19-23yos and their internal frame

Logan

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Some background: I'm in my mid-30s. Tall enough and good-looking enough. Done thousands of approaches, gotten laid plenty, have fbs. I am charismatic when I want to be, screen hard, and lead. I know what I want. Women over 30 chase me, the 27-30 girls are easy with a lil effort, and 24-26 are a challenge but usually end up going down.

I live and work nearby two universities so I've been meeting and interacting with lots of girls in the 19-23 age range. From body language, etc its obvious that they are attracted to me. In setting up a "date" I keep it casual. After running into this issue the first few times I started giving them more hoops to jump through before the date since I was thinking that more compliance early on would lead to better compliance later and ultimately submission. Wrong.

So here's the thing. Meet. Exchange numbers. Text. Get them out. At this point there's attraction and compliance, and I've lead the interaction the whole way in terms of texting and setting up the meet. But I keep getting shut down at two points: 1) If I try to change venues, etc to somewhere more conducive to sex happening they agree at first but then say sorry I can't gotta do xxxx whatever OR 2) when physical escalation goes from light touching to she knows she's gonna get fucked. Its one thing to say "maybe she's not comfortable with escalation in public" and thats fine, but then she fights all attempts to go somewhere nonpublic.

Its like these girls have some internal frame that says she's the boss and I'm not, and no matter if I get compliance and them chasing me "I had so much fun, I want to see you again, you're hot, etc" they still snap right back to shutting the escalation down and refusing to let me lead.

I sense no guile or duplicity in them. When they say "I can't Logan, I have to be up at 6am tomorrow" they're not lying to me. Its like I get them in this emotional,turned on state (face and chest flushed bright red, change in breathing) and start the escalation but then they stop me dead in my tracks. Its different from LMR.

Also its different from the older girls playing hard-to-get. They have this twinkle in their eyes as they're shutting you down, and they are practically begging you to overcome their resistance (ASD). The young ones just give their reason/excuse for not complying in a completely frank, matter-of-fact tone of voice. Its outside of their reality that this would happen. I get it, some of you are thinking "Well if they are attracted to you and you are leading and escalating then they would submit, their emotions would overcome their logic and they would fuck you." While I understand that, I honestly don't know what else to do in these situations in the moment since I executed the fundamentals and I've done it hundreds of times.

So I have two ideas:

1. They need more *comfort* and time. This is all fine and good, and I've heard from some other playas that with the younger ones you just gotta Netflix and chill several times until one day she's horny enough that she says "lets fuck." The ones who want bfs have them, and the others seem to be busy with school, work and their gfs that men become an afterthought. They only hookup when drunk enough and horny enough AND the right guy is there. So basically sexy social circle boy. I am perfectly ok with slowing things down and not escalating hard but then she's basically leading, and now I have to get her out another time which involves texting, coordinating, etc. which as we all know can be challenging.

2. Alcohol. I hate to say it but its true. I've even had one or two have nicknames for their drunk selves and she's the one who hooks up, sober girl is a virgin lol. I don't enjoy drinking that much and don't like the rapey implications.

3. Get her chasing. I've tried the frames I know for making myself the prize and it hasn't worked so far. Maybe one of you know some sort of inceptscalation

Any thoughts or suggestions gentlemen?
 

Chase

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Logan-

Alcohol's helpful with 19-23 y/os, yeah. They still have a lot of inhibitions at that age, and alcohol makes it easier. You don't need it much for girls over 25, but under it's helpful. At the same time, be wary they don't drink TOO much, because it's a confusing age and there are a lot of forces on college campuses trying to tell them sex + alcohol = rape. Bit of a witch hunt going on right now.

I've actually found it's more helpful to NOT connect to them too much. This was true for me when I was in my early twenties, and it's true for me a decade later. My general impression has been that if I build too much of a connection with a younger girl, she loses respect for me. Like, "This guy's older... WHY would he care about me? I guess he's not that high value if he wants to connect to ME. Or this is just his angle."

Because they're still learning courtship at this age, they're much more in their heads and mechanical about it. It's not a "go with the flow" seduction like it is with older/more experienced women.

I find it's better to just let her talk about her life and gently rib her as she does. Maybe occasionally provide a little advice / encouragement / inspiration, but not too much. I don't generally use much chase framing with younger girls, because as you note, it doesn't work. Unless they're precocious (if they spent a lot of time in nightclubs, it can work on them, for instance), they haven't developed the social acumen for it to work at that point. Instead, better to rely on gentle teasing / giving her a hard time, and being a little bit of a playfully condescending jerk. You're older than her; she expects you to behave as her superior.

I talk about myself the least with younger girls; I originally transitioned to my "talk about yourself as little as possible" rule as a result of trying to figure out how to get younger girls and failing. As soon as I quit talking about myself they started sleeping with me. Whereas older women tend to want to know more about you. Younger women are more self-centered; they want to talk about themselves, let them talk. Your stories about travel or fighting or getting arrested or art or whatever are boring, because it's not about them. So don't talk about those things.

If she's not a talker, and she's under 23 or so, I will generally take that as a bad sign that there's not a lot of potential there unless she's super compliant, and generally will just offer her a hangout date, then drop her if she doesn't bite. A proper date, a café, etc., is too formal for a young girl who isn't really into you. Her life is very casual at that point, and meeting for coffees feels like she's auditioning to be your wife. Whereas ask out a girl who's 27 or 28 and coffee feels incredibly casual to her.

If I had to boil it down to a general philosophy I'd say:

  • Don't bother to connect to her too much (but do let her talk about herself)
  • DO tease her / bust on her a fair bit. She's a kid, you find it amusing, all the drama in her life is silly, but you're good-natured about it
  • If she's a talker, let her talk and bust on her. If she's quiet but compliant, move for a hangout date
  • Leverage the Law of Least Effort as much as possible. She should feel like you're putting minimal effort into sleeping with her, because she's just some dumb kid. Too much persistence/investment from an older guy to a younger girl kills it

Chase
 

JimmyB

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Oct 27, 2014
Messages
172
I find it's better to just let her talk about her life and gently rib her as she does . . . better to rely on gentle teasing / giving her a hard time, and being a little bit of a playfully condescending jerk.
This is spot on, and for reasons Chase states. I tend to have success with younger girls and I don't do much other than playfully make fun of them. I'm not a big talker so it works out well. I think it's because you're older, it's just assumed that you're high value. You do not have to qualify yourself at all and she will just deep-dive herself pretty much lol. Ask questions and get her talking, but she'll be more than willing to share all of this with some one older and more experienced. This way she feels very connected to you even though she might know very little about you! (it's not your investment in her, it's hers in you). Once again, she just ASSUMES you have a lot behind you because with 10 more years of life, you have a lot more life experience. The important thing is to lead. Steer things in the direction of you two hooking up. She will require a bit more encouragement if she's inexperienced, but she will follow your lead because you're older and know what you're doing. I think you're experiencing token resistance and need to just power through it. That or it'll take a couple meetups of gradual escalation to sleep wtih these girls. Like first time you make out but she won't go further . . . she still wants to see you again. So you go out again and get a bit further - hot and heavy but she won't have sex . . . 3rd time she feels very comfortable and you sleep together. I've found if an experienced girl is in a position she knows you're likely to have sex but is still a bit uncerain, she might bring it up herself that you pour some drinks or she will get herself a little tipsy because she's kind of unsure of herself. It's not that she doesn't want to hook up with you, she might just be nervous. Just let her put in more of the effort and you'll hook up.
maybe she's not comfortable with escalation in public
Escalating in public is never a good strategy . . . most girls aren't up for it. Just wait until you two are alone together. Suggest you go back to your place and I'm sure she'd be on board.
Where are you meeting up with these girls, bars?
 

Logan

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Chase said:
Logan-

Alcohol's helpful with 19-23 y/os, yeah. They still have a lot of inhibitions at that age, and alcohol makes it easier. You don't need it much for girls over 25, but under it's helpful. At the same time, be wary they don't drink TOO much, because it's a confusing age and there are a lot of forces on college campuses trying to tell them sex + alcohol = rape. Bit of a witch hunt going on right now.

I've actually found it's more helpful to NOT connect to them too much. This was true for me when I was in my early twenties, and it's true for me a decade later. My general impression has been that if I build too much of a connection with a younger girl, she loses respect for me. Like, "This guy's older... WHY would he care about me? I guess he's not that high value if he wants to connect to ME. Or this is just his angle."

Because they're still learning courtship at this age, they're much more in their heads and mechanical about it. It's not a "go with the flow" seduction like it is with older/more experienced women.

I find it's better to just let her talk about her life and gently rib her as she does. Maybe occasionally provide a little advice / encouragement / inspiration, but not too much. I don't generally use much chase framing with younger girls, because as you note, it doesn't work. Unless they're precocious (if they spent a lot of time in nightclubs, it can work on them, for instance), they haven't developed the social acumen for it to work at that point. Instead, better to rely on gentle teasing / giving her a hard time, and being a little bit of a playfully condescending jerk. You're older than her; she expects you to behave as her superior.

I talk about myself the least with younger girls; I originally transitioned to my "talk about yourself as little as possible" rule as a result of trying to figure out how to get younger girls and failing. As soon as I quit talking about myself they started sleeping with me. Whereas older women tend to want to know more about you. Younger women are more self-centered; they want to talk about themselves, let them talk. Your stories about travel or fighting or getting arrested or art or whatever are boring, because it's not about them. So don't talk about those things.

If she's not a talker, and she's under 23 or so, I will generally take that as a bad sign that there's not a lot of potential there unless she's super compliant, and generally will just offer her a hangout date, then drop her if she doesn't bite. A proper date, a café, etc., is too formal for a young girl who isn't really into you. Her life is very casual at that point, and meeting for coffees feels like she's auditioning to be your wife. Whereas ask out a girl who's 27 or 28 and coffee feels incredibly casual to her.

If I had to boil it down to a general philosophy I'd say:

  • Don't bother to connect to her too much (but do let her talk about herself)
  • DO tease her / bust on her a fair bit. She's a kid, you find it amusing, all the drama in her life is silly, but you're good-natured about it
  • If she's a talker, let her talk and bust on her. If she's quiet but compliant, move for a hangout date
  • Leverage the Law of Least Effort as much as possible. She should feel like you're putting minimal effort into sleeping with her, because she's just some dumb kid. Too much persistence/investment from an older guy to a younger girl kills it

Chase
Dude, fuck. Thank you! I've been banging my head into a wall and the DON'T connect/DON'T talk about yourself advice has been popping up, but you're the only one who explained it well. Because of past successes (many of which were in a completely different city with a different vibe) I believed that I could basically hijack her brain and emotions through telling powerful stories and being genuine and authentic. Then from there lead her wherever for whatever. But now they basically seek out my attention, then I give them too much, and, whats different from the past, is that the eventually get bored or figure they've won me over, and then they leave or go back to their phones.

Thanks again!
 

Logan

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ProblemSolving said:
Hi Logan,

Describe your date process.
Apparently I was talking about myself too much and connecting too much. Right in front of my face the whole time!
 

Logan

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JimmyB said:
I find it's better to just let her talk about her life and gently rib her as she does . . . better to rely on gentle teasing / giving her a hard time, and being a little bit of a playfully condescending jerk.
This is spot on, and for reasons Chase states. I tend to have success with younger girls and I don't do much other than playfully make fun of them. I'm not a big talker so it works out well. I think it's because you're older, it's just assumed that you're high value. You do not have to qualify yourself at all and she will just deep-dive herself pretty much lol. Ask questions and get her talking, but she'll be more than willing to share all of this with some one older and more experienced. This way she feels very connected to you even though she might know very little about you! (it's not your investment in her, it's hers in you). Once again, she just ASSUMES you have a lot behind you because with 10 more years of life, you have a lot more life experience. The important thing is to lead. Steer things in the direction of you two hooking up. She will require a bit more encouragement if she's inexperienced, but she will follow your lead because you're older and know what you're doing. I think you're experiencing token resistance and need to just power through it. That or it'll take a couple meetups of gradual escalation to sleep wtih these girls. Like first time you make out but she won't go further . . . she still wants to see you again. So you go out again and get a bit further - hot and heavy but she won't have sex . . . 3rd time she feels very comfortable and you sleep together. I've found if an experienced girl is in a position she knows you're likely to have sex but is still a bit uncerain, she might bring it up herself that you pour some drinks or she will get herself a little tipsy because she's kind of unsure of herself. It's not that she doesn't want to hook up with you, she might just be nervous. Just let her put in more of the effort and you'll hook up.
maybe she's not comfortable with escalation in public
Escalating in public is never a good strategy . . . most girls aren't up for it. Just wait until you two are alone together. Suggest you go back to your place and I'm sure she'd be on board.
Where are you meeting up with these girls, bars?
Yes meeting up at bars. Or if under 21 and the weather is nice I will meet up at a park or coffee shop if not. Obviously I try to get them to come over to mine or go to theirs after the witching hour and that has worked a few times recently.

Thank you for your advices. I was obviously talking too much about myself and telling too many stories. More aloof from now on. More questions.
 

Logan

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Tried this out on a 21yo from Tinder yesterday. Had been trying to meet up for a few weeks. She *soft-flaked* on me last Tues (had forgotten about saying yes to roommate, then dragged along by roommate and family) and we texted back and forth. Sunday night I basically told her its either tomorrow or never (bc we both had off for the holiday). Then I changed the subject. And then later on in the text convo she asks if we are meeting up or not. So we meet up during the day, walk along the river, plenty of people-watching.

I stuck to asking her questions about herself and her life. Any time I let her talk she seemed happy to hear the sound of her own voice, but kind of zoned out when I was talking. Her life is so incredibly fucking boring, and the date was painful. A seemingly endless stream of inanities flowing from between her lips. All she does is go to school, work, do homework, use apps on her phone, and drink with her sorority sisters and friends. ZERO other interests or hobbies.

Since she had been talking about drinking alot and I wanted to salvage the date, I walked us to a bar and sat down for a drink. After one I was done and the alcohol did nothing to make her more interesting. Next.

I deleted Tinder and other apps.
 
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