Marriage A video every guy should watch before commiting long-term

[POB]

 

[TestY]

While it's fair to look at someone who has experience, I'm inclined to think that a divorce lawyer will have a biased selection: his professional experience will be with divorces - not happy marriages. This can easily lead to becoming jaded and cynical. In my opinion, this is unhelpful.

I prefer to look at positive role models, people who through a long life of marriage have proven it to work, and learn from them. Most people will want a family after 40.
The Art of Manliness: Why the Secret of a Happy, Successful Marriage Is Treating It Like a Bank Account [Classical Humanism]
Tony Robbins: Ultimate Relationship Program [Modern Maslowian humanism]

 

[POB]

While it's fair to look at someone who has experience, I'm inclined to think that a divorce lawyer will have a biased selection: his professional experience will be with divorces - not happy marriages. This can easily lead to becoming jaded and cynical. In my opinion, this is unhelpful.

Have you seen the whole interview?
He talks a lot about love, the burden of routine, how small things matter, how to not let a marriage fail, how people behave when they start to check out, etc, etc.

 

[Skills]

Exelent video I thought it was going to be red pill crap, but video legit.....

 

[TestY]

Have you seen the whole interview?
He talks a lot about love, the burden of routine, how small things matter, how to not let a marriage fail, how people behave when they start to check out, etc, etc.

Yes, he might have some nuance in there. I haven't seen all of it, but my personal takeaway is that he is mostly jaded and cynical about marriage. As an example, he says this near the end at 58 minutes:

Q: How many marriages are genuinely happy - how many married couples?
...
A: Here's what I'll tell you. I know a lot of people and I think I know one couple that has like a genuinely happy marriage.
...
Marriage is like the lottery you are probably not going to win.
...
I've met hundreds if not thousands of couples, and I've met one that is legitimately happy. ... Buy the ticket I guess, but don't make that your retirement plan.

 

[POB]

Yes, he might have some nuance in there. I haven't seen all of it, but my personal takeaway is that he is mostly jaded and cynical about marriage. As an example, he says this near the end at 58 minutes:

Is he wrong?
Are you really saying that getting legally married (especially without an enforceable prenup, like most guys do) is a good idea for a man in 2023?

 

[Conquistador]

Is he wrong?
Are you really saying that getting legally married (especially without an enforceable prenup, like most guys do) is a good idea for a man in 2023?

I haven’t watched the whole video yet but about that, the social context is what matters. If there’s any kind of social or religious promotion of stable marriages, that usually improves the odds drastically. Whereas if she can just go file for divorce, get an absurdly generous settlement, and get moral support from her friend group for her decision (Sex and the City style) then there is little incentive for her to stay if she gets even a bit unhappy.

 

[POB]

Whereas if she can just go file for divorce, get an absurdly generous settlement, and get moral support from her friend group for her decision (Sex and the City style) then there is little incentive for her to stay if she gets even a bit unhappy.

Which is basically how the western society works today...

 

[Skills]

Yes, he might have some nuance in there. I haven't seen all of it, but my personal takeaway is that he is mostly jaded and cynical about marriage. As an example, he says this near the end at 58 minutes:

I think you have to watch the whole video for context, the dude is actually no jaded... I gave it to my main to watch due to the positive aspects on the video, there are some things in there on relationships dynamics that I found positive and valuable. She thought it was red pill Tate stuff cause she didn't watch the whole thing... watch the whole video...

 

[Chase]

In my circle of friends and family, off the top of my head I know of:

• 4 marriages that are happy
• 2 marriages that are content
• 3 marriages I’m uncertain the status of (no obvious fighting / tension / seem to work fine together)
• 1 marriage that was content for a while, started to divorce, but divorce broke off (but still unhappy)
• 2 marriages that were happy for a while but divorced
• 2 marriages that were never happy and divorced

The only ones a divorce lawyer would have seen would be the last five. I assume that would color his perceptions.

I’d still be cautious getting legally married in a Western state today. Dot your Is and cross your Ts when it comes to asset protection. Child custody is the other major thing to worry about (the cancelled divorce I know is because the guy thought he would get primary custody of the kids, but the courts disagreed, so he opted to make up with the wife to still be around his kids). But I will tell you, of the divorces I have seen:

1. One was between a sociopath and a chronically depressed girl (the “cancelled divorce” one).
2. One was between another sociopath and an illegal immigrant girl (he forced 3 abortions on her while married and told her he would have kids someday, just never with her).
3. One was a late 30s woman who roped a guy in with two pregnancies he didn’t really want.
4. One was a playboy who married a “nice girl” who grew self-conscious about her body as she aged and stopped having sex.
5. One was a couple who were pretty happy but moved to San Diego. Every couple that moves to San Diego breaks up.

The first three divorces pretty much anyone could have predicted would end in divorce. The fourth divorce you couldn’t have predicted at first, but once the wife stopped putting out the writing was on the wall. The fifth one, well, I guess you’d just have to know everyone breaks up when they get to San Diego.

tl;dr: if you’re unhealthy from an attachment/relationship standpoint, or go for unhealthy chicks, OR you plan to move to San Diego, be extra careful about legal marriage.

Chase

 

[POB]

I think you have to watch the whole video for context, the dude is actually no jaded... I gave it to my main to watch due to the positive aspects on the video, there are some things in there on relationships dynamics that I found positive and valuable. She thought it was red pill Tate stuff cause she didn't watch the whole thing... watch the whole video...

He gives a somewhat masculine viewpoint...yet very balanced and fair to both sides
Even said at some point that he was not a good husband....but is a great ex-husband lol

Although that kind of honest talk is kinda of a front assault on women's Disney tbh
Maybe this is why your girl didn't like it

 

[Skills]

He gives a somewhat masculine viewpoint...yet very balanced and fair to both sides
Even said at some point that he was not a good husband....but is a great ex-husband lol

Although that kind of honest talk is kinda of a front assault on women's Disney tbh
Maybe this is why your girl didn't like it

No she just watched a portion which is my point...most people didn't watch the whole thing...she ain't Disney...

 

[Gunwitch]

While it's fair to look at someone who has experience, I'm inclined to think that a divorce lawyer will have a biased selection: his professional experience will be with divorces - not happy marriages. This can easily lead to becoming jaded and cynical. In my opinion, this is unhelpful.

He's been doing it 20 years. I've been teaching pickup 20 plus and when I meet people new to it they don't know a thing. People teaching it 10 years can't sit and coherently talk about it like this guy for an hour. They'll struggle to fill a 10 minutes podcast interview. He doesn't seem angry (jaded or cynical) in any form, he has really coherent insights he can articulate well. Counter points are fairly childish in comparison.

So I think dismissing him in that way is fairly bias on your end instead, because of your hopes and values. He is talking facts of what he has learned and articulating them other than "most will want" emotional arguments.

Bottom line to me in about 20 or 30 as he puts it "pair bondings", chemicals wear off for most couples eventually, even if they don't believe it now. They will when it does if their relationship is based on them chemicals.

Most couples don't base their relationship on shared responsibility or enjoyment of each other, they base it on said chemicals.

Bringing legal eagles, government of any kind, doctors etc into anything unless you absolutely need them is inviting a fuckin demon in your house.

They used to shove sponges bare in women's chests for implants, cops can take your kids if they see you haven't emptied the trash that day, and even this guy, candid as he is, he is full of shit, maybe his are, but most pre-ups aren't enforceable. No contract is a get out of court free card, I could track you down and sue you right now for some bullshit you ignore and get a summary judgement then sue your wages or bank account for garnishment. Much less married with some pre-nup. It's all a business and they're all in it together laughing at you.

The less people involved in anything the better off you are.


Gun

 

[Will_V]

Yes, he might have some nuance in there. I haven't seen all of it, but my personal takeaway is that he is mostly jaded and cynical about marriage. As an example, he says this near the end at 58 minutes:

Yeah, that sounds extremely jaded.

First of all, what does he mean by 'genuinely happy marriage'? Most people are not happy a lot (if not most) of the time for all sorts of reasons, and I would imagine even less so when arriving at an appointment with a divorce lawyer.

So what does it mean to be in a happy relationship? Relationships are not really about happiness and bliss. They are about supporting eachother through all of life's successes and failures, and being able to take on responsibilities that would be too much for one person (e.g. a family).

Imagine polling or assessing at face-value the happiness of CEOs, I doubt many of them would look happy (least of all while arriving at an appointment with a bankruptcy lawyer). Being a successful CEO isn't about being happy, it's about achieving the goals you set out to do, handling obstacles and catastrophes for the success of the entity you have built. That's more what a marriage is like.

And that's why so many guys fail at it. They get into relationships on some low point to bolster their self esteem, hang all their emotions on it, get lazy with it, and don't think of it as an investment toward a goal, a goal for which everyone requires their leadership and their correct decisions under pressure.

I didn't watch much of the video so I can't comment on the rest, but I noticed he's doing the rounds on the red-pill side of youtube.

Anyway, the way I look at marriage/LTRs is the way I look at starting a business. I know it's possible, and I know most people do a terrible job at it and fail and that's not the least bit surprising. That doesn't mean it will be easy, or that I will foresee every problem and deal with it properly, but if that's the risk I have to take to build a family and have a lot of little me's running around, I think I can handle it.

 

[POB]

I didn't watch much of the video so I can't comment on the rest,

Please do

but I noticed he's doing the rounds on the red-pill side of youtube.

This is irrelevant tbh

Marriage was never about happiness, or success vs fail, or personal fulfillment
G-zus if guys still believe it
It's a contract about raising a family while you are (mostly) sure the kids are yours
And in our modern days, if you are not careful, it's a contract that can be voided and raped by third parties 100% IN HER FAVOR

If you don't want to raise a family, you don't need to be married
Heck, as a man, you are probably better off staying single forever if you don't want kids
Simple as that

 

[Will_V]

Marriage was never about happiness, or success vs fail, or personal fulfillment
G-zus if guys still believe it

Most relationships and marriages are started for emotional reasons, so yes, people still very much believe that, and it is a big factor into how the result plays out.

It's a contract about raising a family while you are (mostly) sure the kids are yours
And in our modern days, if you are not careful, it's a contract that can be voided an raped by the government 100% IN HER FAVOR

Yes, this is a problem. I think there are a lot of ways and means to minimize the risk, but at the end of the day it's a risk and that's just the way it is. Everybody's got their own choice to make.

Divorce happens because of the the inability to lead people. And most guys are utterly useless at leading or influencing anybody (least of all themselves). That's why, for most people, society needs to provide a harness for them that makes it very difficult for anything to go wrong.

Sometimes I think of women the way I think of a big wild cat like a panther. When you understand them, they are incredibly predictable, consistent, and easy to read and influence. But if you fumble, get lazy, or do some dumb shit, you might get your arm bitten off. Well, that's the price of having a beautiful cat! Not everybody has to have one. And if your arm goes, it's mainly you to blame.

If you don't want to raise a family, you don't need to be married
Heck, you are probably better off staying single forever if you don't want kids
Simple as that

That's the thing, the large majority of people want to be parents and have kids. So I don't believe that much of the reason why marriages fail is due to people getting married out of ignorance that it's unnecessary.

That's why the red pill nonsense about 'spinning plates' forever and dumping her the first time she looks at you the wrong way is ultimately useless, it's only good if you want to be one of those guys that opt out of the race, and those guys are very much in the minority.

So the marriage problem is one the large majority of guys actively want to solve. And considering that 50% of all first marriages don't end in divorce, I think it's pretty off the mark to go around saying that marriage is a lottery that you probably won't win.

Are guys that uncompetitive these days? Personally, I don't consider failure to be an option for me for anything that has more than a 25% chance of success, because if I'm not in the top 25% at a bare minimum I'm wasting my time even being here.

I watched part of the video and wasn't too impressed, I'd probably rather watch someone who has coached a lot of marriages to success rather than someone whose wage is made when they fail. Nothing personal but he's not the guy I would pick as my coach.

 

[POB]

Divorce happens because of the the inability to lead people.

Nope
Divorce happens because of biology (and it can be maximized by external factors)
Men and women were never meant to be long-term monogamous
You can lead your woman all you want...if she wants to cheat, she will...if she wants to go, she will... leading just prevents it will happen suddenly, but the risk is always there. Your own cat comment contradicts that statement.

Now add kids, routine, family, apps and government interventions into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster
Personally, I think it's sad really, because the fairy tale is really beautiful....but that's just reality

And most guys are utterly useless at leading or influencing anybody (least of all themselves). That's why, for most people, society needs to provide a harness for them that makes it very difficult for anything to go wrong.

Except it goes wrong
All the time

That's the thing, the large majority of people want to be parents and have kids. So I don't believe that much of the reason why marriages fail is due to people getting married out of ignorance that it's unnecessary.

Look at gun's comment
He is spot on

That's why the red pill nonsense about 'spinning plates' forever and dumping her the first time she looks at you the wrong way is ultimately useless, it's only good if you want to be one of those guys that opt out of the race, and those guys are very much in the minority.

Red pill has the right diagnostic....but the wrong medication

So the marriage problem is one the large majority of guys actively want to solve.

I don't think so
If that was true, guys would just stop getting married until the system is fixed

And considering that 50% of all first marriages don't end in divorce, I think it's pretty off the mark to go around saying that marriage is a lottery that you probably won't win.

I think the overall number is north of 70%

I watched part of the video and wasn't too impressed, I'd probably rather watch someone who has coached a lot of marriages to success rather than someone whose wage is made when they fail. Nothing personal but he's not the guy I would pick as my coach.

Fair enough

 

[Will_V]

Nope
Divorce happens because of biology (and it can be maximized by external factors)
Men and women were never meant to be long-term monogamous
You can lead your woman all you want...if she wants to cheat, she will...if she wants to go, she will... leading just prevents it will happen suddenly, but the risk is always there. Your own cat comment contradicts that statement.

I disagree with this. As one example, it's pretty well established that education level is inversely correlated with divorce.

Whether women and men are designed to be monogamous or not is an interesting question. Personally, I don't think we are designed one way or the other. The psychological reward system can be activated in many different ways, what becomes disfunctional is when it is activated by things that are contrary to the long term relationship, and is not exercised on things that are aligned with it.

The same way that some people are very happy devoting their entire life to a building an illustrious career or working on some decades-long task, and others who can't imagine not spending the majority of their life just having fun or looking for variety. Neither of them will last in their choice unless that choice rewards and satisfies them consistently.

Now add kids, routine, family, apps and government interventions into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster
Personally, I think it's sad really, because the fairy tale is really beautiful....but that's just reality

Except it goes wrong
All the time

According to most of the data I've seen, the 50% divorce rate was for the 70s and divorces have actually been falling for some time and now it's around 40%, I imagine because of the rising standards of living especially. I don't have time right now to put together a proper analysis but I don't see anything like 70% divorce, at least not for first marriages.

I don't think so
If that was true, guys would just stop getting married until the system is fixed

That's not how guys think, because they only get one life. Who knows when the system will get fixed? They still want a wife and kids. And they still end up finding some special girl and want to take that chance. And that's all well and good, because without that mentality we would have all died out a long time ago.

I think overall we just have a slightly different way of looking at risk. And that's fine, because risk is neither truth nor falsity. But I do believe in my ability to lead a marriage to success if I really wanted to.

 

[Bismarck]

Divorce rates in Portugal are 94%.

 

[Conquistador]

Divorce rates in Portugal are 94%.

The raw number is partly misleading as it’s just the ratio of new marriages to new divorces and there are demographic changes happening. Per capita rate is normal for Europe.

Portugal has a divorce rate of 94% | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com