Advice to guys who are in it just for the validation and not love?

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Over the years I have noticed that quite a few guys who get into the community are in it for the validation and not really the love and romance. These guys don't want the sex or the pleasure of feeling in love, they want to feel like a rockstar and use women for that purpose. A common trend I notice among most of these guys is that they have a powerful preference for blondes, I don't get it myself and it is something I saw in Eliot Rodgers too, these guys almost always have a thing for blonde women. The preference is so powerful that it borders on obsession.

With that said, I find that I was like this too. Being that I was a social outcast in high school who only had sex with one girl and my college experience was a wreck. Right now, some of the guys I am trying to help come from those exact circumstances. A lot of these guys were social outcasts in high school and didn't have much sex in college in college so they improved themselves overtime through bodybuilding, style, and just getting out of their comfort zone more. With that said though, these guys don't necessarily want girls that they click with or girls that they might even be sexually attracted to. A lot of these guys want "trophies" in the sense that they want the blonde they can show off to their friends and as their sign of having "made it". Most asian and indian men I know that go into the community do this quite a lot.

So the question is, how do you work on helping these guys?

 

[Anonymous]

I know you've posted a topic about a similar topic before; my question to you is, why are you so interested in helping these guys? People who really want to be helped, will accept the help. People who actually want to be helped will listen and try different solutions. Most people don't. They just want to cry and whine, and want people to acknowledge their pain, and don't actually bother doing anything to remedy the situation or fix any flaws or holes in their game or their personality.

And frankly, this is a journey that must be taken by the individual. They have to experience it for themselves. They'll never truly believe any advice, or take to heart the words and experiences of the people who have been in those situations, because they don't want to. They want to believe that life is unfair, and that the world is out to get them, and that the only thing that matters is getting your dick wet and having "hot" girls stroke your ego.

But if you could give any advice, it's simply to practice having an open mind. Most guys will make judgments about women before they even get to know them.

For example, many of my friends, who are non-Asian, have serious biases and limiting beliefs about Asian women, in particular East Asian women (Japanese, Korean, Chinese, etc.).

They'll say how snobby and stuck up they are, and how they never date outside their race, and how they're too easy and that they're a bunch of sluts anyway, so that they wouldn't even date an Asian girl… when they never dated one before. In fact, they hardly know any Asian women, and they make grand, sweeping generalizations about a group of women who they have never known, dated or even had a 5 minute conversation with.

So simply, I would suggest…

"Don't knock it til you try it."

I would challenge my friends to at least trying to date a girl with an open mind, even if she's not her type. And when I say type, I mean physical features, because most men do not even consider or take time to think about the types of characteristics and personality traits they want in a woman.

All they care about is, how big are her breasts, does she have a nice butt, long legs… etc…

Most men don't love women. They love sex. The two are not mutually inclusive.

 

[Nova]

5 words/phrases you will always see in a proactivity post:

fraternity, sorority girl, greek life, college, social circle

i'm not even trying to be an asshole or anything, really i'm not - but i think you've gotta get over your 'disastrous college experience' and throw yourself into the real world.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I know you aren't trying to be an asshole, you're just bitter over the fact that I called you out for your awful posts on a past thread. Get over it.

 

[Franco]

Proactivity,

The one common trend that I notice among these guys is that they claim to have success with other types of women, but they just don't desire them and they really desire the "hot blondes" (or whatever type of girl it is that they desire). However, the more and more I witness these claims (and this type of behavior), the more I realize that the main issue with these guys is that they aren't really successful with women at all.

I know this because the guys who I DO see regularly sleep with hot blondes never just limit themselves to this one type of girl. They are men, they are horny, and they are aggressive. They sleep with any type of woman that is attractive, and by doing this, they gain the experience and the confidence to sleep with the type of women that a lot of men desire. Without the experience, the understanding, and the confidence, you will not succeed with ANY types of girls.

Also, I would like to clarify what success actually is. Success is NOT having these girls chase you and want to be with you. It is NOT having these girls giving you kisses and calling you and saying "you're handsome." Success in seduction is sleeping with women. If you aren't sleeping with lots of women, then you are NOT successful.

So when some of these guys tell me that they "already have success with other races of girls," I'm inclined to think that they are just confusing "attraction" from these girls with "success." Having women be attracted to you (from any race) does not mean you are successful with women of that race. You need to regularly be sleeping with girls to even remotely consider yourself as successful, and once you are actually doing that, your entire mindset about women changes. Once your mindset changes and you gain that confidence and sexual drive to sleep with women, blondes become just another M&M in a bag full of deliciousness.

So, my advice to guys who are seeking to sleep with a specific type of woman is to sleep with ALL types of women and get the experience of what it is like to be a man who is actually good with women. If you are NOT sleeping with women at all (and of any type), then you have no idea what you are doing, and you have no chance of regularly sleeping with a specific type of woman.

- Franco

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

This is going in circles again, as a guy myself, I have not been open minded with women at all and have exclusively preferred to go with girls of my own race (white girls). I frankly don't care how hot a girl is but if she is black or asian I am not hooking up with her period. My preference is just that strong and I have had girls that were gorgeous and black or asian who were into me hardcore but I just turned them down because I wasn't interested. It's like I have been there to where I had my choices in girls but was not interested in the choices I had.

But this isn't just about having a "type", it is about much deeper issues. Sinn has called it the high school validation effect to where guys who were formerly nerds and geeks want the hot blonde girlfriend who they feel they could never get growing up. It's like the story of the geek in high school who grew into his looks and became successful but he fills that empty hole in his life. The guy wants to date the cheerleader (hot blonde) he could never get in high school to fill that empty hole or sleep with tons of women like that for an ego boost. To some extent, I fell victim to this same sort of thinking and the only thing that pulled me out of it was the fact that I could get those hot blondes. TBH, my looks helped me out a lot too, I am a tall white male who puts on muscle easily and have had a lot of success on online dating sites. I get a lot of IOIs when I go out and ever since I grew into my looks and applied what is being said by this site (moving fast!), it has been like shooting fish in a barrel.

Problem is that the guys I am trying to help keep bringing this up and I have to say their claims have some validity. My experience would differ significantly from that of an asian or indian guy and even a shorter white guy who might not look good.

What I am seeing is that this problem is more mental. These guys are passing up women that want them and missing out on the experience they could be having because they have this massive ego and entitlement about women. A lot of these guys are fixated on hot blondes because of the high school validation effect and it's not like they even want these women for love but rather for a conquest, to fill an empty hole in their lives.

For me, what worked was actually sleeping with a few hot blondes to where I was over them. I had the same fixation and would not be deterred but what saved me is that I have the kind of looks that quite a few hot blondes prefer. After having been with a few, I have become more open minded but I know my path was more unusual.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I also feel like to a small extent, this thread is basically saying "what would you have done to prevent Eliot Rodgers from going insane?". It's so obvious that guys who are fixated on getting blondes have this need to be a part of the "cool crowd" or have some arm candy rather than enjoy the beauty of relationships. For a while I thought it was a biological preference like guys preferring girls with nice breasts or nice ass but so far I have noticed that it is more about an ego boost rather than giving love. So rather than helping these guys be good with girls, I think what can be done to help such guys is to make it so they have this mindset to where they are confident and don't feel the need to fit in with the cool crowd.

It may seem like I am talking to myself and ranting but I think that as unlikely as it sounds, you can fix these guys. So many guys who get into the community get into it for the validation reason which in the long term is unhealthy but they just get scammed and told cliche type of stuff rather than getting advice which can actually help them. IMO, I think I have already figured out why they want the kind of women they want and the psychology of what is going into it, all that needs to be done now is see what can be done to fix it.

 

[Franco]

Pro,

What I am seeing is that this problem is more mental. These guys are passing up women that want them and missing out on the experience they could be having because they have this massive ego and entitlement about women. A lot of these guys are fixated on hot blondes because of the high school validation effect and it's not like they even want these women for love but rather for a conquest, to fill an empty hole in their lives.

Right, but what I'm getting at is that the most solid fix for this is to sleep with women when the opportunity is available. As you mentioned, the white/blonde girls you slept with didn't even have to be hot, but they just had to be white or blonde. Even that gives you MUCH more leeway and millions more options than if you just limit yourself to an extremely small subset of women. You have to be open-minded.

Most of the guys with these complaints aren't even going after the "6s or 7s" (so to speak; I'm not a fan of the scale) but are completely fixated on the 8s, 9s, and 10s. They are giving themselves no opportunity to learn by only wanting such a small subset of women, and although they are trying to dismiss it as such, it is actually a very strong form of victim and entitlement mentality. They are assuming (like Elliot Rodgers), that if you are white, you have some INSANELY significant advantage at bedding these types of girls, almost to the point where they just fall on your cock and you win. That is not the case at all, and there are PLENTY of decent looking white guys out there who are virgins and wondering why they can't get a girlfriend (or even get laid) in their early 20s.

The more open-minded you are, the more success with women you will have. It is as simple as that. What you can learn from being open-minded about women will significantly advance you in both seduction and relationships, and what separates the guys who've "slept with a few hot girls" and maybe once had "a hot girlfriend" versus the guys who regularly sleep with beautiful women is that these guys are much more open-minded to what they will do, and that mentality shines through their vibe when they interact with them. Women are drawn to that carefree, yet confident vibe that these men give off, and it's why they will be the few elite men who regularly are sleeping with all types of women (including hot blondes).

- Franco

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Great point Franco!

There is a big difference between going after a blonde vs going after a blonde sorority girl with good looks. IMO, if a girl looks decent then I would even encourage these guys to go for blondes from the trailer parks.

With that said, I think we need to think of ways to give suggestions to these guys which do not involve women but just methods by which they can lose this need for validation. Even if they become "open minded" and get women, their inferiority complex which comes from being a late bloomer will still haunt them in relationships and in their journey. I can relate to these guys to an extent because I was a social outcast in high school and throughout college, ignored by most of the hot girls and never had cool friends, this has led to me trying to do things to make up for that lost time rather than just being happy in life. Still suffer from some of that right now and am trying to lose it but these guys are far worse than me in that they haven't even had success yet.

The bigger picture here is not getting particular kinds of women of even being good with women, it's how to get people out there to do it for love, relationships and happiness rather than doing it for validation or a way to make up for lost time. How do you attack that problem?

 

[Franco]

The bigger picture here is not getting particular kinds of women of even being good with women, it's how to get people out there to do it for love, relationships and happiness rather than doing it for validation or a way to make up for lost time. How do you attack that problem?

Well, I think the biggest solution is a new environment, which I've already suggested multiple times. But I also understand that most guys (especially financially dependent ones) can't just pack up and move locations at the drop of a dime. But a new location with new people to meet, new crowds, and new women definitely gives you an amazing opportunity to start fresh. And of course, the location you choose is key too. If you can choose a location where you see white women dating men of all different cultures, then this helps your overall mindset.

Fuji Follower (a member on the boards) used to be in the same mindset as guys like Oh Pry and Altair, and then he moved to Seattle and said that it was like his entire world was turned upside-down when he saw Asian men dating all kinds of white women (including hot blondes). I think he's still struggling to have some success, but the move has helped his mindset immensely.

Anyway, to get back to your question, I don't think that problem really has a different solution than to what we always suggest you do here. You really need to commit to making yourself a better person, and you need to understand that it's going to take time and a lot of effort. So the best thing you can do is start with the things that can be changed immediately (such as losing weight and gaining muscle, getting stylish hair, buying cool clothes, etc). Fundamentals are always the best place to start because you don't need any type of validation to start improving it right away (whereas with these hot blondes, these guys feel like they don't have any confidence that they can get them because they don't see any other guys of their type getting them).

After that, I think it's important that they get involved in events, clubs, and activities that constantly keep them around a revolving door of new people... and new opportunities for new girls to show signs of attraction toward them. You can even get a job in sales like Chase did, which basically FORCES you to interact with new people on a regular basis, and your goal there isn't to judge THEM but INSTEAD get them to judge YOU (as an amazing guy who really knows what he's talking about and showing them the attention to detail that they crave).

Most of these solutions revolve around one concept: applying yourself. Committing yourself 100% to change, and committing yourself 100% to the advice that is given to you. Then, you have to commit to the fact that you will give it a substantial amount of time committing to this so that you don't write yourself off too early. For this specifically, I would say committing two years of your life to improving yourself with women should give you enough time to start noticing some results if you're really applying yourself. I say this because I've seen too many of these guys go out, have one bad interaction with a hot girl, and then come back and say, "see! They're all fucking evil and hate guys like me! <insert victim mentality ranting here>!"

So you have to realize that a change in both appearance and mindset takes TIME. And if you're doing things correctly, you should slowly notice subtle changes in the way people (and especially women) react to you. Of course, having someone there in-person being able to push you along would be ideal, but that's usually not an option, and there's only so much you can get a guy to do over a forum. The guy himself has to commit to the idea that he can get better and that he'll try everything in his power to do that. If he doesn't, then he's just someone you can't save, and he runs the risk of ending up like an Elliot Rodgers.

The fact of the matter is, the more that women realize they can have sexual freedom, the MORE that they are going to be chasing after the elite men who are the most aggressive. So the nice guys who are sitting back hoping that the girl of their dreams is going to walk through the door at SOME point are all going to have a rude awakening at some point. Eventually, they decide to either go the path of an Elliot Rodgers, or they decide to go the path of a genuine man and lover of women who is committed to self-improvement.

- Franco

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Agreed with the post all the way. Applying yourself is the most important part, like with working out or getting something done, the toughest part is getting started!

With all that said, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is to also train yourself to live in the now. So many times guys who have these validation issues get caught up in the past where they were terrible and the cycle keeps repeating itself. All of this leads to inaction which leads to depression and of course the victim's mentality. With so many of these guys I am talking to, I feel like their issue of an inferiority complex or this victim's mentality is more temporary rather than always happening. It's like Bruce Banner becoming the hulk, the guy goes for months being normal and then one day he turns into this big green nasty monster. Treating this type of a mentality takes time though and I think it is about more than just getting women, it's about gaining confidence from achieving things in life outside of getting laid.

With me saying all that though, I do sympathize with some of these guys. I lucked out in the sense that I was born tall and with good looks not to mention being born a white male, me giving advice to some of these asian guys makes them address me with the "well what do you know?" type mentality. A guy like me can look at media or just the real world to see my lookalikes getting all types of women while say an arabian guy might not have that same privilege. There are many threads on that though and it was my fault for even taking this thread the race direction, just that I notice a lot of asian and indian men who get into PUA fall victim to this sort of validation issue because many of them were nerds before attempting to change their lives.

 

[Estate]

I really find it hard to buy into when guys say "Oh she was soooo into me but she wasn't my type...".

We all have preferences, heck if I'm honest, the hot blonde type... is totally what turns me on the most. But we're not talking about marrying a women here, we're simply talking about attracting women and if someone truely can attract women of other "types" except not this one "type" then something is amiss to me.

Especially when the type is hair color. Not even some sort of major difference... like if you have the ability to go around slaying white American brunettes, why on earth can you not do the same with white American blondes? The difference is in hair color... there is NO difference here. So that's why I just buy into what Franco first said on this thread... it's all talk.

Man, I've been there. I used to hang with a guy who thought he was the man. He'd have all these stories of all these women he was getting and we just tired of his BS and couldn't stomach hanging with him because he never shut up about it.

As for the not-getting-over High School/College/Whatever thing. I also find this absurd. You guys seem to think life ends the day you graduate school. Man, I was never the collest guy in school, I wasn't slaying girls all around me. I probably met just a few girls in my entire time in college. But life started after that. It's a few years on now and I can't even believe I was that kid or that I worried about the things I did. I look at some of the "cool" guys I knew back then and they just aren't important to my life anymore. It realy has nothing to do with women. It's realizing that college has this weird social structure that just doesn't exist the moment you walk outside the grounds of the place.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I do find that there is a difference with women and hair color and it isn't genetics either. Take into account that most blondes you are running into are practically brunettes with an inferiority complex who made their hair that color to appeal to men more. Go take a walk through some major college campuses in the US and you will find that so many of the pretty looking sorority girls have dyed their hair blonde and I am talking light blonde. For some reason, a lot of the more shallower cliques of girls just attract more blondes and I am talking natural (sometimes) and fake (most of the times) blondes. It's hard to put a finger on too but a good example of these cliques is sororities which I have talked about also girls at clubs and most upscale kind of bars.

Just a month ago I was going to post a thread about my experiences in different venues and the women I found there. What I found was that bookstores I went to ended up having a lot more cute brunettes than cute blondes while bars, clubs, and places of that caliber had a lot more blondes. Like watch any football game on TV, especially if it is college football, and most of the cheerleaders will have their hair light blonde.

Maybe I am the only one that thinks this but it is rare to find a blonde that looks good and doesn't know her own value. Society does a damn good of letting blondes know that they are at the top.

 

[Estate]

You're seeing what you want to man.

It's like saying "I've never seen a green car", then bam, everywhere you go, you notice green cars... its because you are only now noticing it because you are conscious of it.

Your theory basically is the equivelent of saying if she paints her nails she will be harder to get. There's no basis for it.

But NOW we're talking about NON-natural blondes? So you can't meet girls who dye their hair blonde? But you easily get brunettes? But since these women have dyed their hair, they are actually brunettes? So... where's the problem? You said you easily get brunettes.
It's not like the bleach has seeped inside their brain and altered it somehow (or I hope that's not possible, haha).

Also.. dude... do you EVER leave your college campus? Like, take a walk... you realize there is a HUGE world outside there and nobody out there gives a sh*t about the hierarchies of sororities and douchey frats houses and there's actually some pretty hot (blonde) women out there too. Give it a shot

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I have been out in the real world for years now Estate, remember? I was the one who told you about making circles and meeting friends on your thread when you asked about it. As an Irishman you need to know that I was born and raised in this country and through decades of being here I have seen how things here work. Unless you are fucking those hot blondes and having success with them, I don't see your need to give advice.

A good number of blondes aren't natural Estate, are you that naive or just posting drunk?

 

[PrettyDecent]

Post an FR

A good number of blondes aren't natural Estate, are you that naive or just posting drunk?

No one on GC likes seeing aggressive posts, so let's get this thread back on track.

Treating this type of a mentality takes time though and I think it is about more than just getting women, it's about gaining confidence from achieving things in life outside of getting laid.

This is a mentality I had before starting my Newbie Assignment. It's actually fallacious logic, as pointed out in Does Confidence = Success? Actually...No:

"Let's wait until we can be a little more confident of the right action."

"I want to try it, but I'm just not confident enough."

"How do I make myself more confident?"

These are the kinds of protests I hear centering on confidence most often. Sometimes they have some merit - and I'll review which situations those are that they have merit in - but most of the time, these protests are empty and purposeless complaints.

"Lack of confidence" is a frequent complaint of those suffering from victim mentality; as if sitting around waiting to somehow become more confident through inaction is ever going to change anything.

And that's the problem with "waiting for confidence;" if you're not taking ACTION while you wait, that confidence will almost never ARRIVE.

So here's the thing, Proactivity - nothing changes until you start taking action. And by action, I mean going out and posting your results as an FR. It's hard for any of us to believe you're going to be anything other than a ranter before you toss up a few FR's and we visibly see your results improving.

And I'll make sure myself to praise and critique your FR's so you start seeing a change in results, because I've had success in the arena you're talking about ("blonde bombshells", or whatever) - though, I'm sure you'll have plenty of others on GC helping to give constructive criticism.

~Nick

 

[Estate]

I have been out in the real world for years now Estate, remember? I was the one who told you about making circles and meeting friends on your thread when you asked about it. As an Irishman you need to know that I was born and raised in this country and through decades of being here I have seen how things here work. Unless you are fucking those hot blondes and having success with them, I don't see your need to give advice.

A good number of blondes aren't natural Estate, are you that naive or just posting drunk?

Some things are universal. You had your sororities and frat in college. We had our own social tiers. But I'm 29 now and long removed from it and it doesn't effect my life in any way now. You need to get over it.

As for who I meet. Nothing to prove to you man but I've been on these boards about 2 years. Nobody's perfect but let's just say if you want help from someone who's had these blonde b itchy girls.. you're in good hands here... I just don't hang around sorority houses to meet 19 years olds. (CCreepy? Yeah.)
In fact if you insis not having been part of Greek life effects the rest of your life then I'm a pretty good example. I never had it, don't understand it and don't care about it... yet I've done ok for myself in this country.

I don't think anyone here can help you get these women. You're looking at intangibles to find answers. Again. You get brunettes right man? Easily? So please... explain to us again why you can get brunettes who've dyed their hair? It's hilarious. It's you're whole attitude to women and this obsession with college life as a grown man that is messing with your success and no matter how many of us say it. Nothing will change if you don't want to hear it.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Hold on...

I don't exclusively want blonde women, already had them and posted about how I dated a blonde bombshell that I met in dance class. Just calling it as I see, on the whole, blondes are a lot more shallow because most of them know their market value.

This thread is not about me and PrettyDecent, aren't you arabic or something? I ask because I want your take on this issue because a lot of men I meet from your background here in the US have those limiting beliefs that asian and indian men have.

Also, being a grown man and getting with 19 yr old girls (which is a legal age worldwide) = Winning at life!

You guys are right though, I need to put myself out there more since I broke up with my girlfriend a while ago. Field Reports coming soon.

 

[Drck]

Didn't read every sentence but it seems that it comes back to fundamental issue: Chasing vs. Non-Chasing

She is not attractive enough > you don't care > you are not chasing > she is interested in you because in her eyes you appear to have bigger value than she has

She is attractive enough > you start to care, perhaps too much > your mind set switches to chasing mode > your overall attitude changes > she is not interested and runs away because she thinks your value is lower than hers

Like cars, some girls are more attractive than others. Some people prefer new Mercedes to Lexus, others are perfectly fine with older Ford. Some guys like blonds, others prefer brunets, another ones just don't care about race or hair color.

When the girl is not so attractive to you but is quite interested in you, you should sleep with her especially if you don't have much experience. It is fairly easy to seduce such girl and you need the experience.

If she is too attractive and you put her unintentionally on a pedestal, you will have hard time getting her in the bed because with your overall attitude you are expressing that she has higher value than you, that she is above you. You are submitting to her frame. So you need the experience with less attractive girls, otherwise you just won't be able to nail her.

Once you have some experience it is easier to lower her value. She can still be quite attractive but because you have the experience now you won't make that many mistakes. For example you won't chase, you won't have problems to touch, you will say what you want to say, and you won't be too shy in the bed.

Your seduction knowledge is like money. If all you have is a couple of hundred you just can't drive classy car. You have to drive lower class just so you can get to work. But once you accumulate some finances, who says that you have to keep driving those unattractive cars? The knowledge is yours, it is only up to you decide what to do with it...

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I agree with Franco when he said that these guys starting out should not be going after blondes that are 8s and 9s exclusively but rather go for 5s and 6s as well, not to mention 7s and 8s. If you have a particular type, like for example I notice a lot of asian men getting into PUA want blondes, go for women of that type who are not at the top of the ladder. Instead of always aiming for a Hayden Panetierre, just talk to a plain jane or even chat up some blonde from a trailer park.

If you are not attracted to her, then don't pursue her because it is pointless and will destroy your self-esteem. I believe if a girl is enough to get you hard without viagra then you should pursue. As for her being interested in you, to me that does not matter at all if you are not attracted to her. Lots of fat, ugly, and unattractive women are desperate for men and some will literally throw themselves at a guy but I would not make a guy or even suggest that he sleep with them.