OR “God frowns on sex” - Huge Frame Battle with Christian Girl

[Kaida]

Today I went out with the same girl from my last FR date.

For the people that didnt read that heres the gist:

- We were talking about experiences & sex was brought up

- She said she’s a strong Christian and “doesn’t have sex” because she wants to resist her flesh (she has 1 body from a previous boyfriend)

- Instead of reframing like I should have I changed topics

- The first 2 dates went phenomenal otherwise

I could tell by her subsequent behavior on her second date (and she the fact that denied a home movie date for date 2) that reframing sex at that time was crucial.

My goal on this date #3 today was to do my best to bring that topic back up and reframing it.

Which I did.

Heres how it went:

---

Me: (mid deep dive)… so yeah, the girl I’m with has to satisfy me fully, especially sexually, for me to really consider her

Her: What do you mean especially sexually? Do you think sex is necessary for a relationship


Me: I think sex is definitely necessary for it to be real. Sexual compatibility is important.

Her: I agree. But it cant be everything

Me: Of course it should be built on connection and trust, but I feel sex is really what locks it in.

Me: For example, imagine you’re in a relationship with a guy and y’all are having sex, but you’re not feeling it anymore. Whats the first thing you stop doing?

Her: I stop having sex

Me: Exactly. So the same way lack of sex can break two people up, sex can bring two people together. Sex is fun and all but its really the amplification of the connection between two people that makes it so beautiful.

Her: I completely agree that a relationship requires intimacy. I’m all for satisfying my man in all sorts of ways. I just don’t think we’d have to go all the way especially since God frowns upon it. I cant knowingly sin.

Me: Haven’t you had sex already?

Her: Yes.

Me: So how do you think God views that? You think he just hates you now.

Her: No, of course not. I don’t regret it either. But God loves me, but hates sin. I just cant do that to Him.
Her: (Getting emotional) Especially since I know he doesn’t like it. Its like stabbing him in the back over and over. Its literally hurting him. I cant do that to him again.
Her: (She’s trying to hide tears as she says this) Even if my flesh won and I had sex with you by any chance, I would just be so devastated because I knew what I was doing and still did it. It’s like I just hurt him again without thinking.

Me: So why’d you have sex the first time?

Her: I was kind of persuaded. I still take full responsibility for my actions though… but he made me feel like I was the only one and we were going to get married. But then I got a call at 5am while he was next to me from his “other girlfriend” and she showed me videos.

Me: Wow. Some people you really cant trust for shit.
Me: You definitely look like you made it out stronger.

Her: Yeah it really developed my character. I’m 100% healed, glad it happened so I could learn. I don’t regret it, but its for that reason why I feel like God saved sex for marriage.

Me: What even is marriage though? You think God cares about the little white dress and the contract you sign at the courthouse? Adam and Eve never had that.

Her: I think sex is marriage in a sense. Thats Gods contract.

Me: I see. I personally think its not as black and white as that, and I think God just loves it when two people who genuinely want each other come together. Everyone’s but as long as we keep to the basic tenants

Her: Yeah, maybe.

Me : *switches topics*

---

After this conversation the vibe was 2x more sexual. She even said she’s moving into her dorm Wednesday and her parents wont be there for too long. I think I’m close to the lay.

Shes in good contention for being a GF, I still have to vet her more though.

Only thing is, I don’t want to hurt her at all. I definitely will keep her around but its obvious the sex thing will give her a huge wave of cognitive dissonance even if she enjoys it in the moment.

Plus I know LMR will probably be huge.

What do I do?

 

[Will_V]

Today I went out with the same girl from my last FR date.

For the people that didnt read that heres the gist:

- We were talking about experiences & sex was brought up

- She said she’s a strong Christian and “doesn’t have sex” because she wants to resist her flesh (she has 1 body from a previous boyfriend)

- Instead of reframing like I should have I changed topics

- The first 2 dates went phenomenal otherwise

I could tell by her subsequent behavior on her second date (and she the fact that denied a home movie date for date 2) that reframing sex at that time was crucial.

My goal on this date #3 today was to do my best to bring that topic back up and reframing it.

Which I did.

Heres how it went:

---

Me: (mid deep dive)… so yeah, the girl I’m with has to satisfy me fully, especially sexually, for me to really consider her

Her: What do you mean especially sexually? Do you think sex is necessary for a relationship


Me: I think sex is definitely necessary for it to be real. Sexual compatibility is important.

Her: I agree. But it cant be everything

Me: Of course it should be built on connection and trust, but I feel sex is really what locks it in.

Me: For example, imagine you’re in a relationship with a guy and y’all are having sex, but you’re not feeling it anymore. Whats the first thing you stop doing?

Her: I stop having sex

Me: Exactly. So the same way lack of sex can break two people up, sex can bring two people together. Sex is fun and all but its really the amplification of the connection between two people that makes it so beautiful.

Her: I completely agree that a relationship requires intimacy. I’m all for satisfying my man in all sorts of ways. I just don’t think we’d have to go all the way especially since God frowns upon it. I cant knowingly sin.

Me: Haven’t you had sex already?

Her: Yes.

Me: So how do you think God views that? You think he just hates you now.

Her: No, of course not. I don’t regret it either. But God loves me, but hates sin. I just cant do that to Him.
Her: (Getting emotional) Especially since I know he doesn’t like it. Its like stabbing him in the back over and over. Its literally hurting him. I cant do that to him again.
Her: (She’s trying to hide tears as she says this) Even if my flesh won and I had sex with you by any chance, I would just be so devastated because I knew what I was doing and still did it. It’s like I just hurt him again without thinking.

Me: So why’d you have sex the first time?

Her: I was kind of persuaded. I still take full responsibility for my actions though… but he made me feel like I was the only one and we were going to get married. But then I got a call at 5am while he was next to me from his “other girlfriend” and she showed me videos.

Me: Wow. Some people you really cant trust for shit.
Me: You definitely look like you made it out stronger.

Her: Yeah it really developed my character. I’m 100% healed, glad it happened so I could learn. I don’t regret it, but its for that reason why I feel like God saved sex for marriage.

Me: What even is marriage though? You think God cares about the little white dress and the contract you sign at the courthouse? Adam and Eve never had that.

Her: I think sex is marriage in a sense. Thats Gods contract.

Me: I see. I personally think its not as black and white as that, and I think God just loves it when two people who genuinely want each other come together. Everyone’s but as long as we keep to the basic tenants

Her: Yeah, maybe.

Me : *switches topics*

---

After this conversation the vibe was 2x more sexual. She even said she’s moving into her dorm Wednesday and her parents wont be there for too long. I think I’m close to the lay.

Shes in good contention for being a GF, I still have to vet her more though.

Only thing is, I don’t want to hurt her at all. I definitely will keep her around but its obvious the sex thing will give her a huge wave of cognitive dissonance even if she enjoys it in the moment.

Plus I know LMR will probably be huge.

What do I do?

Since you asked my opinion, quite frankly, I think it's time to give this girl a kiss and send her on her way.

If she's relatively inexperienced (with only one guy before you, that ended with him cheating) and she's now deep in religion, chances are you're really going to break all the china on your way out.

My point of view with sex and seduction is that a woman has to have a fairly clear idea of who I am and what my intentions are, so that if she wants to come with me she can make that choice for herself (and women are quite capable of making those decisions). That doesn't mean I'm laying out all the details, but if I just want to get laid I'm not going to be talking about relationships with her, and certainly won't be arguing with any beliefs she has about why she shouldn't be doing it.

Even if you are open to a relationship with this girl, the chances that you are going to end up aligned when your fundamental spiritual beliefs don't match is very low. The investment you'd be making in sex are already wildly different - at the end you'll just be thinking 'hm do I like the way this girl moans and feels like in bed enough to see her again' and she's thinking 'I just sinned grievously, this'd better get all the way to marriage'.

Finally I personally believe that what harms a person the most is when they betray their own identity. It doesn't matter whether she truly believes in religion or not, the reality is that it is a big piece of the foundation of how she sees herself, how she wants others to see her, and how she goes about navigating her life. If she's disconnected abruptly from that, she's going to suffer for it.

As seducers we want to use our understanding of women to create an experience for her that she looks back on with pleasant and wistful memories. That's how I see things.

 

[gameboy]

Well Will_V already phrased it muc better than I could. My 2 cents: Unless you're really planning to marry this girl and be with no other for the rest of your life, your're gonna hurt her if you do it. A lot.

 

[KJ Francis]

Hey Kaida, how did you wind things down with this girl? To play Lucifer's advocate for a second, do you think her emotion was genuine when she talked about stabbing God in the back?

Chase does have an article about not taking what girls say at face value. To be honest, my first thought was she heard you say your parents are ministers and bells started playing in her head like HUSBAND ALERT.

That's ASD on steroids, no? Reputation management x1000

I do agree with Will if she is actually a believer to that level, you will fuck her up. But would you be surprised if you discovered she met a hardcore fuckboy with zero boyfriend potential and spent a night with him then ditched him? You'd probably never find out... Don't girls take some of their hookups tight lipped to the grave?

I don't think you are anywhere near mate "satisfiscing" as Chase has written about. It is clear that the Legend of King Kaida is still unravelling and will be an epic tale.

But I was thinking about this because I do have a virgin friend of over a year now who had only ever come over to get naked and make out. She once licked my cock a bit but didn't want me to watch. It was fascinating. Once she jacked me off and I came all over her tits lol I sometimes just put a condom on and "dry hump" to get off. But I usually do sperm retention and fuck a few girls in a week, but only cum once. So I actually just enjoy the affection.

I do things differently with her though... I go absolutely full fuckboy in the stories I tell her, but I put no pressure on her. The result is that she comes over and cooks. She is a tiny little Asian girl and bought me a couple nice plants as well.

It's innocent fun:

Her: I think I'm not a virgin anymore, there was small amount of blood before I took a shower, now there's nothing at all, that 2 finger did it

Me: So that's good! Maybe smooth sailing from here. Less pain, more pleasure. I didn't get a hickie...

Her: No, I think I'm still a virgin, that's just my period starting,. I'll give you a hickie next time, I'll make spring rolls.

...

Few days ago... Her: I go there cause I feel so different, you're like my escape from the pressure that I put myself into.

Last night... Her: I miss you, can I come tomorrow? I'll bring spring roll.

...

I was her second ever kiss and she always teases me about "your girls". Last time she was over she asked to read Nancy Friday with me.

So I'd say if you like this girl a lot, maybe show her your true self a bit and make it a secret bubble.

I actually got interrupted while writing this by a married good-girl coworker because I eye fuck her and give her incidental touches. Earlier today:

"Good morning. I brought some leftover pasta for you if you are interested for your lunch". And she leaves me homemade baked goods waiting for me at my desk once a week.

I know this sounds like bragging but you are VERY clearly in the "genuine man" category if you are familiar with that article. There is a whole nother world available to you by exploring this route in my opinion.

 

[Kaida]

Hey Kaida, how did you wind things down with this girl? To play Lucifer's advocate for a second, do you think her emotion was genuine when she talked about stabbing God in the back?

I do genuinely think she believed what she said. Her frame was strong.

Do I think if I got her incredibly horny and escalated with expert smoothness she would want to fuck? Yes. Would she likely regret it after even if I take good care of her feelings? Yes.

I don’t believe I’d break her if I fuck her and it doesn’t go well though. She has a strong mindset of “its my decision, I take responsibility, I wont hate myself for making a bad decision”. Shes a surprisingly strong girl for one that is so feminine.

Her last boyfriend and her only body from what I heard is a bad boy who makes money scamming. He cheated on her multiple times and she went back. She got a call at 5am from his other girlfriend letting her know the real and that’s when she ended it.

She expressed disgust/indifference about him when we talked about it deeper (not anger or bitterness that might suggest unresolved feelings) so I didn’t take that as a sign she might be damaged. But it DOES suggest that she loves sex with bad boys.

Chase does have an article about not taking what girls say at face value. To be honest, my first thought was she heard you say your parents are ministers and bells started playing in her head like HUSBAND ALERT.

Eh, my parents are not me though. She can obviously tell I’m different. I’ve openly talked about fucking other girls and she just laughs and starts touching me.

Now that I write that sentence it sounds like it was very likely possible. I just went about my process all wrong .

But like I said before she likely would have regretted it after.

But would you be surprised if you discovered she met a hardcore fuckboy with zero boyfriend potential and spent a night with him then ditched him? You'd probably never find out... Don't girls take some of their hookups tight lipped to the grave?

From the vibe we had I doubt it. Shes probably messed around with a few guys with no penetration. Maybe I’m being naive tho.

I do things differently with her though... I go absolutely full fuckboy in the stories I tell her, but I put no pressure on her

Pretty much what I did with this girl. Only thing is I juxtaposed it with paying for dates and doing boyfriend-y stuff. I was probably 50/50 lover provider.

I don't think you are anywhere near mate "satisfiscing" as Chase has written about.

Could you explain please?

It is clear that the Legend of King Kaida is still unravelling and will be an epic tale.

Haha thanks man

I know this sounds like bragging but you are VERY clearly in the "genuine man" category if you are familiar with that article. There is a whole nother world available to you by exploring this route in my opinion.

Understood. I think this girl is one of the ones I’ve been most genuine with. We were so brutally honest with each other. She was telling me her “hoe stories” (she led multiple guys on at once for the attention) and was very open and exposed herself about a couple things.

I’m gonna try and spin back to her once I’m back at my hometown, but even if I dont bag this girl this taught me a lot about myself what I eventually want in a girlfriend./ wife.

Regardless of outcome I have learned something. And I’m grateful.

 

[KJ Francis]

Ohhh this one's at home. Ok. Sounds like you've thought it through real well and were pretty genuine with each other, so you probably have the right intuition that she was not simply putting up a face as her best shot to lock you down.

Even if you are the bad boy, she might see you as a guy who was brought up well and deep down has a heart of gold, and sees your family as one compatible with hers.

Here's the article on satisfiscing.

Satisficing and Seduction; or, Why You Probably Won't be a Bachelor Forever

I’m going to wade back into theory on this one, a la “Picking Up Girls and the Game of Asymmetric Returns.” Only this time, we’ll be looking at the end game of picking up, instead of the middle game. Worth noting that some of the examples in this article are as well inspired by Nassim Taleb’s...

www.girlschase.com

Basically you don't want to commit to the best you can get now if your skill level has potential for further improvement.