5 or even 10 dates!

[girlsfollow]

Are there exceptions where we should be happy to spend time with the girl and sometimes there is no need to push early for closing.....

I put this in advanced because this is not a good standard approach and I wouldn't want to put anyone off the standard here - chases fast approach is the best... IT WORKS! it gets you the most experience and most closes by far as an attitude - that is not the discussion here

However

I realised 3 experienced people have had the best experiences of our lives with girls despite having more than 4 dates with the girls. So if at first she feels difficult/it doesn't feel right to kiss/bring her home yet....the discussion is only whether it may be ok to continue using it the approach in a slightly lower pressure form persistently in rare cases

I failed with a particularly high quality girl after pushing her too fast/hard during travels (despite my great first impression and very clear attraction from her) trying to deep dive and isolate too quickly etc- a good friend (about 150 F closes) that witnessed this has had a lot of success using a very laid back approach and recommended I try the same. FLEXIBILITY eg this girl had just broken up with her bf and is a 10 type girl. THOUGHTS:

- the general approach chase uses here is on average by far the best

- my friend has frequently had high quality girls take as many as 5, upto 7 dates to come around! And at the end they have finally had very fulfilling sex multiple times

- I add to this another friend that had sex with a very attractive reserved girl only after 10 dates and made her his very sexual gf, and the same with my ex - I got together with her after after months of fb chatting building comfort and 4 or 5 dates (some were with her brother/family - I knew them well before her) and we had awesome sex

THIS IS OPPOSITE to your general advice on here chase - It would be good to have a discussion, it could of course be argued that these closes could have been achieved more quickly and more girls could have been seen in that "wasted" time, but I doubt any of us would want to trade that time for a whole load of dates.........................discuss.......

 

[Estate]

Not an expert here but I'll just throw my 2 cents in...

It's not that going slow WON'T work. But it sets a different expectation. If you wine and dine a girl for 7 dates before bedding her you're setting the tone of being a boyfriend and that you're willing to spend the time and effort on this one girl.
If you take her to bed fast then it sets a different dynamic...

If you met and slept with a woman the same day, are you expected to make her your girlfriend? Could happen but it's not expected.
If you took her to dinner 7 times and bought her flowers etc, then slept with her and disappear the next day... what does this mean? Well it takes a lot more work if you want to set the tone as casual. It's so much time and effort just to bed a girl, if your ultimate goal is ONLY to bed her and find the next girl.
You could otherwise use those 7 dates to meet 7 other women who you COULD be sleeping with.

I think it depends on your goal in the end. If you are after ONE girl and want a relationship, taking longer sets that tone.
If you want to meet lots of women and sleep with them without immediately becoming their boyfriend, I think the idea is that moving fast is the way to go. It doesn't mean EVERY girl will go with you moving fast, but it filters the women, so if they don't follow your lead, you don't waste your time or theirs and use that time to meet other girls. Also, if you do sleep with them and choose not to proceed further, you are running less of a risk of seriously hurting or misleading someone.

As with all things Pick-up... I feel it's bad to assume all girls are the same and that the same tactics work on all girls.
It's not true. Some girls just won't sleep with you fast, bottom line. Some girls only want a hookup and you can bed them VERY fast but don't expect a follow up and the spectrum ranges everywhere in between so a huge part of this is learning to read people and screening women to find those which align with what you are looking for too. I just think this part gets overlooked so much in Pickup.
Some intructors in companies out there make it sound like the just apply steps 1-10 in any situation with any woman and they will drop their skirt 100% of the time whether they are a 5 or a 10, whether they are single, married, in a relationship, widowed, divorced, looking, not looking, with friends, without friends, in a club, in the the park, or whatever... I just don't buy it.

For evidence look up RSD Jeffy and the bad publicity he's getting lately. This is a guy who charges thousands of dollars to spend a weekend with him as supposedly one of the best PUA's in the world, yet the guy lives in a van, trawls OKC, failed to get laid by a hooker and appears to be a pretty strange guy by any conventional standards. However the image and ideas he presents are SO far from that. That's just one example, but I think it's a good example of how other PUA theories mess guys up. Even when they get SOME success they are made feeling like failures and like they should buy the next product because they don't have 100% success rate laying ANY girl at ANY time, and there is nobody in the world who can do this.

 

[girlsfollow]

Not an expert here but I'll just throw my 2 cents in...

It's not that going slow WON'T work. But it sets a different expectation. If you wine and dine a girl for 7 dates before bedding her you're setting the tone of being a boyfriend and that you're willing to spend the time and effort on this one girl.

its not just the dynamic, maybe its the concept that attraction has an expiry date which I'm questioning - it sometimes seems like all is lost after the first 4 or 5 dates (oh there's no chance of anything happening now and many on here make it seem like its basically a waste of time after that) but actually persistence can pay off even in these cases....although again this isn't a good general strategy - pushing for a close as early on is best but not always necessary - I think thats my point here. Of course only with girls that are uniquely worth it and as long as it isnt preventing you from filling the funnel!

 

[MonsieurLabrie]

This is the post you should check:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-get-girls-last-post-youll-ever-need

Yeah its possible to get a girl after so many dates if she's young and inexperienced, but if you know what you're doing it shouldn't take that long. Also, the more time you waste, the more chances another guy will scoop her up while you're spinning your wheels.

Finally, if she's ever slept with a man fast, she'll never value you as much as him if you spent so much effort getting her. In the back of her mind, she'll think: "Jerry made me sleep with him on the first date, but girlsfollow only slept with me after 5 dates. I guess Jerry was much more attractive."

For all these reasons and those explained by Estate, it's just not a good idea to go on so many dates with a girl you haven't laid yet.


With inexperienced girls, what happens usually is that the guy pushes for sex early and she's not comfortable to do it yet, so she makes him wait until she cannot take it anymore and has to sleep with him. Depending on the girl, this can take some time.

The key thing here is that the guy DID push for sex, so he respected the rules by moving fast. After that, its just persistence. A guy who never pushed for sex during all those dates WILL be considered unattractive and unmanly.

"Attraction has an expiration date" is a teaching concept designed for guys who have problems with attainability and auto-rejection because they remain aloof for too long without making a move and miss escalation windows. Its not relevant in this case, since the girl already knows you're interested when you're dating her.

 

[Franco]

Hey girlsfollow,

I wanted to point out one thing that Labrie mentioned here that is critically important:

The key thing here is that the guy DID push for sex, so he respected the rules by moving fast. After that, its just persistence. A guy who never pushed for sex during all those dates WILL be considered unattractive and unmanly.

The most important thing about dating women without getting to sex past the first or second date is that you are somehow making progress toward it.

Every date you go on needs to be better than the last, and you need to be getting closer to sleeping with her every single time you get together. A woman might continue to see a man if her feelings toward him continue to grow, but if at any point she feels like there was no progress made (or even worse, it seems like the passion between you two took a step backwards), she'll more than likely cut her losses and move on to find a man who will move things forward with her faster.

I actually just saw a girl for the third time this past weekend who I hadn't slept with until then. However, the sexual progression with this girl had gone like this for me:

1st Date: Heavy making out on my couch with "attempted" touching between her legs to try to get her more excited. She resisted here.
2nd Date: Heavy making out on my bed followed by two hours of "dry sex" with our clothes still on and lots of feeling each other's bodies up and down.
3rd Date: Pushed past her resistance in her bed until I got my hands into her panties and fingered her until she got so excited that she jumped on top of me and practically raped me.

As you can see, each date ended with heavier physical passion, which made her want me even more. Ideally, you should attempt to go all the way on every single date until you two end up together. If she seems to be very resistant, at least make an effort to go farther than the last time you saw her as it will give you the best chance of seeing her again.

I hope this advice helps!

- Franco

 

[girlsfollow]

The most important thing about dating women without getting to sex past the first or second date is that you are somehow making progress toward it.

- Franco

Exactly - the best strategy is to always persist in your progress - the aim is to finish - but its not essential is the point here - I had a very similar progression with my girl (see my recent FR) - always some progress made.

Bit of advice I think if I had been quicker at taking my jeans off and just put a condom on I would have been able to go all the way - but I think I was too concentrated on using my hand and I got distracted with enjoying the rest of her body and she just came really quickly - which ended things prematurely - be prepared and when she's in a hyper aroused state where you can do anything - do it....

 

[Chase]

I know a few guys whose modus operandi is stretching out their seductions over multiple dates. Like, 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 dates... they just tease the girl, and tempt her, and never make a move, and brush off HER advances, until the girl is absolutely DYING to take them to bed.

I think this takes a certain personality type - you seem to really, really need to enjoy playing the cat and mouse game, and being the mouse the cat can never quite get. There are guys who just really love this reversal of the usual roles (i.e., girl chasing guy, instead of guy chasing girl), and so they draw it out and see how hard they can get the girl to chase them before anything ever happens - it's a big game to them.

Note though, that these guys do not care if they lose the girls. They kind of shrug, and go, "Ah, well, that's too bad."

My opinion of this style of game is that it really only works well if:

• You don't mind spending the time on it you do with each girl, knowing that she may or may not work out
• You have enough abundance going on that you don't care a whole lot whether you get one particular girl or not
• You really love making girls chase after you and enjoy the chase more than the "kill" (sex)

If that's you, you can really have fun with this style of game and do some really cool things. But you can never take any strong initiative with the girl - it all has to be you tempting and teasing and prompting HER into action and HER to be the aggressor, never vice versa. If you tempt and tease her for five dates and drive her wild, but then suddenly flip the script and you try to make a move on the sixth date, it'll get weird for her and be incongruent and she'll change her mind and think she was all wrong about you. You've got to have her chase from start to finish, even to the point of you being the one giving LMR while she physically escalates.

If that isn't you, and you're impatient, or busy, or not at a place of total abundance yet, or you don't really get off on stretching things out and making girls sweat, this type of game isn't ideal for you, and you'll just end up being frustrated.

So - depends on your preferences and where you're at with game, ultimately.

Chase