Antidepressant ok?

[Rain]

Hey guys,

SHORT VERSION
Has anyone here ever gone on any medication or seen some sort of therapist? I have anxiety like symptoms, could also be irritable bowel syndrome as well. I've also read about people , rarely, getting misdiagnosed with anxiety when they actually have epilepsy or someone on dysautonomia forums trying to workout the difference between panic attack/anxiety and adrenaline surge. My symptoms are yeah, feel sick and/or bowel movement needed, the thing is, everything seems fine then out of the blue, soft bowel movement feeling, then usually after having using the bathroom the anxiety goes away within 5mins. Not always. So I wonder if I have something physiological as well, eg inflamed intestine, or just too much stress, have tried different diets, some have reduced that symptom but not 100%. When this happens I also cannot fall asleep, even if super tired. Once I 'calm down' less agitated and 'normal' then yeah, can fall asleep very easily.

It's very difficult to describe, but when in the anxious mood, any thoughts that come into my mind that I could normally handle, get blown out of proportion. Even positive thoughts[eg woman on my bed nice legs we both want to hookup but cannot because of my mood until I calm down] create a 'more nervous energy'. It can happen without needing a bowel movement, its not painful, but my stomach gets very tight, I get tense, agitated, feel sick. Cannot eat as appetite is down. I guess I'm worried a therapist would say [which I did see one a few years ago] that 'love gurus eg PUA' may not work, as those pua could just be anyone without any qualifications, and 'you can't do much about your looks'. I've had those things.


LONG VERSION
I guess I don't like the idea of medication because it may control you, and the stigma, and also maybe I judge myself as much as I judge others, and I do judge others. I may also have too much sympathy/empathy and/or be too intelligent for my own good... eg see old people and think who would want them? I have a friend who is similar approach anxiety and we are each other wingman, and when I'm in anxious mood, he is skinny like me, and I think 'he not good enough' because he is skinny. I guess that means I'm not good enough too? But I don't stare at the mirror thinking about it , necessarily. If i feel sad that's ok I guess, I'd rather be sad then anxious. So basically, if I have a woman, I see flaws, but if they pull away, I see attractive parts to them. Could be lack of abundance too... I have not been with 8s or 9s very much, if at all, but some 6 or 7 have been legit interested and a couple of them interest back, and I've felt a connection eg I could maybe be with them long term, but then I walk into supermarket and there's an 8 or 9 and its like why am I with a 6 or 7. Its an instant value change. On the other hand, I do imagine 'settling down' with an 8 or 9 and still get anxious/weirded out feelings. Logically, everyone has value, even unattractive, so logically I 'get it', but on some other level, emotionally? or what other levels are there? I get anxious, I get tense agitated very easily, I take things personally easy.

Also, I do notice that with women, I do tend to chase ones that got away so to speak, and be most attracted in those circumstances as opposed to in the moment. Being exclusive scares the crap out of me, I don't know why.

Other things that 'calm me down' is that, if I have a friend I have known for years and years come over, or if i went to see my mum[can't do that these days], that would also calm me down. But if I call a help support line, they say do this exercise do that exercise, it breaks the mood for about 5seconds only and then the agitation energy comes back. Perhaps it's also worrying about feeling sick and dying[live alone] and having someone helps, or is it the emotional that you trust this person eg mum, long term friend? No one is giving me antidepressant when I calm down, it just goes away.

Good news is that I have approach anxiety shyness so only did online, but in the last 12months have gotten over that a bit, still a way to go, but at least I've asked some out without using online. However that is totally different to what I'm describing here... with that I can 'walk away' eg not approach, and I would be annoyed angry, where as with this anxiety problem irritable bowel syndrome, I don't have that type of control over it, I can't "walk away" from it or just turn it off.

 

[Fuck This]

Probably a question best suited to a therapist.

 

[Hue]

Rain,

Logically, everyone has value, even unattractive, so logically I 'get it', but on some other level, emotionally? or what other levels are there? I get anxious, I get tense agitated very easily, I take things personally easy.

You might have just not internalized your logical conclusion quite yet.

But if I call a help support line, they say do this exercise do that exercise, it breaks the mood for about 5seconds only and then the agitation energy comes back.

Not sure what specific exercise you're referring to, but I use meditation. It takes a good bit of practice before your overall mood is more calm. Overall mood being weeks-months-years at time.


As far as the subject question, I'm with TwoRocky, that's a decision between you and a therapist.

From my studies, the data suggests that antidepressants work for some people more than others, sometimes different forms of cognitive-behavioral therapy work just as well if not better. A lot of times using both works wonders, too. Totally depends on the person, though.


Hueman

 

[Rain]

Chase wrote here that anti depressants maybe people shouldn't be taking them. I don't want to try them but I need to try something, maybe exercise or hanging out with old friends/make new ones? I'm unsure if my issue is too much thoughts causing stress, or I have some neurological imbalance/chemical imbalance/gut inflammation or something.The breathing exercises were breathe in, unsure if supposed to count, and breathe out. It sort of works, but once i stop doing that, the energy is still there.

I don't think it's fight or flight. Eg I'm out somewhere and two people start yelling/scuffling nothing to do with me, I could freeze. Once they stop/move on, then I may be in a bit of shock and when I try and walk I have jelly legs. But while the "threat" is there,I can be very frozen. Compare that with my mood disorder here, I'm definitely not frozen. So this isn't related to a physical threat, it's more a judgement/social one as opposed to raw fighting, or its chemical imbalance too much stress.

There is too much energy, my senses go over drive, thoughts too. Even after using the bathroom, the problem too much energy can still sometimes be there. Example, normally you eat food, and after eating you have food on teeth. But when I'm in this mood, if there is anything on my teeth that's like, a sense, and its way too much energy in my brain energy/gut energy if that makes sesnse? So things that are normally fine, are not fine at all.

Thinking 'good' thoughts doesn't make this energy go away either. Eg I've been making progress on approach anxiety. Thinking this, doesn't change the energy though, the mood is still there. So what does work? The only thing that seems to work, aside from the energy dying out on its own, is imagining or contacting a close friend/family member and hearing from them or knowing I can go see them, seems to calm me.

 

[Hue]

It sounds like you have an issue with the anxiety you're experiencing and want to get rid of it.

Here's a recent thread on dealing with anxiety. Usually it just takes time to try out different things in getting over your anxiety. I would recommend to keep meditating, so you can see long term benefits, and to start everyday with a cold shower. The shock you experience makes the arousal you get from everyday stuff go down (being hyper-reactive to stuff). I've been doing both for a while and overall seen less stress, other than some life events that can trigger a strong reaction from me.

Try to remember that everyone has anxiety as to not stigmatize yourself.

I would recommend you seek a professional counselor to formulate a plan on how to deal with your specific issues when it comes to anxiety, if you don't see improvements after trying out some of what's been recommended in that thread (that is, taking what's been recommended and applying it to your situation).

 

[Mr.Rob]

Rain,

Has anyone here ever gone on any medication or seen some sort of therapist? I have anxiety like symptoms, could also be irritable bowel syndrome as well.

I personally think a vast majority of the time (90%+) medication is unnecessary for treating anxiety/depression. I mean there is no medication out that cures anxiety, its merely a management tool that once you start taking it you need to stay on it indefinitely in most cases, in which case also gives new side effects that may or may not be worse than the original ailment.

Your typical doctor in the conventional mainstream is going to try to prescribe medication but all medication does is block a receptor that communicates another receptor to produce more GABA and basically depress your central nervous system. If you ask that same doctor why your GABA receptor isn't emitting enough on its own you'll usually get a vague evasive answer about how your brain is broken.

However if I were in your shoes I'd be asking why am I having these symptoms (IBS, anxiety, intestinal issues) in the first place. To get a doctor that actually cares about diagnosing the cause rather than the symptoms you'll have to find a doctor that practices Functional Medicine.

I have a pretty good feeling that if you can fix your gut IBS issues that your anxiety will improve significantly if not fully go away. If you dig into the research you'll find a lot of brain issues are directly related to the health and function of the gut (which if you live anywhere in the west the chances are high your gut health could be in better condition) via the vagus nerve.

Conventional doctors will tell you that your IBS is a disease that is irreversible. Go find a good functional medicine doctor and IBS can be fixed for good in nearly most cases (it took me literally 10 days to clear up my IBS once I began treatment and diet free of food sensitivities after conventional doctors just offered me medication).

If you decide to go this route you can find one in your city or many doctors are practicing remotely. I'm currently looking into being a remote patient of Dr. Ruscio for example https://drruscio.com/consult-dr-ruscio/.

-Rob

 

[Hue]

Mr. Rob,

Good stuff in your post.

I just wanted to point out that the reason fixing your gut issues --> possibly cures anxiety issues is mainly because 90% of your serotonin receptors are in your gut. You get a healthy gut and your 5-HT goes back to more functional levels, which can help with depression/anxiety.

Drugs that enhance GABA are not in my favorite set of drugs (benzodiazepines) because they're highly addictive and like you said depress your CNS with other side effects. Then you're suspectable to seizures when you're coming off the shit - the high risk of abuse coupled with that is bad fucking news.

SSRI's, while fallable, are usually what clinicians recommend because they effectively make serotonin transmission more likely to happen which has shown to play a major role in anxiety and mood disorders. This comes fill circle into why there's ways to get your neurological imbalance back to normal that aren't pharmacology dependant.

Exercise, meditation, diet (food's a drug), and a number of more specific methods can all produce similar effects since the brain and body can fix itself when taken care of properly. Cliche recommendations, but sometimes things are cliche because they fucking work. Thus, going to a clinician isn't always necessary, but there's a lot of data to suggest that just getting your ass into a place focused on improvement produces remission of the issues. It can be that little extra mmph to get the ball rolling. Plus #placebo.

Thought that adding in the why in some of the things brought up here could be helpful in a more holistic understanding.


Hue

 

[Rain]

Rain,

Has anyone here ever gone on any medication or seen some sort of therapist? I have anxiety like symptoms, could also be irritable bowel syndrome as well.

However if I were in your shoes I'd be asking why am I having these symptoms (IBS, anxiety, intestinal issues) in the first place. To get a doctor that actually cares about diagnosing the cause rather than the symptoms you'll have to find a doctor that practices Functional Medicine.

This all started when I got mono/glandular fever. Symptoms appeared early October 2011 vomiting and feeling sick and loss of appetite. Don't like vomiting or that weak feeling so was a bit agitated and called mum. As month went on, got upper stomach pain 18th and major sore throat and swollen lymph node/gland in neck 20th. First sign of this bowel problem was 25th October bowel feeling but felt would be diarrhea/runnylike, my notes don't say if I actually used the bathroom here but next paragraph definitely did.

Then for 2 weeks things seemed fine, then nausea feeling and stomach pain again on 8th Novermber.
20th November had bowel movement and yeah second bowel movement was softer. Also noticed on this day walking around with clenching abdomen muscles unsure if bad posture or just part of being sick/stressed.
21st of November loss of appetite. Lymph node was swollen but had gone down again. 26th November swollen lymph node again and another bowel movement where second part comes out softer/yucky.
4th December, contacted oneitis, next day didn't hearback, I was very agitated.
16th December, maccas, then really really bad bowel feeling like urgent movement, came out slightly different colour green or grey? very agitated/anxious in this moment. Called mum talked for 1hr and calmed down.

Does glandular fever involve vomiting? Some sites don't list vomiting. Someone asked this on an IBS forum and reckoned the vomiting could be from a short term GI infection [along side glandular fever?] and lead to post infectious IBS. http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/topic/15 ... her-virus/

That might explain why lymph nodes and throat went back to normal but bowel issues remained. Doctor reckons irritable bowel syndrome. Functional Doctor I have read about but not tried yet. Vagus nerve, I've read about that somewhere before as well. Did you have a blood test or something to find out which foods you may be sensitive to? Is there any test that your vagus nerve is normal?

Mr. Rob,

Good stuff in your post.

I just wanted to point out that the reason fixing your gut issues --> possibly cures anxiety issues is mainly because 90% of your serotonin receptors are in your gut. You get a healthy gut and your 5-HT goes back to more functional levels, which can help with depression/anxiety.

Drugs that enhance GABA are not in my favorite set of drugs (benzodiazepines) because they're highly addictive and like you said depress your CNS with other side effects. Then you're suspectable to seizures when you're coming off the shit - the high risk of abuse coupled with that is bad fucking news.

SSRI's, while fallable, are usually what clinicians recommend because they effectively make serotonin transmission more likely to happen which has shown to play a major role in anxiety and mood disorders. This comes fill circle into why there's ways to get your neurological imbalance back to normal that aren't pharmacology dependant.

Exercise, meditation, diet (food's a drug), and a number of more specific methods can all produce similar effects since the brain and body can fix itself when taken care of properly. Cliche recommendations, but sometimes things are cliche because they fucking work. Thus, going to a clinician isn't always necessary, but there's a lot of data to suggest that just getting your ass into a place focused on improvement produces remission of the issues. It can be that little extra mmph to get the ball rolling. Plus #placebo.

Thought that adding in the why in some of the things brought up here could be helpful in a more holistic understanding.


Hue

Yeah I have read that too, 90% serotonin are in the gut. There is also a study that followed 1000 people, 50% got anxiety then developed IBS. The other 50% got IBS first, then developed anxiety after it. Good point about Benzodiazepines, there is a website benzobuddies forum for those trying to come off them.

Ever since this problem started for me, I have sometimes noticed, with 'trigger drinks' eg milk? or protein shake, if I make a protein shake, even before I make it, I can feel myself getting a bit nervous or sick stomach / bowel, I'd need to che ck notes for if that happened lots or a little, but that sort of sounds like a learned behaviour. With milk, I drink it then within 2mins, bowel feeling and anxious. BUT I gave up milk, still had the bowel anxious issue, just not straight after having milk because I cut milk out. So that proves that , milk itself isn't a cause , it just may be a trigger. Other times I can drink milk no issues. Before this started, milk was fine never had this problem. Definitely a point from glandular fever or if it was a GI infection too, that I've not been the same.

I see the other thread you linked shall take a look. Woud a GABA supplement help alongside exercise? I searched blood test for 5ht but I think that is more for testing for cancer as opposed to the 5ht levels that would enter the brain/gut or am I wrong on that one?

Found this, can also come to rely upon supplements too eg GABA? Or is it downregulated receptors not the GABA itself. Wish there was blood test for this stuff, instead of guess work
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index ... ic=52868.0

 

[Cacc]

Anyone else get a bit angry knowing that a lot of doctors don't really know wtf they're doing and blindly hand out prescriptions? Some of the advice I've heard from doctors is absolutely retarded to someone that has actual knowledge in the subject(like a doctor trying to give advice on nutrition and exercise).

What do doctors learn at medical school? Cus a lot of the doctors I've seen seem to not be super educated in important subjects.

 

[Hue]

Rain,

Sounds like this could go either way, really. Psychological effects from / to the biome in the gut is highly related, but it's really tough to pin down what's the chicken or the egg in a lot of these cases. I'm also no expert, and just drawing ideas from what I've learned at university and private study.

One thing that comes to mind is firstly attempting to rid yourself of any preconceived notion of what the cause might be, and thereafter exposing yourself to something previously thought to be problematic, mimicking exposure therapy. That combined with a probiotic diet and clean foods (greens + white meat + fat free yogurt, etc.) and exercise is really the best I can recommend.

And again, if you haven't already, going to a professional might shine some light on things if all else fails. And if it is a GI infection, antibiotics could help ya there, too as I'm sure you know.

Woud a GABA supplement help alongside exercise? I searched blood test for 5ht but I think that is more for testing for cancer as opposed to the 5ht levels that would enter the brain/gut or am I wrong on that one?

I know nothing about GABA supplements but GABA itself doesn't cross the blood brain barrier so taking like, "gaba concentrate" won't do much for you. Also not too sure about a comment a guy makes on there about a large amount of gaba receptors in the gut. Might be true but I've never heard that.

As far as 5HT in your blood goes, 5HT is synthesized from tryptophan, which gets into the cytoplasm of your neurons and goes through a few reactions before becoming serotonin. So, maybe see what foods synthesize what your possible deficit is if you want to continue experimenting with the biome / gut situation.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Anyone else get a bit angry knowing that a lot of doctors don't really know wtf they're doing and blindly hand out prescriptions? Some of the advice I've heard from doctors is absolutely retarded to someone that has actual knowledge in the subject

Dude don't even get me started on the level of incompetence.

@RAIN

Ahh glandular fever huh? That's a pain in the ass virus. Sounds like it wrecked your immune system and perhaps took a toll on your gut due to stress and not being well adept to fight off any bad invaders and I guess your gut never recovered since then.

Wish there was blood test for this stuff, instead of guess work

The good news there is. Functional medicine has a plethora of in depth testing they can do that conventional doctors ignore or don't have at their disposal due to 3rd party regulation by insurance companies and the fact they aren't trained to interpret them. Its pretty interesting the amount of really profound scientific advances in testing over the past few years that has gone mostly unnoticed because the mainstream doesn't acknowledge what these testing companies are doing (since said testing companies are testing for things that can't be addressed with medication).

If you were to go this route you'd most likely do at minimum a comprehensive gut biome test (stool test) and a vitamin/mineral deficiency test (blood) which would give you a wealth of data on the condition of your gut and bacteria health (you have up to 6 pounds of good/bad bacteria in a healthy gut, throw those out of balance and you'll always have problems) and also test for which nutrients your deficient in (since you can't rebuild your body systems if you have multiple micronutrient deficiencies, not to mention if you gut is compromised your not absorbing those nutrients anyway). Then based on your past health history the doctor may order other things so you don't have to try and be a detective on your own, which takes a lot of stress away once you finally know the culprit of your issues.

I plugged away on my own for years trying to be my own doctor since I couldn't find a good one but once I finally learned there's a field of medicine doctors that have learned everything I'm trying to learn now 10 years ago and have been successfully treating my condition for years so I just said fuck and paid the man. Its been the best $3,000 I've ever spent.

-Rob

 

[Cacc]

Rain,

the truth is, taking anti depressants will only dampen the symptoms(if they work) not cure the problem. It's like a fat girl getting surgery to remove the fat, yet she never fixes her die or eating habits.

You need to do research and look at the root of the problem, and fix it.

I recommend you view this ted talk if you have the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaY4m00wXpw

 

[Lover]

Rain: How is your sleeping pattern?

 

[Ryan0802]

I would also recommend Magnesium (take it at night as it impedes on the absorption of other nutrients if you take it during the day)
Magnesium also helps you have a deeper sleep based on what I've read (melatonin helps you get to sleep, but magnesium helps the deep sleep) I take 200-400mg
I recommend b/c it helps brain function & if you're deficient (like most of the world) then studies have shown it helps in reducing anxiety.

Optional after the magnesium you can also take lavender or kava. I'll let you research those if interested.

 

[Rain]

So I was taking some fish oil, and that was helping, it wasn't a cure, but it was stopping the panic symptoms from being so bad. Recently it either stopped working but I'm not sure why. Diet seems the same, unless it's because I'm trying to eat more, or it could be working out is also playing a role, or maybe the fish oil despite being in the fridge can still go off. I'll definitely get some new fish oil see if that helps and recheck the food diary.

Sleeping pattern is usually good. I did try magnesium but it didn't seem to help. The sleep side of things is usually ok. Bit bad recently ,but generally it's ok.

I have had stool checked twice through the medical doctor, found nothing. One of those was actually green, very surprised found nothing. Doctor said must have had a bug or something? These loose stools I have that cause this anxious/panic feeling, they are usually normal colour, they are rarely green or something. However, when all this started, my notes do say there was one that was green/grey looking, which could indicate some sort of GI infection at the same time as glandular fever. For a broader stool gut biome test, is a naturopath or gastroenterologist possible, or does it need to be someone who does functional medicine?

For all of August and September 2011, I was very grief/sad over oneitis that I had from someone I was seeing in July. So that's 2 full months of ruminating, feeling down, thinking I won't find anyone else. But I was still working, eating, sleeping. But yeah, unhealthy obsession with this person. So, is that enough to bring on a glandular fever or GI infection? Could I have had glandular fever and it only activated due to this grief, can grief cause stress? Can oneitis cause or be playing a big role here or not so much? I had no bowel issues during those 2months of oneitis.

I met a oneitis slight lookalike in June 2012, that didn't workout then went on a date with someone not keen on her, and then thought about oneitis again and... I did feel very sick, no bowel issue, but yeah just... hard to describe sometimes but just very sick like I may feint. I didn't feint, but yeah I just... a bit anxious possibly without bowel in that moment. Hard to remember if it felt the way I feel these days with the bowel issue, I'd say quite likely as I did need to call a close friend, and as soon as they came over, in person, I felt better.

I think to myself I must be stressing because I can't get a 10, or I 'm not powerful, or oneitis issues, or etc. But I reckon all of that would still be there even without the bowel issue, it would still be there as a negative thing, but it may not affect me as much. Take the oneitis as proof, why didn't I start getting loose stools for those 2x months? That's why I reckon something else has happened , a learned behavior, or something with gut biome that's hard to diagnose.

Another symptom is my balls they will sometimes go a bit goosebumps? tingly? maybe move a bit... and then after that sometimes yeah this can happen. Feel a bit tense and then the bowel feeling can happen straight after that. You could argue in that sense that's a thought or something, but it could also be me 'knowing ahead of time'. Sometimes, I may not be having a full panic, but I know don't eat anything right now, due to how I'm feeling eg loss of appetite, and if I do eat something, it can set me off.

 

[Mr.Rob]

For a broader stool gut biome test, is a naturopath or gastroenterologist possible, or does it need to be someone who does functional medicine?

Interesting your conventional doctor tested your stool, do you remember what all that tested for? I hear conventional stool tests are pretty limited in scope.

A naturopath might be able to order a comprehensive test but a functional medicine doctor will definitely be able to. Most comprehenisve stool tests are done over the course of 3 days at your own house and typically demand 4-8 vials of stool in total. Be sure it checks for a minimum of gut inflammation, candida yeast, parasites, and bacterial dysbiosis.

A good one will likely cost in the $350 - $650 range and its worth its weight in gold.

So, is that enough to bring on a glandular fever or GI infection? Could I have had glandular fever and it only activated due to this grief, can grief cause stress? Can oneitis cause or be playing a big role here or not so much?

So chronic stress in any form (emotional, mental, physical, etc) naturally causes gut inflammation, which weakens the immune system, and leaves people afflicted susceptible to virus's and illness. Many a times a chronic illness/collection of symptoms is brought on after a trying emotional period of ones life, this is common with chronic illnesses.

You really should get the root cause of your issues diagnosed man if you've been having trouble since 2012. Functional medicine might be expensive but its the only way you'll figure out exactly what the problem is without becoming a doctor in your own right, and for me its been worth every dollar in getting healthy again.

Not saying FM is the end all be all, sure there's plenty of overhyping via marketing but at the end of the day when it comes to chronic illness and chronic symptoms its the best option out there for actually getting sick patients back to a healthy prosperous life.

-Rob

 

[BetaBoy]

I take them for a sleep disorder I have, they can potentially mess up your sex drive. Think viibryd is less likely though.