in another emotional outburst she’ll attribute it to me “studying psychology and being a gaslighter”

 

[PureGold]

I agree 1000%
Talking about those topics is trying hard

 

[Will_V]

I get where you’re coming from but it’s not something I directly discussed. Framing isn’t the issue i’m getting at. Its the preconceived notions about a topic by someone with surface level understanding.

In the same way a person may support a policitician who’s polarizing to a subgroup of people. You may support that politician for reasons that resonate with you beyond what’s on the surface. But talk to someone from that subgroup about it and at some level they will associate you with their surface level understanding.

You can make them understand with the framing true, but with something like psychology where you largely understand the innerworkings of other people. If they ever feel dissatisfied with your behavior, they can easily attribute it to you being an authority on psychology.

In my specific case she uses it as a way to attempt to outframe any behavior of mine that she disagrees with.

In my opinion it’s best to avoid being perceived as someone really mired in psychology altogether.

edit: for clarifications sake i’ll give an example, i’m largely unmoved by social pressure and emotional outbursts by women, in her case in another emotional outburst she’ll attribute it to me “studying psychology and being a gaslighter”

Politics is definitely a waste of time, because nobody really cares about it anyway.

Psychology is a bit of a different issue. I get where you're coming from, it's definitely a thing that she will try to use against you if it intimidates her. But it's also something that interests any woman greatly, and she can respect your knowledge and understanding if you frame it well.

What I like to do in these situations is to frame everything, sometimes in an exaggerated way, around my personal strength, dominance, and outstanding abilities. Do I understand the inner workings of people? Yes, it's my job as a leader and as a man to make sure everyone is on the right path, and to best any enemy. I have mastered myself, and I can show her how to become her best self too. I'm exceptional and valuable as a direct result of it.

Do you think she doesn't respect or fail to perceive the psychological knowledge of all those self-help gurus she's listening to all the time? But they know how to frame themselves and their message in a way that draws her in, and makes her relax and submit to their frame.

In a seduction, you typically want to steer everything to seem spontaneous, but in a relationship, a woman respects capability, and as long as it comes in the form of something that she can get on board with, and she's regularly taking the D, she'll love you all the more for it.

 

[Rakehell]

What I like to do in these situations is to frame everything, sometimes in an exaggerated way, around my personal strength, dominance, and outstanding abilities. Do I understand the inner workings of people? Yes, it's my job as a leader and as a man to make sure everyone is on the right path, and to best any enemy. I have mastered myself, and I can show her how to become her best self too. I'm exceptional and valuable as a direct result of it.

I see what you’re saying, women do very well respect strength. Being an authority on psychology is probably one of the greatest strengths.

But at the same time, and this goes for seduction as well; psychology and the social arts are fundamentally the woman’s playground. As kids we manipulate our way by crying or throwing tantrums, but grow out of it as men because we now have the strength to reach our desired outcome.

Girl’s on the otherhand further refine their manipulation, because they are not as able to assert themselves.

In a world where big confident men assert their will, psychology and manipulation is how women attain the things they want out of life.

When you have a guy who’s mastered her craft, her little bit of leverage over men. You’ve effectively gotten her beat on all fronts.

Some women will be borderline afraid of this. Intent aside you still have the ability to be calculated and furthermore to see HER calculation.

 

[StrayDog]

Other things to not spewing willy-nilly on the internet or otherwise in general.

-Intimate details of your personal psychology. So many dudes out there trying to appear "vulnerable" and "sensitive" because it is chic. All the while not realizing how much they are giving others the keys to their mind. Obviously are times when sharing little bits of yourself makes sense and is advantageous, but don't be drawing others a complete roadmap to how you tick. It is okay to share more intimate parts of yourself with trusted confidants, but do be aware of where the boundaries are and never share too much. This is also true for more 'sacred' personal truths and experiences. It is important to have parts of ourselves that are known only to you. There is power in cultivating a rich personal world and only letting a few initiates catch small glimmers of your depth.
Furthermore, save for your therapist, no one wants to be your therapist. So don't be dropping your weight onto the unsuspecting shoulders of those around you
-Intimate details of other people's lives. People who blab about other people, especially when it is fairly private information, are not to be trusted. The moment you spill such and such detail about so and so's life, others will instantly see you as untrustworthy. And rightfully so. The man who keeps a tight lip about others often finds people coming to him as a trusted confidant.

 

[Will_V]

I see what you’re saying, women do very well respect strength. Being an authority on psychology is probably one of the greatest strengths.

But at the same time, and this goes for seduction as well; psychology and the social arts are fundamentally the woman’s playground. As kids we manipulate our way by crying or throwing tantrums, but grow out of it as men because we now have the strength to reach our desired outcome.

Girl’s on the otherhand further refine their manipulation, because they are not as able to assert themselves.

In a world where big confident men assert their will, psychology and manipulation is how women attain the things they want out of life.

When you have a guy who’s mastered her craft, her little bit of leverage over men. You’ve effectively gotten her beat on all fronts.

Some women will be borderline afraid of this. Intent aside you still have the ability to be calculated and furthermore to see HER calculation.

There is fundamental truth to what you say, but I think it is incomplete.

You appear to assume a number of things 1) that a woman's effectiveness with a man is based on his lack of knowledge of something 2) that a woman requires substantial psychological leverage with her man (I say substantial because ignorance of human psychology is a pretty big lack) and feels uncomfortable if she doesn't have it 3) that relationships are fundamentally competitive and 4) she expects and wants her man to succeed in life through strength rather than cunning.

The truth is that if a woman really feels you love her and care for her, she doesn't really expect or want that sort of leverage (though she'll perceive whatever levers you reveal and file the information away for later). The two of you are already a team, she is adapted to you and you are moving together in the same direction. She is submitting and getting her desires fulfilled, and you are leading and having yours fulfilled. Anything that weakens you weakens her.

If the relationship devolves into conflict and manipulation, well, that's a different story. But it's certainly not where you want to be. Eventually it will implode anyway.

The main reason she doesn't actually want a man who is lacking knowledge in the inner workings of the human mind is that she knows, as everyone does, that ignorant people are easily manipulated. There are big, confident (at least for a while) men all over the place who hardly get anywhere in life, constantly finding either conflict or avoidance from others, who are worn down by manipulators into shells, who are easily turned aside and led astray by people skilled enough to avoid scuffling with them. And there are unassuming men who handle all kinds of people like they are kittens. If one of them decided to ruin her man's life, she is in serious trouble.

The true domain of human competition these days is never physical, and every woman knows this well in spite of her instincts. That's why she might happily bang a big dumb sexy brute but will not reply to him the next day, or ditch him the moment he starts falling in love. And the man who walks in gracefully and holds court wherever he goes, who keeps a band of loyal warriors he acquired through understanding rather than force, whose hand spins the thread of other people's lives for his and their mutual benefit, is adored and chased by women. Does she believe for a minute that this sort of man is ignorant of anything, let alone one of the most important skills in life?

What a woman wants is a bond, not a lever. She wants a man in whose nature failure is rare and painful, who has strong principles and a strong identity. Because then, she has only to know that he loves her, and make sure she doesn't cross his boundaries, and his own self will take care of her fears. She does not have to push the right levers at the right time (which comes with the responsibility of doing it well). And those levers are not there for anyone else to hold.

 

[Skills]

He says that his goal was to rile her up, I think it's pretty clear by some of his responses that was the case. She swallowed a few dozen hard 'mansplaining' pills there without missing a beat. Definitely not the sort of thing you'd hand out on a typical seduction. This guy is likely more concerned with his upward youtube trajectory than banging that woman.

I like him, his videos are some of the best examples of good internal and external frame control that anyone will find. One of the very few red pillers I enjoy listening to.

I suspected this, but is a bad example and still it may be cope, a dude going to a date with glasses is beyond horrible, even his attempts at flirting were awful..... Paul janka neil strauss and ross jeffries did similar things back in the day, but they kept it seduction..... Not all that none sense that will cause impressionable autists which is the majority of the red pill community to replicate this none sense, i guarantee you they are already engaging in this behavior...

look at the difference:

 

[ulrich]

and the analysis of kj tomassi as always never disappoints:

What the hell is this trainwreck??

Im not surprised there is a “rich” guy doing dumb stuff with women… but a YouTuber preaching that’s good seduction? What the hell??

 

[Rakehell]

There is fundamental truth to what you say, but I think it is incomplete.

You appear to assume a number of things 1) that a woman's effectiveness with a man is based on his lack of knowledge of something 2) that a woman requires substantial psychological leverage with her man (I say substantial because ignorance of human psychology is a pretty big lack) and feels uncomfortable if she doesn't have it 3) that relationships are fundamentally competitive and 4) she expects and wants her man to succeed in life through strength rather than cunning.

I believe we are talking about two different things. In the grand scheme of romantic relationships it is fine to have a stacked deck because you two are a team this is true.

But the point I made wasn’t centered around monogamy or romance.

Bigger picture wise, for casual social relationships, friendships, just starting to get to know a girl, etc.

You really don’t want to be seen as the psychology expert. It is on the threshold of accepted/taboo.

Most people are not aware of any metacognition nor consciously empathizing with others. Men do not normally take up interest in psychology.

It will trigger alarms in normal people. It’s fine to bring up aspects of psychology, framing it as self help or the like. I do this. Some seductive techniques take jumping into the mind of others and relating it to them (such as pacing and leading), in a way you are showing them your understanding of their psychological makeup.

But once you cross that line of using psychological terms or seeming like you know too much about psychology as a subject. You are crossing the line of a highly empathetic socially aware guy, to someone who may be calculated or manipulative.

Better to be the unknowing psychological savant who gets the things he wants, isn’t easily manipulated, and who understands people.

Than the guy who actively studies psychological concepts.

 

[Skills]

I believe we are talking about two different things. In the grand scheme of romantic relationships it is fine to have a stacked deck because you two are a team this is true.

But the point I made wasn’t centered around monogamy or romance.

Bigger picture wise, for casual social relationships, friendships, just starting to get to know a girl, etc.

You really don’t want to be seen as the psychology expert. It is on the threshold of accepted/taboo.

Most people are not aware of any metacognition nor consciously empathizing with others. Men do not normally take up interest in psychology.

It will trigger alarms in normal people. It’s fine to bring up aspects of psychology, framing it as self help or the like. I do this. Some seductive techniques take jumping into the mind of others and relating it to them (such as pacing and leading), in a way you are showing them your understanding of their psychological makeup.

But once you cross that line of using psychological terms or seeming like you know too much about psychology as a subject. You are crossing the line of a highly empathetic socially aware guy, to someone who may be calculated or manipulative.

Better to be the unknowing psychological savant who gets the things he wants, isn’t easily manipulated, and who understands people.

Than the guy who actively studies psychological concepts.

This none sense causation correlation check this post: https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...ht-club-and-i-think-otherwise-is-silly.25867/

 

[FunGuy]

Very interesting posts in this topic very good thread!

To add one more thing I try to avoid talking about details about my past relationships or sexual history pre-sex. If they ask questions about that before I smash I give quick generic answers and change the subject. I've lost a few guaranteed lays for speaking too much about this.