10 Ways to improve SMV for better daygame interactions

[isildur1]

https://mindful-masculinity.org/202...improve-smv-for-better-day-game-interactions/

For young people entering the sexual market place improving SMV is a tough task even at the best of times that’s why I wrote this guide to how to improve men’s sexual market place value so that men can improve their results. One glaring problem when I started out was my lack of life experience really showed as I had nothing to talk about . I was literally one of the most boring human beings on the planet at the time, why was this? Partly because I didn’t value education , self development and nutrition but also because I simply didn’t make any active effort to show maturity in my life. Something that in hyper competitive environments like London is pretty much a necessity if you want to move up in the brutal sexual market place here. You need to have some personality, you need to be dynamic to a degree because interacting with women around the world some races will require more than negs to hook.


The important thing to note is all these things do TAKE Time and lots of it. They will drain you of your mental energy- but will be worth it in the long term. Staying committed to these ideas over months and years can really enhance your day-game but will take time to implement.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Not to be rude but aren’t you the guy who claimed an approach to lay ratio of 1:50 for daygame is good? If so, I’m not sure you should be focused on teaching.

That aside, here is my opinion on your list.

“Learn a language”

If meeting a lot of tourist or approaching in a different country then yes, being able to speak their language helps.

“Get better Wingmen”

For daygame I wouldn’t even worry about wingman. Learn to meet women during the day without a crutch. it will make you way better in the long run.

“Be prepared for all forms of Social Media for the race/ethnicity of girls that you like to hook up with. Build a strong social media profile on all the various major platforms , have great pictures and continuously market yourself to the best you can be.”

No matter how good you make your profile, if she’s hot she’s friends with 500x people with better and cooler profiles. I take the opposite route and tell women I don’t have social media. This works a lot better as it helps foster a sense of mystery about you. Get out of the social media rat race and stop feeling like you have to compete on there for women. You don’t.

“Read or at least consistently listen to Audio Books.”

In principal I agree. Being well read and educated is important for being a man. For day game? It really doesn’t matter. Some of the best seducers I have ever met has like a fifth grade reading level. The random girl you meet on the street doesn’t care.

“Gain muscle”

Yes.

“Travel Lots”

Agin, something I believe all men should do but for day game it’s certainly not something that’s going to move the bar forward a lot. I probably had 40ish daygame lays before ever leaving my home state of Ohio.

“Have a type? Then plan accordingly so that your interactions with set type of women go better.”

Agree.

“Dress better.”

100% agree.

I don’t think your list is bad advice for men in general but it’s not overly helpful for the guy struggling at day game.

Learning how to recognize approach invites and how to “force them” before approaching…

How to match your energy levels with her and calibrate your style of approach as not to create a negative knee jerk reaction upon approach…

How to get her out of her head and illicit intrigue and curiosity once you approach so you can hook her in to the interaction…

How to better connect with and lead her emotions where you want then to go…

a million other things….

Will all dramatically improves a guys ability to seduce women during the day than this overly generic advice that’s been a going around the manosphere lately.

No wonder dudes be thinking you have to approach 50 women to get one lay.

 

[isildur1]

Not to be rude but aren’t you the guy who claimed an approach to lay ratio of 1:50 for daygame is good? If so, I’m not sure you should be focused on teaching.

That aside, here is my opinion on your list.

“Learn a language”

If meeting a lot of tourist or approaching in a different country then yes, being able to speak their language helps.

“Get better Wingmen”

For daygame I wouldn’t even worry about wingman. Learn to meet women during the day without a crutch. it will make you way better in the long run.

“Be prepared for all forms of Social Media for the race/ethnicity of girls that you like to hook up with. Build a strong social media profile on all the various major platforms , have great pictures and continuously market yourself to the best you can be.”

No matter how good you make your profile, if she’s hot she’s friends with 500x people with better and cooler profiles. I take the opposite route and tell women I don’t have social media. This works a lot better as it helps foster a sense of mystery about you. Get out of the social media rat race and stop feeling like you have to compete on there for women. You don’t.

“Read or at least consistently listen to Audio Books.”

In principal I agree. Being well read and educated is important for being a man. For day game? It really doesn’t matter. Some of the best seducers I have ever met has like a fifth grade reading level. The random girl you meet on the street doesn’t care.

“Gain muscle”

Yes.

“Travel Lots”

Agin, something I believe all men should do but for day game it’s certainly not something that’s going to move the bar forward a lot. I probably had 40ish daygame lays before ever leaving my home state of Ohio.

“Have a type? Then plan accordingly so that your interactions with set type of women go better.”

Agree.

“Dress better.”

100% agree.

I don’t think your list is bad advice for men in general but it’s not overly helpful for the guy struggling at day game.

Learning how to recognize approach invites and how to “force them” before approaching…

How to match your energy levels with her and calibrate your style of approach as not to create a negative knee jerk reaction upon approach…

How to get her out of her head and illicit intrigue and curiosity once you approach so you can hook her in to the interaction…

How to better connect with and lead her emotions where you want then to go…

a million other things….

Will all dramatically improves a guys ability to seduce women during the day than this overly generic advice that’s been a going around the manosphere lately.

No wonder dudes be thinking you have to approach 50 women to get one lay.

For daygame traveling to different locations and having experience helps conversation and hooking. I think it helps a lot - a big complaint that i get from my female friends

Learn a language? Of course that helps win rapport - I speak 5 languages and learning Chinese and Korean stopped blow outs when gaming in these countries It also reduced flakes and increased the approach to date lay - I gamed in Brazil without Portuguese and it was extremely difficult to win rapport or create conversation with those who didn't speak english

having better wingmen helps a lot - i don't agree with your assessment on that some of my best lays were as a result of the help i received from my wingmen in terms of approaching group sets and winning rapport- i've also helped get my wingmen to laid on several occasions by encouraging them to approach difficult sets- it also reduces the stress and the burden .

My "ratio" is irrelevant - out of 40 wingmen i've had 25 had similar ratios to me - roughly 10 much lower and 5 much higher- the ratios come in line with those like Paul Janka/ Tom Torero and Nick Krauser -- most likely lower in the long run but not by much - again your trying to act like a jock online mocking people's approach to lay counts- no one knows who you are or what your lay count really is, anyone can claim anything online.

anyone can claim anything on the internet- i m speaking from my experiences, im not coaching anyone i say that specifically at the beginning of my blogs , im not selling any courses , im just writing an advice blog from what helped me, traveling more, learning languages , having good wingmen - it all helps bring up smv. i think you're lying about your lay count to look cool on the internet personally as some of the stuff you write is completely wrong.

anyone can make stats up you could be lying for all we know? roughly when i do with 40 approaches i get around 4 dates and usually 2-3 of these get back to my place and one ends up being a lay . from my personal experience that's not dreadful - if you're a chad from Ohio maybe it is- again pua community is full of people who try and look cool and lie about their results so i don't really care - i've met plenty of people who act like they get laid a load then you see them in the field and they struggle to open anyone for all we know someone claiming Tom Torero or Paul Janka is shit are usually a hell of a lot worse in real life.

i met my girlfriend from daygame and have been in a relationship with her for 2 years - it's a pretty solid result for me - nothing wrong with passing on info for newbies- i've been thanked for my posts on reddit and other communities in the past too. I m not trying to shill shitty products or sell the recipe for success to anyone. If i have a shit date , lmr or a bad streak im honest about it - im not trying to look cool or talk down to people like you seem to be at all my posts?

 

[Warped Mindless]

My "ratio" is irrelevant - out of 40 wingmen i've had 25 had similar ratios to me - roughly 10 much lower and 5 much higher- the ratios come in line with those like Paul Janka/ Tom Torero and Nick Krauser

I’m sorry but the daygame.com guys suck. If you need to hire an actress for infield videos and then claim the infield video was real… well that speaks for itself.

Janka? His entire strategy is to approach as many woman as possible, have a very quick conversation, and then simply text them right back to his place. He’s a very good looking dude in a city full of unlimited women. He’s willing to play damn near a pure numbers game to get laid. Works for him so whatever but trying to extrapolate what good success looks like and is possible based on a very niche strategy of his is a flawed way to go about things.

i think you're lying about your lay count to look cool on the internet personally as some of the stuff you write is completely wrong.

I’ve never mentioned my lay count on these forums. Truth is, I don’t know what it is. Unless you go the whole “Blackdragon” route where you keep a spreadsheet of all your lays I’m not sure how you even remember (or care to even keep track) once you get past 50.

im not coaching anyone , im not selling any courses

Same. So the whole moral superiority frame of your advice being more “authentic” because you aren’t a salesmen is funny.

Look, I’m really not trying to be an ass but I’m seeing an uptick of you “redpill lite” guys coming onto the last good seduction forum in the internet and giving out mediocre advice and it doesn’t sit well with me. I’m sure you would be a hit on r/theredpill tho.

edit: I also find it odd you stole a famous professional pokers plays screen name to post under. Like, why? Lol

 

[isildur1]

I’m sorry but the daygame.com guys suck. If you need to hire an actress for infield videos and then claim the infield video was real… well that speaks for itself.

Janka? His entire strategy is to approach as many woman as possible, have a very quick conversation, and then simply text them right back to his place. He’s a very good looking dude in a city full of unlimited women. He’s willing to play damn near a pure numbers game to get laid. Works for him so whatever but trying to extrapolate what good success looks like and is possible based on a very niche strategy of his is a flawed way to go about things.



I’ve never mentioned my lay count on these forums. Truth is, I don’t know what it is. Unless you go the whole “Blackdragon” route where you keep a spreadsheet of all your lays I’m not sure how you even remember (or care to even keep track) once you get past 50.



Same. So the whole moral superiority frame of your advice being more “authentic” because you aren’t a salesmen is funny.

Look, I’m really not trying to be an ass but I’m seeing an uptick of you “redpill lite” guys coming onto the last good seduction forum in the internet and giving out mediocre advice and it doesn’t sit well with me. I’m sure you would be a hit on r/theredpill tho.

edit: I also find it odd you stole a famous professional pokers plays screen name to post under. Like, why? Lol

if you don't care about laycount then why do you keep laughing at others? you just constantly try and bring others down who try and offer advice to newbies- my blog is just a record of the daygame i've done in the cities i've done to it- and some people have said the guides are useful . If you dont like my blog then don't comment?

daygame.com had their issues of course but they give good advice i know 20-30 people who've benefited from their advice , most of Tom Torero's books are available for free now so too are the podcasts and are genuinely good for those starting out so what's your issue with them exactly?

from my experience those who criticise people's approach to lay count usually lie the most having met up with people who are "naturals" those people do the worst infield because they talk the talk but never walk the walk


Janka - he gave genuinely good advice in podcasts and interviews he also had a lot of success too and is in a happy marriage now- whats not to like? maybe he fucked up a few sets here from rushing things too quickly but name me one coach who flawlessly approaches all the times

moral superiority? you're telling me im coaching people- i posted a guide for areas to game around london off my own experiences and that was quite concise i think what i add adds value to people. You saying my approach to lay count is low? Who cares . it varies from city to city , with a lot of variance in each.

 

[Warped Mindless]

if you don't care about laycount then why do you keep laughing at others? you just constantly try and bring others down who try and offer advice to newbies- my blog is just a record of the daygame i've done in the cities i've done to it- and some people have said the guides are useful . If you dont like my blog then don't comment?

daygame.com had their issues of course but they give good advice i know 20-30 people who've benefited from their advice , most of Tom Torero's books are available for free now so too are the podcasts and are genuinely good for those starting out so what's your issue with them exactly?

from my experience those who criticise people's approach to lay count usually lie the most having met up with people who are "naturals" those people do the worst infield because they talk the talk but never walk the walk


Janka - he gave genuinely good advice in podcasts and interviews he also had a lot of success too and is in a happy marriage now- whats not to like? maybe he fucked up a few sets here from rushing things too quickly but name me one coach who flawlessly approaches all the times

moral superiority? you're telling me im coaching people- i posted a guide for areas to game around london off my own experiences and that was quite concise i think what i add adds value to people. You saying my approach to lay count is low? Who cares . it varies from city to city , with a lot of variance in each.

I’m going to articulate this so it’s very clear…

there are many guys who comes to these forms and the blog because they have a very real problem. They can’t get women and they don’t understand why it makes them feel depressed. It makes them feel worthless. It puts them in a state of emotional turmoil and pain. Some of these men even begin to question her own value and worth.

back around 2005 in 2006 I was one of these guys and I remember it clearly.

then, by pure luck, I happened upon the PUA community. I thought I had finally found the answers, and I would figure out why I could not get the kinds of women I wanted. Then I tried some advice that I read on some forms. Looking back on it now I know the advice was horrible but I didn’t know that at the time I was knew I didn’t have enough experience a reference points to know good advice from bad advice. I just knew the advice I read, seems to come from a guy who had it all figured out, and seemed really confident in what he was teaching.

I went out, and I applied his advice, and I had even worse results that I had before discovering it. after that, I was convinced that the problem had to be me after all this was a good advice so I thought.

Thankfully, I met someone soon after that sent me on the correct path and showed me what some good advice in the community actually was.

so yes, I’m an asshole who likes to point out Bad advice when I see it. Because somewhere out there on the form right now is a dude who doesn’t know good advice from bad advice. He just knows that he’s hurting and he wants to solve this very real problem. And I don’t want him to start reading a bunch of crap that’s going to set him back and make his journey takes so much longer and make him experience so much more pain because some dude have him low quality advice.

this is the last good form on the Internet that actually gives real cutting edge advice that actually works for dude to go out and apply it. so yes, I’m critical of what people post on here because I believe it is my responsibility and others who have been through this journey. It is the responsibility to to safeguard this place, and ensure that the advice given here to those guys who are experiencing this pain is good advice.

imagine a new guy reading your stuff and thinking “fuck you mean to pull some cute girl from the coffee shop I have to be well traveled, know multiple lanaguges, read a bunch of books, all on top of getting ripped and overhauling my wardrobe? And even then I’m only going to fuck like 1 outta 50??? Fuck this shit”

Imagine telling a dude he’s gotta do all that to make some basic (but attractive) chick outside a starbucks attracted to him. A chick who likely does nothing but shop and scroll tiktok 90% of her time. Lol.

 

[Swati]

https://mindful-masculinity.org/202...improve-smv-for-better-day-game-interactions/

For young people entering the sexual market place improving SMV is a tough task even at the best of times that’s why I wrote this guide to how to improve men’s sexual market place value so that men can improve their results. One glaring problem when I started out was my lack of life experience really showed as I had nothing to talk about . I was literally one of the most boring human beings on the planet at the time, why was this? Partly because I didn’t value education , self development and nutrition but also because I simply didn’t make any active effort to show maturity in my life. Something that in hyper competitive environments like London is pretty much a necessity if you want to move up in the brutal sexual market place here. You need to have some personality, you need to be dynamic to a degree because interacting with women around the world some races will require more than negs to hook.


The important thing to note is all these things do TAKE Time and lots of it. They will drain you of your mental energy- but will be worth it in the long term. Staying committed to these ideas over months and years can really enhance your day-game but will take time to implement.

are you actually sure is not 12 ways instead of 10 ?

we are sick of your shit just keep to reddit and whatever other forum you are from.

You crap isn't useful here, nor is anything we haven't heard 1000x from your fellow "ladiez" from UK

Go be an alpha man on soSauvé and reddit.

 

[bgwh]

Not to be rude but aren’t you the guy who claimed an approach to lay ratio of 1:50 for daygame is good? If so, I’m not sure you should be focused on teaching.

That aside, here is my opinion on your list.

“Learn a language”

If meeting a lot of tourist or approaching in a different country then yes, being able to speak their language helps.

“Get better Wingmen”

For daygame I wouldn’t even worry about wingman. Learn to meet women during the day without a crutch. it will make you way better in the long run.

“Be prepared for all forms of Social Media for the race/ethnicity of girls that you like to hook up with. Build a strong social media profile on all the various major platforms , have great pictures and continuously market yourself to the best you can be.”

No matter how good you make your profile, if she’s hot she’s friends with 500x people with better and cooler profiles. I take the opposite route and tell women I don’t have social media. This works a lot better as it helps foster a sense of mystery about you. Get out of the social media rat race and stop feeling like you have to compete on there for women. You don’t.

“Read or at least consistently listen to Audio Books.”

In principal I agree. Being well read and educated is important for being a man. For day game? It really doesn’t matter. Some of the best seducers I have ever met has like a fifth grade reading level. The random girl you meet on the street doesn’t care.

“Gain muscle”

Yes.

“Travel Lots”

Agin, something I believe all men should do but for day game it’s certainly not something that’s going to move the bar forward a lot. I probably had 40ish daygame lays before ever leaving my home state of Ohio.

“Have a type? Then plan accordingly so that your interactions with set type of women go better.”

Agree.

“Dress better.”

100% agree.

I don’t think your list is bad advice for men in general but it’s not overly helpful for the guy struggling at day game.

Learning how to recognize approach invites and how to “force them” before approaching…

How to match your energy levels with her and calibrate your style of approach as not to create a negative knee jerk reaction upon approach…

How to get her out of her head and illicit intrigue and curiosity once you approach so you can hook her in to the interaction…

How to better connect with and lead her emotions where you want then to go…

a million other things….

Will all dramatically improves a guys ability to seduce women during the day than this overly generic advice that’s been a going around the manosphere lately.

No wonder dudes be thinking you have to approach 50 women to get one lay.

Just for clarity, are you saying there are guys who have significantly better ratios? The reason I ask is because I've searched hard recently for anyone who claims to have a significantly better ratio, and never found one. The best I have seen is like 1 in 30 or something I think.

Or is it more that you're saying that isildur's overcomplication is unnecessary since it doesn't improve the ratio anyway? In which case I agree.

Btw, this is a genuine question, i'm not challenging you or disagreeing, I'm really curious on the topic of what's a good ratio, and can't find the answer. I've seen guys who hint at having a significantly higher ratio, but they never spell it out. And for guys who spreadsheet and keep track and spell things out, I have never seen anyone claim a significantly better ratio.

 

[isildur1]

Just for clarity, are you saying there are guys who have significantly better ratios? The reason I ask is because I've searched hard recently for anyone who claims to have a significantly better ratio, and never found one. The best I have seen is like 1 in 30 or something I think.

Or is it more that you're saying that isildur's overcomplication is unnecessary since it doesn't improve the ratio anyway? In which case I agree.

Btw, this is a genuine question, i'm not challenging you or disagreeing, I'm really curious on the topic of what's a good ratio, and can't find the answer. I've seen guys who hint at having a significantly higher ratio, but they never spell it out. And for guys who spreadsheet and keep track and spell things out, I have never seen anyone claim a significantly better ratio.

for context dating environment matters- More conservative places like Ukraine/Latvia a lot of women aren't dtf on the very first date so the approach to lay is going to be significantly higher than places like Sweden/Finland were hookup culture is more affluent

and of course with those 40/50 approaches there will be dates and rejections within those dates and the escalations too this would change too depending on where i was - for example in China the approach to lay ratio was half of what is in london - London was 1 in 45/50 china i was looking at 1 in 25 with a much higher number close to date ratio with my tinder matches 3 times higher too (same in Brazil) - obvious reasons for this being a tall rich westerner in china is advantageous by contrast in London which is full of tall, rich accomplished men being tall and accomplished too it's a more competitive market with more women that have girlfriends and a lot more tourists who are there for the short term (this can be great but also sometimes bad as maybe leads will drop off quick) Obviously the market and the competition around you affects the results - also of course the culture of the people too. Roosh V nightgamed in Ukraine for months and never got a nightgame lay- even John Anthony who lies a fuck tonne confessed that most Ukrainian women needed 4-5 dates in order to seal the deal . So whoever's giving you ratios their value and the surround culture/ socio economic situation matters a lot imo.

Also the majority of people reading this forum won't game in China so the fact that i had good stats their is a bit irrelevant as most the PUA space is on eastern Europe/ London/New York .

 

[bgwh]

for context dating environment matters- More conservative places like Ukraine/Latvia a lot of women aren't dtf on the very first date so the approach to lay is going to be significantly higher than places like Sweden/Finland were hookup culture is more affluent

and of course with those 40/50 approaches there will be dates and rejections within those dates and the escalations too this would change too depending on where i was - for example in China the approach to lay ratio was half of what is in london - London was 1 in 45/50 china i was looking at 1 in 25 with a much higher number close to date ratio with my tinder matches 3 times higher too (same in Brazil) - obvious reasons for this being a tall rich westerner in china is advantageous by contrast in London which is full of tall, rich accomplished men being tall and accomplished too it's a more competitive market with more women that have girlfriends and a lot more tourists who are there for the short term (this can be great but also sometimes bad as maybe leads will drop off quick) Obviously the market and the competition around you affects the results - also of course the culture of the people too. Roosh V nightgamed in Ukraine for months and never got a nightgame lay- even John Anthony who lies a fuck tonne confessed that most Ukrainian women needed 4-5 dates in order to seal the deal . So whoever's giving you ratios their value and the surround culture/ socio economic situation matters a lot imo.

Also the majority of people reading this forum won't game in China so the fact that i had good stats their is a bit irrelevant as most the PUA space is on eastern Europe/ London/New York .

In either case, if the top guys in the world claim 1 in 30, I can see how allowing for context it makes sense to say the range is 30-50...

I'm surprised when someone says that for example someone "only" laying 1 in 40 is proof that they are horrible just off the number alone.

Simply because I have never seen anyone claim it's possible to get much better. Now if there were guys getting 1 in 5, then I'd be like "fuck context, 1 in 40 is horrible, I don't care about the specifics, that sucks". But is there anyone getting 1 in 5 from pure daygame cold approach?

 

[isildur1]

In either case, if the top guys in the world claim 1 in 30, I can see how allowing for context it makes sense to say the range is 30-50...

I'm surprised when someone says that for example someone "only" laying 1 in 40 is proof that they are horrible just off the number alone.

Simply because I have never seen anyone claim it's possible to get much better. Now if there were guys claiming 1 in 5, then I'd be like "fuck context, 1 in 40 is horrible, I don't care about the specifics, that sucks". But is there anyone getting 1 in 5 from pure daygame cold approach?

yeah out of roughly 40 wingmen i'd say 25 or so had similar stats of one in 40-50 , 5 were really exceptional and 10 were bottom of the barrel who i never saw get laid - the bottom of barrel usually had poor dress, physically not strong , low socio economic status but most importantly seemed stuck in their heads all the time and weren't proactive enough sometimes on the autism / asperger's spectrum which i think women saw through

25 or so got decent results but again they still had good hobbies, good job and were proactive individuals and stayed in shape

top 5 i say were close to 1 in 30/25 had good looks, wealth, muscle but they backed it up with a tonne of charisma and executed their approaches very well - holding pressure and eye contact etc. but again these people still had flakes/ bad dates / lmr and drama with the girls it still wasn't all 100 percent a walk in the park.

And yeah environment matters in the context- if a PUA is hanging out mainly in Brazil it's going to be a shit tonne easier than London or Ukraine (provided there's no language barrier in the sets) A lot of daygamers spend their time in places where their smv is highest - a mate of mine saw tom torero in singapore coaching he said he wasn't too impressed with him as his only lay during the two week trip was a Filpino nanny- again an English person's approach to lay ratio will probably be a lot higher in Singapore but you are approaching a lot more socio -economical deprived women which makes it less of a challenge maybe that's why he chose to coach there so much.

 

[bgwh]

Btw I just read your article. I agree with Warped on this one I'm sorry. This is the kind of fluff stuff that kept me a virgin. All this stuff is what made me think I need to learn and have 476 things before I can get girls.

I don't agree with how he tied it to the 1 in 50 number, but yah, this stuff about languages and types and all this stuff... I directly blame this stuff for being a virgin in the first decade after learning about pua stuff online.

 

[isildur1]

Btw I just read your article. I agree with Warped on this one I'm sorry. This is the kind of fluff stuff that kept me a virgin. All this stuff is what made me think I need to learn and have 476 things before I can get girls.

I don't agree with how he tied it to the 1 in 50 number, but yah, this stuff about languages and types and all this stuff... I directly blame this stuff for being a virgin in the first decade after learning about pua stuff online.

i never said you had to be those things before you can get girls i never once said they were all prerequisites at all. , warped made that assumption when he replied

i found by implementing them it helped me reduce flakes and blown outs and win rapport quicker - that's all. Its by no means a necessity and some of those pointers can help in specific situations - if you chose to game in brazil for example then obviously learning Portuguese is going to make daygame there a million times easier- similarly to those who did game around eastern europe / central asia having a grasp of Russian makes things 100 times easier and massively reduces flakes / poor conversation. basic sales lingo if you are passionate about a certain race of girl learn said races language and you'll have a much easier time when gaming in said country.

 

[bgwh]

i never said you had to be those things before you can get girls i never once said they were all prerequisites at all. , warped made that assumption when he replied

i found by implementing them it helped me reduce flakes and blown outs and win rapport quicker - that's all. Its by no means a necessity and some of those pointers can help in specific situations - if you chose to game in brazil for example then obviously learning Portuguese is going to make daygame there a million times easier- similarly to those who did game around eastern europe / central asia having a grasp of Russian makes things 100 times easier and massively reduces flakes / poor conversation. basic sales lingo if you are passionate about a certain race of girl learn said races language and you'll have a much easier time when gaming in said country.

I know you didn't say that, but this is how it reads. And none of those authors said that these things are a prerequisite, but it kept me a virgin.

It's implied unless stated otherwise. It should be written like this:

+ Don't even worry about this stuff until you have 10 lays under your belt first, until then don't read this blog post it will just cause overwhelm.

 

[Bob Z]

In either case, if the top guys in the world claim 1 in 30, I can see how allowing for context it makes sense to say the range is 30-50...

I'm surprised when someone says that for example someone "only" laying 1 in 40 is proof that they are horrible just off the number alone.

Simply because I have never seen anyone claim it's possible to get much better. Now if there were guys getting 1 in 5, then I'd be like "fuck context, 1 in 40 is horrible, I don't care about the specifics, that sucks". But is there anyone getting 1 in 5 from pure daygame cold approach?

i agree - would appreciate knowing more what results are typical, good etc. in certain contexts as a benchmark.

I was just listening to Alek aka @Teevster on the forum's old podcast with Chase on the girlschase soundcloud and I remember him saying that if he was suuuuper rusty (haven't talked to anyone in 6 months) his ratio might be something like 1 in 20 but if he is in good rythym it could be like 1 in 5 or even better. (I hope i am not misquoting - my apologies if I am). So seems like 1 in 5 or better is definitely possible (granted Alek is one of best seducers in world).

1 in 40/50 seems super bad to me unless you're downright spamming.

Just intuitively I would personally be happy with 1 in 20 for daygame at least and anything worse than that would be difficult. I think 1 in 10 is definitely doable with just good fundamentals, decent grasp on game non-spammy approaches but I'm just speculating.

I should make post on this. Will make new post about meet-lay ratio and what it looks like to ask more experienced guys opinion.

 

[isildur1]

i agree - would appreciate knowing more what results are typical, good etc. in certain contexts as a benchmark.

I was just listening to Alek aka @Teevster on the forum's old podcast with Chase on the girlschase soundcloud and I remember him saying that if he was suuuuper rusty (haven't talked to anyone in 6 months) his ratio might be something like 1 in 20 but if he is in good rythym it could be like 1 in 5 or even better. (I hope i am not misquoting - my apologies if I am). So seems like 1 in 5 or better is definitely possible (granted Alek is one of best seducers in world).

1 in 40/50 seems super bad to me unless you're downright spamming.

Just intuitively I would personally be happy with 1 in 20 for daygame at least and anything worse than that would be difficult. I think 1 in 10 is definitely doable with just good fundamentals, decent grasp on game non-spammy approaches but I'm just speculating.

I should make post on this. Will make new post about meet-lay ratio and what it looks like to ask more experienced guys opinion.

1 in 5 ? from cold approach to lay? i just don't believe it- i've been out with some effective male models and the best i've seen from them has been around 1 in 20/25 - bear in mind a lot of women you approach will have girlfriends , wives, be not interested. 1 in 5 means that one in every 5 girls will want to fuck you off the bat just because you are you i don't believe the majority of women are that impulsive from my experience a good percentage of them require dates to win rapport and build from there.

 

[Kaida]

Just for clarity, are you saying there are guys who have significantly better ratios? The reason I ask is because I've searched hard recently for anyone who claims to have a significantly better ratio, and never found one. The best I have seen is like 1 in 30 or something I think.

Or is it more that you're saying that isildur's overcomplication is unnecessary since it doesn't improve the ratio anyway? In which case I agree.

Btw, this is a genuine question, i'm not challenging you or disagreeing, I'm really curious on the topic of what's a good ratio, and can't find the answer. I've seen guys who hint at having a significantly higher ratio, but they never spell it out. And for guys who spreadsheet and keep track and spell things out, I have never seen anyone claim a significantly better ratio.

Master PUA ratio is like 1:7 (I’m pretty sure that’s what Teevster said his was, anyone correct me if I’m wrong)

Hector said there was one year where he only approached 5 women because he wasn’t focusing on picking up, but still laid every single girl. So theres that

You can get really good at this shit if you put your mind to it man!

 

[Kaida]

1 in 5 means that one in every 5 girls will want to fuck you off the bat just because you are you

No bro… obviously game is involved

He also didn’t say dates werent involved

 

[bgwh]

Master PUA ratio is like 1:7 (I’m pretty sure that’s what Teevster said his was, anyone correct me if I’m wrong)

Hector said there was one year where he only approached 5 women because he wasn’t focusing on picking up, but still laid every single girl. So theres that

You can get really good at this shit if you put your mind to it man!

Obviously at 5 approaches a year these were not random 5 women. And obviously the question is about ratio for random women.

You can get to a point where you recognize who's really into you and only approach those women. But obviously this guy is asking about approaching random women, not being picky in terms of picking girls you know are waiting for you to just open and close the deal.

Don't get me wrong. I actually think that's the better approach. I'm not saying guys should approach randomly. It's just that only approaching obvious girls is indicative of a different skill, i.e. the skill to recognize who's begging for you to approach and close. It's not what this guy was asking about though, different topic.

 

[TomInHo]

1 in 5 ? from cold approach to lay?

Teevs is talking about Night Game here and that's possible. But is it possible for long stretches?

Idk because you have to factor in luck and periods of high/low momentum

Master PUA ratio is like 1:7 (I’m pretty sure that’s what Teevster said his was, anyone correct me if I’m wrong)

Hector said there was one year where he only approached 5 women because he wasn’t focusing on picking up, but still laid every single girl. So theres that

I would take that information with a grain of salt

So you telling me he ONLY talked to 5 women the entire year?

We are missing tons of context here

Was it a warm approach? Did she give an AI? Did she approach him? How about the other women he had random conversations with, do they not count or is because he wasn't really trying?

Or out of those lays how many of them were a random conversation then randomly midway he thought oh I can close this girl

I understand why guys worry about ratios but the truth is there are a lot of factors that determine that

Think a better approach is track your own personal progress. Fuck what another guy is doing and what your ratio should be. If you are fucking girls you want and are able to make it more effortless and ingrained as you get more experience then you on the right track

Comparison is the thief of joy