Be PUA, be Child-Man - or be The Man?

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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This PUA thing... I'm still confused. PUA knowledge is great, I am still eager to learn any new stuff, and sometimes it seems like an endless stream of great material...

On the other hand, I have a feeling (ugh, ugly word) that most PUA are simply just not MAN enough. The Real Man simply doesn't worry much about women. He does manly stuff - lifts weights, built business, drives a fucking bike, or simply does all of it together. If he likes woman he goes directly after her without PUA knowledge, without shyness, without worries...

Such man has simply enough testosterone to go after any woman, he is not a wussy to hesitate. This guy has real balls to ask for what he wants - so what for does he need PUA knowledge? He is not afraid of what she says about him, whether she likes him or not. He is not afraid of rejection or bad reputation, he simply doesn't care because he is The Man. And the attraction is there automatic, it is a gift from Nature - no need to make attraction more attractive...

But in stead, Child-Man is popular today, Nice Guy who provides, who sucks up to women because he is afraid of being replaced. Child-Man is afraid to ask for what he wants, he worries what women will think and say about him, whether she will like him at all. Child-Man obeys woman, he cares too much. Fuck, he is a Child-Men, not a real Man. I know Child-Man, I have many friends like that, I am one of them.

I admit, I've been brainwashed by society. In today's western society, Women are in charge. Real man with open desire to fuck is being suppressed, called names, put on medications, blamed for inequality, even prosecuted - thus he has trouble ask for what he really wants. It is easier to watch porn than face rejection. And you watch porn, don't you? It is too much trouble to compete, to get good female...

So let's be honest, a man simply wants to fuck, and if the woman is good he will keep her. Why wouldn't he? What is wrong with fucking, with keeping the same woman if she is good? There is nothing wrong, but Nice Guy, Child-Men is afraid to stand up to her and tell her because he faces rejection. He needs to "feel secure" in his insecurity, thus he goes out and dates many different females. That is why he needs to study PUA, to become a master at it - so he can get in circles where he really wants to be...

So I have been experiencing with "building The Man" from Child-Man. Fuck Child-Men, fuck slow Nice and polite Guys, I am tired of being one of them. I work hard, I got muscles, I got decent looks and ambitions, very good education, and I can fight other men although I rather show respect. All this by itself generates quite a good attraction. But still, that is not Man enough, it is still not the Real Man. I am growing balls to tell woman that I want her, that I want to see her naked, bang her and so on - while looking directly in her eyes, without even worrying about her boyfriend(s). Of course I do it only when I know there is strong attraction and decent connection from her side, I am not an idiot. I simply take over, without asking, she follows. It is tough, very tough, especially during the day. I'm not pretending, I am afraid many times, sometimes I can't push myself to say anything no matter what, I simply can't find my balls. I missed many huge windows by not having my balls together, I still suffer too much of Nice Guy syndrome. But it is unbelievably attractive to females, just simply because in today's society not many men have balls to do it. Females many times flip out, they don't know what to do or say, sometimes they turn around and run, but the truth is that they are very attracted to man who has balls. They have to be attracted, they have no choice. The bigger balls, the bigger attraction, and mostly they come back. It is very simple, straightforward, it is what our ancestors (I believe) used to do for millions of years, without even speaking...

Men, Real Men, what happened to us? Let's take Our society back...

Any comments appreciated
 

Chase

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Drck-

Drck said:
On the other hand, I have a feeling (ugh, ugly word) that most PUA are simply just not MAN enough. The Real Man simply doesn't worry much about women. He does manly stuff - lifts weights, built business, drives a fucking bike, or simply does all of it together. If he likes woman he goes directly after her without PUA knowledge, without shyness, without worries...

You're guilty of something I think of as the "fallacy of born into it." e.g., a REAL man doesn't need to study dating, and seduction, and female psychology... he's just BORN being able to stick his dick into any woman he craves!

A REAL man doesn't need to learn how to rebuild the engine in his car... he was BORN with a toolset, a scissor lift, and a the blueprints to every internal combustion engine ever constructed imprinted in his brain!

A REAL man doesn't need to study martial arts... if someone looks at him funny, he executes a series of perfect punches, kicks, and elbows to all the right spots to overcome his opponent, even if that opponent's had YEARS of combat training... because he was BORN with the ability to kick ass anytime, anywhere on command!

There's no man out there like this. The men most late bloomers think of as "naturally good with women" have been approaching girls since they were 13 or 14 - they spent years making mistakes and learning, but they've largely forgotten them as they've grown older (because they don't sit and analyze it logically and talk about it in Internet forums) and couldn't tell you what they do. There are also guys who ride the laurels of good looks or wealth or fame and stick largely within their social circle, and you'll see them with pretty girls and they look like they have game, but take them out of that circle and they can't do anything, or see them 10 years later after they've married that pretty girl and you're shocked to see the girls have them by the balls because they never really had much experience, just a string of serial relationships with women they got from their one big advantage (although sometimes guys like this also do a lot of approaching and rack up experience there, too).

You really only study pickup and seduction for a few years and then you're done with it. You largely forget you even learned it. You ARE the "real man" who's now a natural. Most of the guys who were in my "class" in the social arts (guys who started learning around the same time I did) are no longer involved in any way in talking about dating on the Internet. Most people drop out somewhere before the end of the first or second year; they get good enough to land a girl who's cooler and prettier than what they could previously get and, in a moment of bliss, drop out of the game to be with this girl they're seeing stars and hearts over. Other guys are more committed and stick it out for the long haul. Those guys tend to graduate around the end of Year 4, and then vanish. The only guys who stay on longer are the guys who teach the stuff, and they only have about a 10 year shelf life, max, before they're just totally over the scene (I probably have a few more good years left in me, but it does sometimes wear on me, still talking about getting girls).

Personally, the only thing that keeps me able to relate to beginners is participating in this forum and responding to website comments. Whenever I take a little time largely away from the scene (it's been maybe a year since I have), I come back and guys are asking all these questions and it's like, "Jesus; you just go talk to her, and then bring her home. Stop making it so complicated!" But that's how it is once you know what you're doing; your brain has the patterns figured out, and all the lower level stuff is handled subconsciously so you aren't burdening your (slower and less efficient) conscious mind with navigating the small stuff (leaving your conscious mind free to do the heavy lifting, like, "Well, I probably stand a good chance of bringing this girl home sometime in the next 20 minutes, but her friend is significantly hotter and can't keep her eyes off of me. What's the best way for me to get over near her and ping her for interest to see if she's down without necessarily sacrificing this girl in case she isn't?").

I don't care how manly you are, if you don't have training or experience building car engines, if your car breaks down and it needs a rebuilt engine, you're not going to be all that useful. And if you don't have experience or training kicking people's asses, when somebody tougher and stronger and better trained than you are steps up to beat the hell out of you, he's going to succeed. And if you don't have experience or training meeting and dating women (whether you trained yourself, or somebody else trained you), you're not going to get the kind of success you want with women unless you have some inherent advantage (really good looks, loads of money, some situational advantage like being in a band or being a nightclub promoter or manager, access to a circle or a city where demographics are dramatically skewed in your favor - e.g., a Western guy going to Japan or the Philippines or Brazil outside of Sao Paulo or Rio).

Think of learning seduction as a stepping stone on the road to being "The Man."

Nobody slides out of his mother's womb with a stubble, a steely-eyed squint, a pair of shades, and a hard-on. We all start out as children. It's training and the gathering of experience that turn us into Men.

Chase
 

Drck

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I personally witnessed great fighters that were simply naturals, with minimal training they took down guys who were intensively training for several years. Of course with hard training they could get much further than others (e.g. great example would be Tyson)

I had a classmate who won swimming competion when he was 15 year old. He beat up all the other guys between 25-40 who were actively swimming for years. They couldn't keep up with him. It wasn't coincidence, he was just good at it, perhaps talent, or genetic predisposition.

Another classmate was drawing and painting amazing pictures when he was 12 or so, for most of us it would take a decade of hard work to learn such art skill. Unfortunatelly he passed away at young age. I can't do 10% today of what he did that time.

I'm sure there are tens of other examples. Sometimes people are just born with talent, and with minimal effort they can do stuff that others have to work for years. On the other hand, I've seen many times the unpleasant side of talent: Those who have it usually leave it many times unused, rusted, while those who are plain average yet work quite hard for long time, they become true masters in that specific area.

You also have great talent Chase, the way you describe things is just different, much more in dept, elaborated. It takes the PUA stuff to the next level. Of course you have worked hard on it for years, I read your stuff, and you had desire to compensate for your deficiency - but so did many other PUA. I don't think there is a guy who wouldn't like to read your stuff. Great work and Keep it up.

I just believe there must be simpler and more straightforward way. If a person is a great guy (The Man) most likely she will be very attracted anyway (so no need to study that much PUA skills). She will simply open her windows naturally, several times. She will wait till he makes move, she will make it easy for him, more visible. She will gravitate to him naturally, give him more chances (although I totally agree with the 'Attraction has expiration date'). How many women does a guy have to sleep with anyway? I think it is a personal preference, but if there is a great connection, high attraction and good friendship, it doesn't have to be rows of females to "get used to it". I am very attracted to some females, yet there are others that are quite good looking but I simply don't care about them - just for reason that there is no true "connection". I have no desire to be around them, to fuck them even if they invite me out. And they did.

And there is this great girl, thanks to PUA material I made her open quite several times. Good and wide open windows. But at the same time I was in my own way because I had bunch of PUA stuff in my head (do this, not that, wait, now do that) and thus couldn't do the "right" move, just stared at those windows... Yet if I didn't know PUA I would simply move forward without thinking, hesitation, without being frozen...

Which also makes me think about one of your article - "Secrets of getting Girls - The Last 5%". BTW I totally agree, I have to push as well - but only with woman I am not that attracted to. So why is that we have to "push" ourself for the last 5%? It should be natural, perhaps it should be the easiest 5%. So I think the fundamental question each guy should answer is, do I really want to fuck her, or do I just want to be around her because she makes me feel so good. Because if one wants to trully fuck it shouldn't be that difficult, no need to be pushing that much. Maybe we are too spoiled, maybe we were raised to have too many feelings, feelings like Child-Men.

Just a thought...
 

Franco

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Drck

So I think the fundamental question each guy should answer is, do I really want to fuck her, or do I just want to be around her because she makes me feel so good. Because if one wants to trully fuck it shouldn't be that difficult, no need to be pushing that much. Maybe we are too spoiled, maybe we were raised to have too many feelings, feelings like Child-Men.

I get what you're trying to say here, but it really isn't that simple. The problem is, you aren't just dealing with your own wants, needs, and emotions. You're dealing with hers, too.

I really don't think we are spoiled at all. Everything I've gotten good at (or I am getting good at), I had to put in an immense amount of time, focus, and effort into. To be honest, there are times that I really wish it was a simple as you make it sound to nail down a great woman; every man would happy (although this may not actually be the case, but that's for another thread). But because of the fact that you're dealing with other human beings, there is always going to be a conflict of interest. She may want you as a friend; you may want her as a girlfriend; she may want you as a lover; you may not want her at all; she may be worried you only want sex; you may be worried that's she's worried that you only want sex; and the list goes on and on.

There's a lot of hoops you have to jump through and obstacles you have to jump over to get what you want -- it's true that there are "naturals" out there who seem to just be able to get things done, but these guys always have their limitations too. While one guy may be excellent at swimming, he may also be terrible at talking to women. While one guy may be amazing at talking to women, he might be terrible at vibing with other men. It really depends a lot on how much they put themselves in situations where their abilities are tested; the more they are exposed to something, the more confidently they are going to be able to navigate it without much trouble the next time they encounter it, regardless of whether they have official "training" or not.

I hope this makes sense.

- Franco
 

Chase

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Drck-

Drck said:
I personally witnessed great fighters that were simply naturals, with minimal training they took down guys who were intensively training for several years. Of course with hard training they could get much further than others (e.g. great example would be Tyson)

I had a classmate who won swimming competion when he was 15 year old. He beat up all the other guys between 25-40 who were actively swimming for years. They couldn't keep up with him. It wasn't coincidence, he was just good at it, perhaps talent, or genetic predisposition.

Another classmate was drawing and painting amazing pictures when he was 12 or so, for most of us it would take a decade of hard work to learn such art skill. Unfortunatelly he passed away at young age. I can't do 10% today of what he did that time.

I'm sure there are tens of other examples. Sometimes people are just born with talent, and with minimal effort they can do stuff that others have to work for years. On the other hand, I've seen many times the unpleasant side of talent: Those who have it usually leave it many times unused, rusted, while those who are plain average yet work quite hard for long time, they become true masters in that specific area.

This seems to be the majority opinion: talent - either you're born with it, or ya ain't.

I've never found this belief among anyone with any degree of talent, however. The only people with this attitude are the outsiders... the ones who haven't mastered anything yet, and assume it's because they simply "weren't born with it."

I'm one of those people who's frequently called a "natural" in many fields. Outside of close friends and on the Internet / products / etc., I don't usually bother giving out more than snippets of advice here and there because most people's attitudes are, "Yeah, but you were doing that when you were X years old... clearly you're a natural," and they use that as an excuse to wiggle out of feeling like they have to achieve anything.

The only thing people seem to be "born with" are passions in or predilections for certain things. e.g., your classmate drawing and painting amazing pictures at 12... when did he start? My drawings used to get passed all around my classrooms when I was 12 too, but I didn't just wake up one day and it was that way. I started drawing and painting when I was 2 years old. My guess would be so did your classmate.

I had a conversation not long ago with a girl commenting on the hypnotic effect of my eyes, and how she noticed even when I'd look at a waitress serving us, the waitress would become entranced by my gaze. I tried explaining this was something I worked on hard for years to develop, from about 2007 to 2010; she wouldn't believe it. You're either born with it, or you aren't, she told me. She refused any effort by me to explain that this was something I had actively cultivated; she insisted (despite having only known me a year or so) that it was something I'd had my entire life. It was surreal. I almost started questioning whether my memories of years of study of people with hypnotic eye contact, trying to teach it to myself, were fabrications, in the face of this girl's constant insistence that she KNEW this was something I was born with.

Suggested reading for understanding achievement at higher levels:

Harvard Business Review: The Making of an Expert

Here's the first paragraph, just to wet your whistle:

Thirty years ago, two Hungarian educators, László and Klara Polgár, decided to challenge the popular assumption that women don’t succeed in areas requiring spatial thinking, such as chess. They wanted to make a point about the power of education. The Polgárs homeschooled their three daughters, and as part of their education the girls started playing chess with their parents at a very young age. Their systematic training and daily practice paid off. By 2000, all three daughters had been ranked in the top ten female players in the world. The youngest, Judit, had become a grand master at age 15, breaking the previous record for the youngest person to earn that title, held by Bobby Fischer, by a month. Today Judit is one of the world’s top players and has defeated almost all the best male players.

Bobby Fischer is one of the biggest chess legends there is.

The parents of these three girls were mediocre at best at chess.

There is no spoon.

Chase
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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How about the right "State of Mind". Sometimes guy's mind is down, he feels weak, and he wouldn't have mood to talk to nice looking girl. No PUA skills will help him, he just doesn't have the "guts" to do anything, his mind is weak. Other times, person can get "high", he can go after any hot female he chooses without hesitation, and anything he says or does is easy.

Such state of mind was discussed perhaps thousands of times in different words. The important thing is, if one depelops the WINNER attitude (is confident, have decent self-esteem, keeps it light and subtle, doesn't make a fool of himself,...), going after hot girls is quite easy. Person's mind just thinks that it can accomplish anything, which is reflected by his words and actions, and others will easily notice that. With such winner attitude and intent to GET HER TO BED ASAP, it can't be so difficult. In my experience, with such attitude many females are actually approaching you, not the other way.

Physiologically, it has to do with levels of testosterone the man has (as you correctly described in your article). Weak men are weak because they have weak minds, low testosterone, they are more passive, they have no goals. They sit around and wait. Strong men are more ambitious, goal oriented, active. They are achievers, thus "naturally" successful in different areas, including women. Of course they have to be honest to themselves in what they want (women), otherwise they are only avoiding the issue. He just knows that he wants women, and he goes after them with the right state of mind.

There are ways to increase testosterone levels - lifting weights, eating proper food, keeping lean and so on, doing outdoor activities. The point isn't to become Olympic body-builder, rather mind-builder with attitude "can do what the fuck I want and nothing will stop me". The body and health just follows as a side effect, and females follow as well.

Let's also mention porn. Porn is a killer for the right state of mind, being addicted to porn actually changes brain's architecture, like any other addiction. In brief, it changes the libido man has for woman, man isn't as horny as he would be without watching porn. Seeing hundreds of vaginas on screen every day overstimulates the brain, number of dopaminergic receptors in the brain drops, thus more and more stimulation is needed. The guy may still want women, but he is not stimulated enough to go after them. His mind is weak, his brain power dropped down. He is just not horny enough...

I believe, what women want is "The Man". Guy who isn't weak mentally or physically. Guy who is ambitious, goes after what he wants, is physically active, do the best to protect himself and his family. Man who can say anything he wants because he can stand up straight and has balls to back it up. Man who is not manipulated with her feelings, man who does what he wants without worrying what others think and say about it.

I'm not just writing it to make myself feel better, I am doing it, working on it every day. As I already mentioned, at times it is quite difficult to find balls because of how today's society views such man, and how I was raised in such society, but I am 100% convinced that this is unbelievably attractive to most females. I am definitely not "Alfa", nor have any desire to be. They do get pussy, true, but I see "Alfa" as quite primitive leaders, they exert so much energy to be successful and to lead, it is just ridiculous. No need to do so much work, Alfa is an antique. Such title belongs to wolfs, no longer among men. But I see many "Beta" males around, and as far as I can say, females attraction towards me (i.e. my attitude) is much greater than towards Betas.

With the right "state of mind", guy simply goes and asks for what he wants, suggests and implies that he loves females, sets the right place and time, and leads her where he wants with an INTENT to fuck her as soon as possible. If she resists, he pulls back, then tries again. And again, till his PERSISTANCE wins. He "draws her in" by having balls and setting up actions. Not much thinking is needed because she simply follows as she is very attracted.

Built The Man, grow balls, stop jerking off, say and do what the fuck you want to, make her feel good about herself, and she will follow. She simply has no other choice...
 

Drck

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… She may want you as a friend; you may want her as a girlfriend; she may want you as a lover; you may not want her at all; she may be worried you only want sex; you may be worried that's she's worried that you only want sex; and the list goes on and on. …. There's a lot of hoops you have to jump through and obstacles you have to jump over to get what you want...

Exactly, this is the Mind Set of today's man, this is our mindset. This Man – you and I – is too much considered about WHAT SHE WANTS - what she says, what she does, how she talks about him, whether she likes us and so on. We are such nice men, such good child-men, always considered about what she wants, always worry about hurting her feelings. But what if...

What if there is a way to change this current Mind Set. It is quite simple: WE ARE FUCKING MEN! As such, who cares about what she thinks and says (of course within reason and law)? Man wants to fuck. We want to fuck. We men, we got ahead of all the other species, we locked in cages the most dangerous animals. We can kill Lion with a simple move of a finger. THIS IS OUR FUCKING WORLD! Women didn't go out to risk their lives and win. Men did. WE DID. By risking our lives we made our women safe. So why worry about what woman wants, what woman feels...? We are not Child-Men. We are the biggest fucking predators This World has ever seen! Fucking our women is prize that we deserve!

Simple as that, there is nothing else to it, none of the above hoops applies. There are no hoops, fuck all the hoops. There are no strategies, just strong desire to fuck. She will either stay around and be eventually fucked, or she needs to leave (assuming that there is strong attraction to her). There is no middle ground, no fucking friendship, no negotiations, no compromises, no hurt feelings. There is no need to be an asshole, this man can still be Nice and polite Guy – the only difference is that he always pushes to get his price...

We need to take OUR society back, MEN need to get back in charge!
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
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Drck,

Drck said:
… She may want you as a friend; you may want her as a girlfriend; she may want you as a lover; you may not want her at all; she may be worried you only want sex; you may be worried that's she's worried that you only want sex; and the list goes on and on. …. There's a lot of hoops you have to jump through and obstacles you have to jump over to get what you want... Exactly, this is the Mind Set of today's man, this is our mindset. This Man – you and I – is too much considered about WHAT SHE WANTS - what she says, what she does, how she talks about him, whether she likes us and so on. We are such nice men, such good child-men, always considered about what she wants, always worry about hurting her feelings. But what if...

We not considering what she wants. It is just stating what the girl and what she thinks of you, and that there are a lot of things in life, that is not within our control.

Speaking for all men, not everyone is bless to have natural good looks, that helps the door with women. But body language, talking to women, handling tough situations, handling messy friends, handling cock blockers, handling dangers of other men, and there's a lot more other things. It does make one retarded if you were to really consider what a man has to be, that hasn't include being a great man later, maintaining her interest, and expansion.

I feel what you telling here. "ALL THIS WOMEN DON'T DESERVE THIS, or DESERVE YOU."

and you are half right. Not all women deserve this, especially if you work your ass off to be a great man sometime soon. But here is where investment from her comes in. Sex, Dinner, Accompany you to watch what she consider "boring" things because she have absolutely no interest.

and the other part where you wrong, is that there are women who work themselves to be as great as you are. and they are having this dilemma of what you feeling. Trying to find a quality mate. Someone who is deserving.

Drck said:
We are the biggest fucking predators This World has ever seen! Fucking our women is prize that we deserve!

Yea definitely, We are the biggest fucking predators. We just can't fuck every women, and have the mindset that we own the world, although sometimes it feels like it. You have to consider women's experience of stalkers, ex boyfriends, family influence and friends too!

We deserve great women.

Drck said:
Simple as that, there is nothing else to it, none of the above hoops applies. There are no hoops, fuck all the hoops. There are no strategies, just strong desire to fuck. She will either stay around and be eventually fucked, or she needs to leave (assuming that there is strong attraction to her). There is no middle ground, no fucking friendship, no negotiations, no compromises, no hurt feelings. There is no need to be an asshole, this man can still be Nice and polite Guy – the only difference is that he always pushes to get his price...

If you actually read a lot of Chase articles, it has always been revolve around being in between the nice and polite guy while also pushing for what he wants.

I am just writing my thoughts, it's random. :)

Zac
 

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
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this thread is good food for thought.

although i believe chase's argument is sound, the OP has nevertheless written something quite inspiring. i've read it several times and it's a good reminder of the mindset one should have when interacting with women. reminds me of this (which i have saved on my phone), from misterinfinite.com:

http://misterinfinite.com/2013/02/23/re ... -to-woman/


anyway, seems to me that the OP is advocating going direct to point C without bothering with B. But one assumes that he made (or is making) the journey from A to B to C himself, and that is why he can now look back and see things in a different light.

great quote, by the way-


"Nobody slides out of his mother's womb with a stubble, a steely-eyed squint, a pair of shades, and a hard-on."
 

Whizzy

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That is definitely an interesting blog lao che. I wonder what Chase or Franco thinks about it?
 
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