LR 2nd date lay :P

[Swati]

*fyi this lay was like from 1 month ago, if it's considered "ancient lays" then feel free to remove it or mark it as is​

Meet online before I got shadow banned, I matched with her. we chatted for about a week, I had plans to meet this chick, then she went cold for a few days, slow-replying. Turns out when I asked her about

"when was the last time you had sex?"

she was getting dicked down by her ex the week with the slow replies, which was funny as fuck because we were chatting great, then ghost mode. I hit her up again after that week, sensing some hesitancy. Didn’t push for a meetup, because if I’d set the frame of “let’s do it now,” she might’ve flaked or auto-rejected due to attainability being too high. She was also occupied, so I played it cool.

First Date​

We met at a hookah lounge. She was 10 minutes late, but I had her sit right next to me. When I had girl sit in front of me, usually doesn't go well . If a girl sits across from you on the first date, it triggers her to be more defensive, and she’s less bought in. That usually means slow escalation or no burn at all. She sat next to me, so I knew I had a shot. I smoked hookah, she didn’t. We each ordered two drinks, I paid for all of it. Convo was solid, though I don’t remember exactly what we talked about, just BS and some sexualization no touching. after first drinks, she ordered another together with me. when we left to go to the metro I got a boner and when we hugged, I push it up against her pussy, pretty sure she felt it. I pulled her back to my place, saying it’s just to check out the view, which I do have. Within 5 minutes of escalating, I tried taking off her clothes, when I got to her pants to rub her pussy, she stopped me. Probably had some mental model about not fucking on the first date. I’ve met girls like this before—second date is usually where I can escalate faster. Also she

"took her birth control in front of me"
This one is interesting because usually when they show me that they are on the pill, they are usually opened to banging. But apparently she wasn't this time

Second Date​

A week later, she hit me up to meet again. I "seeded the idea that she should buy me food" or some shit, since I paid for the first date. She was texting me, calling me “hot guy” and throwing compliments, so I knew it was a done deal. She wanted to go for a walk, which was boring as fuck. No thrill, no excitement, just felt like a chore. I closed, immediately wanted to end the date, lol. Like, I knew it was gonna happen


Later Developments

After the 3 time banging, she wanted to stay the night, she got clingy. She’s got this lingering energy, talks nonstop, like she might be on the spectrum or something. She won’t shut up. She got pissed when I wouldn’t spend the night at her place, giving me dirty looks. She went cold again for a bit, probably sulking. We still met up a couple more times, she said she had surgery and dog died blah blah blah. Didn’t bang those times, which was whatever. She still hits me up, and I’m not sure what I’ll do with her. She’s really annoying, and I’m pretty much done with her drama.

Also I did a test, I have an avoidant type of personality, definitely can't deal with too much social contacts and "communication" it's annoying. Some dude loves the girls who talks none stop.

Takeaways​

Most of my lays are first-date closes, but I’m wondering if going for second dates would give me a higher close rate with more girls? Or if it’s just a different social frame with some girls who won’t bang on the first date. An acquaintance says he closes on third, fourth, even fifth dates, but that feels like a sunk cost fallacy. If it gets to a third date, I feel like I fucked up somewhere. Badboy (croatian dude) talks about second dates having a higher close probability, and Mystery mentions this too, but he plays a high-social-value game, bringing girls into his frame to close them easier. He doesn’t mind socializing and gaming girls he brings along. Curious what you guys think about first-date closes versus playing the long game, and where you draw the line on pursuing if it’s not happening.

 

[Levo]

Most of my lays are first-date closes, but I’m wondering if going for second dates would give me a higher close rate with more girls? Or if it’s just a different social frame with some girls who won’t bang on the first date. An acquaintance says he closes on third, fourth, even fifth dates, but that feels like a sunk cost fallacy. If it gets to a third date, I feel like I fucked up somewhere. Badboy (croatian dude) talks about second dates having a higher close probability, and Mystery mentions this too, but he plays a high-social-value game, bringing girls into his frame to close them easier. He doesn’t mind socializing and gaming girls he brings along. Curious what you guys think about first-date closes versus playing the long game, and where you draw the line on pursuing if it’s not happening.​

Its absolutely fine to close on the second date. I usually give them three before I bounce. Any more than that and its obvious she has you in the provider frame or is just stringing you along.

Often times the logistics just arent there to close on the first date, or depending on the girl a lot of them have social programming that insists on not having sex the first date or two, regardless of if she wants to.

It also depends on the length of the dates. Ive stuck pretty hard and fast to the 4-10 hour rule Mystery had way back in the day unless its a purely sexual pull from a club. Ive had plenty of first dates that went all night and ended in lays but also girls with packed schedules who needed 3 short dates because they had other places to be.

In terms of asking girls their opinions theyre all programmed to say they wait a few dates. Ive had multiple exes I stay on good terms with that I laid on the first date and when I asked them how a date went and if they got laid they react like I insulted them and are like "WTF I just dont fuck everyone on the first date, I'm not a slut" and I have to bite my tongue and not say the dude must have sucked because you had no issue with fucking me on the first date.

If you aren't going on at least second dates youre leaving a lot of lays on the table. It wont take long till youre calibrated to read the vibe of whether she just needs more time or youre wasting your time.

At minimum, I keep the low probability ones alive on text and only offer them dates on nights I don't have anything else planned.

 

[Swati]

Its absolutely fine to close on the second date. I usually give them three before I bounce. Any more than that and its obvious she has you in the provider frame or is just stringing you along.

Often times the logistics just arent there to close on the first date, or depending on the girl a lot of them have social programming that insists on not having sex the first date or two, regardless of if she wants to.

It also depends on the length of the dates. Ive stuck pretty hard and fast to the 4-10 hour rule Mystery had way back in the day unless its a purely sexual pull from a club. Ive had plenty of first dates that went all night and ended in lays but also girls with packed schedules who needed 3 short dates because they had other places to be.

In terms of asking girls their opinions theyre all programmed to say they wait a few dates. Ive had multiple exes I stay on good terms with that I laid on the first date and when I asked them how a date went and if they got laid they react like I insulted them and are like "WTF I just dont fuck everyone on the first date, I'm not a slut" and I have to bite my tongue and not say the dude must have sucked because you had no issue with fucking me on the first date.

If you aren't going on at least second dates youre leaving a lot of lays on the table. It wont take long till youre calibrated to read the vibe of whether she just needs more time or youre wasting your time.

At minimum, I keep the low probability ones alive on text and only offer them dates on nights I don't have anything else planned.

Yeah most of my lays have been from night game and I fall in that frame thinking that if I don't lay them same night or day/date or they don't see me cool sexy enough. you know ego.

Not really true, as I've later on known how to build rapport and comfort, they come around more.

The dudes that do the 3-5 dates thing, yeah I noticed they keep it pretty brief on the dates also they tend to be playing the "conspicuous consumption" game. In the end is around like 1.5 month laying a girl...

I know you mentioned the different age ranges, you've been gaming 30+ year old I'd assume they would have a longer attention span compared to the 18-23 years old, ones I encounter more and go for. Would like some references? As for missing sexual escalation window they auto reject putting you into friendzone, have you find this to be true?

 

[Levo]

Yeah most of my lays have been from night game and I fall in that frame thinking that if I don't lay them same night or day/date or they don't see me cool sexy enough. you know ego.

Yeah I totally know hat feeling. I started out doing primarily night game and thought the same thing. One thing Ive learned is there is a lot of self-selection with girls who go to bars and clubs so yeah theyre much more open to having sex on the first date. Once you branch out and start meeting women from all walks of life you will get much more conservative/programmed ones who, in their minds, will absolutely will not have sex on the first date. They have hard programming, whether its being asd, fear of going to a stranger's house or just a prize mentality that they have to make a man earn it, some just will not sleep with you on the first date.

The dudes that do the 3-5 dates thing, yeah I noticed they keep it pretty brief on the dates also they tend to be playing the "conspicuous consumption" game. In the end is around like 1.5 month laying a girl...

I definitely do not play the conspicuous consumption game. I do play the "I have a good job" card which if she doesn't have a good job then theres a social frame that transcends dating that I should pay, which I generally don't mind becaus eI didnt take her to an expensive place in the first place. I've actually been shocked that more women than not Ive taken out lately have offered to pay for their own portion.

When I say 3 dates I mean either a bar for drinks or a casual date location like the park or cheap restaurants. Trivia nights are a good second date in my experience (not first date though, too many interruptions from having to turn in the paper to build proper comfort). I put them on a 2 week timer after the first date. If theyre not wanting to meet up relatively soon then the vibe is not there and eject. 1.5 months and paying a lot of money is provider game and they will expect you to be their bf. Not my goal.

I know you mentioned the different age ranges, you've been gaming 30+ year old I'd assume they would have a longer attention span compared to the 18-23 years old, ones I encounter more and go for. Would like some references? As for missing sexual escalation window they auto reject putting you into friendzone, have you find this to be true?

They will 100% reject you if you miss the escalation window unless youre in the chump provider frame for them. Thats over 10-12 hours face time like I eluded to before. For me, if it gets there, the third date is almost always either at my house or if she just has some weird ASD hangup about that, a bar that I make it clear is 3 minutes from my house with the hard implication that we will be bouncing home after a bit.

Another thing about playing multi-date game is you can also lose them if you turn them on too much and cant close for whatever reason. For me its always been super key to have the logistics down before the date even starts. If you know for a fact you won't be able to get her to a spot where you can have sex then any escalation past verbal sexual talk and framing can lose it for you. You've triggered that thing inside her where youve actively made her pussy wet and she says I'm ready to let this guy fuck me and you don't, logic of the situation be damned, she will fade in my experience. Same with keeping her around for more than 10 hours and not closing.

About the ages, it ought to be easier to sleep with the 18-23 year olds on the first or second date. Reason being time. The reason I need 3 dates a lot of the time is that 30+ women have careers and kids and responsibilities to whatever that give them hard stops to dates. They cant bounce from place to place, bar to bar, then to my house for sex and be responsible about what they have to get up at 6am and do the next day, or go get their kids from wherever because they dropped them off to see me and their friend or family wont keep the kid till 2am for them to go fuck. They will absolutely be more willing to see me again soon and wish they didnt have to go home so soon, where as the 18-23 year olds probably have all the time in the world and if they are saying out of the blue they have a hard stop to the date after 2 hours and dont want to do anything else tonight but will see you again soon I would be much more likely to take that as a rejection and expect them to flake.