Affair slowly dwindles, but now she's getting a divorce

[Drck]

Nah, you didn't mess up at all man. You just over-reacting to her reactions for no reason.

I'm telling you, you are in different situation than a guy who just met a girl and who is trying to get her for date ... You already slept with her, you already created good connection with her. She knows you for months, and she is still giving you a green light. That is huge. She is also getting divorced, maybe not 100% because of you, but you did open a new view for her. Again, that is huge!

You can't compare this to a guy who is polishing his sexy smile, had an interesting conversation with the girl for 40 minutes, and now is trying to figure out what to text her. That is a totally different story.

So, don't be Debbie Downer man, there is no such thing like horrible mistake. I'm telling you again: you did nothing wrong.

Take a lead. Text her again, follow up on the deal. Today? Tomorrow? Two days from now? And who cares? If she already likes you for months, if she already slept with you couple of times, if she is telling you that you've been great/positive in her life... Believe me, 1-2 days will make no difference at all...

What does it matter when she texts back? Some girls may love you, and they still don't text back. You shouldn't be sitting by a phone, counting minutes and making judgements based on that... Turn the phone off for one day, then turn it on.

Ok, if you don't trust yourself, trust me. Watch out, I'm going to hypnotize you now (LOL):

* Close your eyes
* Empty your mind, relax, let go off all the worries
* Take deep breaths couple of times, forget everything, forget seduction, forget GC, forget any plans you have with this girl, forget this girl... Forget what you wrote, and forget what I wrote. Forget yourself, forget it all, let it all go...
* Go sleep, and tomorrow morning you wake up.
* The first thing you do when you wake up, is go out and look at the Sun. It's s great day, you say. If the Sun is not seen anywhere, perhaps because it is cloudy - say that it's even s better day because you just know that The Sun will eventually show up. It has to. You can't see it for now but you just know that it will be there, and that's why it's so great! You just know it's there even if you can't see it! Don't doubt yourself man, it is there...
* Now think about that girl, what's her name again? Yes, her. She's a great girl, you already know that
* So text her. Forget all logic, forget about being smart, just be silly. Text her that you want to see her again, that you want to take her for drink or dinner, whatever you want to do. Just text her that, who cares what words you chose? If she likes you she will like the fact that you are texting her. Be like her, be sincere and honest: Hey, I haven't heard from you, I really want to take you out. Is Thursday good for you, or is Friday better?
* Take what she offers

 

[Youngberg97]

Yes, I need to quit overreacting! I'm so mad at myself for how I've been taking everything.

Well, she texted me this morning and we had a long conversation. She said her husband keeps saying he is going to move out, but still hasn't. I don't really know how to "make someone" move out, so I had no advice for her there.

And she again promised me she would find an evening to see me as soon as she could.

So things are looking up, I think. She knows 100% that I want to see her, and she's going to try to figure something out for us. And, good that she initiated contact with me. That's very, very good indicator that she's interested in something. So I am a happy guy today. Thanks for all your help, Drck! You're awesome haha.


YB

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Youngberg,

Drck has done a great job of helping you. I just wanted to add about the husband leaving that many divorce lawyers tell the man not to leave the house until the divorce if final. It has to do with property rights. If the divorce is final and she has the house legally she can have him removed by the police. If not he has every right to stay.

You are just going to have to be patient. Divorce is a long messy process when one party does not want to leave. Go easy on her and yourself. You will get there.

BDSC

 

[Youngberg97]

BigDaddy,

Yes, I agree. I need to be more patient. I mean, I'm not displaying my impatience, so that's good. Really, if I've come off as impatient about anything thus far, its in my persistence to see her and be with her. I've also given her space when needed too, though. So I'm just hoping I can continue to manage that well.

Really, I just need to keep a level head and a handle on my own emotions so that this whole ordeal doesn't age me 20 years!!

YB

 

[ray_zorse]

I have been pondering this throughout the morning trying to work out where I stand here and my conclusion is as follows:

Drck's advice is good, yes, she may still be interested or she may not, and your best bet is to be your unfiltered self, if you feel you should be contacting her, contact her, if you feel she needs space, give her space etc. You're a smart guy so I'm sure you can figure out the details from moment to moment.

If you've been together a year plus, then I definitely think honesty and openness is the way to go, because if she reacts badly to your honesty then all it means is she was never that serious about you (or has lost attraction or you aren't compatible in some way), and you've screened her out and saved yourself a lot of time, trouble and emotional energy down the track.

BUT, when I say to be your unfiltered self, I mean your BEST self, the high-value man you've trained yourself through GC material and lots of practice to be... do avoid obvious seduction and relationship mistakes, and on this note I think your texts are coming through extremely needy. You're clearly missing your girl a lot and needing lots of her emotional validation and so on, and this is very unattractive to her. Remember, you're her rock -- HER role is to need you, NOT vice versa!! She is to live her own life and to contact you when she needs attention and validation, your role is to go about your hobbies, see other women etc. There's nothing wrong with contacting her regularly but ALWAYS it should be from a giving point of view. Just call her up (or text her, I understand calling is problematic, but I'd advise not to do too much via text as it makes you her texting buddy) and ask how she's going and discuss what's happening in her life, share a bit of news etc, be in a good mood and laugh a lot.

I also think your whole attitude to this is extremely unhealthy, you're basically saying "Can I get this high value girl? Does she want me? Does she need me?" Ehh, well from what you've said it sounds like you have a great sex life together but I wonder what else is so high value about her? I'm not denigrating her but I just want to make the point that you're very much over-invested in this relationship, and this is poison, it stops you from being your unfiltered self and from being the non-needy, steady rock she needs you to be. My advice would be to get lots of other women in your life and forget about her for a bit.

On the subject of her leaving her husband and getting together with you, I WOULD NOT COUNTENANCE THIS. Reason is that she'll be feeling a fair bit of guilt etc and she'll transfer this to you. It does sound like she is reasonably emotionally healthy and introspective and she's probably aware of this issue and wants a little space before deciding whether to commit to someone else. But frankly a relationship that works well as an affair seldom works well as a committed relationship and vice versa. Your mindset as a high value guy should be more like this --

This girl is a great fuckbuddy. We have awesome sex together and she's also had a provider in her life so I don't have to worry about that stuff, I can just spend the good times with her -- all care, no responsibility! She clearly doesn't value me that much, since she's been content to stay with another dude as the primary guy in her life [don't make excuses for her, she makes her own decisions and that's been her decision], she treats me as a casual fuck and that's one of the best things about her, it's exactly how I want it, since I have no wish to be tied down. Right now I'm getting semi regular sex with some interruptions due to her life issues, and if it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT! If she suddenly changes her frame then I will be quite suspicious since it will indicate neediness and emotional instability on her part, and likely lead to future problems.

Ray

 

[Drck]

Great posts, can't really disagree with BigDaddy or Ray.

At the same time, it always depends on what the particular guy really wants:

* Get bunch of girls to sleep with? Great, you need to develop certain mindset for that (GC is the best, though not the simplest aproach). It is probably a good way for lots of young(er) guys in their 20's, maybe early 30's. Nobody says that a guy who is 30-40 can't do that, but IMO older guys (30+) don't really need so many fancy stuff to be good with women.

* Settle down with one particular girl? Ok, we all have our choices. It is just different that what you get here from GC (as the general recommendation here is not to become a provider). Again, it all depends on many factors, but in general, older guys are probably looking to settle down, get home from work, have a good meal, play with children, go sleep and have some fun. Chances also are that guys who are in their 30-40's or more won't be approaching 50 women every weekend... It is just easier to focus on handful girls that they already know... Which requires little bit different strategy... There are great girls out there, mature, even with kids who would make a great partner. So why not? I met 2-3 girls like that, they already had kids and were married/divorced. They put their good years into the marrage, kids grew up little bit, they start thinking differently, got more mature, grew apart and were simply wanted change... I would be much happier with these girl more than sleeping with 50 hot and much younger girls, there was simply much better connection. At the same time, do I want to take care of somebody elses children? Personally I don't, but I can't speak for everybody.


So it all depends. The thing is, if you are the later one, it is quite difficult to un-learn everything and learn all the new stuff. It takes time, months if not years... So if you have one girls that is good and you are really into her (which I believe is the case with YB), why not utilize the best strategy to "get her"? But that's only his choice, whether he wants only this girl, just a fuck buddy or 50 new girls, I can't make that choice for him...

Personally I would even chase girl like that, I would go nuts just for fun; I simply just like to run up to the hill, LOL. Would I recommend it? Nope, not at all, not unless you know what you are doing. YB, assuming that he wants this girl, needs to do exactly as described above: Push and pull, little bit distance, more leading, lots of patience and so forth...

 

[ray_zorse]

Yes, you are completely correct Drck, and I certainly wouldn't rule out this girl being an option... at the same time I would be FAR more open to the idea of a committed relationship with a new girl that I met through cold approach, who ticked all my boxes, and where I was in control and could get things off on the right footing. Unfortunately once a frame has been set (that you're her guilty lover on the side) it is rather difficult to change, that's why I think fresh is best. It's just a really negative investment precedent -- you're investing in her, she's investing in her primary relationship. Now that she knows you'll tolerate this (and indeed that it makes you chase a little), how are you going to turn this around? Add to the fact she seems to be withdrawing slightly, and I feel there is a recipe for lots of pain and uncertainty. Well, there's no reason why you can't get this girl, but a bit of mental rewiring would help to cut out the "HAVE TO GET HER" feeling.
Ray

 

[Drck]

True, YB should set frame right from the beginning, which means now. There is definitely a need for being a stronger leader where she rather follows and where she needs him more than he needs her, at least most of the time. Agreed. Otherwise there will be problems in the future, such as that she may lose respect and thus interest in romantic relationship.

However, we also should to look where we are coming from. Whatever YB did in the past couple of months was working great, and it is still working - he slept with her, she is investing, she still want to go see him and so on. She is even divorcing the guy, and most likely YB gave her that emotional push to do it. Again, that's huge. In addition, she is now alone with a child, she does like YB, YB does have a good frame based on the original text, so we know that he has an advantage as she has a natural need to be protected by a man..

At this time I personally wouldn't try to change this behavior, in a sense that YB e.g. starts going out and meeting 50 girls in order to raise his Abundance Mentality, or start increasing too much value as a guy to become high value guy. Let's not forget that he already has a high value in her eyes at this time, that's why she is interested and investing.... Otherwise she will know right away that something is changing, thus she will put her brakes on, and he is screwed... Said differently, YB just can't do many changes in a short period of time. It's got to be a slower process.

At the same time, YB's attitude is unhealthy, at least from GC stand point of view. I wouldn't say that it is extremely unhealthy because it has been working great, she's investing and leaving her hubby, but otherwise I agree 100%. But IMO we don't really need to change this behavior, we want to ADD to it. YB doesn't have to become 100% GC seducer and restructure his whole personality in order to get and keep the girl. She already knows him for months, she already slept with him, and she simply likes what she sees. Why change it? He doesn't need to seduce her, she is already seduced. He doesn't need to prove that he is high value guy, in her eyes he already is. What we want to do is to keep what he's got, and add to it good solid frame where he positions himself as rather a leader of that relationship. YB is also a smart guy, I don't see any flaws in the original post, he's already implemented some good GC stuff, so he'll simply pick up the rest as he goes.

Good job, keep us updated

 

[Youngberg97]

Ray,

Yes, I am most definitely heavily invested in this. We've been lovers for over two and a half years.

On your point about not countenancing the divorce and everything, I've always been extremely worried about that and it is why I've never even mentioned that she get a divorce. She's mentioned it many times, and I've known since pretty much the time that I first met her that she has never been happy (really) in the marriage since they were basically an "arranged" couple (due to their families religions). I've been adamant that I have always only wanted and hoped to add to her life in nothing but a positive way, and she's also assured me many times also that even if I didn't exist, she'd still be unhappy and still be wanting a divorce. But yes, I need to be really careful here. I want to be supportive, yet not pushing her down the path.

Drck,

I like what you're saying here too. I've heard the advice "go fuck ten other women" before, and I'm sure it works, but is that what I want to do? Yes, I'm heavily invested in the relationship. But, I can deal with things too. If she doesn't want to be with me and this doesn't work out, then so be it. I've moved on from relationships before. Sometimes it is just something people have to do.

So anyway, she had told me yesterday afternoon she'd let me know when we could hang out next. She ended up sending me a funny photo later last evening, and we had a short text exchange, and at the end I decided to just say "fuck it" and try and nail something down:

Her: *sends funny picture / meme*
Me: Hahaha. Ah the feels!!
Her: Lol I know!! So funny.
Her: So did you and your ex use the same attorney? How did you guys do everything?
Me: No way should you be trying to use the same lawyer. Well, just my opinion. If you guys disagree on even one thing, then how are you supposed to get anything done that way?
Her: Oh wow, yeah I guess I never thought of it like that! Ok thank you! Yeah I definitely need to be consulting with a lawyer.
Me: You bet!
Me: We should hop a couple bars and have some crown and cokes Sunday
Me: (persistent motherfucker ain't I)
Me:
Her: lol I love it!
Her: And yes I'm game!
Me: Great! 2'oclock then.

So I guess we are hanging out Sunday.


YB

 

[Drck]

Great job, you da man!

 

[Youngberg97]

Well, this spiraled out of control over the last couple of days. I found out there is another man in the picture.

So we'd made plans on Thursday and then the next day (Friday) about 1 PM she sent me some messages with screenshots of things she found on her husbands computer. It was him soliciting women for sex on craigslist. I told her it wasn't healthy to be searching for things at this point as it was only going to hurt her, to which she agreed. We talked a bit more and everything was fine. She even initiated more conversation with me later in the evening.

Then on Saturday I sent her a few texts and just to confirm our day together Sunday. She then told me she wasn't sure if we could meet, because due to the recent events (her finding that stuff on his computer) that her husband was probably going to go ahead and move out and she would then need to keep her son. I told her no problem just let me know either way.

So yesterday I waited and waited for a text message. Nothing.

I texted her this morning: "Hey, just wondering why I didn't hear from ya yesterday? Hope everything's ok your way!!"

...and that's when it happens. My best friend (who is the only one who knows about us) called me about 30 mins after I sent that text message and said to me "Hey YB, I need to tell you something, she is with another guy and has been seeing him for about 3 months now". He had found this out by talking to another close friend of both of ours.

And it's been 3 hours and no reply to the text message that I sent her this morning. Although, I know she will reply at some point.

So basically there's another guy that appeared into the picture while her and I were being distant with one another the past few months. I really want some closure, but what would you guys do? Would you invite her over if even just for 15 minutes so I can say my piece and then let her go? What's the most mind-healthy thing I can do at this point for myself? I think just going straight no contact after we've spent 2.5 wonderful years together would be sort of cold, no?


YB

 

[ray_zorse]

NEXT!

It's fine for her to be sexually open and/or have lots of partners. But it's not fine to conceal it from you and leave you thinking a relationship exists when it does not. It's also not fine for her to be going through her husband's computer and all that kind of stuff. She obviously doesn't understand boundaries. She also is not good relationship material for you, because she was willing to cheat on her husband, so she'll be willing to cheat on you (and go through your computer and accuse you, while concealing the fact that she's doing exactly the same thing). It's also not fine for her to be playing hard-to-get and making excuses not to hang out, when clearly she can hang out with the other dude. Ehh umm by the way, she's social circle? And, mutual friends know of your relationship? That's a bit of a dangerous game to be playing I think.

The correct thing to do here is to cut off all contact and GFTOW. Honestly I was leaning towards that opinion even before you mentioned the other dude and the latest round of excuses (because she clearly wasn't chasing, which meant you fucked up somewhere or she was over the relationship), but this all just cements it. NEXT!!!

Ray

 

[Youngberg97]

Ray and radeng, definitely all makes sense. I was livid at first but I'm starting to feel some clarity kick in.

Ray: She's not really social circle, it just worked out that my best friend knows the other guy somehow. I don't live in a big town, so...

So just go straight up no contact? Should I delete her from social media, et cetera? I feel it would be healthier for my mind if I could just get to speak my piece about it. I'm good with cutting her loose, yes it hurts, but I'm just wondering if having some closure might help. That way I don't constantly feel like I have "unfinished business" with her or anything. Does that make sense?

YB

 

[Youngberg97]

Thanks man! Cold turkey it is, then. Glad to get advice from you experienced guys. I mean I'm pretty experienced with women and do very well with them, I've just never studied this stuff in depth enough like to where I was a member of a site like this or what have you. So I don't really know all of the social dynamics and psychology parts to know how women react to various things. I'm more of just "go talk to the girl and see if she likes me" type. Again, the great advice means a lot, so thank you to all of you.

I'm gonna get back in touch with some old flames, and I'll be going out to the bars this weekend, so I'll have her off my mind in no time! I have always been the type that gets over relationships pretty easily and painlessly, but this one stings (I think) because the other guy is so much less attractive than I am. I mean physically attractive; obviously I haven't been acting in an attractive way.

So yeah, it was some of the best sex of my entire life. So if I want to leave open the possibility of having a physical thing with her again in the future, you're recommending not doing the "closure talk" thing, yeah? Also, what about social media? Should I delete her off of facebook, et cetera? Or does that send the wrong message? (that I care too much)

YB

 

[ray_zorse]

Correct, "closure" is for pussies who cannot handle tension. It is MUCH better to keep her guessing. If she starts to contact you and push for meetups, you have the option of setting up something low effort for you (easy date perhaps) and see if she's serious, although she won't be, she'll be wanting you in an orbiter slot, so she won't agree to isolate herself at your home. Cold turkey (ignore her calls and texts) might be easier. If you run into her about town, be polite, maybe even insta-date her and see if she'll isolate, but don't put too much effort in. I would suggest to read up on compliance, if you do have any interactions with her in future, immediately try to get compliance. It's simply the best way to find out whether anything is going to happen. If she won't comply to you, brush her off politely and go about your business.
Ray
Edit: And don't delete her off Facebook, because she will notice, yes, it looks like you're upset and bitter. Honestly though, seducers should really re-evaluate their need for Facebook, I deleted mine years ago and have never looked back. It doesn't do you any good if the girls you're trying to seduce have your entire life as an ebook.

 

[Youngberg97]

Great, thanks Ray. I'll keep her on Facebook. Interesting note on that, by the way. I may re-evaluate my need for Facebook at a later time. Actually, having Facebook has helped me after breakups before because the old girl sees me with the new girl or girls and then freaks out and wants me back!

Again, everyone, thanks much!

YB

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

YB,

Read the following forum. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34 Newbie Assignment. This site will change your life. You can use the information to chase multiple women or use it to find the woman of your dreams.

Regarding old flames I personally would not get with them. They are old flames for a reason. If you want new and exciting read through the article on this website. If you follow the assignment above you will be bedding hotter women in just a short time.

BDSC

 

[Drck]

I'm disappointed... Sorry to hear that man...

NEXT is a good advice. Women are nuts and men need Red Pill, it is an unfortunate truth that keeps repeating itself over and over, yet one never gets used to it...

She is making excuses, if she is getting divorced she wouldn't really worry much about what is her hubby doing, she would show up for a date anyway. She knew on Friday she will not go see you, she just planted an excuse... She knew you wanted date on Sunday, she didn't texted you to cancel or reschedule... She could have even text you on Sunday and say something like "OMG, so sorry about that, I had to take my dog to the hospital, blah blah". Don't laugh, I actually got text exactly like that - and two days in the row from the same woman! LOL

She didn't even do even that, knowing that you are waiting for her... You can be sure that she read your text, if she were interested in meeting you she would simply never forgot...

Her friend contacting you after 30 mins you texted her again is not any conicidence either. They talked about it (you), and this is simply her hint to you that she is not interested.

For what I know, she may not even have another man in her life. She is just not interested, she may have made another excuse - she simply did it through her GF because she doesn't want to tell you directly... Her breaking the date and not rescheduling confirms it.

Unless she's got a really good excuse, such as being in the hospital with both broken arms so she can't text, all these are simply big Red Flags...

So NEXT! is the ansser. Don't get suck up to text her back when she texts you, you'll only start feeling sorry for yourself or creating unnecessary drama...

What would I do? NOTHING. Let her go peacefully, put her on an imaginary boat and send her gently down the river, and as she is disappearing in fog wave, and wish her all the best... Leave her on your media, don't text her, don't call or text back if she contacts you... Don't respond in any way, do Nothing, simply don't move a finger...

Focus on another women, give up the idea on being with her... Read Red pill, it is a good anti-dote for situations like this. Read about White Knights and Providers, see where your behavior went wrong. Don't beat yourself up, you did a good thing, you were sincere and honest, you were willing to be with this woman and take care of her and her child the best way you can, yet she didn't take the offer... Which is fine, she has 100% right to do that so don't get depressed man, go lift some weights instead...

 

[Youngberg97]

@BigDaddy,

Read the following forum. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34 Newbie Assignment. This site will change your life. You can use the information to chase multiple women or use it to find the woman of your dreams.

Regarding old flames I personally would not get with them. They are old flames for a reason. If you want new and exciting read through the article on this website. If you follow the assignment above you will be bedding hotter women in just a short time.

I have a date with a pretty 26 y/o Asian girl this Friday already, so I'm already taking steps to get there! Good point on the "old flames", but sometimes they're good for a roll in the hay haha.


@Drck,

Man, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice, even though it was all for naught at this point. Honestly, the worst breakups are when you feel like its your fault. But this one has become increasingly easier to handle since I know I did nothing wrong.

She actually texted me this morning to tell me she is sorry she didn't get back to me because she had a "very terrible day with her husband" on Sunday, and yesterday her friends baby had an all day surgery. Now you tell me- do they do "all day" surgeries... on babies?

Haha too funny. Can't make this stuff up!

Time to go on the date with the cute Asian girl


YB

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Congrats on the date. I am jealous. I love pretty Asian women.