10 Lays From 1000 Approaches

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

i have asperger but i have a legit male model face.

when i go clubbing i get approached all the time.

I have literally been approached 1000s of times but from that only have like 10-12 lays.

most of the time when girls approach me they will say:

"you look bored"

"why are you not dancing?"

"are you ok?"

usually i have no idea how to respond to statements like that so i just ignore them and they walk away.

the girls i have managed to fuck where girls who approached me with basically blatant sexual intentions like i have literally had 2-3 girls walk up to me and ask me what im doing after the club and then asking to come home with me. and i have also had public sex with girls who approached and just basically initiated sexual touch themselves. i have even had a few girls who literally walked up to me in the club, grabbed me and started literally pulling me outside.

But again these are very rare so i cannot rely on these extremely upfront girls to get laid; i need to figure out why im not fucking the other 99.9% of girls who approach me in the nightlife using the statements above.

 

[Echoes]

I mean, you said you walk away usually. Maybe just follow those up with "I was waiting for something interesting to come my way. Is that you?" You can probably cut the question part if you are able to deliver it in a sexy, playful way, not sure how much the aspergers interrupts that. I have a good friend with it, he's mostly able to operate, but there's a noticeably lower emotional response to his facial expressions. Maybe studying James Bonds would let you "logic" your way to the expressions?

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

I mean, you said you walk away usually.

i don't walk away. i just ignore them. im usually stationary when they come up to me so they end up walking away after i ignore them.

i ignore them because to me it's almost like they are asking me to qualify myself by the way they are approaching me.

i dont think i have ever fucked any of these girls who come up to me with a "why are you not dancing?" type opener so to me its like a waste of time to even acknowledge them since im like 0 for 300 n girls coming up to me in the nightlife with an opener like that.

I have a good friend with it, he's mostly able to operate,

does this guy get laid a lot?

if yes, from what style of game? daygame? nightgame?

also, is he good looking or he gets laid from his actual seduction skills?

Maybe studying James Bonds would let you "logic" your way to the expressions?

what do you mean by this?

you think im not fucking girls who come up to me at night because of my facial expressions?

my thinking was that im not getting laid because im unable to understand the non verbal signals these girls are giving me which is why i only fuck the girls who are so sexually blatant and obvious that even someone like me can understand what they want.

 

[Echoes]

Ah, misread, but still just invite them to invest more into you, since they've already started. He's had a girlfriend the entire time I've known him, neither are attractive, but he has a solid personality, just that lack of picking up on subtle nonverbals. Not sure whether or not you have your fundamentals down, I know things like Asperger's usually come with not being as aware of others' expressions or how to communicate with your own expressions, so was assuming. If nothing else, just assume interest and be playful, but relaxed. I've had very few girls approach me and I'm decent looking, so you should definitely take advantage of that.

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Not sure whether or not you have your fundamentals down,

what is your definition of "fundamentals"?

 

[Echoes]

Here's a good primer: https://www.girlschase.com/content/if-you-want-do-well-girls-fundamentals-are-everything

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Here's a good primer: https://www.girlschase.com/content/if-you-want-do-well-girls-fundamentals-are-everything

honestly, i usually ignore all articles not written by chase as he is the only person who writes things on girlschase that have ever helped me over the years but i will keep an open mind and have a look at this. thank you for sending.

 

[Echoes]

Sure thing, I've gotten a lot from Alek and Hector. Others as well, but mostly Chase and those two.

 

[Chase]

@rr2021,

A lot of the old school seducers used routine stacks.

I’ve had several friends who were skilled natural gamers, already getting a lot of success with girls, then switched to routine-based stacks and their results just exploded. It makes the game predictable to the point the friends I’ve had running unchanging routine stacks eventually get tired of it because getting laid stops being a fun adventure and instead becomes just this repetitive, predictable thing.

I’m pretty bad with repetitive rote / repetition-type stuff, so you won’t hear me talk about it much, but if you have Asperger’s it’d probably be right up your alley.

If you’re getting approached a lot, I’d start with putting together a routine stack for responding when girls approach. A routine stack is just like

Open —> Banter —> Screen —> Quality —> Compliance —> Banter —> Touch —> Move, etc.

You still need good fundamentals but if you’re very good-looking you’ve already got at least part of those covered. If you have Asperger’s you may need to focus a bit on emotional expressiveness, relaxed non-stiff body language, making sure you’ve eliminated tics, etc.

If I was you, I would work on setting up that initial routine stack to hook in girls who approached me, then start field-testing it. Any points you get a lot of girls dropping off at, tweak your stack and re-test.

There’s not much left on the web about routine stacks, but they still work. A few examples here:

My first routine stack - PUA Forum

Dallas PUA • View topic - How to do a Routine Stack - Example: Captain Jack

Dallas PUA, The Pick-Up Artist Playground

www.dallaspua.com

If you can get a copy of an old Mystery Method handbook or video course, it may help a lot. Swinggcat’s Real World Seduction can be used to build a routine stack. @Karea Ricardus D. swears by Captain Jack (CJ), although I don’t believe his material is still available online.

Alek’s stuff is stackable, and he has a lot of routines (gambits) that stretch from the opener all the way up to the close. But I know you said you don’t read him.

If you’re most familiar with my material, that’s technically stackable too. Deep diving is a routine, as is chase framing.

I can tell you one of the big things with girls approaching you is they are often very nervous, really afraid of rejection, and unless you pull them in and get them comfortable and make them feel good about making the approach right away, most of them will skitter off. So any stack you build needs to be focused on pulling the girl in immediately.

e.g.:

HER: (opens you)​

​

YOU: Ah, yeah, you know, this place. [shrug] That’s a really nice [some article of clothing]. Where’d you get that?​

​

HER: Oh blah blah.​

​

YOU: I like your fashion sense. You’ve got good taste in men too, obviously. [flirtatious tone, point to self]​

​

HER: Oh no, haha, I just [trying to play it down]​

​

YOU: Yeah, that’s good, cause you know we would never work, right? [mischievous smile] I’m already picking up on it.​

​

HER: What do you mean?​

​

YOU: Well, I mean, you’re pretty confident, right? Confident enough to come up and talk to a good-looking guy like me. [self point with flirtatious tone / expressions] And maybe I look a little quiet now, but I’ve actually got my own quiet confidence too. And if you take two confident people and put them together… I don’t know, there’s probably like a law against that or something.​

​

HER: [laughs]​

​

YOU: So anyway, where’re you from?​

​

HER: [answers]​

​

YOU: Oh yeah? That’s great. Well how’d you end up here? [starting a deep dive] Actually hey, move over here so you don’t get trampled. [move her]​

Make sure you’re locked in, but also that she’s not totally hanging out in space feeling exposed. Then deep dive a bit, screen/quality her, chase frame, escalate touch, etc. Move her to sit after 10 minutes of chatting (or to a quieter part of the venue if nowhere to sit). Continue the deep dive, chase frame, touch escalation. Seed your later pulls. Bounce her to another, more intimate venue or a diner/cafe on a high point after 30-40 minutes of sitting. Or if she’s showing very strong interest, pull her home. If not strong enough, bounce to the second venue, seed the pull home for later, then after 20-30 minutes pull home. Focus on getting her comfortable, sit close to her, kiss within 10 minutes, escalate to sex, handle LMR.

There’s a rough stack. You can always fill it out more / expand on it / adjust as you field test it and adapt it to your style.

Chase

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

@rr2021,

A lot of the old school seducers used routine stacks.

I’ve had several friends who were skilled natural gamers, already getting a lot of success with girls, then switched to routine-based stacks and their results just exploded. It makes the game predictable to the point the friends I’ve had running unchanging routine stacks eventually get tired of it because getting laid stops being a fun adventure and instead becomes just this repetitive, predictable thing.

I’m pretty bad with repetitive rote / repetition-type stuff, so you won’t hear me talk about it much, but if you have Asperger’s it’d probably be right up your alley.

If you’re getting approached a lot, I’d start with putting together a routine stack for responding when girls approach. A routine stack is just like

Open —> Banter —> Screen —> Quality —> Compliance —> Banter —> Touch —> Move, etc.

You still need good fundamentals but if you’re very good-looking you’ve already got at least part of those covered. If you have Asperger’s you may need to focus a bit on emotional expressiveness, relaxed non-stiff body language, making sure you’ve eliminated tics, etc.

If I was you, I would work on setting up that initial routine stack to hook in girls who approached me, then start field-testing it. Any points you get a lot of girls dropping off at, tweak your stack and re-test.

There’s not much left on the web about routine stacks, but they still work. A few examples here:

My first routine stack - PUA Forum

Dallas PUA • View topic - How to do a Routine Stack - Example: Captain Jack

Dallas PUA, The Pick-Up Artist Playground

www.dallaspua.com

If you can get a copy of an old Mystery Method handbook or video course, it may help a lot. Swinggcat’s Real World Seduction can be used to build a routine stack. @Karea Ricardus D. swears by Captain Jack (CJ), although I don’t believe his material is still available online.

Alek’s stuff is stackable, and he has a lot of routines (gambits) that stretch from the opener all the way up to the close. But I know you said you don’t read him.

If you’re most familiar with my material, that’s technically stackable too. Deep diving is a routine, as is chase framing.

I can tell you one of the big things with girls approaching you is they are often very nervous, really afraid of rejection, and unless you pull them in and get them comfortable and make them feel good about making the approach right away, most of them will skitter off. So any stack you build needs to be focused on pulling the girl in immediately.

e.g.:

HER: (opens you)​

​

YOU: Ah, yeah, you know, this place. [shrug] That’s a really nice [some article of clothing]. Where’d you get that?​

​

HER: Oh blah blah.​

​

YOU: I like your fashion sense. You’ve got good taste in men too, obviously. [flirtatious tone, point to self]​

​

HER: Oh no, haha, I just [trying to play it down]​

​

YOU: Yeah, that’s good, cause you know we would never work, right? [mischievous smile] I’m already picking up on it.​

​

HER: What do you mean?​

​

YOU: Well, I mean, you’re pretty confident, right? Confident enough to come up and talk to a good-looking guy like me. [self point with flirtatious tone / expressions] And maybe I look a little quiet now, but I’ve actually got my own quiet confidence too. And if you take two confident people and put them together… I don’t know, there’s probably like a law against that or something.​

​

HER: [laughs]​

​

YOU: So anyway, where’re you from?​

​

HER: [answers]​

​

YOU: Oh yeah? That’s great. Well how’d you end up here? [starting a deep dive] Actually hey, move over here so you don’t get trampled. [move her]​

Make sure you’re locked in, but also that she’s not totally hanging out in space feeling exposed. Then deep dive a bit, screen/quality her, chase frame, escalate touch, etc. Move her to sit after 10 minutes of chatting (or to a quieter part of the venue if nowhere to sit). Continue the deep dive, chase frame, touch escalation. Seed your later pulls. Bounce her to another, more intimate venue or a diner/cafe on a high point after 30-40 minutes of sitting. Or if she’s showing very strong interest, pull her home. If not strong enough, bounce to the second venue, seed the pull home for later, then after 20-30 minutes pull home. Focus on getting her comfortable, sit close to her, kiss within 10 minutes, escalate to sex, handle LMR.

There’s a rough stack. You can always fill it out more / expand on it / adjust as you field test it and adapt it to your style.

Chase

wow was not expecting a reply directly form you.

thank you.

honestly, i have looked into every style of game in the last 10 years.

its funny you mention captain jack because not only was i coached directly by him for a while but we actually became friends chatting almost daily during a period of 6-12 months.

i have also worked directly with gunwitch, daniel adebayo and Cody Lyans and looking back if im honest it was all a massive waste of time and money as none of that made any improvement to my sex life.

I'm not sure if its because of asperger but Alek for example with all the "sex talk" stuff might as well be speaking chinese because nothing he says with that style makes any sense to me.

I also HATE any style that focuses on talking. all my lays have very minimal talking. and it seems the more i have to talk the worst i do. this is actually why i avoid bars and prefer nightclubs.

your girlschase articles + 60 years of challenge stuff is the only resources i have found that actually helped in more then 10 years in this community.

these are 4 of my favorite/most helpful articles by you:

How to Tell if a Girl is Horny Without Her Having to Tell You

One of the things that it seems like a lot of guys have difficulty realizing is when women actually want them. Chances are, you've heard some of the conventional ways on figuring out if a girl is horny. Some of them are: Check her heart rate Check her breathing rate -- the faster she's...

www.girlschase.com

7 Approach Invitations You’ll Get from Girls

You stand there, somewhere that you often go, when, out of the corner of your eye, you notice her: a sexy girl in a red, skimpy dress. Man, I'd love to talk to HER, you think to yourself... but can't think of a way you might go talk to her, or what you might say. Plus, she's all the way over...

www.girlschase.com

Awareness Radius: Get Noticed, Reward/Punish, and More

There’s a forceful concept we haven’t touched on a great deal on Girls Chase before, and that’s awareness radius. We’ve discussed it a bit in the articles on the bored look and the skeptical look, and we’ve mentioned it as ‘extinction’ in the one on operant conditioning. However, we’ve not...

www.girlschase.com

Women Want Your Attention

Everybody likes attention. Yet with women, attention is more than a means to an end – getting your attention is very often the end itself. Women will tell you they want a lot of things. But there’s one thing women want from you above and beyond all else: your attention. They can want this...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Chase]

Ah, well.

There's the rub then, eh?

Because this:

most of the time when girls approach me they will say:

"you look bored"

"why are you not dancing?"

"are you ok?"

usually i have no idea how to respond to statements like that so i just ignore them and they walk away.

...

But again these are very rare so i cannot rely on these extremely upfront girls to get laid; i need to figure out why im not fucking the other 99.9% of girls who approach me in the nightlife using the statements above.

Is the direct result of this:

I also HATE any style that focuses on talking. all my lays have very minimal talking. and it seems the more i have to talk the worst i do. this is actually why i avoid bars and prefer nightclubs.

Plus this:

I can tell you one of the big things with girls approaching you is they are often very nervous, really afraid of rejection, and unless you pull them in and get them comfortable and make them feel good about making the approach right away, most of them will skitter off.

The girls you are getting are the ones who are the rare exceptions to that -- they do not need you to make them comfortable; they are already comfortable.

IOW:

• Most girls: will make the initial approach, but are tentative/scared/skittish, and need you to take the lead and properly seduce them from there
  
  
• Randy girls: already ready to go and basically just need you to escalate. Shortcut most of the connecting/bonding/screening/qualifying/trust-building that most girls require for sex. These girls need much less of it or none

You've attuned yourself to the girls who are "looking for it" and learned to not miss the escalation windows these girls give you and give them what they're after.

Most girls are not in that place though, and need a lot more trust/connection-building before they reach it. That is usually going to have to be verbal. You can try to minimize the amount of talking you do and get the girl doing a lot more of it, e.g., by deep diving, eliciting values, etc. But that is probably going to still be more verbally demanding than you want.

Most girls approaching you, even though they are the ones making the approach, still need you to do this with them:

(right now you are just getting the girls who are all the way at the red-hot far right of the spectrum, which is only a small percentage of the girls who approach)

I guess you could try to plan out a nonverbal routine for girls who approach. e.g.:

HER: How come you're not dancing?​

​

YOU: [charming smile. Shrug. Nod your head to the space next to you and gesture for her to come over near you]​

​

[if she does, take her hand and squeeze it approvingly]​

Then you're at least bringing more girls into your funnel, probably a handful of whom (the most interested of the ones you otherwise would've lost) will be encouraged enough to stick around and help you through the seduction.

You'll still lose most of the ones who sidle up next to you, because most of them are not showing up ready to do most of the work (they made the approach, but they're not sure, and still need the man to take them through the usual courtship sequence).

Should get you a few more of the girls you otherwise would've lost due to them not getting enough feedback/assistance/seduction from you and ejecting.

Chase

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Most girls approaching you, even though they are the ones making the approach, still need you to do this with them:

do you think something like this could work as a way to get laid using my strengths and minimizing my weaknesses...

Her: approaches me and says whatever

Me: look at her for 1-2 sec like i'm deciding if she is hot enough to engage with

Me: give facial expression like i just notice she is hot/my type

Me: "do you want to dance"

Her: yes

Me: take her to dance floor and execute aggressive dancer strategy you explain here: https://www.girlschase.com/content/tactics-tuesdays-dance-floor-game

do you think something like this can work with girls who approach me?

again, the more i talk the worst i do.

even outside nightclubs when i was living at the university i only got laid with very very minimal talking before the sex

i literally have never got laid after talking a lot to the girl before.

so the above gameplan would be to ignore whatever girls say to me when they approach, ask the ones im attracted to if they want to dance and then use your aggressive dancfloor strategy.

so almost no talking at all from start to finish.

thoughts on this?

 

[Chase]

I'd say it's worth field-testing.

Again, this is a low-odds strategy.

You are basically skipping normal seduction, which requires verbals, but you're essentially dealing with a handicap there. So it makes sense in your case to do.

That said, even just adding a little extra seduction in there like this should (well, in theory) up your odds to some degree. Especially since they are approaching you, then you are taking the lead -- which is what at least some of them are going to want.

Won't know for sure until you field-test it, of course.

Chase

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Again, this is a low-odds strategy.

where do you expect the funnel to fail with this strategy?

meaning, where would you expect i will lost the girls most often with such a strategy?

do you think most girls will say no to dance?

or maybe you think i will lose a lot of girls when i try to escalate during the dance?

where exactly do you expect the funnel to fail the most?

please keep in mind that i purposely ONLY go to big, loud nightclubs with large dancefloor.

You are basically skipping normal seduction, which requires verbals

yeah verbal game just has never made any sense to me.

if i was ever going to able to make verbal game work then i would have by now after 10 years in the clubs.

Especially since they are approaching you,

yeah exactly.

there is no way i should be closing 1 in 100 on girls approaching me even with Asperger.

there has to be a way i can significantly reduce that ration even if i hate talking.

Won't know for sure until you field-test it, of course.

yeah im planning to test during summer since the strategy requires public sex and no way to do that when its freezing cold right now.

 

[Chase]

where do you expect the funnel to fail with this strategy?

meaning, where would you expect i will lost the girls most often with such a strategy?

do you think most girls will say no to dance?

or maybe you think i will lose a lot of girls when i try to escalate during the dance?

where exactly do you expect the funnel to fail the most?

please keep in mind that i purposely ONLY go to big, loud nightclubs with large dancefloor.

yeah verbal game just has never made any sense to me.

if i was ever going to able to make verbal game work then i would have by now after 10 years in the clubs.

It'll fail all along throughout the funnel.

You will get:

• Girls who say "no" because that wasn't what they wanted (they wanted to be verbally seduced)
• Girls who didn't really want that but agree, then bail after one song because it wasn't what they wanted
• Girls who decide they will give it a shot, but they aren't really feeling it yet, and without verbal seduction they still aren't so eject
• Girls who get somewhat into it, but then want to slow things down for trust-building / comfort (i.e., verbal seduction) -- you will lose these
• Girls who get into it, get a bit carried away, then realize they don't know you / have no connection with you, and eject

But, sometimes, you will get girls who go along with it, and either were already ready to go, and others who let themselves get carried away with the escalation and seduced.

It is still not going to be a high percentage. I wouldn't get my hopes up that this will totally change the game for you or anything that extreme.

But it will probably help you get a few of the girls you'd otherwise have lost.

Chase

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

It'll fail all along throughout the funnel.

You will get:

• Girls who say "no" because that wasn't what they wanted (they wanted to be verbally seduced)
• Girls who didn't really want that but agree, then bail after one song because it wasn't what they wanted
• Girls who decide they will give it a shot, but they aren't really feeling it yet, and without verbal seduction they still aren't so eject
• Girls who get somewhat into it, but then want to slow things down for trust-building / comfort (i.e., verbal seduction) -- you will lose these
• Girls who get into it, get a bit carried away, then realize they don't know you / have no connection with you, and eject

But, sometimes, you will get girls who go along with it, and either were already ready to go, and others who let themselves get carried away with the escalation and seduced.

It is still not going to be a high percentage. I wouldn't get my hopes up that this will totally change the game for you or anything that extreme.

But it will probably help you get a few of the girls you'd otherwise have lost.

Chase

so it seems even in loud nightclubs with big dancefloor you still think girls expect to be seduced verbally?

remember i specifically only go to such venues because i know i do not like to talk.

i always assumed guys getting laid a lot in these environments was mostly non verbal/dancefloor game.

but it seems you are saying even in such environments its verbal game that works best?

are you sure about this?

also, are you familiar with aaron sleazy, i read his "sleazy stories" book but could not tell if he was lying or not but almost all his lays in those stories where just non verbal/dancefloor super fast stuff.

either way im excited to test this style when the weather warms up.

 

[Chase]

If they're approaching you with verbal openers they are normally going to be looking for verbal seduction.

If they're grinding up against you on the dance floor or giving you dizzy drunk girl dances from a crowd of people, maybe not.

Girls approaching vs. girls you approach are very different. Most girls who are horny are NOT approaching... they are putting signals out and waiting for men to take them. Girls want to be taken. The vast majority do not want to pursue. Talented nonverbal seducers are expert at picking out girls who are looking for it and making the approach in a smooth way.

When you're getting girls approaching, most of them will be doing it very consciously, overcoming their nerves, looking for you to put them at ease. Unless they are completely uninhibited -- drunk, on drugs, or that rare 1% of girls who are very aggressive go-getter types -- they will not be approaching because they are DTF just needing you to escalate.

The down-to-fuck girl who just needs a guy to escalate on her almost never needs to approach. If you know what to look for, you can stand in a nightclub and look for these girls, and notice they are only free for about two minutes before some guy is all over them. If you can't approach a DTF girl within 2 minutes of her being free, or often less, some other guy will get her. Most of the time there are enough guys with enough instincts around that there will always be someone to jump on the DTF girl. In the rare instance where for whatever reason there are no horny guys with balls and instincts to jump on those girls, they may seek out a guy themselves -- but it's pretty rare. 99% of the time a guy is going to scoop them up before they ever need to seek one out.

I know Sleazy, we've hung out, and I know various guys who've gamed with him. He's legit. He's an example of a guy who is good at recognizing DTF girls and making the approach to scoop them up before someone else does, then escalating on them fast.

To put those answers in bullet point format:

• Yes, in loud dance club environments, physical nonverbal game works great/best
• The girls it works best on are the girls who are already amped up / ready to go on the dance floor
• Those girls are not approaching guys, 99%+ of the time. Instead they put out signals and get approached
• Only in rare instances do DTF girls approach -- those rare times when NO acceptable guys notice their signals & approach
• Most girls approaching are only doing so after overcoming their nerves and are not ready for rapid physical escalation

If you want a more reliable approach for that environment, I would focus on:

• Learning to recognize the signs a girl is DTF
• Attuning your radar for lone wolf DTF girls so you pick up on them as soon as they're free
• Getting good at dance floor approaches on such girls

... rather than waiting for girls to approach you (will not usually be DTF girls).

Chase

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

If they're approaching you with verbal openers they are normally going to be looking for verbal seduction.

If they're grinding up against you on the dance floor or giving you dizzy drunk girl dances from a crowd of people, maybe not.

Girls approaching vs. girls you approach are very different. Most girls who are horny are NOT approaching... they are putting signals out and waiting for men to take them. Girls want to be taken. The vast majority do not want to pursue. Talented nonverbal seducers are expert at picking out girls who are looking for it and making the approach in a smooth way.

When you're getting girls approaching, most of them will be doing it very consciously, overcoming their nerves, looking for you to put them at ease. Unless they are completely uninhibited -- drunk, on drugs, or that rare 1% of girls who are very aggressive go-getter types -- they will not be approaching because they are DTF just needing you to escalate.

The down-to-fuck girl who just needs a guy to escalate on her almost never needs to approach. If you know what to look for, you can stand in a nightclub and look for these girls, and notice they are only free for about two minutes before some guy is all over them. If you can't approach a DTF girl within 2 minutes of her being free, or often less, some other guy will get her. Most of the time there are enough guys with enough instincts around that there will always be someone to jump on the DTF girl. In the rare instance where for whatever reason there are no horny guys with balls and instincts to jump on those girls, they may seek out a guy themselves -- but it's pretty rare. 99% of the time a guy is going to scoop them up before they ever need to seek one out.

I know Sleazy, we've hung out, and I know various guys who've gamed with him. He's legit. He's an example of a guy who is good at recognizing DTF girls and making the approach to scoop them up before someone else does, then escalating on them fast.

To put those answers in bullet point format:

• Yes, in loud dance club environments, physical nonverbal game works great/best
• The girls it works best on are the girls who are already amped up / ready to go on the dance floor
• Those girls are not approaching guys, 99%+ of the time. Instead they put out signals and get approached
• Only in rare instances do DTF girls approach -- those rare times when NO acceptable guys notice their signals & approach
• Most girls approaching are only doing so after overcoming their nerves and are not ready for rapid physical escalation

If you want a more reliable approach for that environment, I would focus on:

• Learning to recognize the signs a girl is DTF
• Attuning your radar for lone wolf DTF girls so you pick up on them as soon as they're free
• Getting good at dance floor approaches on such girls

... rather than waiting for girls to approach you (will not usually be DTF girls).

Chase

holy shiet.

thank you man.

this makes a lot of sense and actually matches my experience a lot.

never thought about until now but you are right the DTF girls who i have managed to fuck are definitely not the same vibe as what i usually get approaching me.

in 10 years never til now hit me that most of these girls approaching me are definitely doing it consciously and NOT the kind unconscious trance like state the DTF girls are in.

fuck that makes my situation worst then because now i see why you said my idea of asking to dance was NOT going to be a game changer.

a question for you that i have always wondered.

one weird thing i get pretty often is a girl will just bump into me pretty violently as she is walking by.

like hard enough that if a guy did that it would be a fight.

at first i thought just accidental but i get girls doing this a lot so it seems to be some sign.

are these girls more on the DTF side, more on the need verbal game side or neither and maybe they just think im an asshole and are rudely bumping into me?

also, please know i NEVER post up on the dancefloor since my biggest advantage is my looks so i need to be seen.

so i always find a high traffic spot where i can clearly be seen as people walk by.

I have tested just standing on the dancefloor but never worked, never get approached, never even seem to be noticed, i think its just weird to stand on the dancefloor not dancing.

also, do you agree that the girls who open me with things like "why are you not dancing?" , "you look bored", etc... do you agree that these girls are trying to put me in a frame where i need to qualify/explain myself to them?....do you agree with this?....thats why i always just ignore them because to me it's like they are trying to put me in a negative position from the start.....but again im terrible i understanding these things so i might be completely off with my understanding

thanks again.

 

[Chase]

Sure, man. Glad it’s helpful.

Re: girls bumping into you violently, IME in nightclubs there is a trio of potential reasons for this. In descending order from most to least often encountered, at least for me:

1. She is just really drunk and not paying attention at all to where she’s going (girls are clumsier / less aware, and also don’t need to be as careful as guys because no one’s going to fight them over it)
   
   
2. She is in a bad mood and is abusing her “girl privilege” to actively be nasty to people by crashing into them (if you start opening these girls, you will find some of them immediately get in your face, spoiling for a fight. Just like an asshole dude bumping into you hard)
   
   
3. She is into you and trying hard to get your attention — in that case yes, she will be more DTF, which is why she is using forceful physicality to open you rather than a verbal opener or a more tentative physical one

If you want a default for those, I would just smile and say, “Hey!” and if she responds positively then try your physical escalation. If she’s confused or nasty, obviously, just raise your hands in a “Whoa! Don’t shoot!” kind of way, give a bemused smile, and exit.

Re: girls’ openers… yeah, a lot of girls opening you will use openers that frame you in a negative light. This is not because they are trying to tool you or even test you on the opener though. It is because the vast majority of girls are terrible at opening.

When I was a newbie seducer, I used to open girls with stuff like this too. “God, you look so BORED!” etc. Eventually I figured out I was getting worse reactions to those than other openers and that girls probably didn’t like being framed negatively. Probably had to use that 40+ times before it clicked though. Most girls are not making enough approaches to reach the point where it has clicked for them yet that they need smoother openers than the ones they are using.

That’s why I recommended responding with a smile and a shrug and, “Ah, you know, this place…” to deflect the opener’s frame off to the venue. Then change topics by commenting on the girl. That way you are taking control of the frame, rather than letting her dumb, unpolished rookie opener death spiral you.

Chase

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

She is just really drunk and not paying attention at all to where she’s going (girls are clumsier / less aware, and also don’t need to be as careful as guys because no one’s going to fight them over it)

we can rule this one out.

it's definitely not drunk girls doing this.

and i have actually had this a lot earlier in the night or even sometimes when walking on the street.

and they also do it in situations where there is tons of space and they have no reason to even be close to me.

She is in a bad mood and is abusing her “girl privilege” to actively be nasty to people by crashing into them (if you start opening these girls, you will find some of them immediately get in your face, spoiling for a fight. Just like an asshole dude bumping into you hard)

yeah this matches my experience and a significant portion of them have to be this.

but i suspect even these angry girls might also be horny.

not specifically horny for me but just horny in general.

maybe sexually frustrated?

1. She is into you and trying hard to get your attention — in that case yes, she will be more DTF, which is why she is using forceful physicality to open you rather than a verbal opener or a more tentative physical one

If you want a default for those, I would just smile and say, “Hey!” and if she responds positively then try your physical escalation. If she’s confused or nasty, obviously, just raise your hands in a “Whoa! Don’t shoot!” kind of way, give a bemused smile, and exit.

i will try this and report.

but honestly, i find it a kin of disrespectful move and suspect girls doing these things are toxic/dangerous.

and sometimes it can be too much.

once this (hot) girl bumped into me while holding a drink and some of it spilled on me.

i kind of lost it.

walked after her, grabbed her hand from behind and turned her so we where face to me.

me: wtf are you doing, you just spilled your drink on me?

her: suprised/shy look + "sorry"

me" "fucking idiot" + walk away

so yeah sometimes it can be too much and i feel disrespected

again, im not exaggerating, they do it hard enough that if a guy did that its 100% a fight

i have even had situations where a girl would do that and other random people around would notice and be like "wtf, do you know her?"

so it's very weird move by girls.

but i will try what you proposed and report back.

thanks again for your help.