AMA I am a 26 year old who has slept with over 50 girls, all 8s and above

[Franco]

And as a result, by extension, a relationship will not be truly "healthy" (and "happy") until you've hit this balance. Until it's quite literally an "equal" relationship.

It's not something everyone knows innately. A lot of people don't discover the true depths of their self-determined inner worth until later in life, and some people never discover it at all. But those that do will never be completely satisfied living with an 'unequal' relationship. It goes against a hundred thousand years of human evolution, which is seldom a conflict that ends particularly well.

Well, the thing is, I don't really believe that these couples who live to be 80 years old and die together are actually still achieving their "maximum" level of happiness at later points in time. It may very well be that the couple could have split 50 years ago to pursue other dreams (or other partners) because that is what they truly desire, but the amount of change and turmoil that it would actually cause prevents them from going through with it.

In a sense, you could say that I'm saying these couples "endure" their later years rather than "enjoy" them. There might be moments of enjoyment, but I know (especially women) crave adventure and excitement. But this is all mostly due to social restrictions and the way society sanctifies marriage (as something EVERYONE should desire to achieve), and women who are seen chasing other hedonistic outlets for joy, pleasure, and reproduction are publicly shamed for it.

EDIT: This is also long after reproduction has occurred and the children have moved on, so being together isn't necessarily biologically beneficial at this point.

So by saying this, I'm basically refuting this point:

This is a completely fair point, and I agree. The only thing I would change is the fact that, while you should never expect a specific relationship to be never ending, long term, whatever you want to call it, you should still be rating the most 'healthy' one as the one that eventually achieves this.

... because longevity does not necessarily equate to 'healthy' when it comes to relationships.

Anyway, so I don't re-invent the wheel here and give myself extra words to type out, I would take a small break to read the following articles when you get some time because they completely mirror my sentiments (and then it will give you an idea of where I stand as well as give you a better foundation for what you would like to discuss if you want to continue this conversation further):

• Respect in a Relationship: Where it Comes From and Where it Goes
  Do Women REALLY Like Being Treated Like 'Equals'?
  Conflict Between Men and Women in the 21st Century
  Women Love Sexist Men

They are semi-long reads, but you seem like an intelligent guy, so I think you'll enjoy them if not only for the reason to argue for or against them. Also note that all of these articles have been written within the last year or two. =)

- Franco

 

[Ross]

Might want to check out giving advice here.

A man who has it figured out uses small words to convey a big topic. The one still figuring it out feels the need to fully explain himself, in an effort to organize his cluttered mind.

Take Franco's advice and read some articles on this website. If they aren't your fancy, you can go about figuring out things on your own, but having a mentor who has fleshed all this out will prove infinitely more valuable and efficient.

 

[NarrowJ]

I ended up here because I saw some informercial, scam-bait shit for a "key lock method" and googling it brought me to a thread here. Nobody should be dumb enough to pay for common sense notions, and the kind of people charging money for it are just pathetic.

All I care to contribute to this is to point out that the key/lock method did not come from any author on this website. It was discussed briefly, in the same manner as it were just now.

J.J.

 

[Joy]

Um... actually I do like to hear more what Onibun has to say. For one thing, controversy is great for growth. Second, he does have a point when he talks about "equality" per say although I feel that Franco and Onibun talk about two different concepts.

Franco encourages men to be leaders in relationships as an argument against "equality" . Onibun focuses his "equality" perspective as an equal change of value between a men and a woman. The concepts aren't really mutually exclusive. Franco refers to power dynamics in a relationship while Onibun talks about a general exchange of values. A strong male leader may provide security to the woman who in turn gives him emotional support where both are happy for example.

Both arguments have imperfections per say.

The omission in Franco's arguments is that relationships where the woman leads can still work. Personal anecdotal evidence shows that a relationship may be healthy and last even if a woman is in control. My grandparents lasted until one of them died, but my grandfather certainly wasn't the one in charge. He was ok with it, so was my grandmother. My parents on the other hand broke apart because both were strong leaders but pulled in different directions. Eventually the ties that held them together got torn and they went their separate ways. From what I saw all long-lasting relationships have a leader and a follower whereas I have seen leader-leader and follower-follower relationships break apart rather often.

Onibun's argument assumes that people in unequal relationships will simply leave. In other words if a girl doesn't feel that she's getting what she want from her man she'll simply wave him goodbye or conversely a man not willing to put up with crap his wife gives him will divorce her at the drop of a hat. The truth is that it isn't so and there are countless relationships in the world where someone has the shorter end of the stick rationalizing the experience away via cultural norms, personal belief systems, victim mentality, or the fear of finding someone better. Are these relationships healthy? Not really. Does it matter? Not really. It is what it is and it's up to the people involved to change things if they want something different. So ultimately for the sake of reproduction, equal levels of investment are necessary and biologically impossible on a cellular level.

Anyway, short of writing another essay, I don't think we should be so quick to shun and direct the guy simply because he has a different perspective. If he's wrong, does it REALLY matter?

Personally,I am actually curios why Onibun invested his time and energy into writing on this site and I would actually like to know more of his story.

 

[Onibun]

Eh, /shrug.

I'm done here duders. I don't desire your attention any more than you desire my company.

I followed a google result to find out just how sad a PUA marketing scheme was and ended up here. I offered to answer any questions asked, period, and ended up with a snarky admin who only slowly admitted that I might know what I'm talking about. A guy who is so stuck in the past that he seems to think the classic "I must be a male and dominate and not care about how long my relationship lasts" is some sort of key to success.

I've (literally, I calculated) traveled around the world 13 and a half times. I've lived overseas and dated girls from not only most cultures but most walks of life. I've broken up a marriage, ruined two engagements, and destroyed about a dozen relationships. I'm not a saint, I'm a fucking near-phD educated car salesman with a dick and I'll freely admit it. I can go on a dating website to prove a point and pull an entire inbox full of replies with virtually zero effort, as much as an admin may try to talk down the importance of online dating in 2014.

As much as I'd like to stick around, I think my time here has passed. I'll continue being a literal real life legend, and you guys can continue doing what you do. Your admin can claim he cares nothing for confidence or self validation, but at the end of the day, he's an admin of a dating advice site and requires constant validation to the point where his first reply when someone offers up themselves is "Congratulations." in the most snarkiest manner possible, and at every turn has no intention of agreeing but always has to have the last word, even when a completely neutral person with nothing involved simply wants to offer his time and advice.

To me, that's not self confidence or someone who truly competes. That's a person with a modicum of power who is reasonably successful but cannot admit that there are people out there ahead of.

Enjoy yourselves, lads. I can, as I've said many times before to many people, say I've at least tried. There's a reason I just randomly fuck models and people sit on dating advice sites. For once I tried to bridge the gap in the most friendly, altruistic way possible -- but you've once again proven that the biggest problem between haves and have not is an unwillingness to listen.

I wish you all the best.

 

[Big Daddy]

Joy,

Actually, there isn't anything more to debate here. Onibun started this topic with the intention to help others in specific situations they may ask him, so instead of asking for his "credentials" or views or opinions, let's just leave it alone and let his advice talk for him.

EDIT: Oh, he posted a minute before I did =)

Onibun,

If you're still reading this, I was genuinely interested in what you had to say, but it doesn't seem to me that a talented, well-traveled salesman who could make people buy cars they could barely afford within two hours of meeting him would have any problem convincing someone on the Internet about something he believed i.e. that he can provide good insights about bedding women.

 

[Onibun]

And I don't mean this in a poor way, I legitimately came here to give advice to people who may not be as far along the track as I am. It's nothing to be ashamed of. I've had a lot of advantages in life when it came down to it, a lot of experiences and shit that made me who I am today.

Anyone who wants to ask a legitimate question without pretense about a dating / pick up / you name it topic, email me at mobibun (at) gmail.com. It's a junk email I use to sign up for various accounts and shit (like this one) but it does get checked on occasion.

No hard feelings to anyone here, but we're 40 replies in and all I've done is defend myself and wax philosophical on shit with people who clearly are still viewing women and dating techniques as though they lived in the 1950s.

 

[Onibun]

It's not that I'm unwilling, it's that I simply lack the desire to continue fighting a battle which I'll never win. You either accept somebody is better at something than you may be, or you fight forever trying to prove why they're not.

My summer job is working at a big TV station. It's not even a job I care about, nor need the money for, like anything I do it for advancement. I'll be in a phD program next year and at some point everyone will have to call me Dr.. but I've never forgotten that networking, meeting people and doing shit aside from being a bookworm is incredibly important to everyday life - let alone picking up women. Even today I had to sit there hiding the window while I wrote these long-winded replies. It's not something I want to do again --- I don't give enough shits. My aim was to answer relatively basic questions, dating tips, you name it. Whenever I had a spare minute or two. I did not plan on having to defend myself for 10 minutes at a time.

Instead I got pulled into fucking writing 5 paragraph responses with a site admin because he decided to be snarky. I didn't sign up for that.

Email me -- I'll be glad to respond.

Take it easy guys.

 

[Onibun]

And again -- just hit me with an email. Tell me what you've done, what she's doing, who you are, who she is, give me a full text copy/paste conversation if you need to.

Chances are I'll tell you that you've fucked up and there's no fixing it, because you get about 1 shot with a woman and then it's done.

But if I see a solution, I'll let you know. And if not, I'll tell you why you did it wrong for next time.

Seriously, dudes. I've fucked models. A lot of them. But I've fucked everything in between too - bartenders, waitresses, goody two-shoes girls, innocent students, virgins, blue collar workers, office workers, phD feminists (no joke), millionaire daughters (on more than one occasion), married and/or engaged women, chicks with boyfriends.. you name it.

I've never limited myself to some sort of obscure "this girl has the same hobbies as I do" dynamic. I'm a salesman at heart, and the tougher the challenge, the more into it I am.

Sleep time. Have a good one duders.

 

[Franco]

Onibun,

I wasn't really looking to make any more comments on this thread, but obviously some things needs to be cleared up.

Instead I got pulled into fucking writing 5 paragraph responses with a site admin because he decided to be snarky. I didn't sign up for that.

The only comment on this entire thread that was made by me with the intention of being snarky was my very first comment congratulating you. When you sign up for a forum looking to contribute information to a community, you do not start by alienating them and claiming to be superior. Your first comment came across as rather snarky if you hadn't noticed yourself:

I am a 26 year old who has slept with over 50 girls, all 8s and above. And have almost never hit a gym, nor am I wealthy, nor have I ever used PUA bullshit or someone else's tactics.

...so naturally, you are going to receive a snarky reply.

You joined the forum, made a first comment alienating the author of the website by implying that you've never used someone else's "bullshit" tactics (of which you never took the time to actually read nor validate) implying that your own tactics are superior to his and that everyone should listen to what you have to say, then proceeded to post a screenshot of a PoF inbox that you believe provided enough credibility to back up your statement.

After this, I mentioned several times that I was more than willing to hear what you had to say:

With all this being said though, if you think you have some things to share with us about your experiences with women that could improve our knowledge and success with them, then we'd love to hear about it!

In the meantime, if you want to share some advice of your own (or ask questions about specifics), these boards are open for that as well. =)

Anyway, so I don't re-invent the wheel here and give myself extra words to type out, I would take a small break to read the following articles when you get some time because they completely mirror my sentiments (and then it will give you an idea of where I stand as well as give you a better foundation for what you would like to discuss if you want to continue this conversation further)

Instead, you decided to close the conversation without actually providing any valuable input, making others believe that you had something worthwhile to say (generating intrigue) while not actually giving them any advice and actual value. This would be equivalent to me walking into a professional football locker room telling the coach that I have "secret tactics" that would make it easy for the team to win the game, and then when the experienced coach (skeptically) asks me what this "secret" is, I suddenly decide that it isn't worth my time and exit the situation, claiming that coach is no longer worthy of my aid.

It's a common vampiric social tactic to gain social momentum in a situation where you don't have any leverage.

Everyone here was curious as to what you had to say -- even myself -- but I'd lost interest once I saw the result of this conversation. I'm sure there are some here who would still like to e-mail you to see if you actually have anything valuable to provide them with. If they do, I really hope you do have some good insight so that they aren't wasting their time.

I wish you the best.

- Franco

 

[Mr.Rob]

then proceeded to post a screenshot of a PoF inbox that you believe provided enough credibility to back up your statement.

Lol.

Interesting thread here.

Yeah I'm open minded to this guy.

Onibun, you should post your most recent Lay Report (a report detailing you cold approaching and then fucking a girl) and us newbies could take some notes.

-Rob

 

[Chase]

This is an interesting thread!

I'd agree with Joy that Franco and Onibun seem to be talking about two very different topics when they discuss "equality", which is one of the problems you will tend to see when you have experienced people from outside a given community getting into debate with experienced people from inside another community on nebulous concepts (e.g., a 40-year Ford mechanic talking with a 35-year Toyota engineer about what makes a "quality car" will almost certainly argue right past one another).

One thing to point out for readers:

Nobody should be dumb enough to pay for common sense notions, and the kind of people charging money for it are just pathetic.

Much of the anger aimed at dating and seduction sites and products tends to be from this mindset. Sometimes it's the "It's wrong to trick and manipulate women" thing, but often it's the "I can't believe anyone would ever have to pay for this, and what a bunch of scumbags the people must be who charge them."

I ran into it myself - when I was still pretty inept with women and discovered there were these guys who'd take you out and teach you to talk to girls and I drove to New York and paid a thousand bucks for it, my father told me on a phone call that I was being scammed and he was so sad I even thought this was something I needed to pay for.

Best thousand bucks I ever spent. I'd go back and spend 5 times that for the experience, and wish I'd done it 10 years earlier.

Here's the issue: everyone's quick to tell you, "You don't need to pay for that! It's easy! Here, let me just give you a few pointers," and then let you go back to failing again, usually because they don't realize how far behind you are or how poorly off you are. Kinda like the math whiz telling the kid who's a dunce at math that he's a fool if he needs to hire someone to tutor him in trigonometry and he just needs to think about his problem sets differently. Then goes back to ignoring the dunce again after that.

The problem is that the people who discourage you from seeking help never provide it themselves. This is true for everything: academics, social skills, making money, you name it. They tell you to quit seeking help, and then vanish instead of providing it themselves, which to my mind is the acme of irresponsibility: if you're going to discourage a guy from seeking help that he needs and knows he needs, the burden of making sure he becomes a success has passed to you. It's now your ethical responsibility to make sure this guy you've just told doesn't need to pay for help now becomes a rip-roaring success.

This isn't a responsibility most people telling you don't seek help because it's easy are willing to shoulder, though.

If Onibun sticks around and wants to mentor guys hands-on and teach them how to be ace with girls, I'd be more than happy to have him do that so long as they're getting results.

Insulting those who know they need help and seek it because they want improvement as "dumb" though...? The students here include business owners, world travelers, and plenty of really awesome guys on this site and on these forums - mostly likable, charismatic, sociable guys who are attractive and frequently even brilliant. Paying for help in whatever areas you need assistance in is one of the smartest things you can do.

(FYI, I've spent about 75% of my personal disposable income this year so far on various training courses and one-on-one training with coaches in various things I want to improve at - business, martial arts, etc. If you're not buying training, and you're a self-improvement-oriented person, you're missing out on a serious advantage)

Chase

 

[Nova]

Hey, welcome to the boards.

Nice to have a another guy around who will be able to help out some of the newbies. Such a selfless intention by you to stumble across us through some infomercial and make the decision to hang around and offer up your wisdom.

I think it is very important though, that if you are going to be frequenting these boards with that whole aura of authority and know-how that you find a way of enforcing your expertise so that the rest of the community can trust in and take seriously what you have to say. (I mean otherwise, surely everyone is just going to view you as some jumped up knuckle-headed new guy talking a load of shit, claiming to be some kind of reincarnated Casanova - even through he's probably just some little dweeb sitting behind his keyboard), right?

Luckily you had thought of this and decided that the best route to developing that trust and respect so that your advice that you claim to wish to offer would not be given in vain would be to share some of your heroic conquests with the rest of the guys.

And have almost never hit a gym, nor am I wealthy, nor have I ever used PUA bullshit or someone else's tactics.

Only about 10% were drunken one night stands,

the rest were a handful of serious girlfriends

and the majority were/are friends with benefits things that I could still, to this day, just jump right back into most of them.

Hell, I should just post my "Famous quotes" section of Facebook here, because it's crammed with gems.

I've been fairly successful in life

(loads more, I couldn't possible list them all!)

Which I think is a great idea. Nothing gains respect and says pro with a capital P like banging on about how good you are (I mean when when a guy spends ages and ages droning on about how many girls he's fucked and how big his cock is, you just know that he's the shit and what he's saying is the real deal, don't you?)

I also loved your idea to come here and present yourself as an almost figure-head of seduction that has transcended PUA by claiming it 'bullshit' even though your on a website that is based around the idea of conceptualizing the process of attracting women which is what PUA material is, another master stroke and one that is ensured to garner yet more respect.

I also dig your ingenious idea of creating your own single centralized question and answers thread, almost painting you as an oracle like figure who simply doesn't have the time to join in with the rest of the community the way everybody else does because he's just too busy fucking chicks.

All in all, I am glad to have you aboard the ship ;-) - Just ignore anybody who thinks your probably just some bored motherfucker on a piss take - claiming to be all about sharing his knowledge so that people don't get scammed by the pua bullshit but in reality just wants to create a bit of tension, have a few debates, receive some much needed attention and take the opportunity to share some of his insightful stories of all the chicks he's bedded even though he doesn't even go to the gym or have any money.

Seriously, welcome. You sound like a real chill dude.

 

[trashKENNUT]

TO all,

Just in case. It's one thing to come here and writes that he knows it all. For me, I have no problems with this. I see this with Filipinos and Asian guys here, who are foreigners for few years and claim they are citizens in my native country. They are more assertive. I see this with some successful people who thinks they are better than the rest.

But it's one thing to come here and help people, and it's another to come here and claim everybody is somewhat "irrelevant".Why i write this is simple. I feel that Nova noted that me, Tayo or anybody who responded was thinking he was a jackass. Nope this isn't the case.

If you want people to respect you, Get to know your environment. There's a saying, "Get in line" or Provide value.

Zac

 

[Drck]

I have no doubt that what Omnibun claims is possible (nail 50 girls by the age of 26). I would believe with no hesitation if he said he nailed 100 without any Seduction/PUA knowledge. Some people have talent or they develop their skills under favorable circumstances. They can do things with ease while others have to work for it many years. I know it from experience, it happens a lot in different areas and there is no reason why it can't happen in seduction.

I read and learned A LOT about seduction, and looking back I can say that a lot of it is just BS, and nothing else than BS. The problem is, that if you don't read/learn the BS you won't really learn, and you'll still have troubles with girls, because you are just not natural, you don't have the right mindset because circumstances you grew up under were just not favorable...

Social shifts happen, what men did in 2005 is different from today, but some things remain the same. For example, confidence remains important all the time. If you don't have confidence you simply don't approach the girl the right way, you don't have guts to take her to your place, and you can't have good sex. IMO confidence belongs to fundamentals, and if anyone claims that confidence + fundamentals are not working it just doesn't make any sense. Those things generate very high attraction, and the girl need to be attracted to you in order to sleep with you. That worked thousands of years ago, and it it is still working today.

Trying to put the whole seduction thing into perspective, there are other insightful web sites that are describing what is here on GC, including for example being Lover vs Provider, and some of the articles I read were posted online way back in 2001. Guy(s) who wrote that must have been in the field for several years, so we are probably looking at least into mid-to-late 1990's. That's 20 years ago! Chase did a great job to put everything together and adding elaboration to it, explaining it, he's got a great web site, but as far as seduction he is (IMO) getting more credit that he deserves since a lot of that stuff is also a "common" knowledge in PUA world. What I meant to say is, that there is not only one guy who discovers or knows how to seduce girls. There must be thousands of them, if not more, they just don't talk about it, disclose just minimum, explain things just briefly, or don't bother to share at all. The less they give a damn about other males, the more females is out there for them. Which of course makes GC site even greater.

There are also great discrepancies in what one means under certain expressions. For example words like confidence, dominance, healthy relationship and so on can have quite wide and lose definitions, while person who is using those words can mean something very specific. Or vice versa, just because tomato is red, it doesn't really mean that red and tomato are the same things...

 

[fsc]

I wish Onibun had taken some time to read a few articles from the main site before posting here. He would've agreed with most of what Chase and the other writers teach, and he would have provided some valuable discussions and insights on things. He could've been a resourceful mentor had he practiced some humility, open-mindedness, respect, and kindness. What a shame.

Despite the negativity, this thread was an interesting read except for all the boasting. I apologize for being a bit hypocritical and adding to the negativity, but...

Seriously, dudes. I've fucked models. A lot of them.

COOL STORY BRO

 

[Drck]

As far as relationships, I tent to agree more with Franco (e.g. the man has to be the one with the power and control in the relationship), but the issue seems to be much more complicated, meaning that Omnibus is not wrong either. If we take in account several important factors, such as cultural background and natural dominance/submission of that particular man and woman, the overall picture will make much more sense. It is impossible to be specific, so this is only a GENERALIZATION in which many exceptions exist:

1. Cultural difference: For example, there is a big difference between European girls and American girls. American girls were raised to be more independent, they can make more money and are more financially sufficient. American woman is more liberal as far as sex. She tents to be more dominant in the relationship, she has high expectations from her partner. American girls also disrespect a lot of guys. American guys (for some reason) are voluntarily choosing more equal even submissive position in the relationship. If he wants to be more dominant he has to 'fight' for that position.

On the other hand, there are still a lot of European girls that would be great fit for marriage: she cooks, cleans, takes really a great care of her children. She is conservative and faithful to her husband. She is more feminine, the guy by default is more dominant. There is not much of a 'fight' for dominant position, if at all. The guy is usually very well respected. In USA you would have to search really hard to find such girl, in Europe it is not so unusual (still speaking GENERALLY). Many guys who live in USA and are having such troubles with finding and keeping girls would be just fine in Europe.

There is probably some noticeable difference between girls on East and West coast of USA, or simply in different states. There is different ethnicity, education levels, financial situation, social background...

2. Natural dominance: Some females are quite dominant, lets call them Alpha females. She might be quite attracted to more dominant male as far as sex, but on the other hand, she will most likely seek submissive (Beta) guy for long term relationship/marriage as she wants to remain in charge. Relationship where both of partners are Dominant won't probably last too long, but it is of course not impossible.

The thing is, that most females are submissive by nature. Just by guessing, there are probably 8-9 out of 10 submissive females and only 1-2 out of 10 are more dominant (Alpha). More submissive female will by default seek more dominant male, thus if a guy is weak (lets call him Nice Guy or Beta Male) she will reject him, push him into a friend zone, and seek more dominant one.

In real life, there is of course a lot of mixture as the dominance is not clearly defined. Both partners can be "equal" in the way that Omnibus is describing, however in reality there is ALWAYS struggle for power thus the "equality" needs to be maintained. One thing is to be "equal" for two years, and the other is to be "equal" for 20 years.

Another thing to consider is that people change over the years, they learn new things, they change their beliefs, they meet other people... "Growing apart" is simply a very real thing, and unless both partners are really skilled in managing relationship, there is no way to keep the original "equality" in natural balance.

Say 8 out of 10 females are submissive and seeking more dominant male, meaning a guy who can make difficult decisions, who can lead, who can be in charge when needed. Guy who takes actions. So, a guy simply can't go wrong with being more dominant and more leading in the relationship. His dominance just won't work on those females who have the need to be in power.

Who needs that headache with being equal? I don't, I don't want to be equal at all. Anyone who does, well, enjoy, there is nothing wrong with it, it is definitely possible. I like simplicity, and in my simple world the more dominant the guy is the more the woman loves him. Males should be manly, and females should be feminine. It is just natural, it doesn't get simpler than that...

 

[Drck]

Eh, sorry for the "Omnibus", it was autocorrection, can't edit...

 

[metomeya]

Congratulations.

- Franco

I think we should have just left this thread with Franco's response.

 

[Tim Iron]

Exactly what I was thinking.... the Onibun dude is just an attention seeker and yet Franco, ZacAdam and even Chase was replying him???

Congratulations.

- Franco

I think we should have just left this thread with Franco's response.