Your Value is What You've Achieved

[Bboy100]

If you live in a Western society, it's almost guranteed that what your worth as a human being, both in your own eyes and in the eyes of your peers is dictated almost entirely by what you've achieved.

On the most superficial level, it's
- What car do you drive?
-What do you work as?
- How hot is the girl(s) on your arm?
-How much money do you have and what items can you buy with it?
-Who are your friends?
- What cool events/places have you been to or do you have access to?
- How good looking are you?
-What clothes do you wear?

But even if you go beyond the superficial level that the media feeds us, even those who are more enlightened and seem to have a better grasp of what's important, you'll notice that it's STILL all about achievement. Such as
- What is your family/kids like?
- Are you married? Is she a good wife/is it a fulfilling relationship?
- Are your friends cool and supportive?
- Did you manage to find a fulfilling career which brings you happiness?
- Do you have something which gives meaning or purpose to your life?

If you notice, even that second set of items...the ones most people would call less superficial and more meaningful...they're still all based on achievement. That is to say...they are things you as an individual have earned or accomplished.

Although I'm not too familiar with them, so its hard for me to give specific examples, my understanding is that some Eastern, more collectivist societies value themselves differently. It's not really about what they've done and what they own. At least, not on the individual level. As a result, they often have much higher self-esteem and levels of happiness than those in Western societies.

So the thought I'd like to address here is...what is value to you? If you measure your worth and that of others via the achievements they have, is there perhaps a better, more healthy way of assigning value? If so, what are your ideas?

 

[Thedoctor]

Bboy,

So the thought I'd like to address here is...what is value to you? If you measure your worth and that of others via the achievements they have, is there perhaps a better, more healthy way of assigning value? If so, what are your ideas?

A person's true value can be determined by their attitudes towards life and their confidence in general. When you're confidant, that conveys to the world is that you're happy with your accomplishments and your life.

When a person starts listing off their accomplishments (whether that be their wage, possessions, or any other number of things you mentioned), they are displaying their insecurities and seeking validation. Some people will also do this by basically putting you down. For instance, if someone finds out you work out, "Do you even lift, bro?"

Another thing to keep in mind is that you tend to attract the same people as what you project.
If you value having a nice car, you attract people who also value that
If you value going to cool events / hottest clubs, then you all attract those people etc.

If that's cool and it makes you happy, then by all means do it. Just keep in mind that in doing so, you may repel other types of people who don't see those things as valuable.

Your second list relates more to internal peace and happiness, but really you can look at it the same way. If you're overall happy with them, then you'll project that to the world. There's really no need to volunteer the info that your wife is great or you have a wonderful career.

In western society, self-esteem issues are quite prevalent, which is probably also why this need to "have superficial worth to be a valuable human being" is a common thought. Everyone values things differently. For instance, I could care less what vehicle I drive. I view it as a tool to get from place A to place B.

So to answer your question, a healthy way of assigning value to a person is with their attitude. Do you enjoy being around them? Or do they put people down, or play the victim card, or seek constant validation?

-John

 

[Chase]

Discussions of value are always interesting. The important thing to keep in mind with them is that there's little truly universal value, although there is value that has some degree of importance, if varying, from individual to individual.

e.g., preselection will really impact how highly a woman values you, but how much depends on the woman. Some girls it'll intrigue, some it'll make go crazy for you, and some it'll shoot straight into auto-rejection because the problem was they needed you to have more attainability, not higher value.

Or, some girls are really impressed by a nice car, while others will shrug and go, "Meh." They may get a subconscious thing going, "Yeah, okay, I should take this guy a little more seriously," but that might be it. Or they may even see the nice car and lose respect for the guy driving it because they think guys who drive X car instead of Y car are idiots. Or you may get the girl who thinks anyone driving anything other than a Tesla is uncool and behind the times. Or the one who thinks any car under $200K is not a "nice" car.

When you get onto the accomplishments/meaning bit, then you start getting into "what lens do you see the world through" stuff, which opens up the "how do you value life" conversation. You get the meaning folks arguing that life's about what you build and accomplish and leave behind, and then you get the pleasure folks arguing that life's about indulging your senses and feeling and experiencing. These two perspectives value life completely differently; for one, a billion dollar company that does something very useful is a blockbuster achievement, while for the other, that's nice, but a sign of someone who spent too much time at work and not enough time at play, and probably wouldn't be very fun to hang out with or be leading all that happy a life compared to someone who indulged himself more and pushed himself less. And you can be both perspectives at various times in your life; I've seen guys swing from pleasure to meaning, then back the other way from meaning to pleasure, and even back again, depending on what they're doing or where they're going.

The questions to ask about what any given person values are, "What does this person want out of life? Is it pleasure and experience? Vanity and recognition? Power and success? Family and friends? Comfort and security?" Everyone wants these things to some extent or another, but how much someone wants them differs dramatically from individual to individual.

Once you know what she primarily values, then you know how to relate to her and what side of yourself to share, if the goal is bonding and forming a connection. Or, when you're screening for someone whose value system is more aligned with your own (say, when you're looking for a girlfriend), you use this as a screening tool instead.

Value's crazy relative from person to person... it often takes some time to realize that. We all walk around seeing the world from our lens, and we tend to project that onto other people and assume they see the world through similar lenses, but very often people you will encounter have very different beliefs about underlying facts of life or valuations on various things than you do (and many of those moments where you're talking to a girl and it feels like you two just don't connect are coming from core value clashes, if you dig enough).

Chase

 

[Bboy100]

These are some interesting points in terms of assigning value to others and how others assign value to you.

But what about creating a good model for determining your own value? For example, I might believe that I must have accomplished or own or done xyz in order to feel good about myself. This worldview can easily cause fluctuation of self-esteem. It leaves my own happiness and confidence at the mercy of the external world. At any given point in my life, I might feel like I'm achieving what I need to, but a simple reframe or change of perspective could easily change that. Or, I might lose the accomplishments I previously had (e.g. I might go through a divorce or lose my job etc.), and am therefore, no longer "measuring up" to my own standards.

This seems like a very bad way of looking at ourselves. I see this affecting people in our culture all the time. We're living in one of the most powerful and wealthy countries in the world. And yet, most of us feel pretty shitty about ourselves compared to many other countries in the world.

Is there any way to see yourself as "high value" (i.e. have high-self esteem) without necessarily requiring any accomplishments or external things?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Bboy100, Chase,

Ar, gotta love Chase response.

But what about creating a good model for determining your own value? For example, I might believe that I must have accomplished or own or done xyz in order to feel good about myself. This worldview can easily cause fluctuation of self-esteem. It leaves my own happiness and confidence at the mercy of the external world. At any given point in my life, I might feel like I'm achieving what I need to, but a simple reframe or change of perspective could easily change that. Or, I might lose the accomplishments I previously had (e.g. I might go through a divorce or lose my job etc.), and am therefore, no longer "measuring up" to my own standards.

Actually we have done it a lot than we realize. Ever lost something, then rationalize that "things happen for a reason" or "it made me better". Do not worry. Your body is designed to adapt. You just need to recognize your own 'nonsense'.

We all have to recognize our own 'nonsense'/rationalizations. Sure, having "standards" is important but it is also a balance between you are nothing and you are everything.

Is there any way to see yourself as "high value" (i.e. have high-self esteem) without necessarily requiring any accomplishments or external things?

Do not associate your value with your human body, is the closest thing you can have to be "free".

Zac