A ray of light in the darkness

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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I have recently discovered journals, and in order not to bore the community with my baby steps I will try to post FRs in here unless they are particularly noteworthy, I have gotten better at troubleshooting my own interactions but any & all feedback appreciated ;)

This is a kids weekend so I had no outlet for my approach addiction, Ihave once or twice done an approach while out with my kids but only if they are well and truly occupied with an activity (park, wild bird show in one case, etc).

So I decided to get a bit of tinder action in, while doing housework and getting kids dressed and all those things I have to do... I have been having one really long go-nowhere interaction with a cute 39-year old, probably over-invested there, also a lot of really short boring interactions (what do you do, etc) where the girl has lost interest pretty quickly... I did have one possibility I'll call Fan... a nice 34yo Asian chick with a quirky profile... decided to get out some game. The convo IIRC was like this:

Ray: hiya, looks like we both have good taste ;) [thanks RDawg! stole this! nice low pressure non-needy opener!]
Fan: hi how r u Ray?
Fan: we sure do have good taste ;)
Ray: i'm fine thanks, bit of a slow day, just had pancakes then went back to bed
Fan: I want to sleep in, but somehow I cannot. you made pancakes? yummmm
Ray: yeah, I have exactly the same problem, that's why I was up so early [it was about 9.30am at this stage] what other foods do you like, sexy foods? oysters, chocolate...??
Fan: so what do u do mr?
Fan: the other picture in your profile is kind of arty, what's the story?
Ray: haha long story, how much time do u have? i'll tell you over a coffee... I find your profile intriguing too, let's do it :)
Fan: tempting... :)
i'm not looking for hookup or one night stand.
friendship maybe.

what kind of work do you do?
Ray: temptress! [a chase frame] I have a very good job ;) you first
Fan: Accountant
Ray: I studied accounting for 2 years...very interesting. how are you on economics, finance, management?
Fan: I did undergraduate in bankong finance [note spelling error]... never worked in that area though
Ray: it's great to hear you've studied bonking, how about we recruit you to my company in that case? ;) [hoping to setup a role play as I'd just reread Chase's roleplay article last night]
If she responded positively I would have said: "this role will require attention to your appearance, a passionate attitude, and the occasional all-nighter, any of these going to be a problem? ;)" negatively I would have said "oops, anyone can make a typo ;)" thought I had all the bases covered, well in the afternoon she unmatched me! Gutted!!! hahahaha

In the afternoon I was out with my kids and re-approached cute coffee shop chick, greeted her by name but I do not think she remembered our conversation, it was 1-2 weeks ago, so that didn't go off as I hoped, but I had her recommend something to eat anyway, this is usually a good strategy for getting a bit of investment and more opportunity to talk with a hired gun. Anyway, NEXT! should have number closed in the first instance but I was not focused enough, was just passing time I guess. I should note I banned myself from approaching hired guns until I dealt with my approach anxiety, but this is in pretty good shape so I can probably go back to number closing waitresses, shop assistants and the like, this can be very easy at times.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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Messages
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NEXTable offence

I have been having a relationship of sorts with a married woman whom I'll call Sam... I have written about her previously. Anyway she turns out to be pretty troublesome, just the process of getting into her pants involved a fair bit of drama and this was followed by a kind of a honeymoon period of a few weeks where she helped me with some projects and I fucked her a lot, what happened then was that contact tailed off a bit, I think her husband was a bit unhappy about her spending large amounts of time around at my place, even though he didn't know what was going on AFAIK.

From there on she several times wanted to come over for sex but only gave me same-day notice, and they were times when I had other dates lined up through cold approach or whatnot. So I politely told her to give me more notice next time (I didn't tell her I was seeing other women, just that I wasn't going to be home). We also a few times met up with our kids present, I was okay with giving her a kiss discreetly or whatever, but she was keen to do more, and although I have never been comfortable with this I wasn't strong enough in setting my frame to eliminate this behaviour. At one stage her daughter walked in just after we'd come apart and this was a bit of a wakeup call. Fuck!

So I also had to lay down some ground rules about security, no sexting (not sending me pornographic pictures from the Internet, not sending me pictures of herself naked and not sending me text referring to us having sex or whatever) and nothing going on while kids present. I thought she understood about this but she then sent me a wall of text about how I'm not giving her what she needs, she feels I see her as only a fuck, and she's going to cut off contact et cetera blah blah. This was directly against the first ground rule because I don't want anything about our relationship in writing.

Because of this I ignored her for 3 or 4 days, the text coming from her was truly pathetic, a few days after she cut off contact she wanted to come around for one last fuck, I felt she had been punished enough (but failed to notice she was once again violating the ground rules) and politely replied I wasn't going to be home and would require more notice in future. Then she repeated this bullshit thing she does which is getting a new piercing when she feels rejected and then sending me pictures of it (I once told her I found nipple piercings erotic although I don't particularly like other piercings and she has perhaps not got this).

Fucking hell, this is really difficult, so after ignoring her another 3 or 4 days I decided again she'd been punished enough and sent her a "how's life" text, we exchanged a bit of news and this was good. I did this partly because I'll be seeing her on Wednesday (unless I decide to break the regular playdate which I don't want to do) and I'd prefer things not be awkward. After this she sent me another pornographic picture from the Internet and I'm fucking pissed off. I reckon this is hard NEXTable, I really cannot continue dealing with this, I do not want pornographic pictures, sexts and other crap sent to me all the time.

On a different tack I'm trying to reboot my life a bit because I've been experiencing approach addiction and it has been wrecking my routine. I have taken initial steps by resuming my diet and making it 100% strict so I cannot eat any other food than my diet food, because there were too many exceptions sneaking in before, resulting in my not losing any weight the last 2~3 months.

So I was walking from the office to the supermarket to get salad and tofu etc, when I noticed a girl walking beside me, clearly an approach invitation. I was experiencing approach anxiety so instead of opening her I checked her out and immediately regretted it, she was not bad but I couldn't open after an eye contact error, she got a bit creeped out and sped up and crossed the street. Oops. I felt a bit low.

Then went into the supermarket and after a while noticed someone awesome, tall in black stockings and a black and white miniskirt, but I was a bit shy to approach. I turned in front of her to go into an aisle, figuring if she walked into the same aisle as well, it would be an approach invitation, but she didn't. I was at the checkout when I noticed her leave without buying anything, so as soon as I finished I went after her, determined to get some balls and open her come what may, but she apparently wasn't going my way and I didn't see her anymore. Fuck!

This was a pretty shitty outing but the problem is that I am not scheduling my game, I am experiencing exactly the scenario outlined here:
https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7372
I feel terrible if I see a good looking woman and do not approach her, unfortunately this is all too common, especially as I am still a little anxious about doing approaches when I am not warmed up.

With this constant turmoil going, on my work is slipping a bit, and I have also been spending too much time on Tinder and other online crap, so I have totally deleted Tinder and Facebook, that felt good.

I now need to schedule my approaches and my time on girlschase forums, not to mention the homework for all my other self improvement classes and so on, so I can get a bit more control over things. I also want to get more early nights and give club game a miss for a time, instead focusing on day game, insta-dates, and insta-date lays.

A positive: I also deleted my tumblr profile and noted in the process that I haven't looked at porn since mid June. I think that's around the time I discovered GC, it took me about a month to do some initial work on fundamentals and get serious about approaching, then that's around the time I joined the forums here. Great, gone from porn addiction to getting physical with girls in just 4 months, nice Ray, nice :)
 

Howell

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Sep 23, 2014
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190
Love reading your journal, man! I'd say scheduling is a hugely useful thing to get into. Your drive to practice restraint and lead a more efficient healthy lifestyle has encouraged me to get my schedule back into shape -- as I too have been spending too much time lately on Tinder and OkCupid, and have been lazy about work and writing stuff. Now I'll only talk over those in bulk at specific times during the day, the same way I treat my email, and will follow a more reasonable work schedule. I get too ambitious sometimes and over-plan, which is discouraging instead of encouraging.

Keep it up; and I'll see you around the forum!

-Howell
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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Australia
Thanks Howell :) You can hold me accountable :) :) I will check out your journal (or struggle) too :)

Now a huge facepalm, if only I could have the last hour back and do things differently.

My regular JP teacher is away and I had substitute teacher who I will call May. She is very pretty, her hair is long since last time I saw her and she's super friendly and nice and funny. I debated before the class whether to do my usual routine of demanding she not use polite speech and using the rough masculine pronoun for myself and decided against it (chickened out rather). During the class saw a few opportunities to turn things sexual and did not take them, chickened out again. Still towards the end of the class the convo was flowing, we were supposed to be asking each other questions from a script but kept adding extra deep diving questions and getting to know each other. At this point I should have changed direction and started a seduction.

Anyway at the end she kept saying "see you again in 2 years!", a joke cos it had been a while since we last did a makeup class together, realized as we left the room I had missed the hugest escalation window, she was making it easy for me to ask her out and probably thinks I am a total lame ass now. Although she did comment on my fashion style being greatly improved, I wish I had taken the opportunity to compliment her on her new hairstyle...

Fuckety fuck, why so timid, maybe I am having a bad week although I am trying not to curse myself because being fair 1.5hrs ago I had no idea how it would go, seems so obvious now that I should have treated it as a seduction but I guess it wasn't then. I was a bit slow on the uptake, need to get more of a BMOC "I'm going to take everything sexual and if you have a problem with that, I couldn't give a fuck" style going at all times...
 

ray_zorse

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Messages
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Banged out another 15~20 approaches in the city around dusk. I just had to get a fix to improve my mood after earlier facepalm. Feeling great now. One flakey number close, one very solid number close -- she called her phone from mine to make sure she had the number, we discussed Thursday, she said she has some interviews so will text me with a definite time. Only slight problem, she was getting off escalator when I came around the corner talking to another girl later. I don't know if this will act as social proof or make me look like a sleaze. But interestingly the solid number close (I'll call her June) actually made contact with me first when she bumped into my foot from behind and apologized. So she may not realize I'm doing approaches. I was also approached by a hot Jehovah's witness girl doing missionary work from USA, bantered a bit with her amd let her colleague ramble on at me for ages, their approach was not really on point so I explained that I also do approaches and why, and tried to share some GC tips with them, think it fell on deaf ears. hahaha. TBC
 

ray_zorse

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Messages
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Bang! Another solid number close... last post I was in Starbucks, did another few approaches there, another 5 or so on the way to the car, stopped at a bar halfway home where I haven't actually had good results to date (very small and intimate, often nobody there, or groups of locals who all know each other) but this time it went great. Fay turned to me as I came in and sat at the bar beside her, so I met her eye contact after (of course) and greeted her "Hi there", bided my time as she was in a group of 3 but eventually opened her properly, went super well, engaged in some light banter to start (her scarf, she could get a bushranger look going if she moved it down from its original position of tying up her hair, etc).

On this occasion I wanted to mix it up a bit so I decided not to go for the usual questions of what does she do, etc (can be a bit of a downer when you are just trying to relax, and it's a different scene from city where basically everyone is a student, at least the foreign girls that I usually open). She gave me a great lead by telling me she knows the barman through the community garden where she has a plot, wonderful cos I love gardening and not only that, now that I'm househunting in the city to improve my logistics I'm gonna need a plot as well, also we both have a similar attitude to gardening since we aren't that knowledgeable but just love putting plants in the ground and sometimes learn something from it.

Got some real solid chase frames in, as we got to discussing festivals and how she had met one of her ex's there, so I expanded on a previous cold read of saying she was very good at drawing people out of themselves and that she had a lovelysmile and she would have had this guy under her thumb in seconds, haha, this also led to a discussion where I qualified her on being willing to grab life with both hands and take chances on people and we discussed this for quite a while. Lovely.

After last drinks I asked her out with a yes ladder, "have you been enjoying the conversation?" "yes" "and you would like to see me again?" "yes" "then how about we exchange numbers and go on a date" "ok!" This occurred in the presence of her sister who was waiting for us to say goodbye to each other, but I wasn't too concerned since she is a local girl (finally!!) and Aussies are pretty uninhibited about this kind of stuff. No cockblock there at least not as yet.

Fay put her number in my phone and then rang her phone and then got her phone out to make sure the call came through. Lovely. I will send her an icebreaker as soon as I'm home. Just reminded me to send June one too.

Edit: Couple of things I forgot to mention. Firstly got a sexual frame in after asking her out, she was talking about another open mic night soon (we had discussed open mic and karaoke, apparently she can sing if not well) and I said I saw more possibility in a karaoke private room, with a cheeky grin and both she and the sister laughed at this. Secondly my pipeline was totally fucking empty, Veronique has flaked after okay first date but with little sexual tension. More concerningly Lottie (Vietnamese chick whom Franco has helped me with) flaked too after 4 dates and all this stuff about how comfortable she is with me etc! Fuck! I could probably persist a bit, but I don't like how the last date went and I think it's time to NEXT her even if she does have a good explanation for not responding in 36 hours. Anyway so it's great to have something solid to work with again.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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Messages
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A useful(ish) outing

So today decided to do a few hours daygame in between dropping kid #3 at kinder and picking up kid #2 (normally I would go home for a sleep since I usually have only 4-5hrs due to the incompatibility between my usual routine and my kids routine).

I went to the shopping centre opposite my home, it's pretty big and ideal for daygame, but I haven't had good results there yet (just one insta-date IIRC and a few number closes that flaked). Time to give it another shot.

Cutting a long story short I did about 15 or so approaches, results not quite what I was hoping for. I warmed up by just talking to random people (a mum with a trolley full of party food -- is she having a party, what's the occasion etc... and a woman wearing hearing aids like mine which led to an interesting conversation)... then I started to hit up attractive women. However the only conversation of any note was with cute phone shop lady who I know through a mutual friend and who I've been deep diving a bit on and off (but she doesn't count, as a hired gun and Asian student)... What went wrong?

1) Approaching some girls I found intimidating (blonde, 8s and 9s, my own race, etc). A bit of neediness crept in, e.g. instead of trying to move them to a coffee shop, trying to accompany them somewhere.

2) MIxing up the approach. I tried a fair bit of the "hey, stop for a minute" opener which was mostly OK but I didn't proceed smoothly from there. I also used only genuine tailored compliments (not just "cute") and I think some of these might have sounded a bit random, the good thing about the "cute" opener is it clearly establishes you like their body.

3) Lack of approach anxiety, due to good warmup procedure. This has several effects (1) I get lazy and overconfident and start to cut corners, like not grounding my opener and not explaining that I just had to come and get acquainted (2) my facial expressions, too happy, I would have looked like a kid in a candy store, it's hard to get out a slow sexual smile when you are already grinning from ear to ear, I will have to tone it down a bit (normally I have trouble smiling during an opener).

4) My outfit, my usual daygame shirt was in the wash so I wore a more formal shirt which in retrospect works better for nightgame. I've bought some muscle t-shirts which I think will give a more casual look for daygame if I'm not wearing a shirt.

I need to be more reserved, more mysterious. Need to make them work harder for information about me. Generally sharpen up banter and conversation so I can hook more quickly in daygame.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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Messages
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Australia
Progress with June... I was a bit slow on sending the icebreaker but decided to take a risk and send it at midnight. Because I thought this would be better than the following morning. This is what transpired:
00:00 Ray: hi June, I'm home now at last :) I hope you got your omelette prepared for tomorrow :) cu Raymond [we had discussed diet foods, see also below]
18:35 June: Hello Raymond, how are you today? I just finished work and get home... Hope you had good day... :)
19:32 Ray: Yes similar thing here, busy day :) Lets grab that drink or bite to eat, how does your schedule look from Friday on [thanks Chase, I'm using the "grab" wording to avoid it coming off sounding like a formal date]
19:42 June: I'm going to work until 9pm or 10pm on Friday night... How about Sun ?
19:50 Ray: Okay..what time did u have in mind? earlier is better for me [I normally go to my mum's for dinner on Sundays, thought maybe I'd take June to Botanic Gardens in the day]
19:51 June: How about 7pm sunday night?
[fuck, drafted a lot of replies saying no what about later/earlier etc... eventually decided to KISS and blow off the family dinner, well this isn't a disaster because I've streamlined my social life considerably, ditched a whole lot of friends who tool me, and I'm also reducing contact with family for similar reasons, also I can't eat the food my mum cooks atm]
20:12 Ray: okay, then lets go to pho [restaurant], that's a permissible diet food :) :)
20:23 June: hehe ok cool... see you soon... have a good night :))
Yes this is promising indeed. Plan of attack:

1. We'll spend about 20~30min at pho but we'll probably have to sit opposite each other at a communal table so unlikely any kino. I'll order and pay for us in Vietnamese, they know that I do this in this restaurant so hopefully that'll be a bit of social proof. It's a bit of a fine line because I don't want to show off and/or become boyfriend material. At the same time there's guys out there who are into the bamboo and just want an Asian looking woman and don't care about their culture. I want to differentiate myself from those guys. Hmm. I'll try for some banter and deep diving over the meal. I'll ask her a bit about her dating experiences in Vietnam and in Australia to try and get a sense of how I can best close this deal. If appropriate I may drop some boyfriend disqualifiers in there (any tips/guidance on this would be appreciated).

2. When we finish I'll say "let's go" and grab her by the hand and lead her down the street. If she asks where we are going I'll say "you'll see, it's close by here". We will go to a bar which I like which is 3~4 city blocks away, very quiet on a weeknight and you can sit on a couch. She probably doesn't drink, so we'll just have soda waters and I'll see if I can get some touch and kino going. We'll stay for 1 drink.

3. Then again I'll say "let's go" and grab her by the hand and this time I'll take her to sit by the river, this is a further couple of city blocks away. We will go past my car and pick up something to sit on and a sleeping bag so we can be warm (someone mentioned they keep one in the car at all times, good idea). If she asks what is happening at this point I'll tell her we are going to look at the stars by night. Hopefully the weather is good (if it isn't I'll try to get a car based makeout going). Escalate...close!

Fingers crossed :)
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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Messages
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Australia
Another useful outing...day + night game

Before I begin, the stricter diet is going extremely well -- I've lost around 2~3kg this week. I had extra time with my kids b/c youngest son's birthday, house got trashed as usual, had a deadline at work, totally stressful week and my sleep has been all over the place but I had basically caught up by this morning (Friday morning) so went to the gym and then had a sleep in. I found it hard to concentrate at work so I shut down the computer at 17.30 and went sarging :)

Starbucks
I was on a mission to compliment everybody I spoke to that day, so I told the serving chick that I liked her earrings (she didn't hear so I said it again and she accepted the compliment), asked how she was going today and gave my order. She wasn't sure if I'd ordered soy or regular milk, so she asked me and I said regular, then kicked myself because I could have said with a straight face "Breast milk, please" and then laughed and told her regular. My idea is to go a bit BMOCy in this way, get it established early on that I notice her as a woman, and then say outrageously sexual stuff whenever it occurs to me.

Spoke to a number of cuties, one of them I stopped on the way to her table (while I was sitting down) and delivered the totally cute line, asked what she was up to and she said study so I teased her about setting up camp in there. Another one was doing psychology homework and I suggested she may need a human subject to practice on, but she wasn't too interested and returned to her work. As I was leaving I addressed the camping one by name and said bye, see you later and she was happy (smiled).

The street
Lost count here, some highlights... woman about my age with a yellow top I told her "I could not help but notice your yellow top, you look great" or similar and we chatted a moment, whatever event she was going to I told her she would have no trouble picking up guys in her current outfit and she laughed and we went our separate ways.

Another one was a hot 22-year old Eurasian coming out of a shop and I stopped her and told her she looked amazingly cute...for a Jehovah's witness. hahaha she was amused although she pretended to be cross, so I touched her arm and smiled and said I was only teasing her, at this point she introduced her mum who was coming out of the shop and so I chatted with them for a while, they invited me to their convention and I said "would there be more girls as cute as you?" and other similar stuff. Should have number closed the mum, she was a bit flirtatious hahaha but I won't be in their city in the near future I guess.

Another highlight was a lovely tall girl in black and white walking with 2 friends, she was slightly behind them so I stopped her for a moment and told her she was totally cute and she was happy, I asked what she was doing and if she was with the other girls and she said yes, I said "so does that mean you wouldn't have time for a quick coffee with me" and she said "I'm married, I don't have coffee with strange men" so I smiled and said "only discreet ones" and she liked that. I let her go on her way.

I called in briefly at a balcony bar but no women mingling around, there was one group which didn't look that approachable (at my current skill level) so I left.

Stopped a lovely tallish girl in a black lace dress who was crossing the street, I was halfway across the pedestrian crossing when I made eye contact with her and gave her a compliment and walked back with her, I asked what she was up to and she said meeting friends and indicated the meeting spot, I said "what would your friends think if they saw you hitting on strange men?" and she said "ohh, uhh, they wouldn't be too impressed!" and I replied "but they know you have a playful side"... and we batted this around a minute or so, she then said she was going to wait for her friends, so I touched her on the shoulder and wished her goodbye.

I also opened a hot young girl with shitloads of makeup on in a group, her friend immediately started telling me to fuck off, out of luck and so forth but I held my frame and
kept talking, teased the cockblocking chick about how she could go to the police academy to learn how to stop things getting out of hand, anyway it turned out I'd opened a 15 year old hahaha so I said something like "no way, thought you were much older, then again I could hardly see anything underneath all that makeup!" hahaha.

I then started walking down by the river to see if I could scope out a good private spot to set up the sleeping bag when I pull someone there, it wasn't great although possible. Approached another woman who was on the way to a dance class, she turned out to be married but was OK to chat for a bit, a funny thing happened when we walked in tandem up to a power pole or similar, she did not seem clear where she was going so I grabbed her around the shoulders and pulled her over to my side of the pole but I think she was a little freaked that I was getting physical and left soon after.

At this point I'd done maybe 15 approaches and I'd used a fair bit of compliance (hey, stop for a moment) and I had been on a mission to practice bantering and turning things sexual, for this reason I did not attempt any deep diving as I normally do (a lot of my approaches turn into a kind of 20 questions as I struggle to keep it going and I'm trying to avoid this). I failed to hook but nevertheless had a moderately entertaining time, and definitely improved my banter.

I made my way gradually around the edge of the city, wasn't too sure what to do, was hungry but unsure where to get food that would be OK for my diet, did various approaches here and there but nothing worth mentioning.

There was one woman I wished I had opened, I noticed her lace skirt as she was crossing the street a bit ahead of me, she seemed to be heading for a group of guys so I didn't open immediately, she then walked past them and I thought she would go into one of the bars in the street and I could casually come in after, but she continued on and I realized she was going into a carpark. By this stage she was a long way away and I have not really wanted to chase women down since I now have the "hey stop for a minute" opener in my toolkit.

I noticed that as it was getting a bit later (though not dark yet) it was much harder to find women alone, they seemed to have gotten into their groups or met their boyfriends for the evening. So eventually ended up back at the car, ready to start night game in the area I'd chosen (I went and grabbed some food in Little Vietnam on the way).

The beachfront
Since I now have public sex in my toolkit I'm less worried about logistics and I'm keen to find some venues further afield. After parking by the beach I went to the local pub but nobody worth approaching, if I'd had more balls I could have approached some small groups I suppose. I noticed a circle of about 20~30 hot young women in netball t-shirts in the main room of the pub, again it was a bit hard to approach, I noticed a pair with an empty seat either side and was weighing up the approach when their friends got back and filled the seats so decided not to worry about it (I don't want to approach from behind). So I decided to blow this place off and went back to the car to get changed into my nightgame gear, brush my teeth, apply more cologne etc.

The main street
For a Friday night it was pretty dead, there were about 10~12 bars on this street and I went into about half of them, I don't think I did any approaches inside but I did a fair few in the street, some of them were promoting (handing out coupons for stuff) so we kind of approached each other at the same time. The best one was circus chick, when she told me her occupation is circus training I stepped back a bit, looked her body up and down and said "wow, you must have a tight body hidden under all those layers" and she was up for it. I think I maybe could have number closed here, she was telling me a lot about places she goes in the city and maybe hinting to meet up there sometime, but I froze up a bit, I was trying to think of a yes-ladder but it didn't come, so after an awkward pause I just chatted with her a bit more and closed out.

The waterfront bar where I've number closed in the past
So I walked back past my car and down the beach some way to another main street and went to a bar I've been before which is near the beach. This was probably the best venue all night, because it wasn't too loud and there were heaps of women there, I would have approached about 10~15 and gotten pretty good reactions.

One of them seemed pretty keen but unfortunately I was cock blocked by the arrival back to the table of her group, there was a drink in front of me so I asked some guy if I'd taken his seat and he said yes, but instead of polite-me just getting back and returning it I stayed put, saying vaguely "oh... can we get another seat somewhere" and apparently they could. But some orbiter pulled my girl away to outside and I didn't want to chase so I just stayed at the table getting ignored for a while and then thanked them for their hospitality, shook hands and left to chat up more women at the bar.

In one case I told a tall woman "I couldn't help noticing how tall and cute you are" (this is a line which works well for me) and started chatting, but unbelievably got cockblocked by the same orbiter who came up and engaged her, so I started talking to her friend, who was also cute, and this went fine, except I overdid it with the chase frames (they were trying to leave and I suggested her friend was intending to stay and hit on random guys instead, and the one I was talking to got a bit offended and started doing that smirky sort of shrug that girls do when they're telling you to fuck off).

Chatted to various other people, some guys, a girl I'd opened earlier who turned out to have a boyfriend, etc, but eventually decided to blow. As I was leaving I had the following text convo with June from previous post:
22:48 June: Hi Raymond, hows your day? I hope you had a good day...
22:49 June: Do you still want to catch up? If so, may we make it on Sat afternoon if you are free becoz I'm working on sunday night as well...
23:07 Ray: yeah, we can do that...btw, where r u now? if u dont have early start we can go for a drink, im not far away (place) [it was probably unnecessary of me to push for immediate meeting but I was kind of bored and I felt it was an okay risk because June seems keen]
23:08 June: oh im in city
23:09 June: do u want to meet up at 5.30pm on sunday?
23:09 June: sorry i mean saturday
23:12 Ray: yeah thats fine, so I take it you're going to sleep now? how was work?
23:14 June: cool... Today is very busy... Yeah Im going to sleep now becoz im tired ...
23:14 June: Enjoy your night and take care ... Night :)) Raymond
23:16 Ray: cu tom. sleep well :)
This is astonishingly warm for someone I've only met so briefly. I suspect that she deliberately bumped into me as an IOI. This woman knows what she wants! hahaha

On the way out of this bar I also engaged one of the netballers "hey, are you one of the netballers I saw at [bar] earlier... I wanted to say hi but you were in a pretty tight group", we got introduced by name and she agreed they are pretty tight, told me a little about their adventure and noted that the group was down to about 50% of its former size... by this time most of the others had gained admittance so they went off to the bar, I think she touched me on the shoulder as she was saying bye so I probably could have persisted, but I decided to keep going (it would be uphill going trying to isolate her from her group I thought, and I didn't want to become an orbiter).

Totally crap venues
I then went to the fashionable shopping street some way from the beach which is supposed to have great nightlife etc, well it blew... went into one club for all of 20 minutes, the music was shit and the crowd ancient (without girlschase however I could only aspire to this kind of crowd, as it is I go for mid-20s women, 30s sometimes). I approached some women for the sake of form but they were pretty ugly. Came out and found I had a parking ticket, fuck! Tried another club and it was crap, there were some hot women but all sitting on couches or around tables in groups with lots of guys so it was hard to get a look in, I opened a few women at the bar but nothing doing.

The last club I went to try I couldn't find but eventually blew it off and decided to go to the city, this was a shame because I'm trying not to become a regular at my favourite city clubs (subject of earlier FR "badass night out" among others) but overall I had to go where I felt there would be the best chance of some pussy and that was it. Not to mention that I knew the music would be good and I could have a good time and just work a bit of game into it, instead of focussing totally on game.

The pussy factory
Yes lots of Asian totty as usual, but pretty tight groups which are hard to break into (Asian women are really into defending each other's pussies). Lots of drunk guys trying to grab women and pull them in for dances and so on. Which makes it a bit hard to calibrate since I have to show leadership without being like those guys. Anyway I certainly did more than 20 approaches, maybe closer to 30 (my usual shotgun style), I had some dances with drunk girls and copped a few feels (but blew them off when I realized they were drunk).

The chick there that I liked the most I'll call Connie. I saw her come in with 2 friends and noticed her style which was jeans, some kind of jacket/vest and a headband, she looked really interesting as well as being cute, quite dark skinned Asian looks and big sexy lips. So I gradually made my way over, pre-opened from the side and told her "I saw you come in and I couldn't help noticing your outfit, you look fabulous!" (I've been trying to impart more emotion into my compliments) and we got introduced, she then indicated her friends (who were dancing and I couldn't easily engage them) so I said "ohh, so I've gotta pass the test huh, get the picture" with a grin, anyway conversation wasn't really possible so I eventually disengaged, pinged her a number of times and eventually (much later) said to her something like "when you finish your beer come and have a dance with me" and she looked me dead in the eyes and said "ookay", however when I went to take her hand 5min later she wasn't into it, fuck, I persisted a bit and we started dancing together and looking into each other's eyes with me smiling a sexual smile that widened into a genuine smile cos I was really happy, that's when she ejected, oh well... so I went off to dance somewhere else, met other chicks and so on, but a bit of weird shit went on with Connie also.

Firstly I was dancing on the stage with some other guys around me when the first of Connie's friends came up onto the stage next to me, so I opened her with "hi there" and we started to do a sexy dance with the others watching... this went fine so she went back to her group and then the second one came up to me and did the same thing, got another sexy dance out and this was great too, had my hand on her arse which was really lovely (I digged this 2nd chick), anyway soon enough she goes back too and then I think they pushed Connie over towards me, she came up on stage with her back to me and I just placed my hands lightly on her shoulders and danced a little, but she ejected soon after... hmm was a little puzzled at all of their behaviour so a little later I followed Connie towards the bar and tried to verbally engage her again, first I tried to confirm her name was actually Connie and I hadn't misheard, but I should have just grabbed her by the hand and taken her outside to get to the bottom of things, I think I failed in leadership here by being too timid and basically too keen to try to differentiate my own "softly softly" non chasing approach from all the drunk guys. Anyway she ejected again after a very brief conversation that I could not really hear. But for some reason was hanging around me a bit, totally weird-ass shit all this.

I was in the process of chatting to a Korean chick when lights went up, but I could see this chick was not gonna detach from her group (it was very difficult just moving her outside so we could hear properly, as she insisted on going to get a guy friend to come out with us, she was still happy to talk but we got cockblocked by bouncer kicking us out), I suggested we all go for coffee nearby but nothing doing. So eventually I just left by myself. Towards the bottom of the stairs I spotted a guy I had made friends with, making out with one of the drunk chicks I'd danced with (tattooed girl, she looked hot even if she wasn't that svelte)... so I offered them a lift, thinking this guy needed a boost in the logistics department, but nothing doing, he was trying to figure stuff out with her, but she was drunk, so good luck to him I guess. I doubt he got laid.

The deep-house party
Wasn't ready to throw in the towel so I did what I did last time (FR: badass night out) and went by this other club, well paid $10 entry but the beats were not totally to my taste, there was a bit of pussy there but nothing like last time. Mostly pretty unattractive. After checking out the various dancefloors and evaluating various girls from the viewpoint of approaching, I went back to the bar, positioned myself behind a quite attractive chick, but failed to open when she turned towards me, realized I was tired and it was time to go home.

Wrap up
At this point I had been gaming for 10 hours straight. I think the most valuable part was the daygame (improved banter and early sexualization)... maybe if I can combine this with the deep diving which I can already do (but I want to make it deeper), then I might bring home the bacon?

However I think there was another factor to my lack of success which could be my voice fundamentals, I have a lot of trouble with my voice, because I am hearing impaired, and I am taking voice classes which have helped enormously, but improvement is very slow, especially as I do not really have time to do the homework properly. In the car on the way from daygame to nightgame I diagnosed that my voice could be an issue and I think I improved matters in this area for the rest of the night. Anyway I've been practicing breathing from my diaphragm (which is one of the main things taught in voice class) and this is useful because I need to breathe from my diaphragm in order to breathe properly while I'm doing my gunslinger walk (cannot breathe from your chest if you have your chest thrust fully out and upwards). Getting it. Yawn
 

ray_zorse

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All coming unravelled...damnit!

So a promising interaction is now in trouble, check out the latest from June:
14:06 June: Hi Raymond, may we catch up at 6pm becoz im afraid of i finish late a bit... Come and see me at [her workplace]
14:06 June: please
14:23 Ray: meet me outside (place -- near her workplace) (address) cant miss it. ill shoot for 18.15 could u close up by then?
16:21 June: becoz i have one friend go with me... do u want to go to (place...far away) to have something to eat with us? If so please see us at [her workplace]... we work there
16:30 Ray: wow showing me off already ;) lets postpone to another time that would be more private. after u get back to city tonite maybe.
17:03 June: ok
17:03 June: but its quite late
17:19 Ray: say 22.00ish?
20:01 June: hi
20:01 June: im in city (place)
20:01 June: wanna catch up at 8h30??
This is a bit rich, I'm now chilling with some friends and she's not replied to my previous text about arrangements and suddenly I have to jump... I don't want to comply directly but I still want to see her
20:05 Ray: yeah okay ive just had dinner w some other friends will leave in a bit. might be closer to 9
20:07 June: ok
20:27 Ray: on my way, meet me outside the police station cnr (street) and (street) in 20min
This was to give her time to walk there, it's a couple of city blocks through a heavily trafficked pedestrian mall so no issue getting there at all
20:50 June: please come to (place -- she hasn't left)
I was totally worried I would get there and find she was still with a group of friends and I would have no status other than an orbiter all night
20:52 Ray: nah, its too loud there, im not in party mode atm.. I know the place to go where we can talk a bit, get properly acquainted
20:58 June: becoz i live in (street)
20:59 June: if we can meet up here, its close to my place to come home afterward ... i hope u understand my situation
In other words there's fuck all hope of me getting sex tonight... I'm not too happy
21:02 Ray: oh well, maybe some other time.. ive just got to the bar, its called (name) bar opposite (originally proposed meeting place).. im comfortable here, can get u home later of course
21:08 June: Yeah, maybe I go home... I worked all day and thought catch up with you but its ok...
21:09 June: becoz Im quote tired now after work... but if u want to meet up,,I thought should somewhere close (street), its easy for me to get home... enjoy your night
21:12 June: and one more thing, I was not showing off anything with you... just my workmate was hungry, She asked me to have dinner after work but I remember the date tonight with u.. so just ask if u r interesting... just friends... its all
Not sure what she means by that last part, hope she's not saying I'm friendzoned, however the language of "date" seems to imply boyfriendzoned
21:17 Ray: yeah thats okay I was only teasing u, sorry I can be a bit playful like that & forget to dial it down w people I don't know well. look, schedule me a bit more time next time & im sure we can work things out...hope u get a good rest, long day eh xx
Hmm.. how did I do?

Maintained my frame... I was starting to think she was being a bit of a pain in the arse, constantly rescheduling the date and asking for compliance, have to knock this on the head if I'm going to get anywhere with her. But I'm sure I could have been smoother and navigated this resistance instead of going home dateless, especially given I'd already blown off my friends and driven all the way into the city... fuck, and she couldn't walk a few blocks to see me? Sounds like it was just going to be a quick cup of coffee and then "I have to go home" kinda deal, that's not OK when I'm the one investing and coming into the city to see her.

All I know is the old compliant me would have gone along with her demands and then wondered why her pussy didn't get wet, hopefully I have maintained the attraction? She certainly seems to be falling all over herself to justify things and becoming defensive, so this appears to be a sign of investment. That last text I did not really need to send, normally I try never to send the last text and I could have been an asshole and just ignored her. But I was worried she might go into auto rejection so wanted to be a bit nicer.

Anyway, around the time I texted "im comfortable here" I had started another interaction, got some solid investment by having these 2 girls at the next table come and join me at mine (I opened the first one with "hey, come over here" while the second one was at the bar, when she came back I had them move their bags, coat etc over to my table).

The first one was a barista by trade, had moved to my country 2 years back but this didn't give us much mileage. Frankly she was a bit boring. I tried to prepare to turn things sexual by asking about the conversations she has with customers at work, but she said she's just working at the machine all day. She wanted to know what I did and I said "we help companies to save money" and didn't budge, I just practiced some long pauses in the conversation while I stared at the bridge of her nose to get her talking again and this went okay, I'm not really that good at it but getting there.

The second one was a psychologist, not as hot but not bad. I asked her a few introductory questions about whether she's in private practice or research etc, and then turned things sexual by asking how she would handle having a hot man come in and talk all about his relationship problems while meanwhile she just wanted to jump his bones, she replied that she would refer him to someone else, I kept it going a little after this.

I was starting to get bored with psychology so I turned back to the first one and said "hey, have you got a new tatt?" as I had just noticed it (was a bit shiny, looked like some kinda film on it, as seems to be usual for new tatts and I asked about it). Got a fair bit of mileage out of the tatts too, asked her how she chose the shop and she mentioned she had used them before so I started teasing her about all the naughty intimate tatts she has, hehe it seems the original decision to go into this shop was pretty spontaneous so I qualified her on that.

Around this time they decided to move on so I guess I hadn't exactly hooked, if they'd decided to stay I might have number closed the tattooed one eventually, but I was really just practicing my banter and rapport.

I ended up leaving while they were settling their bill and so I walked around a bit, normally I would go out and replace my date by cold approach if she flaked like this, but it was 22:00 and I felt that street approach was not going to have as much potential as bar/club game however I did not feel like more bars/clubs so basically decided to go home.

I called into one bar on the way back to the car though, it looked quite expensive, crowd was in suits and fancy dresses and they were watching rugby (I had not bothered to put on my nightgame outfit and was still dressed in jeans and a muscle t-shirt, I looked pretty good though and had no problems getting in). I did 2 approaches:

The first approach was to a HB9 with curves in a beautiful dress, who came back to the bar and sat beside me after I'd ordered my drink (because she was in a group of 3, the other 2 were also good looking). I knew this might happen because I'd seen her handbag previously. She did not respond to my pre-opener touch (which was admittedly pretty subtle) nor my "hi there" which was slightly after, so I think she didn't want to be hit on and I didn't push it. I would have done better with a "hey stop there for a moment" opener as she walked past but unfortunately I was facing the bar and didn't see her until she came into her seat. This would have been great practice had she pre-opened. I later saw other guys trying to hit on her (at least that was my interpretation), not sure how well they did though.

The second approach was to a not-hot married lady sitting at a table near one of the TVs, I went over to her and sat down opposite (turning my body to the side as I sat in the chair so as not to be too intimidating) and asked her if she needed some company other than her mobile phone, I've found this to be a useful line in recent weeks. She said oh no my husband has just gone to get drinks so I asked her a few questions about her shopping (she had bags with her) and then said I'd leave her to it.

Yeah, anyway, time to get a good sleep for the first time in ages. The best thing I did today was going to the gym for a 5km run and a good workout with weights, gonna do the same tomorrow. The second best was the dinner, very enjoyable, though I only ate Vietnamese coleslaw (goi), it was very yum. The rest of the day was forgettable...

Edit: My other number close, that I thought was solid, but flaked, rang me up, didn't get me the first time so I sent a text "hey there.. sup?" and she rang again today, she wanted to say that she didn't want to go on a date, but she apologized for having given me the wrong impression, as she had not wanted to refuse her number (hahaha the power of the yes-ladder), I told her that was fine (actually although she was attractive I wasn't really feeling it primally in the first place), and that I really appreciated her having taken the trouble to clarify the situation, because most girls don't do that, and that I was happy that when we bump into each other again things won't be awkward, so then we just chatted a bit more about dating, asking people out and so on and got a few chuckles in, she's a really great girl so I'm happy to have that sorted.
 

ray_zorse

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Messages
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Taking a bit of a break from game, got some stuff to do on my dissertation. Kinda regret not opening a cute 30s-looking woman this morning, walking on a quiet street towards the Courthouse, probably a legal bod of some sort, I'd just picked up some stuff from there and was walking back to the car. Still I had to get to work...

I have setup a date with an older lady I met some weeks back while clubbing, she's not someone I'd put a lot of effort into, in fact I forgot her number was in my phone. We had tried to set up a meeting and failed to find a mutually suitable time (she works a lot) and then left it. Since my pipeline was pretty empty I got things going again, and I think she may be good to pull back to my place for a quick lay. I hope so.

Exchanged the following text with June, who I am rather keen on, have to keep reminding myself she's replaceable. Need to get that pipeline full or I'll slide into scarcity mentality again :(
12:11 Ray: hey June, its beautiful weather today :) how's your day? I'd like to do something fun with u, to make up for failed arrangements last time...what time u finish study? :)
17:08 June: Hello Raymond, my day is okay... I'm afraid I can not make it up today becoz Im busy today... I'm exciting for summer coming... becoz I will go to the beach...
Hmm for 5hrs I thought she was flaking for good and in that 5hrs I really regretted sending the previous text "yeah thats okay I was only ... schedule me a bit more time ... long day eh xx" because it removed a lot of the power from me in the interaction. Basically it was rewarding her for creating drama. Note to self: Any hint of drama go silent for 24hrs or more... Anyway looks like I have plugged a leaky ship maybe?

Not too sure where to go from here. I want to wait till tomorrow and say something like "bet you'll look cute in your summer bikini ;)" ... this would be kinda close to turning things sexual which is a good thing. But turning things sexual by text message is kinda risky too. Also giving girls too many compliments can make u look like an orbiter a bit. I dunno. I don't think I'll press for meetup ATM. It's always a bit risky proposing a time cos if they're busy and then you continue pressing for meetup, you look a bit chasey. In this case it was a calculated risk because I wanted to try to create urgency, guess that didn't come off.
 

ray_zorse

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I have had a fair bit of trouble getting myself to open women on the way to work, especially near the tram stop as I guess I'm sensitive to becoming "that guy"... well today I did some opens :)

As I got out of the car I spotted a woman in a nice dress, so I locked the car and walked at a slightly faster pace until I was alongside her, opened her with "hi there, where are you off to today?" well it turns out she was off to submit her thesis, so I asked a few questions like had she got it bound and had she applied for her thesis allowance etc (just to show I'm not clueless in these matters) and then I asked the topic, it was a creative writing thesis and basically a love letter. Haha! So I said a bit longer than the average love letter? Are you good at writing love letters? So how many boyfriends do you have, anyway? Just one was the answer. Not deterred I said I bet he loves getting the odd love letter and she agreed. I said you have to be careful what precedent you set though...once the frequency drops off ;) Then I realized this was a bit of a downer, I could have recovered by suggesting she get some more boyfriends to correspond with, or starting to talk about the explicit content of these letters, but actually she started walking across my path so I just put my hand on her shoulder to guide her and said I was heading off another way and left her. She was happy.

Halfway to work I opened another cutie, a little maybe middle Eastern girl who was coming out of an apartment, just locked eyes with her straightaway and said hello! She came a little closer and I said "I was just walking past when I noticed how amazingly cute you are", however I didn't deliver the line as well as I could have, voice fundamental a bit off and maybe looked a bit serious (though I added a smile eventually) and also didn't follow up with my name. We paused a moment and she said "thankyou!!" (in a cute accent) and made to leave, so I just touched her on the shoulder, smiled and continued on my way.

Then at the tram stop I spotted a tall girl in a lovely floral print dress playing with her phone while waiting for the lights, she was a bit away from me and I hate girls on the phone so I didn't open, but after I crossed the road I saw her coming my way so I turned back and said "hey, stop for a moment...that's a very cute dress you have on. My eye was drawn to you (touching her shoulder)... I'm Raymond", she introduced herself too and I asked what she was up to today, she said just going to work... I said the weather is so amazing today nobody should have to go to work!! and she agreed, I said "well I bet you'll brighten somebody's day in the office!" she asked what I was doing and I said just a half-day, I have a class later but I'll do some work first... she indicated the way she was going, I said me too, I asked what kind of work she does... she said she's a student adviser, I said "ohh...(sexy smile)...can you advise me on how to meet more hot women like you?" and she laughed and asked me what I do. I said we help companies improve their operations...realized this was a bit of a downer so then I said "but I prefer helping women improve their operations"... she laughed and said "how's that going, helping women with their operations?" I replied "today's results maa maa...medium!" she then indicated her building which is the same as my building. So we got into the foyer and I said "amazing, we are in the same building too, I'm on the 6th floor... why don't we go for coffee sometime?" and she said "come and find me!", skipping off towards the careers centre... I said "hey!! give me a bit more to work with huh!!" and she turned and wished me a great day and went. Haha.

I'm really getting better at the banter and taking things more sexual.... speaking of which I've just finished my Japanese homework. We are practicing "no wa" , "no o" and "koto"... Here it is:
Watashi no shumi wa karaoke o utau koto desu. (My hobby is singing karaoke).
Demo, josei to futari de heya ni hairu toki ni, utau no o wasuremasu. (But, when I go into a karaoke room with just a girl as the two of us, we forget to sing).
Desu kara, renshuu suru koto ga dekimasen. (That being so, I cannot practice).
Kore o suru no wa, uchi de ii deshou. (Doing that, would be better at home).
(Neisu ni suru no ga amari raku ja arimasen). (Doing it on the couch is not that comfortable).

Hahaha I've actually been taking my homework sexual for a long time even before Girlschase just for fun (and because I have the hots for the teacher), didn't realize how important it is though.

My Japanese teacher is very cute and we get on well, lots of banter and deep diving all the time, sometimes after a class our cheeks are sore from laughing. She says she loves her boyfriend so I have scaled back my plans to scale this summit. But it sounds like her life is pretty boring and reading between the lines I don't hear a lot going for the boyfriend except he sleeps a lot while she does the housework. Hmm.

But given recent escalation problem with the substitute teacher I have been racking my brains for a solution, I would like to give my number to my teacher and have her give it to the other teacher, which I'm sure she'd be willing to do. But the problem is this would not send a message of discretion and might embarrass the other teacher. So I'm not gonna do that. I think the best solution is simply to fuck the first teacher's brains out, and then have her pass on a recommendation to the other teacher. It's really the only way I can see. So I'm considering burning it down by at least asking my usual teacher out for coffee.
 

ray_zorse

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Just typed up a huge post about the interactions with the JP teachers and the 15~20 girls I opened today and the details of all the conversations. Clicked on something by mistake and it all disappeared. Fuck. I cannot be bothered entering it all again. Next time. Did an insta-date with an HK tourist and got a flakey number close with a Chinese business major who was hot hot hot. Nothing much to come of tonight's work except experience (forgot to apply the sexual vibe again so insta-date didn't go anywhere). Did exchange names with a hot tattooed bartender chick who I was flirting with last week, might be something there? Social proof since I bring all my dates to her bar, hahaha. Banter is improving, came out with a lot of outrageous sexual frames although mostly failed to hook because I was concentrating on banter rather than deep diving I guess.
 

ray_zorse

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Interesting day yesterday. Well firstly it was a fucking pear shaped day in Court and I wandered around the city for an hour or so getting my head together afterwards, spotted a few really hot women and was keen to approach but I was in my head a bit. Anyway so went and picked up my kids and had a pretty good time with them at the museum, etc. Ex fucked me over in the evening by being half an hour late to changeover (judge has given me an extra half hour, big woop, but this doesn't start till next week), anyway so I was late for my date. I didn't speak to ex or make eye contact, this would have looked a bit reactive but honestly I'm past caring, have been thinking for a while I'm rewarding her too much with my attention and I'm gonna stop this. I'll only acknowledge her presence if she's done something I want to reward.

The date!
I won't bother giving her a name, but anyway I met her some weeks back at a bar and number closed, I made friends with her friends too (who encouraged us to get together) but ended up moving on since she was in party mode and I was not getting the lurrve and was at risk of becoming an orbiter. She's oldish (40~50ish I think) but pretty cute. I had had trouble making a date with her due to her schedule and forgot her number was in my phone, but as mentioned in a previous journal entry I made a date with her when my pipeline got a bit empty.

So I followed process pretty well! Thanks Smith for your useful answers to my questions on process. Built some intrigue (I don't think she gathered a single fact about me, not my profession, my age, nothing, as I made noncommittal responses to her questions and quickly turned it back to her)... eye contact was not too bad although I didn't manage to make any sexually charged pauses since she talked a lot.

Because I was late she had chosen a dark spot outside in the beer garden and after I kissed her hello, I had to sit at 90 degrees to her, this was okay (and I got a bit of touch going by pretending to check her temperature after she said something and a few other bits and pieces), but after we got a second drink I moved her to a couch and started to get a bit of kino going. I took her hands and commented on her jewellery at length, commented on her toenail polish and sandals and ended up with her leg in my lap as she talked and talked, I didn't shut her down because she was sharing valuable emotional stuff & stuff about how she sees herself etc. So I was just stroking her leg a bit and holding hands with her intermittently. Nice.

I was trying to think how to structure the pull when a flautist started up and it got a bit loud, so I just said "let's blow"... her car was parked out front (she had pointed it out previously) and so I said "you drive, my car is further away, we can come back for it later" (this was a mistake, as will be seen, but I was keen that nothing interrupt the flow). We got in and I told her to go straight ahead. We kept talking, we have a common interest in motorbikes so this gave a bit of material. When we were about halfway to my house she said "where are we going, anyway?" and I said "straight ahead". Hahaha. I directed her to my joint and let her in (she stopped for a smoke while I went around the back, since I had left my house keys in my car, luckily the back door is never locked).

I poured some drinks while she took a toilet break. I forgot to have her take her shoes off, another mistake in retrospect. Now I put some disco music on and showed her the lights, smoke machine, lasers etc in my living room. In retrospect I wouldn't be such a showoff because it wasn't necessary. We started to grind together and I started to get an erection. At this point I was sittin' pretty. Next I commented on her tattoo and lifted up her shirt to have a look, it's a full back dragon one. Nice. This is where things went a bit pear shaped.

The missed escalation window
As I was lifting up the shirt she said she would take it off. I assumed she meant so I could see the tattoo better. I could see it perfectly fine so I said "oh you will...eventually". There might have been a bit more going on here, I'm not really sure, maybe I wanted to take things a bit slower and build a bit more comfort between us? But I can see as clear as day now, that I should have skipped some steps, trouble was I was following my own process and not adapting it to the circumstances. Had no idea this was an escalation window... thing is, if I'd done as she invited, she would have felt more in control of the seduction.

So as I put her shirt down and turned her around again to face me she started saying stuff like "I'm funny about being touched"... and I said "hmm, hadn't noticed that up until this point"... she then said "I have rules" with a pretty smart alecky expression on her face, this seemed utterly ridiculous to me at the time, she went on that she doesn't do one night stands so I laughed and said "well it's lucky we've met twice then isn't it"... she said something more about rules and I just smiled and said "right" and went in to kiss her. In retrospect this was a mistake (1) I acknowledged her rules (2) the kiss was reactive (3) I was too aggressive about it because I was trying to shut down her thread and I used too much tongue and it was basically a big "fuck you" and dominant move, it didn't feel good and I broke it off pretty soon.

Getting blown off
Decided to back off a bit and we went into the kitchen to get the drinks and talked a little more. After a while I decided to take another shot and so I led her by hand back into the living room/dance room and started to put some more music on. However she sat down on the floor and wouldn't get up to dance with me, indicating I should sit with her instead. I didn't comply of course. Eventually I got her up and went for a little more kino and she started getting into her bullshit again. So then I did something rather funny which was, I had pushed my mattress into my kids bedroom which is behind a curtain, so I just basically pushed her through the curtain and we fell into the bed. We were hugging on the bed and things were looking a bit better when good ol' logical brain kicked in again and she started getting antsy and saying stuff like, I had better let go or she could get angry. Hmm. I relaxed my grip and had her kiss me, but it wasn't passionate, and then she got up and said she was going and I could have a lift back to my car if I wanted. I said 5 minutes, lets just play around together for 5 minutes and then you can go if you still want to. She left. I stayed lying on my bed for a while, figuring she probably wouldn't really leave without me, but apparently after a while she's sent me a text (I saw it later) saying "bus is leaving if u want a lift..." and then went. Fuck. Hahaha I probably deserved this, the whole thing was pretty funny.

The take home
The interesting thing is that these days I don't even notice rejection, even though I'm not getting a lot of lays I'm firmly in an abundance mindset, all I could think about was how I was delighted to have managed a successful pull, I had followed process superbly, and then I started to analyze her strange behaviour (obviously she was DTF when she came to my place since she's not stupid, she knew where we were going of course)... and realized I had missed an escalation window, I just thought, thank God for Chase and GC since I would never have cracked this without help. Good stuff studs ;)

The aftermath
So now I had to go get my car, it was only 22.00 so it was easy to get a bus and a tram down there. This took about an hour. While I was waiting for the bus I saw a group of teenagers playing around at the adjacent bus stop, and I was really keen to approach this one chick in a long flowing skirt. But I was too chicken. Approaching groups is hard though. Anyway so I got on the bus and they continued their playing around, when I looked around to observe, a mature Chinese lady caught my eye and smiled. She was in the row behind me. So I introduced myself, well she barely spoke English, but she indicated she had just finished work and she is a masseur! Great stuff! So I got some kino going by having her flex her arms while I felt her muscles and complimenting her on how strong she is. She lapped it up. After a while we were still struggling to communicate so I had her move over and sat in the seat next to her (should have moved her into my row in retrospect). I tried asking where she lives, she didn't understand. I told her she is very pretty, she looks good and various other things and this went down well. We got to my stop so I grabbed her hand and attempted to lead her off the bus (I've been doing this kinda thing a lot lately), she wouldn't comply, but she farewelled me with a smile. I wish she had complied, imagine having a masseur in my rotation :) We could teach each other Mandarin and English too, talk about mutual benefit :) :) I wish I had got her number. Will have to be more focussed next time. Maybe I will see her again, since the shopping centre and bus station are right near my home... I hope so :)
 

Smith

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
1,017
Hey Ray,

Good job pulling her home!

The missed escalation window
As I was lifting up the shirt she said she would take it off. I assumed she meant so I could see the tattoo better. I could see it perfectly fine so I said "oh you will...eventually". There might have been a bit more going on here, I'm not really sure, maybe I wanted to take things a bit slower and build a bit more comfort between us? But I can see as clear as day now, that I should have skipped some steps, trouble was I was following my own process and not adapting it to the circumstances. Had no idea this was an escalation window... thing is, if I'd done as she invited, she would have felt more in control of the seduction.

So as I put her shirt down and turned her around again to face me she started saying stuff like "I'm funny about being touched"... and I said "hmm, hadn't noticed that up until this point"... she then said "I have rules" with a pretty smart alecky expression on her face, this seemed utterly ridiculous to me at the time, she went on that she doesn't do one night stands so I laughed and said "well it's lucky we've met twice then isn't it"... she said something more about rules and I just smiled and said "right" and went in to kiss her. In retrospect this was a mistake (1) I acknowledged her rules (2) the kiss was reactive (3) I was too aggressive about it because I was trying to shut down her thread and I used too much tongue and it was basically a big "fuck you" and dominant move, it didn't feel good and I broke it off pretty soon.
It's good you can recognize the missed escalation window, which means you will be much better at spotting it in the future and recovering from it.
When you decline her 'investment' to take off her shirt, it probably made her feel 'cheap', so she went on to say how she doesn't do ONS blah blah blah as her anti slut defense. You had the right idea to thread cut her when she's expanding on her rules, because you don't want her to invest the conversation on these rules that she will break later ;) In this case, it's probably better to address it (state your frame and belief) before she kept expanding on it then change the topic immediately. You could say something like: "Well I don't really do ONS too. Sex is just sooo much better if you have a real connection with another person! but anyway...want something to drink?" (of course, don't say this if you really just want a ONS and don't wanna see her again)
Or "Well I think being able to express your sexuality and enjoy sex is a good thing, and I respect women more if they are able to enjoy it too."
You're not trying to argue with her. You're just simply stating your belief and she could choose to follow it later if she want. Also, it would be very hard to disagree with this, and if you have been deep diving well and made her feel connected to you, then you're both gonna get what you want. If you kept escalating, she's gonna get the idea that you guys have some kinda connection.

Always err on the side of too aggressive. I think the kiss was an ok move to shut her up. How did she react to the kiss? and how did u react to her reaction?

We were hugging on the bed and things were looking a bit better when good ol' logical brain kicked in again and she started getting antsy and saying stuff like, I had better let go or she could get angry. Hmm. I relaxed my grip and had her kiss me, but it wasn't passionate, and then she got up and said she was going and I could have a lift back to my car if I wanted.
It would have been better here to pull away and rebuild comfort, but you were pushing the boundary, so it was a good learning experience.

Good progress!
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,981
Location
Australia
Thanks for the tips Smith, I will think about your question and respond from my PC later, just posting a quick smartpjone update. I'm in a touristy spot camping with my kids for the w/e. The campground is a bit of a disaster PU wise. So many obese couples in their 60s+... hope I never get too old to chase tail & settle... hmm.

It's hard to do any real cold approach with kids in tow so I'm just focusing on building conversation. Lovely chick in the coffeeshop this morning, thought it might be family run so asked if she was related to the older lady making coffee, she wasn't, failed cold read but no biggie. Exchanged a lot of smiles and some compliments but no real conversation.

Chatted to a couple of mums in the playground by our tent, didn't really get them talking about themselves though.

Introduces myself to a couple of Irish chicks in koala park, had previously asked them if they'd seen my son who ran ahead. Went for some compliance in telling them to walk with us, didn't get it.

Matters improved in the coffee shop with what looked like a small tour group (8ppl or so). Spoke to a hot chick to ask if she waa part of the group and where everyone was from. She turned out to be Belgian. A pair of them were Japanese as I had suspected. So I had one of them come over to my table and commenced a conversation of decent length in Japanese. I was totally locked in, she wasn't. Turns out she is pretty young and in high school here. I told her she looks older. I used PinotNoir's tip of referring to her as "chan". Eventually dismissed her to go eat her food. We decided to leave so I called past her table later to say bye and good luck w her homework (as we'd been discussing w/e plans, yeah bit lame I know).

It's a shame I switched focus to this group cos the barista was very friendly and chatty and goes to uni near my home. I might have number closed, only remembered about her after getting back to the car. I think it would be too weird now to go back to her workplace and re-engage her. Damn.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,981
Location
Australia
Hmm well today I actually stumbled upon a social event, had just gone to get some vegetarian food with my office buddy (a dude I went out for nightgame with in a previous FR), and went to the 2nd level of the restaurant and a whole lot of girls smiled at us as we came in, thought it was just the fundies talking, but as a matter of fact it was a postgraduate society meeting and they were welcoming us as new members, actually I knew a good proportion of the people in the room. Anyway, the girl who was organizing it I really liked (tall and Chinese) and we had a brief chat, she kept thinking I was a new student and saying she hadn't seen me before so I said we should definitely hang out together, it wasn't really that easy to get her number since she was busy organizing a big group of people but will chat to her later on.

So then we introduced ourselves to various other girls, heaps of them are Persian like my buddy and he seemed to be getting on pretty well with one of them. There's a hotty I've often seen in the kitchen, who also turns out to be Persian, I had her come over to our table and introduce herself, promised to chat with her later on sometime when I see her next. Then I turned my attention to some of the other Chinese girls there (as you do) and one of them was small and cute, I complimented her on her shirt and said she looked fabulous and chatted with her for a bit, but eventually we got separated (but only after finding out which floor and office she's in in my building, though it might be a bit weird to approach her there), and I only spoke to her once or twice for the rest of the night.

After the meal, and after getting to the bowling venue, I introduced myself to the final Chinese girl (by this stage I'd spoken to everyone female in the group and quite a few of the guys as well), I'll call her Yin. She turned out to be pretty cool and we talked about quite a lot of topics, she has only been here for a few months and I asked her a fair bit about life in China and vice versa. I gained a bit of compliance by having her sign herself into my team in bowling as well. In the breaks while we waited for our turn she seemed to be investing a bit, asking me things like what sports I play and stuff like that, we were sitting pretty closely and I had a bit of touch going, (actually I started this immediately upon getting introduced, guiding her off the staircase into the venue and so on). So this looked pretty promising.

I was just getting ready to number close her when she turned to another Chinese guy (who is a good guy) while I was having my turn and started a conversation with him, I realized I had better move a bit faster or he might end up with the goods, bided my time a little and after we'd both had another turn I closed with a yes ladder "you said you like bar and club right?" "what do you mean" "I mean you said that in China you used to go out a bit?" "yes" "and in Australia you need more people to hang out with right?" "yes" "so how about we exchange numbers and go out one night together, you and I?" she thought about this for a moment, smiled and said "okay"... so we exchanged numbers and a text and continued normal conversation for a bit. I also had her drink some of my drink of soda water and she seemed to be down.

As it was winding down we were talking about entertainment stuff and I asked if she has tried darts, proposing that when this finishes we should go and have a game of electronic darts together... I think some misunderstanding may have crept in here, her English is excellent but some things she needed clarification on here and there... after the game finished there was a fair bit of milling around, taking photos, getting shoes etc and I said to her, "darts?", I thought she agreed and I tried to set a discretion frame by saying "if we get separated while saying goodbye to everyone I'll just meet you there OK?" (it was next door), I'm not quite sure of her response but at the time I took it to mean we would just say goodbye and go there together. Anyway so after getting shoes we were still standing around, and so I said well let's go, the difficult thing was that the other Chinese guy was sorta hanging around, and I don't think she knew how to handle this situation, so I just took her hand and led her out, trouble was the Chinese guy was kinda following us, my problem was that if we fucked around then he would join us and we'd become a group and she'd invite him for darts and I couldn't isolate, so I wanted to fuck off out of there.

Anyway so we go into the darts venue, she was trying to tell me something on the way out of the other place and I had her repeat it a few times but it was kinda loud so I couldn't hear very well, anyway in the darts venue she was saying something like "oh did you mean now?" and I said yeah, I think she may have ducked out to tell the Chinese guy she was playing darts with me... anyway, she came back by herself so that was OK but the vibe seemed a bit different, she was saying stuff like she had to get back to the university and so on, asking things like how much did the darts cost and how long would it take and what was the general plan, I first said well it's still pretty early, we can make it up as we go along... ended up saying we could go back to the uni after darts... this wasn't too relaxing and didn't really have a good insta-date vibe but I suppose it was an insta-date of sorts.

Anyway I had her stay for one game which took a while, tried to get her to buy a beer for us to share but she seemed to be saying she'd left her purse back at the uni, hmm... went to try to get a beer anyway but had not enough cash, and card minimum was $30, so there was no real chance of getting any relaxant into her system... hmm I did my best anyway. The game was really fun and there's no doubt we were both enjoying ourselves.

We then walked back to the uni which took a pretty long time and I deep dived her quite a lot on the way, trying to get to the bottom of why she'd chosen this course etc... she said that she loved computers in high school but didn't understand how they worked, only how to use them and this is why she'd ended up in this area... expanding on this theme a bit and it's probably the closest I've come to a proper deep dive, a lot of my deep dives are shallower than I'd like. Trying to go deeper I said well every time you get in a car it's the same thing, you know how to drive it but not how it works... why computers instead of car mechanics for instance? Didn't get a satisfactory answer on this (I'm not sure if she understood the question properly) but ended up teasing her a bit, she had got good at bowling and darts and if I gave her a spanner she could become a car mechanic, why not :)

Sometime during this walk I proposed a further hangout back at her place, we could get a couple of cans of beer and chill for a bit there, she said no on account of her roommate... I agreed and tried to set further discretion frames in saying I prefer to do things discreetly and privately etc (she must have realized I was talking about us being alone together)... I then asked if she was hungry thinking maybe I could pull her back to my place to make some food but nogo, she was still full from the meal we'd had before bowling... so I just qualified her on having eaten the whole thing when a lot of other plates were barely touched... we went up to her floor, stopped at my floor but I didn't get out (perhaps should have ended things on my terms at that point)...

On the way between floors I said something like let's go together to get your purse or your bag or whatever it is and then we can go get my stuff from my office... she didn't seem down so I asked what her plans were, maybe she was talking about her officemates or something so I said okay, sure, if you're busy I'll say goodbye now (sounds a bit chasey / not closing out on my terms in retrospect), instructed her "come here" a few times but she didn't comply, however since she's only been in Australia for a month or two and only really hung out with Chinese I didn't think she understood I was going to kiss her goodbye, so I verbalized it and then went in for the kiss and she seemed okay with it. But as I left she looked a little confused about things overall. I'm not sure how I could have played this one better. Hmm.

Although I've been working on my sexual eye contact I didn't really get a chance to use it since we were constantly on the move all night. I used touch but probably fell into the trap of using too much, she early on did invest with a bit of touch but I felt her investment was diminishing throughout the course of the night, maybe I wasn't mysterious enough or came across too chasey / needy... hmm. Getting women to invest is a real problem area for me and its the thing that Smith has been helping me with, I need to use cold reads more and ask a lot less questions, since I often seem to be driving the interaction as here. Also, although it was a fun hangout and she shared a fair bit about herself, I had difficulty turning things sexual, I guess I should definitely have done this more aggressively, even though it was social circle.

Oh well. Another useful experience, but similar sticking points to what I've been struggling with lately.

Edit: I now realize when she doubled back to square things with the Chinese dude he probably said he would wait for her at the office (he is probably the officemate she referred to at the end), which would have given her a time limit, put a huge dampener on her vibe and activated her anti slut defense. What a major cockblock. Honestly he heard a few fragments of our conversation (although I was being pretty discreet) and should have realized I was gaming her and to get the fuck out of the way, instead acted like a white knight / defender of the culture & vagina. At least that's my take.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
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Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,981
Location
Australia
Just a PS to say this would have been easier to handle if I had had my own city pad, my logistics suck. I managed to pull a girl home once from the city (LMR, gave up too early and accepted her frame), have all but given up hope of repeating the same trick. Have been househunting for quite a while. Last night was poring over the listings for the millionth time that week and decided my expectations were unrealistic and I had better lower my standards.

So I started getting pretty keen to pull the trigger on this 2-bedroom 2-bathroom in an ultra-modern 40 level tower that I've had my eye on. It's not my 100% preferred location (which is the main street and so tightly held it's ridiculous), but it's only one block away and has the advbantage of being half a block from a very upscale shopping mall that I want to pull chicks from (both locations are either side of a major underground train station and have trams, so transport isn't an issue).

So I called the real estate agent in the morning and inspection is difficult because it's tenanted and the price is too high (this may be why it's been advertised for a while). But I think maybe we can do business. She is gonna call me back. C'mon let's fix these fuckin logistics!!
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,981
Location
Australia
A cool morning. Went to the appliance barn to get a garment steamer since my best shirts are getting wrecked from constant ironing. Resolved to pay everyone a compliment since I did not do this last time while buying a keyboard and let a cute Asian with pearl earrings get away. Well actually chickened out or did not see good compliments in the moment but spent some time chatting with chick in ironing dept, Firstly about ironing and lifestyle issues, then as it turned out we were both crouched on the ground checking some boxes for water capacity etc and it felt kinda intimate so I started asking her more personal questions/started to cold read, when we were both laughing together I asked if she's single, well she isn't so I said I had better not interfere but otherwise I would definitely have asked her out for a not - coffee (a joke because neither of us drink coffee yet she sells coffee machines). She was happy. Then went back to chatting/deep diving and concluded the sale. I bet she will get a bonus cos I bought 5 yr warranty as I always do. She was touching me a fair bit as we went over to the register, wonder if I could have made sth from this interaction? Also did a cold read on the register chick by asking if she was Indian and then saying at first I had thought her accent might be American, yup well she opened right up explaining she had lived with relatives in America and Canada for a time growing up, etc. Overall good start to the day.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,981
Location
Australia
Usual Tuesday afternoon/evening daygame. A ton of approaches, only got to the hook once. She was sharing etc, went for a rather awkward and hesitant yes ladder, she prevaricated a bit and eventually offered her number but I declined saying I didn't think it was worth it if she was just being polite. Have not managed to capture a teasing or playful vibe really so either I'm in a more serious mood or I need to change it up. Hmm. Having a meal while I rethink.
 
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