Are these articles realistic?

[Franco]

JimmyB,

That's something that I wrestle with - if you know you can't have a lasting relationship with a girl, or even more than a one night stand - is it right to go all out and make her fall in love with you? And for yourself it can be taxing because you form this strong attachment with a girl and then never see her again. Am I looking at this the wrong way? I just feel like that's a bit reckless behavior and toying with emotions.

I wouldn't worry about this too much -- women are very much "okay" with one-night stands these days. Occasionally you'll get the "crazy" chick who starts talking about marriage right after you have sex with her, but she's the exception to the rule. If anything, a girl like that could probably use a reality check and learn to temper her expectations.

What you need to be careful about is contacting a girl beyond a one-night stand with the purpose of sleeping with her again. The second you invite a girl over again and sleep with her on a separate occasion is the second that you set the expectation that this is going to be a fling (at the very least) or a possible monogamous relationship (at the most). This is actually fine, too, assuming that you set the correct expectations for the ensuing relationship you have with her.

The thing you want to avoid the most is setting the expectation that you're going to be monogamous with her at some point and then ripping that away from her randomly. That's when she feels lead on and hurt because she felt like you were communicating (through either your words or your actions [or both]) that you wanted something serious with her and then didn't give it to her. So just make sure you're always being congruent with what you want from each individual girl so that you protect their feelings.

Generally every girl that you have a fling with (even if you communicated expectations correctly) will be at least a little sad once you end the casual relationship, even if you managed expectations well. But if you took care of her emotions, she'll still think of you fondly and maintain a ton of respect for you.

- Franco

 

[JimmyB]

Franco, what stuck out to me the most in all of what you said is this:

I generally tend to not attempt to take any girls under the age of 24 into relationships these days for two reasons: (1) they are generally still too immature for my taste; they can make fun FWBs, but that's about it. And (2) they don't really know what they want, and they are still trying to find that.

Seeing as I'm 23 and just finishing school, maybe this is a big part of it? I also feel that relationships with girls several years younger than the guy tend to work better (based on what I've seen and heard) and I'm only just at the age where that's possible. I consider myself mature. Maybe it's that I'm dealing with more immature girls where a real relationship wouldn't really be possible for the time being? When I've had continued relationships, it's been with girls my age or older. Maybe age is a legitimate impediment. I think maybe a lot of girls aren't going to be sexually experienced enough yet for quick sex and then not equating it to love.

Occasionally you'll get the "crazy" chick who starts talking about marriage right after you have sex with her, but she's the exception to the rule. If anything, a girl like that could probably use a reality check and learn to temper her expectations.

This has happened and left me very confused as to how to continue. I liked her but knew things wouldn't work out. I feel like a lot of girls might still have a form of this mindset and so when you don't meet those expectations, they get upset, turn cold, etc.

 

[Franco]

JimmyB,

I think maybe a lot of girls aren't going to be sexually experienced enough yet for quick sex and then not equating it to love.

Yeah, there's generally two outcomes when sleeping with a young, inexperienced girl:

• (1) She equates it to love and wants to move very quickly toward something serious (otherwise she also might feel extra "slutty" if she doesn't make it into something serious)
  
  (2) She is young and broke up with a long-term (usually boring) boyfriend from high school or early college and is trying to sleep with lots of guys she determines to be "high value" and see how "high" she can get. (This can also explain why she might leave you suddenly for another guy if she gets over-confident and thinks that she can get even better -- this is also a result of "not knowing what she wants"). In other words, she's testing her own value on the market by trying out "lots" of guys.

EDIT:

To see the "type 2" girl's issue more clearly, here's the same scenario from Wikipedia:

The basic form of the problem is the following: imagine an administrator willing to hire the best secretary out of n rankable applicants for a position. The applicants are interviewed one-by-one in random order. A decision about each particular applicant is to be made immediately after the interview. Once rejected, an applicant cannot be recalled. During the interview, the administrator can rank the applicant among all applicants interviewed so far, but is unaware of the quality of yet unseen applicants. The question is about the optimal strategy (stopping rule) to maximize the probability of selecting the best applicant. If the decision can be deferred to the end, this can be solved by the simple maximum selection algorithm of tracking the running maximum (and who achieved it), and selecting the overall maximum at the end. The difficulty is that the decision must be made immediately.

So you can see why she might just pass up an opportunity with you -- she doesn't have enough experience to know what else is out there.

As an aside note, the "type 2" girls make great FWBs or casual relationship partners because you're allowing them to still play the field and "compare" the other guys she meets to you... all while still sleeping with you. This helps you completely avoid the problem posed above from the Wikipedia snippet. Generally, since she's already slept with you and still likes you (because she's still seeing you), you tend to hold the advantage here.

This has happened and left me very confused as to how to continue. I liked her but knew things wouldn't work out. I feel like a lot of girls might still have a form of this mindset and so when you don't meet those expectations, they get upset, turn cold, etc.

Well, if you somehow communicated that you were going this route with her before sleeping with her (although unlikely), then yeah, she might be upset with a good reason for it. But if she suddenly just brings it out of nowhere right after you slept with her, then that's a bit of a "red flag" for me. These girls are putting themselves into positions to get hurt, so it's up to them to rectify it (or keep doing it to themselves over and over again, which is why it's a "red flag" for me when a girl is like that).

- Franco

 

[JimmyB]

manson7, maybe you would elaborate on that? That's what these forums are for.

 

[Chase]

I’m late to this thread, but skimmed it and felt I should comment. This seems to be the crux of your thinking, Jimmy:

I've come to realize that pretty much all high-quality girls will only sleep with you if you take the slower route and actually go for the relationship. I feel like most of you on here are going to disagree with me on this point and say "if you were better, that wouldn't be true". But the reality is that girls have way more selection in who they sleep with than guys do. They are the ones who let us sleep with them, and so if you're not willing to bend to her frame at least somewhat, she'll just move on. Girls love to play games, and my view is that high-quality girls will win in the end if you never give in to their version of a relationship dynamic. Maybe I'm in the wrong place, but I've been reading this material for several years and that's my conclusion from personal experience. What confuses me is how this point of view doesn't seem to exist on this website. Is this not accurate?

Well, it’s not that it’s not accurate.

It IS accurate. For some men. Probably MOST men.

For most guys, they’re going to have to date a girl on her terms if they want to get her, particularly if she is one they rate highly. Most men simply do not exist in a reality of absolute abundance, where high caliber girlfriends are abundant and easily had for them, and without that, it’s nearly impossible to hold a frame where you really, truly are “the prize” that women must pass screens and meet standards and invest to get.

Until you get there, if you’re following the advice I give on dating, you’re probably going to be faking it somewhat (“deception”, BBoy seems to call it).

Once you get there, it is NOT deception though.

Really, seriously. She’s beautiful, intelligent, with a killer body, amazing personality, great job, just perfect all around? Cool, I’m excited. But she’s still going to do it on my terms, or I’m walking. I’ll just go meet another one like her. Might take me a few days, but I’ll find her. And when that is your attitude, women can smell it, and they absolutely love it.

You can’t really teach that. It’s like telling a guy how a successful man believes his time is worth $500 an hour or $1,000 an hour, and he works relentlessly to move lower-value work off his plate to free up his time for work that’s genuinely worth his time. You can tell a guy that, but you can’t make him believe that. I see plenty of entrepreneur friends doing low-level coding years after they’ve built their businesses, when they could outsource this for $15 or $30 an hour and work on business development instead. But for whatever reason, they cannot get into an “abundance of money” mindset, which means they’re probably trapped running small-sized businesses forever.

And I guess that’s accurate. For them, maybe their time really is only worth $15 an hour or $20 an hour.

But there are still men out there whose time is worth $1,000 an hour, or $10,000 an hour, or even a few who are worth $100,000 an hour. And how they got there was partly that they got themselves to the reality where the mentality took hold, but it was also partly that as the mentality took hold, they began to do the things necessary to bring their reality in line with what they believed it should be.

Frames are a curious thing. Identical men can be faced with identical situations, and, purely through the frames they hold in their heads, walk out with completely different outcomes.

The frames of “I must do things on her terms to get her” versus “she must do things on my terms to get me” are subtle differences in wording with colossal differences in the actions and behaviors of the respective men who hold them. This difference is immediately apparent even to high value women, and speaks volumes about how the man values himself.

Personally, the women I date are women with some of the strongest “men must bend to my terms” frames I encounter: beautiful, intelligent girls who do well in school, get advanced degrees, and secure good jobs, and who are used to men doing what they want. And I love dating women like this, because when they bend to my frame it’s all the more unique an experience for them. Women who are used to bending to men’s frames, it’s nothing special, they do that with every guy. Myself, I like to be the outlier in her life: the one guy who made her submit.

May not be for everyone, but I like high quality girls, and I enjoy the meeting of frames. And, when your frame is solid enough, it’s not a frame battle, it’s a simple natural submission of a woman to a man who is clearly more dominant than she is. It just makes sense for her to do.

Chase

 

[Zoro]

Frames are a curious thing. Identical men can be faced with identical situations, and, purely through the frames they hold in their heads, walk out with completely different outcomes.

This right here is important.

An example of this,

I never ever had the idea of taking girls on dates in high school. Didn't even have a thought of it. So I'd invite girls to my home with no second thoughts and I don't really remember any girls having a problem with this. I actually had lots of girls come over. Too bad I had no idea how to escalate and hooked up with virtually none.

Then, I realized that this is not normal and viewed as atypical, and now I second guess myself and don't have the same ease of inviting girls straight home as I used to do it. Silly, but powerful.

 

[trashKENNUT]

The problem when Chase says something and here i am freaking the fuck out.

I need to hide in my closet. :/

 

[HellAtlantic]

To the OP (whose mindset in this thread I actually agree with): I find it best to use GC as you would anything else in life - take what you can from it to help you become a better or more successful version of yourself and discard what you don't agree with. You should do this with anything in life. There's lots of excellent knowledge on this site, probably lots of fabricated anecdotes and stories from ppl trying to make themselves look awesome to Internet strangers, likely lots of ppl sleeping with 10 trolls and mutants for every 1 hot chick to pump up their numbers, and more helpful info and articles to improve yourself and improve your odds with women than you will ever need. You take what you think is congruent with your personality and throw away what doesn't work for you. I'm fortunate that I've taken more from GC that has improved myself than I've discarded. I'm still me at my core, just a better version of myself and more understanding of what attracts women than I was before I starting coming here. I wish this site was around when I was in college. I'd have ruled the fucking world.

 

[Bboy100]

Chase,

I’ll just go meet another one like her. Might take me a few days, but I’ll find her.

This is somewhat off-topic, but can you go a little deeper into how this works? I feel like even if you've mastered this stuff, it'll still take a lot longer than a couple days to find a girl who's "top caliber". The reason being that in my experience, attractive women are just as rare as attractive men. So unless you're doing an insane amount of approaches per day, doesn't it still take a long time to find a high caliber girl?

 

[ProblemSolving]

Chase,

I’ll just go meet another one like her. Might take me a few days, but I’ll find her.

This is somewhat off-topic, but can you go a little deeper into how this works? I feel like even if you've mastered this stuff, it'll still take a lot longer than a couple days to find a girl who's "top caliber". The reason being that in my experience, attractive women are just as rare as attractive men. So unless you're doing an insane amount of approaches per day, doesn't it still take a long time to find a high caliber girl?

As you get get more and more experienced, your requirements for a relationship quality girl will soar higher and higher. Depending on how picky you are, you may have to move to a different location or change your lifestyle so that you're exposed to more of these high caliber girls. You may have to move downtown to a major city, or you may have to get a job that puts you in contact with a lot of these girls.

In short, if you're not seeing dream girls very often, move or change your lifestyle so that you are. I could go on and on about how the location of where you live in a city will determine the quantity and quality of girls that you will get. It's just like fishing, when your buddy comes back from a weekend fishing trip with a ton of huge fish, you don't ask him what bait he was using, you ask him WHERE he went fishing. Once you've got your process and fundamentals down, the only thing holding you back will be the amount of exposure you get to the girls that you're after.

 

[Bboy100]

As you get get more and more experienced, your requirements for a relationship quality girl will soar higher and higher. Depending on how picky you are, you may have to move to a different location or change your lifestyle so that you're exposed to more of these high caliber girls. You may have to move downtown to a major city, or you may have to get a job that puts you in contact with a lot of these girls.

In short, if you're not seeing dream girls very often, move or change your lifestyle so that you are. I could go on and on about how the location of where you live in a city will determine the quantity and quality of girls that you will get. It's just like fishing, when your buddy comes back from a weekend fishing trip with a ton of huge fish, you don't ask him what bait he was using, you ask him WHERE he went fishing. Once you've got your process and fundamentals down, the only thing holding you back will be the amount of exposure you get to the girls that you're after.

Yeah, this definitely makes sense when we're talking about social circle ( ex. the girls I'm going to meet in cooking class are going to be a lot different than the ones I would meet in crossfit). But if we're doing Day Game, isn't the type of girl you meet going to be mostly the same (unless ofc, you move to a different country entirely)? For example, I feel like Day Game in downtown NYC is going to be pretty similar to Day Game in downtown Seattle. ...Maybe there's going to be a slight variance because NYC is culturally different from Seattle. But the difference probably isn't so great that it's going to completely change the "caliber" of girl I would meet. If anything, the difference would be lateral. So the girls would be just "different". But not necessarily "better" or "worse". I could be wrong. I've only lived in (near) one big metropolitan in my life. So perhaps I'm a little bit ignorant here haha.

 

[ProblemSolving]

Yeah, this definitely makes sense when we're talking about social circle ( ex. the girls I'm going to meet in cooking class are going to be a lot different than the ones I would meet in crossfit). But if we're doing Day Game, isn't the type of girl you meet going to be mostly the same (unless ofc, you move to a different country entirely)? For example, I feel like Day Game in downtown NYC is going to be pretty similar to Day Game in downtown Seattle. ...Maybe there's going to be a slight variance because NYC is culturally different from Seattle. But the difference probably isn't so great that it's going to completely change the "caliber" of girl I would meet. If anything, the difference would be lateral. So the girls would be just "different". But not necessarily "better" or "worse". I could be wrong. I've only lived in (near) one big metropolitan in my life. So perhaps I'm a little bit ignorant here haha.

I don't care what city you choose to live in, just make sure it's big (The bigger the better) and you live where exposure to lots of girls is easy (Ideally downtown). When I'm talking about caliber, I'm talking about attractiveness, since that's usually most guys' first requirement for a top caliber chick with all the other qualities that you screen for coming in second. It's not that all the cities' hot chicks are all downtown, it's just that the population density is so high that even top caliber girls are abundant.

When you say that you've lived near a big metropolitan city, now try moving to the heart of that city and watch your sex/relationship life miraculously kick into overdrive. Then you'll know what I'm getting at.

 

[Bboy100]

When I'm talking about caliber, I'm talking about attractiveness

Ahh, I see. I'm talking about EVERYTHING. I guess more specifically...how often do we find "girlfriend quality" women?

When you say that you've lived near a big metropolitan city, now try moving to the heart of that city and watch your sex/relationship life miraculously kick into overdrive. Then you'll know what I'm getting at.

This is good to know. Not possible for me to make this change right now because I go to college in a small town and I'm about to finish my major (transferring would likely cause me to lose a lot of credits). But I'm definitely hoping to do this after I graduate!

 

[Chase]

As you get get more and more experienced, your requirements for a relationship quality girl will soar higher and higher. Depending on how picky you are, you may have to move to a different location or change your lifestyle so that you're exposed to more of these high caliber girls. You may have to move downtown to a major city, or you may have to get a job that puts you in contact with a lot of these girls.

In short, if you're not seeing dream girls very often, move or change your lifestyle so that you are. I could go on and on about how the location of where you live in a city will determine the quantity and quality of girls that you will get. It's just like fishing, when your buddy comes back from a weekend fishing trip with a ton of huge fish, you don't ask him what bait he was using, you ask him WHERE he went fishing. Once you've got your process and fundamentals down, the only thing holding you back will be the amount of exposure you get to the girls that you're after.

Quite precisely!

I very much enjoyed living in Southern California, BBoy, as an example, however I noticed it was next to impossible for me to find women I wanted as girlfriends there, whereas I could find them in ready abundance when I lived in, say, Washington, D.C. So when finding girlfriend-caliber girls became a priority for me, I said farewell to SoCal.

For example, say you're like me and you really like women who not only are physically attractive, but have ambitions, advanced educations, and good careers. You can find plenty of physically attractive women in San Diego, but most of them have Bachelor's degrees at best and there are precious few industries to attract ambitious individuals. The folks in pursuit of education, advancement, and ambition go elsewhere. Whereas if you head to major capital cities in various countries, you'll often find legions of women who match this description. Alternately, you will not find so many chilled out, relaxed, life's-a-beach kind of girls in such places; so if those were your requirements for an LTR, you'd have much better luck finding girlfriend-caliber women in Southern California than you would in a capital city.

To use ProblemSolving's excellent example, if you're looking for marlin, fish where the marlin are. If you want tuna, fish where the tuna are. Etc. You can get pretty darn good at catching marlin if you only hunt for them in tuna-heavy waters where the marlin are scarce and you're forced to really optimize, but if you then pick up stakes and start frequenting the marlin haunts, instead of hauling in a marlin every 6 months now you're hauling 'em in daily.

Chase

 

[JimmyB]

Location is a huge part of it. Another aspect of abundance mentality I think is time. I'm realizing that over time, I inevitably encounter a good ltr-quality girl. If I were to be in a more densely populated area, I'm sure I would be catching "Marlin" more frequently. But I'm not a fan of big cities so I accept that it's a slower process. And when I encounter these girls I'm able to close it. Like one of you said, it's about knowing what you're looking for. So maybe that's a form of absolute abundance: knowing another girl just as good if not better will come along at some point and you can close it out. It's just certainly not a just few days for me, Chase, lol which I respect. I'd say more like a month or so. I just don't go out of my way a ton to meet girls and am ok with that. Also, no one catches Marlin on a daily basis, no matter how good a fisherman you are!

 

[Regal Tiger]

I very much enjoyed living in Southern California, BBoy, as an example, however I noticed it was next to impossible for me to find women I wanted as girlfriends there, whereas I could find them in ready abundance when I lived in, say, Washington, D.C. So when finding girlfriend-caliber girls became a priority for me, I said farewell to SoCal.

For example, say you're like me and you really like women who not only are physically attractive, but have ambitions, advanced educations, and good careers. You can find plenty of physically attractive women in San Diego, but most of them have Bachelor's degrees at best and there are precious few industries to attract ambitious individuals. The folks in pursuit of education, advancement, and ambition go elsewhere. Whereas if you head to major capital cities in various countries, you'll often find legions of women who match this description. Alternately, you will not find so many chilled out, relaxed, life's-a-beach kind of girls in such places; so if those were your requirements for an LTR, you'd have much better luck finding girlfriend-caliber women in Southern California than you would in a capital city.

Chase,

What are some of the factors that play into 'where the tuna/marlin' are?

Example; I like artistic women with ambitions that can hold a philosophical conversation and are sweet and nerdy (so I've come to believe at the moment, could very well change as I discover more of those kinds of girls to base my expectations off of rather than just the 2 so far).

I've noticed that where I live now (moving in a week) I would find a girl I would like to have as a girlfriend once a year. 2014 girl was through online and 2015 girl was through social circle (and both in the last 1/4 of the year which is weird..). I also plan on getting more into photography as I've found a passion for it and believe that I'll find loads more of my kinds of women through that and plan on building a social circle through it (and a few other things that I enjoy doing, but mostly through photography).

But where should I go in the end? How do you determine if a city is a 'marlin' worthy city for you? Or even States or Continents? What data should I be looking at to figure this stuff out?

Or is it more based off of the area in the city/state that you're in? Another example would be that I'm moving close to Nashville Tennessee. Where should I go first?

Thanks for reading

 

[Ragnarok]

hey Chase or Franco, this question is directed more at you but anyone could answer I have a little mental conundrum about fast sex.

So this girl I used to date once before she met me was texting this guy for about two weeks and she had a huge crush on him and invited him over to her house as a first date to watch a movie. At her house, she pushed the interaction farther while he acted kind of awkward and she kissed him and that led to a makeout after which he started demanding sex from her and eventually she gave in. So this was kind of a coerced consent kind of deal and afterwards they dated for a couple of weeks and then she ended the relationship to go to college.

The first day I saw this girl, I approached her and we mutually decided to spend a day together and we escalated together and then she invited me back to her place with the classic im not sleeping with you line and then I went to her room and got to third base, and I tried to go all the way and tried to push through asd and lmr several times repeating but she was still raw with emotion from her ex and after about 4 to 5 cycles of repeats she turned away and tried to sleep and i gave up that night. I finally was able to have sex with her about a week later.


So she knew her ex longer before anything happened and they had coerced consent sex but it was on their first date whereas I got her to third base the first day I met her and had sex with her about a week later and we had started a relationship too.

so which scenario makes the girl feel like faster sex? Which situation is the faster to sex and the one that would make her look at the guy as dominant sexy and swept off of her feet more? please answer haha cant stop pondering this thank you so much


ps, her only other relationship was with a guy before both of us and it took him like a year to have sex and also he was secretly in the closet and a whole other situation

 

[JimmyB]

It's not that important specifically how quickly you sleep with a girl. 5 days vs 6 days, which is better?? No, it's more like as soon as the opportunity presents itself, you go for the close. You know you didn't dilly dally, she knows you didn't either. If it takes a few escalation attempts and you end up having sex, it means she wants to sleep with you and you're doing things right. Just maintain what you're doing. You can't control if she likes you or this other guy more, but you CAN be the one less likely to screw things up.
Cheers
JB

 

[Ragnarok]

so which one one was faster for when the opportunity presented itself?