Advice on "The Informative Date"?

[Hue]

Recently had a Tinder match with this cute Asian from my school. Here's the convo (not totally necessary to read if you're familiar with these dates but I put it for total context).

Last Wednesday
Me: uh oh here comes trouble
Her: You saying you're trouble?
Me: lol I didn't say that necessarily, but maybe I was talking about [her name] (let's call her Julie)
Her: Oh shit? Me?????
Me: or I don't know are you a goodie two shoes?
Her: Definitely not, but I wouldn't call myself trouble
Me: haha okay, everything in moderation (;
Me: I guess last week (spring break) was the main time to let loose, though I'm already missing vacation
Me: you do anything exciting for vaca?
Her: Nope lol I was just lazing around home, what'd you do over break?
Me: yesss Texas was amazing! a lot to say over text, plus I don't want to brag too much (;
Me: would you want to do something this weekend? I'm pretty broke run so just something casual like coffee/drink haha


Thursday Night

Her: Sorry didn't see a notification, and totally! I can't do this weekend tho bc I have midterms to study for


Friday Morning

Me: sounds like you'll need a study break! when's your midterm?
Her: It's on Wednesday but I haven't started studying for it at all lol
Me: Well you can take an hour or two off for coffee this Sunday lol if we don't shoot for it soon chances are we'll forget and flake on eachother later on (I'm surprised she didn't fully auto-reject from this)

3 hours

Her: True

4 hours

Me: lol


Saturday Afternoon

Her: Well, if ya wanna get coffee sometime today or Sunday I'd be down

(I didn't look at Tinder till Monday, she probably thought she missed her chance)


Monday Morning

Me: hey, I just got around to seeing this and ended up working the whole weekend. we could do Wednesday after your exam if you're still down?
Her: Sounds good to me, I get done at 1:35 so any time after that
Me: sweet, my last class is at 3, so let's shoot for 4:30-5ish
Her: Sounds good!
Me: great! I'm a big fan of [coffee shop] if you've ever been. good luck on your exam (;
Her: Yes I have, but since it's so far away I rarely go there lol
Her: But thanks!


Tuesday Evening

Her: Hey, I think I'll have to leave around 5:40 because I totally forgot about a meeting for my scholars group I have to attend

Overall, I don't see a whole lotta problem with here but there's little no chance I can move that quick and still smash without her finding an easy excuse to let any possible LMR halt her sexual instincts.

So, I'm gonna have "the informative date" and then end the date on my terms, then invite her straight over to my house for dinner a few days later / next week since I'm broke.

I looked for an article about this type of date and couldn't find any so I wanted to ask if there were any general differences between this type of date and a date where you have the intention to pull the girl home. Unless a wild card pops up I almost always try to fuck the girl on the first date, and usually I can at least get her back to my house so this is weird to me. What are some tidbits y'all are knowledgeable of?


I also thought that maybe I could just meet her later that night, but at the same time I wanna try this out for fun

 

[Seppuku]

Hey Hue!

The idea is that this date is a preparation for the bigger one at your home. What you want is to have her sufficiently excited and curious about you so that she wants more of you and eager to see you again. But not too excited that her emotions crest and fall flat in a failed window. It's all about calibration.

To do:
* Build emotional connection (get to know her and make her talk)
* Break physical contact and touch her
* Give some (light) sexual tone to your conversation
* Keep the date short (1h or 1h30 ideally) so that you leave her wanting for more

To avoid:
* Touch her enough to make her horny
* Kiss her
as these will tend to spike her emotions a little high (as you know, when her emotions spike you have to conclude right away before they cool down or else no second date).

I hope that helps!
Seppuku

 

[Hue]

Seppuku,

Thanks for the outline! This is exactly what I was looking for and makes total sense. I think I get the idea of how this usually plays out.

Unfortunately she flaked for her meeting, so I threw the ball in her court. But now I'll know the general strategy going forward next time this sort of thing comes around.


Hue

 

[Witcher]

Hey Hue!

The idea is that this date is a preparation for the bigger one at your home. What you want is to have her sufficiently excited and curious about you so that she wants more of you and eager to see you again. But not too excited that her emotions crest and fall flat in a failed window. It's all about calibration.

To do:
* Build emotional connection (get to know her and make her talk)
* Break physical contact and touch her
* Give some (light) sexual tone to your conversation
* Keep the date short (1h or 1h30 ideally) so that you leave her wanting for more

To avoid:
* Touch her enough to make her horny
* Kiss her
as these will tend to spike her emotions a little high (as you know, when her emotions spike you have to conclude right away before they cool down or else no second date).

I hope that helps!
Seppuku

Hey Seppuku,

I'am currently only running informational for the logistical problem but also of skills. My biggest SP is how to end them, if not with a kiss what would be the best way to do it? Hug, handshake, check Kiss( Like french do)? This really confuses me and make many of my dates not ending ion the best way despite having a very good beginning and middle, and we all know the end is everything!

Second thing, what would be the best way to proceed after the date, text few hours or the day after? Should the invitation for the next date be on that initial conversation or in another one?

I'" am asking all this because so far all of the stuff you gave me or in the forum kinda worked perfectly...

 

[Seppuku]

Witcher,

I'am currently only running informational for the logistical problem but also of skills. My biggest SP is how to end them, if not with a kiss what would be the best way to do it? Hug, handshake, check Kiss( Like french do)? This really confuses me and make many of my dates not ending ion the best way despite having a very good beginning and middle, and we all know the end is everything!

To be frank, if you're a beginner, getting girls on a second date is actually *harder* than pulling her home during date 1. I don't recommend a two dates system to a beginner. Figure out your logistics beforehand, get her on a first date, pull her, then escalate. That's my best advice. Once you're confident enough that you can handle that, then see about getting girls on two dates.

Now to answer your question, the best way to end the first date is on *your* terms. It means, it's be about an hour, she's still into it, but then look at your watch and tell her that you have to go.

If I use a two dates approach, I personally wouldn't kiss her or shake her hand or hug. Might seem a little cold... But at the same time, during this one hour I was deep diving and touching her. So this way of ending the date is just adding to the tension... Unless of course *she* shows a sign of wanting to kiss. It's a different dynamics then, she's chasing, so I oblige her as a reward.

Second thing, what would be the best way to proceed after the date, text few hours or the day after? Should the invitation for the next date be on that initial conversation or in another one?

That's a problem you won't have if you pull and escalate on date one. Because after you had sex with her, she will normally be the one chasing you for second time!

But then, you can always plant the seed for a second date, during your first date. What I do usually is to hint about my cooking. Usually a girl can't imagine a guy cooking for himself, so it's a wow moment, and I plant the idea of a dinner home. Getting the second date at my place will be easy. Well if you don't cook, you can always hint at this fantastic playlist of [xxx] music you have at home, or any other thing to bait her.

In any case, you need to have a full plan beforehand, from beginning to end. If you go to a date without a clear end game, it's going to be difficult to get anywhere. Is it what's happening to you?

Seppuku

 

[psheer]

That's a problem you won't have if you pull and escalate on date one. Because after you had sex with her, she will normally be the one chasing you for second time!

But then, you can always plant the seed for a second date, during your first date. What I do usually is to hint about my cooking. Usually a girl can't imagine a guy cooking for himself, so it's a wow moment, and I plant the idea of a dinner home. Getting the second date at my place will be easy. Well if you don't cook, you can always hint at this fantastic playlist of [xxx] music you have at home, or any other thing to bait her.

In any case, you need to have a full plan beforehand, from beginning to end. If you go to a date without a clear end game, it's going to be difficult to get anywhere. Is it what's happening to you?

Hi Seppuku,

On a related note, I recently had a date with a bombshell through an online app. The date was going really well. We met a coffeeshop first and then changed venues to a bar. There was some touching involved, mostly through my initiation. However, at one point in the convo she asks me how the online app is going. I call her out on her bs and say that that's a loaded question (she's a very direct and blunt girl so I think she appreciated that) and then somehow she transitions into talking about her ex, who she dated for 2.5 years. I tried to be sympathetic in saying that I also recently go out of a LTR of nearly a year, but I still can't help but wonder if she's really over her ex. The girls that I've had a first date with that bring up their exes I can count on my fingers. Not a good sign, right? I did plant the seed for a next date, although it involves board games. She said she's going to kick my ass in checkers lol. My real intention was taking her to another bar that had some board games, and then pull her home from there, but she said she had to get home early for an early spin class the next day. I was able to pull a girl once before in a similar situation, but I didn't wanna press my luck here because she seemed so insistent and got up at 4am today. I walked her to her bus stop and thought I'd be able to at least get a kiss but we ended with a warm embrace.

Not sure if this is a fuck up, but at the coffeeshop she was very insistent on paying for her drink so I let her pay. At the bar, we ordered a couple of drinks and an app. Since she wasn't hungry, she encouraged me to eat most of the app. When the check came I instantly got out my credit card and she hers, although she didn't place it in the bill holder but rather on the bar top. I placed it in there for her. Maybe she thinks I'm a cheapskate and that's why she didn't wanna go to the next bar? Idk probably just overanalyzing.


I'm currently out of the country and won't be back til next week. Do I wait until I'm back to text for another date or just continue building rapport by asking how her weekend with her girlfriends was?


Thanks,
psheer

 

[Fuck This]

Don't ask about her weekend unless she brings it up.

If you told her about where you were going out of the country, send her a picture of you at one of the places you talked about.

Just communicate enough to keep her interested. If she asks about what you are doing , tell her you will tell her all about it when you have her over to your place for dinner when you get back. You need to convey that you are busy, living an exciting life and that she is lucky to be able to spend some time with you. Don't SAY that but let your actions convey it.

 

[psheer]

Don't ask about her weekend unless she brings it up.

If you told her about where you were going out of the country, send her a picture of you at one of the places you talked about.

Just communicate enough to keep her interested. If she asks about what you are doing , tell her you will tell her all about it when you have her over to your place for dinner when you get back. You need to convey that you are busy, living an exciting life and that she is lucky to be able to spend some time with you. Don't SAY that but let your actions convey it.

Great advice, FT! Will do

-psheer

 

[Seppuku]

psheer,

Difficult to conclude if it was a fuck up or not at this stage - you will know depending if she responds or not to your follow up texts. I've been on first dates, discussed topics of past relationships, still managed to fuck the girl later - so I'm not sure about the significance of her bringing the past BF topic. It seems that you avoided a trap by calling her BS at the online app question. This:

I still can't help but wonder if she's really over her ex

is very irrelevant at this stage. You should not be worrying about this thing before you've been fucking her for a couple months at least, in my opinion.
About not getting a kiss, if you read some of the stuff I post here and there, I'm not a fan of kissing her at all before the actual sex escalation is in progress.

In general, I think you can improve your first date template to make it efficient. Try to get a sense of how much time you will have beforehand. It's not going to be the same at all, if you have two hours, or four hours +, in front of you. In the second case, you have time to attempt a pull and escalation. In the first case you treat that as an "informative date", see the comments on this thread. And also, why do you need three venues before attempting a pull? One is enough, max two. Changing venues takes time, which could be used more productively in your home (or pull place).

Yes, you should keep the communication alive while you're gone. Agreed with FT, keep it minimal.

And you should never try to setup another date three days or more than intended day - ideally only within 48 hours of planned date. So many things could happen in the meantime, so it's best to keep it short.

Seppuku

 

[psheer]

Difficult to conclude if it was a fuck up or not at this stage - you will know depending if she responds or not to your follow up texts.

Appreciate the sage advice, Seppuku! Welp, guess it's a fuck up. Messaged her today with a really cool photo from atop the city saying "Greetings from [city]" with sunglasses emoji. Probably should've included myself in the photo. She's got read receipts on for me and read it in less than 15 min. No response...

I've had a girl get back to me in more than a day, so I guess I'll wait it out and see what happens. Thought about taking another photo of a ballet I'm going to see this weekend since I recall her saying she loves ballet. Seems way too tryhard, though

Assuming she doesn't respond while I'm out of the country, what's my next best move? Is waiting until I get back in town next week long enough to be considered persistence?

-psheer

 

[Seppuku]

Well it's not over before you have persisted at least a little. Being back in town next week will give you a perfect excuse to send a reconnect text. Be careful about the tone of your message. There's a thin line between persistence and chasing, and that's neediness.

How much persistence should you do before giving up? I think this is really up to you to decide. It *is* possible to get a girl after months of persistence. But it is more likely to end up with nothing. It is up to you to decide how much time you're ready to spend on this, vs. trying new leads. But you should definitely persist at least a little. Maybe she's in a better mood next time, or less busy, or different circumstances.

However it shows again that your top chance to get her was on date one. For that to happen, you should have planned the date better, by finding out early how much time you have, maybe starting the date a little earlier, and planning a pull home according to time constraints. Sometimes you don't need more than an hour of face time before she's ready to follow you.

 

[psheer]

Being back in town next week will give you a perfect excuse to send a reconnect text. Be careful about the tone of your message.

What do you think of a reconnect text like this?

"Hey J, finally situated back in town. Hope all is well with you. Free Friday at 6pm for me to whoop your ass in checkers haha?"

However it shows again that your top chance to get her was on date one. For that to happen, you should have planned the date better, by finding out early how much time you have, maybe starting the date a little earlier, and planning a pull home according to time constraints. Sometimes you don't need more than an hour of face time before she's ready to follow you.

Totally agree with you here. She had to move the date back an hour because of something urgent at work, so I already knew I was dealing with less time than usual. More importantly, I could've changed the first venue to the bar, which is a lot closer to my pull place. Hell, she was ready to follow me to the bar in less than an hour, so probably could've pulled from the coffeeshop.

 

[Witcher]

Witcher,

I'am currently only running informational for the logistical problem but also of skills. My biggest SP is how to end them, if not with a kiss what would be the best way to do it? Hug, handshake, check Kiss( Like french do)? This really confuses me and make many of my dates not ending ion the best way despite having a very good beginning and middle, and we all know the end is everything!

To be frank, if you're a beginner, getting girls on a second date is actually *harder* than pulling her home during date 1. I don't recommend a two dates system to a beginner. Figure out your logistics beforehand, get her on a first date, pull her, then escalate. That's my best advice. Once you're confident enough that you can handle that, then see about getting girls on two dates.

Now to answer your question, the best way to end the first date is on *your* terms. It means, it's be about an hour, she's still into it, but then look at your watch and tell her that you have to go.

If I use a two dates approach, I personally wouldn't kiss her or shake her hand or hug. Might seem a little cold... But at the same time, during this one hour I was deep diving and touching her. So this way of ending the date is just adding to the tension... Unless of course *she* shows a sign of wanting to kiss. It's a different dynamics then, she's chasing, so I oblige her as a reward.

Second thing, what would be the best way to proceed after the date, text few hours or the day after? Should the invitation for the next date be on that initial conversation or in another one?

That's a problem you won't have if you pull and escalate on date one. Because after you had sex with her, she will normally be the one chasing you for second time!

But then, you can always plant the seed for a second date, during your first date. What I do usually is to hint about my cooking. Usually a girl can't imagine a guy cooking for himself, so it's a wow moment, and I plant the idea of a dinner home. Getting the second date at my place will be easy. Well if you don't cook, you can always hint at this fantastic playlist of [xxx] music you have at home, or any other thing to bait her.

In any case, you need to have a full plan beforehand, from beginning to end. If you go to a date without a clear end game, it's going to be difficult to get anywhere. Is it what's happening to you?

Seppuku

First date sex for beginners, that's a pretty inedit advice! But I can see the logic behind it, we reduce our chance of messing things up and can capitalize on the magic that happens when we meet someone new. However, until I get better logistics, I'm stuck at first informational dates!

The first things I will implement is to reduce my date lengths since they are for the moment too long, because yes I'm a pretty good conversationalist and forget myself in the interactions, I think I will use a phone timer or something like that. However, I always feel a little awkward when I end dates with nothing..maybe it will come with practice.

One more thing, do you text few hours after the end of the date or the day after? Do you reschedule another one in that initial conversation or start again with little back and forth?

Thanks bro