Any advice for dudes who pick an argument with you over some tiny details in front of people/girls ?

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

So, recently I got into an argument with another dude about some detail that's almost irrelevant in front of a group and girls also. I talked something about Covid Vaccines cause it was related to our work stuff and a guy in the group started nit-picking every detail about what's wrong or whats right. It automatically put me on the defense and we started arguing. This went on for awhile and then I was like wait a minute, why am I even arguing with this kid? This kid looks like a fucking dork. So in the end he said something like "Whatever opinions you have, it doesn't matter because facts are facts. How do you not understand?" I just said "you have great points my guy, hope you're right" and I just kind of left but felt like "i lost?"

When someone who obviously gets no play and have a frustrated social life (it's always these types) tries to pick a small detail and start shit, what's the best way to handle it? Is it best to just have an amused frame and ignore him?

I'd like some inputs because I noticed it's always some socially awkward kid that tries to do this shit (and by association through work or class). Someone I would never hang out with in real life. I guess by getting defensive, i fell into his frame?

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@DaVinciMatrixStyle dude! By getting defensive it sounds like you've gotten emotional which is why you feel like you've lost. Though exiting a stupid argument that doesn't matter is always a win.

Ultimately you've reacted, by the time you realised and made a strategic exit it's already got out of hand. It's a lesson in picking and choosing your battles, if it's not worth it don't get involved.

It depends what they're arguing about and if it's worth it. If it's worth it tool them and let them know they're wrong, just don't react. I got involved in a stupid incident because I questioned something that didn't make sense. They overreacted like a child, created a lot of drama and got very animated. I sat still, didn't react and pointed out the flaw again very calmly. They looked socially inept where I looked confident in their shit storm. If they continue just look bored and move on.

This is frame control, ignore them and change the conversation topic if it's a bad one. If you've opened up the thread and it's something you still have to discuss (work related) it's about not reacting to them. You need to lead the conversation, depending on the context you can acknowledge their input, ask about it or offer new information. It's about handling the situation in a social way but you can only do this if you're calm and in control.

Depending on the nitpicking, if you've made a figure up like "there's 100 people over there!" and they correct you telling you "capacity is 60" you can accept this and thank them "oh really? Thanks for letting me know! / you keep me right/ I'd have looked stupid/ it looks a lot more.. - so as I was saying there's 60 people.... this accepts their input but keeps you in control rather than justifying yourself to them. It's a socially way to deflect what they've gave you but keeping on the topic.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

@DaVinciMatrixStyle dude! By getting defensive it sounds like you've gotten emotional which is why you feel like you've lost. Though exiting a stupid argument that doesn't matter is always a win.

Ultimately you've reacted, by the time you realised and made a strategic exit it's already got out of hand. It's a lesson in picking and choosing your battles, if it's not worth it don't get involved.

It depends what they're arguing about and if it's worth it. If it's worth it tool them and let them know they're wrong, just don't react. I got involved in a stupid incident because I questioned something that didn't make sense. They overreacted like a child, created a lot of drama and got very animated. I sat still, didn't react and pointed out the flaw again very calmly. They looked socially inept where I looked confident in their shit storm. If they continue just look bored and move on.

This is frame control, ignore them and change the conversation topic if it's a bad one. If you've opened up the thread and it's something you still have to discuss (work related) it's about not reacting to them. You need to lead the conversation, depending on the context you can acknowledge their input, ask about it or offer new information. It's about handling the situation in a social way but you can only do this if you're calm and in control.

Depending on the nitpicking, if you've made a figure up like "there's 100 people over there!" and they correct you telling you "capacity is 60" you can accept this and thank them "oh really? Thanks for letting me know! / you keep me right/ I'd have looked stupid/ it looks a lot more.. - so as I was saying there's 60 people.... this accepts their input but keeps you in control rather than justifying yourself to them. It's a socially way to deflect what they've gave you but keeping on the topic.

Awesome!

 

[Will_V]

So, recently I got into an argument with another dude about some detail that's almost irrelevant in front of a group and girls also. I talked something about Covid Vaccines cause it was related to our work stuff and a guy in the group started nit-picking every detail about what's wrong or whats right. It automatically put me on the defense and we started arguing. This went on for awhile and then I was like wait a minute, why am I even arguing with this kid? This kid looks like a fucking dork. So in the end he said something like "Whatever opinions you have, it doesn't matter because facts are facts. How do you not understand?" I just said "you have great points my guy, hope you're right" and I just kind of left but felt like "i lost?"

When someone who obviously gets no play and have a frustrated social life (it's always these types) tries to pick a small detail and start shit, what's the best way to handle it? Is it best to just have an amused frame and ignore him?

I'd like some inputs because I noticed it's always some socially awkward kid that tries to do this shit (and by association through work or class). Someone I would never hang out with in real life. I guess by getting defensive, i fell into his frame?

A good way to exit might be putting your hands up and saying something like:

"Oh, hey! Sorry for getting so argumentative, it's been a long day. We all have out opinions and they've gotta be respected." giving them no room whatsoever to claim victory because you've already owned up to and dismantled your own reaction without conceding the point. If they keep going, just imply that you have provoked them and they are reacting to you by continuing to apologize.

 

[Glow]

i tend to raise my brows with a "thats a lil too much/socially uncalibrated type facial reaction"

i do this purposefully slowly

so in a slowed down im a lil screening him sorta way, holding the tension. in the lazy direction.

potential glance at the girl eye coding style to instigate this w her or in your case the group

verbally i sorta draw back like if a person is too intense avoidance style to diffuse the situation = i dont wanna spend time w you/waste of time

and i maintain it if he continues or set him in his place

What it does
- subcommunicates that hes too much nonverbally
- diffuses the drama
- makes you unreactive and appear higher ranking
- indicates you dont spend time on nonsense

girls have apologized to me on behalf of their friends with this when their chode friends went down paths like that

remember that most girls are more sensitive to these things and if hes socially uncalibrated he will be rough in his energy which becomes loosers game.

 

[Elwa]

i tend to raise my brows with a "thats a lil too much/socially uncalibrated type facial reaction"

i do this purposefully slowly

so in a slowed down im a lil screening him sorta way, holding the tension. in the lazy direction.

I think the key here is to make sure you're not responding to the guy, rather communicating to the entire group and trying to get the topic back to something productive.

You can even try to lead the group at the same time "Are we just gonna sit here and argue or are we gonna play/drink/talk/chill/(whatever you see most fit for the moment)." It all depends on the dynamic, whether it's a party or a gathering, a bonfire or whatever

I'm very expressive so I usually combine that with what Glow said when in a similar situation.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

When someone who obviously gets no play and have a frustrated social life (it's always these types) tries to pick a small detail and start shit, what's the best way to handle it? Is it best to just have an amused frame and ignore him?

I'd like some inputs because I noticed it's always some socially awkward kid that tries to do this shit (and by association through work or class). Someone I would never hang out with in real life. I guess by getting defensive, i fell into his frame?

This is very common.

What's happening

You have the frame, he attempts to steal the frame by throwing in things that make you react.

If you react, he takes the frame, because now you're combatting his nonsense.

Keep in mind, most of the time people are NOT consciously trying to manipulate situations to make themselves the "leader of the group". Most men are not strategic, and of those that are strategic most are not strategic most of the time.

A Technical Solution

A typical PUA response is to AMOG/Shit Test Defenses

• A look with a facial expression (+ turn to the audience and make eye contact)
• Back turn
• Purposeful silence
• Dropping the conversation
• Changing the conversation
• Taking the frame by agreeing and amplifying
• Going from topic to ad hominem (You would say that)
• Going for the jugular (that's what an incel basement retard would say...)
• Putting your hand on his shoulder (and watching him get immediately defensive)
• Say something about him to the crowd, and turn them against him.

Any sort of "argument" always needs to be met "orthogonally", never head on.

And the defense to "from left field attacks" is to call out the technique - "Oh, you're gonna turn your back on me....Suddenly you got all quiet, funny how you wanna change subjects when you're wrong....etc.

Deeper Solution/Inner Game/Self Esteem/Ego Level

One of the issues in implementing the PUA stuff is that when you are inexperienced or out of practice with a particular thing - you revert to automatic responses.

I can think of 2 AMOGs i've ever dealt with in the night life. Most of the time those dudes are furniture, background.

But at work? That's when PUA starts to illuminate life itself. That's when openers mean so much more.

So on a technical level a man has to identify the threats, be well practiced in the response, have the courage to use the response, and then deal with the fall out, if any.

Even before a man gets to the action stage, he has to be able to slow down the interaction and see what is at stake.

Obviously, there are social dynamics at play.

However, what is causing him to have an emotional reaction?

Why is this guy/girl getting under your skin.

Does the man even realize he's having a reaction in the first place?

Does he act or react?

And that's the key. You beat these threats when you recognize that you are reacting and not acting.

The only thing that I've found that works for me - is to meditate.

When I meditate, the real strength is not in resisting my wandering mind - but recognizing that my mind has wandered, and then getting back on the path. If meditation were physical exercising, getting back on the path is the rep, staying on the path is the rest between reps.

That said, this is not an easy fix. You either need to put yourself in the line of fire a lot, to learn how to act/react, or you do some deep inner work

WIA

 

[D. Gately]

Some great advice given above. It can be quite hard to be unreactive. As someone who is a quick & skilled verbal fencer, I've gotten dragged into these more over the years than I'd wish, even when I 'win.'

Another good move is to calmly say, 'Well, you can have the last word.' and then change the topic and start talking to the group.

The group thinks you're calm and in control. If he brings it up again he looks like a try-hard loser [don't respond!] then you eye-roll one of the hot chicks. You haven't apologized. If he gets mad you ended the argument, the group is thankful you acted to defuse the situation already. If he drops the topic you get the credit for being socially calibrated, even dominant.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

This is very common.

What's happening

You have the frame, he attempts to steal the frame by throwing in things that make you react.

If you react, he takes the frame, because now you're combatting his nonsense.

Keep in mind, most of the time people are NOT consciously trying to manipulate situations to make themselves the "leader of the group". Most men are not strategic, and of those that are strategic most are not strategic most of the time.

A Technical Solution

A typical PUA response is to AMOG/Shit Test Defenses

• A look with a facial expression (+ turn to the audience and make eye contact)
• Back turn
• Purposeful silence
• Dropping the conversation
• Changing the conversation
• Taking the frame by agreeing and amplifying
• Going from topic to ad hominem (You would say that)
• Going for the jugular (that's what an incel basement retard would say...)
• Putting your hand on his shoulder (and watching him get immediately defensive)
• Say something about him to the crowd, and turn them against him.

Any sort of "argument" always needs to be met "orthogonally", never head on.

And the defense to "from left field attacks" is to call out the technique - "Oh, you're gonna turn your back on me....Suddenly you got all quiet, funny how you wanna change subjects when you're wrong....etc.

Deeper Solution/Inner Game/Self Esteem/Ego Level

One of the issues in implementing the PUA stuff is that when you are inexperienced or out of practice with a particular thing - you revert to automatic responses.

I can think of 2 AMOGs i've ever dealt with in the night life. Most of the time those dudes are furniture, background.

But at work? That's when PUA starts to illuminate life itself. That's when openers mean so much more.

So on a technical level a man has to identify the threats, be well practiced in the response, have the courage to use the response, and then deal with the fall out, if any.

Even before a man gets to the action stage, he has to be able to slow down the interaction and see what is at stake.

Obviously, there are social dynamics at play.

However, what is causing him to have an emotional reaction?

Why is this guy/girl getting under your skin.

Does the man even realize he's having a reaction in the first place?

Does he act or react?

And that's the key. You beat these threats when you recognize that you are reacting and not acting.

The only thing that I've found that works for me - is to meditate.

When I meditate, the real strength is not in resisting my wandering mind - but recognizing that my mind has wandered, and then getting back on the path. If meditation were physical exercising, getting back on the path is the rep, staying on the path is the rest between reps.

That said, this is not an easy fix. You either need to put yourself in the line of fire a lot, to learn how to act/react, or you do some deep inner work

WIA

This is great. I never really thought about why is he getting under my skin. It's probably some kind of fear such as looking dumb or something. And it's extremely annoying.

I also forgot about meditation. When i went to vipassana meditation course, I remember not being phased by about anything. My mind has gotten soft.

Thanks for the pointers

 

[Gunwitch]

and I just kind of left

Instead,

"yeah hell man you're right, very true", go back to talking about whatever you were talking to the girls, rehook, and DON'T EJECT.

Only failure in your situation, was YOU leaving.

No girls in that group cared if he was right or you were right. The girls were all bored by covid talk anyway. He probably ejected or got rejected 30 seconds after you did, sounds of him.

Gun

 

[dark hawk]

When someone who obviously gets no play and have a frustrated social life (it's always these types) tries to pick a small detail and start shit, what's the best way to handle it? Is it best to just have an amused frame and ignore him?

I'd like some inputs because I noticed it's always some socially awkward kid that tries to do this shit (and by association through work or class). Someone I would never hang out with in real life. I guess by getting defensive, i fell into his frame?

People here have provided great answers here, and I find @Gunwitch, @West_Indian_Archie , @Elwa answers more suitable to my style, adding on to the answers here...you could also try calling him out and answering him simultaneously by saying something like this "Hey man I will be glad to talk this over with you sometime later, but not right now when we are trying to have fun" What this does is, it puts you back in charge of the conversation while also subtly telling him to let it go...if he continues....you calmly say "Dude drop it we'll talk about it later if it means so much to you" and continue conversing with others.