- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 6,617
Hey fellas,
I just had a conversation with Franco and some of the more senior members about some of the zanier stuff we're seeing on the boards right now. So I want to quash these three (3) things:
Details:
#1: I NEED HELP BUT WON'T FOLLOW IT
You need help, but you're 'too busy' to follow the advice. You just can't be messed with to follow it. Or you're certain the advice you'll get won't work. If this is the case:
This issue is a symptom of 'magic pill' thinking. What the guy doing this is looking for is some kind of sudden epiphany where he immediately goes from "I suck with girls" to "I walk outside and girls run up to me and drag me to their apartments."
So he makes endless posts, PMs senior members endlessly, yet ultimately dismisses all the answers he gets, because none give him that sudden epiphany. No matter how much great advice he gets, girls still aren't throwing themselves at him the moment he sets foot outside.
Thus, his quixotic quest continues. All he can do is make more forum posts, PM more senior members, and mull over ever more advice with, "Hmm, yeah, but that won't work for me. It's fine, I'll ask someone else."
Take any senior member on this board and give him just about any piece of advice - no matter how hard or how ridiculous - and there is a pretty good chance he can make it work. Advice that is polar opposite to his usual style. Hector can make Franco's advice work or Richard's advice work. Richard can make Alek's advice work or Seppuku's advice work. Franco can make RDawg's advice work or PrettyDecent's advice work.
If you can't make advice from senior members work, it's not because the advice of ALL the guys who are better with girls than you are sucks.
It's because you suck with girls.
No magic epiphany is going to come along to change that.
So, until you are willing to DO THE WORK, if you're one of these guys who continually asks for, then dismisses, advice, over and over again, like the ouroboros snake eating its own tail... just stop.
Go outside.
Talk to girls.
Keep talking to girls until the epiphanies start to hit.
THEN come back and ask for more help. I guarantee you will see any help you get in a considerably different way.
And IF you are going to ask for advice, here's the procedure:
If you can't pay this courtesy to the people you trouble for advice, then stick to lurking. Come back on when you're ready to implement.
#2: THE WORLD IS CRUEL & COGNITIVE DISSONANCE
I have plenty of sympathy for any guy going through an awakening to the nature of things.
It sucks; what you're taught in school, in church, often by family and friends is patently false.
These people don't teach you false things maliciously. Instead, they are doing what safe, wealthy societies allow people to do, and that is to live in a fantasty land and attempt to will utopia into being.
The side effect is that others are inculcated in these utopian fantasies, build their mental models around them, then trip and stumble through life, flummoxed at why they keep falling over and why the world never works the way it's supposed to, until they pull the veil off and realize everything they relied on to build those mental models they use to navigate the world is deeply flawed.
So, then you start building new models that more accurately represent the state of things. You're better able to get what you want, and you quit stumbling so much.
But once the scales fall off your eyes, you start to resent all the mind control that's all around you. The hivemind pushing utter nonsense on everyone to direct and control their thoughts. And you especially resent it when some zombie who's still plugged into the matrix shambles over and attempts to do it to you.
This is unfortunate. Every senior guy (who wasn't a natural; i.e., didn't have 'accurate' beliefs preloaded into him by his earlier experiences) here has gone through it, many of the intermediate guys are going through it, and beginners either have gone, are going, or will go through it.
However, this place should not be used as an emotional outlet for you to vent about how jarring everything you encounter on a day-to-day basis is.
We understand and commiserate. It's downright irritating when you're flooded with garbage beliefs day-in and day-out and you want an escape.
But bear this in mind: if you come on here and dump all your bad feelings and you vent onto these boards, you will slowly strangle the life out of the boards, as they become an increasingly frustarted place, filled with sorrow, lamentations, bitterness, and despair.
We can't let members going throught the cognitive dissonance stage ruin this place because they're unable to control their emotions.
Again, we commiserate. But you must not use the boards as your personal diary to vent your frustrations or dissonance if you intend to continue to post here.
I refer guys guilty of either or both of #1 and #2 in this post to my guide to etiquette on the boards:
Board Etiquette
#3: GC IS FOR BEGINNERS, [FILL IN THE BLANK] PLACE IS FOR PROS
Here's the final one I'll tackle here.
We get guys who come on here and do this whole, "Girls Chase is for beginners. All the real pros are at [WHEREVER]," thing. The two most popular ones we see are RSD and ROK. But GLL makes appearances sometimes too.
First off, if you do this, you're the asshole who walks into a nice restaurant and, in a very loud voice, continually harps on about, "THIS PLACE IS OKAY. THE FOOD HERE IS OKAY. BUT THE BEST FOOD IS OVER AT MIRA BELLA'S RESTAURANT. I MEAN, I LIKED THE FOOD HERE WHEN I WASN'T TOO FAMILIAR WITH ITALIAN. BUT NOW THAT I KNOW ITALIAN, I REALIZE MIRA BELLA'S IS THE BEST."
It doesn't fool anybody in the establishment, because it's pure transparent status jockeying as you attempt to position yourself above the guys who are there. All it is is a way to say, "I am higher status than all the rubes here who still patronize this place, hardee har har." It makes the loud-mouthed guy look like a socially retarded prick.
It's fine to say "I learned a lot from GC, but what really supercharged me was XYZ other place." That's cool. Continual status jockeying of, "Hey all you GC folks, this is for beginners. The cool guys are all over at ABC. That's where I hang out, when I'm not over here interacting with the plebs," however, is lamer than a three-footed mule.
However, let me address a few things:
RSD / ROUTINE GAME
RSD uses a routine-based methodology. There are some guys this works REALLY well for, and if you see a guy singing RSD praises to high heaven, odds are he's someone who really enjoys having a routine stack to run.
However, RSD also functions as a cult. A lot of the design I've put into building the culture of Girls Chase has been deliberately modeled against becoming a company like RSD (or some of the other PUA companies that run cult-like communities; and there are others), because a.) I have no personal need or desire to be the figurehead of a cult of personality, b.) I don't want any of our coaches becoming figureheads of cults of personality, at least not while they're here, and c.) I don't want all the disaffected washed out students, members, and coaches such places tend to generate (and RSD generates more disaffected guys than anywhere else I've seen in dating).
As such, many of the guys who go around proselytizing RSD (not all, but many) are guys who've been sucked into the cult. If any of you have hung out with local PUAs in your towns, you've probably seen more RSD guys than anything else. Why? Because RSD whips its members up into cult-like fervor and sends them out to convert more to the cause.
We could get a lot more word-of-mouth marketing if I copied that model here. But I have zero interest in running an indoctrination camp. The psychology of indoctrination and inculcation is fascinating, but a cult leader I care not to be.
ROK / "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" GAME
ROK is a great site (and less toxic than it used to be). It is NOT a dedicated game site. Some of its game writers use a lot of GC terms, and tend to publish a fair few articles that mirror ours soon after we put new articles out, which tells me they probably read here and study here. Game articles there, while entertaining, tend to be less detailed and less actionable. The focus is usually on a few key high level concepts, quite often concepts we've harped here over and over for years.
Many of the commentors on ROK are anti-game; they view seduction as something men should not 'bother' doing or 'have' to do. Others (including some of the writers) have a black-and-white "She'll do things my way or she's gone" approach to dating. This is often seductive to intermediate guys, who see this and think, "Wow, he must be swimming in so much pussy that he can just be a complete rigid asshole, and girls will just BEND to him!" but it's a red flag to guys who are good. That's because any guy who's seriously good with girls - from Ovid, to Casanova, to any 100-count or higher natural or pick up artist - 1.) doesn't resent women being women, because he's been around enough of them and been INSIDE enough of them that he knows how girls work, and it's just girls being girls, and 2.) knows how to get what he wants with women, and knows that being the rigid stick is the antithesis of succeeding with women. Especially to succeeding with DESIRABLE women.
Rigidity is not advanced game, any more than the guy who says, "I only ever take one shot on the basketball court, but I'm pretty good at that one shot," is the next Michael Jordan. Advanced game is fluid, NOT rigid. There are too many situations where rigidity does not work, though it's certainly an easy cop-out for guys who want to tell themselves they're 'above it all' without doing the work to actually reach those heights.
(that said, it's fine to be rigid if you want to be rigid... just don't be silly enough to go around and consider yourself a master of game because you're so good at rejecting girls. Anyone can go be rigid and reject girls. I can walk outside, open 100 girls today, and reject them all for not meeting my standards too. My dick will still be as dry at the end of it as it was at the beginning of it, though)
You do not make women bend to you by being black-and-white. It's un-sexy to all but the craziest chicks, and shows a distinct lack of seductive savvy. You make women bend to you by seducing them to bend to you.
THAT SAID...
I don't want anyone to mistake this as me saying, "Don't go to RSD," or, "Don't go to ROK." If you like routines, you're going to dig RSD, possibly more than you dig GC. And I know plenty of guys who like GC for the tech, and RSD for the motivation. Or they prefer RSD mindsets over GC mindsets. It's your education, and you should use whatever works best for you.
Likewise, ROK is a great site that covers a range of topics we don't (like working out, eating right, travel, women in various countries, men's legal issues in the West, cultural commentary, etc.) from a 'red pilled' perspective, which makes it extremely valuable. I like ROK and I like Roosh (and we'll run a series of sponsored posts on there soon as well - so you'll be able to get a little GC content on ROK too). It's a site that's certainly worth visiting.
But come on. Don't do the autistic thing where you're going to come onto a website and parade around talking about how this place, "Yeah, it's okay. It's all right. But you know what's REALLY good is XYZ other place." It's fine to do once or twice, but if it's a running thing with you where you have to insert it into every post, you just turn into that annoying loud guy at the restaurant, deadset on showing everyone how cool he is, yet completely oblivious to how trite the entire thing ends up looking.
(and also, seriously - is anyone on RSD or ROK teaching you sex talk, deep diving, unshakeable frame control, rapid escalation, long-term relationship management, deep female psychology, and hardcore social dynamics? Let's be real now! You know this site is the bleeding edge of dating, seduction, and social psychology. Date coaches at many of the big companies study this site extensively. At least right now, as of 2017, Girls Chase is where you go for both the simplest advice for beginners, and the most advanced, masterful tech for advanced guys. It's going to stay that way for a long, long time, too. We're good at what we do - and we are the BEST at it. In your heart of hearts, you know it, and it's why you keep coming back here)
----
All right. That's it. Now go talk to girls, get dates, get laid, and get relationships.
Chase
I just had a conversation with Franco and some of the more senior members about some of the zanier stuff we're seeing on the boards right now. So I want to quash these three (3) things:
- 1. You need a lot of help, but don't follow any advice
2. You're passing through the red pill cognitive dissonance stage and need to vent
3. You think GC is 'for beginners' and RSD or ROK is where the advanced guys roll
Details:
#1: I NEED HELP BUT WON'T FOLLOW IT
You need help, but you're 'too busy' to follow the advice. You just can't be messed with to follow it. Or you're certain the advice you'll get won't work. If this is the case:
- Stop asking for help
- Stop PM'ing senior members for help
- Stop posting about how unreasonable women are or how hard dating is
This issue is a symptom of 'magic pill' thinking. What the guy doing this is looking for is some kind of sudden epiphany where he immediately goes from "I suck with girls" to "I walk outside and girls run up to me and drag me to their apartments."
So he makes endless posts, PMs senior members endlessly, yet ultimately dismisses all the answers he gets, because none give him that sudden epiphany. No matter how much great advice he gets, girls still aren't throwing themselves at him the moment he sets foot outside.
Thus, his quixotic quest continues. All he can do is make more forum posts, PM more senior members, and mull over ever more advice with, "Hmm, yeah, but that won't work for me. It's fine, I'll ask someone else."
Take any senior member on this board and give him just about any piece of advice - no matter how hard or how ridiculous - and there is a pretty good chance he can make it work. Advice that is polar opposite to his usual style. Hector can make Franco's advice work or Richard's advice work. Richard can make Alek's advice work or Seppuku's advice work. Franco can make RDawg's advice work or PrettyDecent's advice work.
If you can't make advice from senior members work, it's not because the advice of ALL the guys who are better with girls than you are sucks.
It's because you suck with girls.
No magic epiphany is going to come along to change that.
So, until you are willing to DO THE WORK, if you're one of these guys who continually asks for, then dismisses, advice, over and over again, like the ouroboros snake eating its own tail... just stop.
Go outside.
Talk to girls.
Keep talking to girls until the epiphanies start to hit.
THEN come back and ask for more help. I guarantee you will see any help you get in a considerably different way.
And IF you are going to ask for advice, here's the procedure:
- 1. Ask for advice
2. Thank advice givers for their advice
3. Go out and try the advice you received
4. Report back and let the forum (or member, if in a PM) know how your trial of the advice went
If you can't pay this courtesy to the people you trouble for advice, then stick to lurking. Come back on when you're ready to implement.
#2: THE WORLD IS CRUEL & COGNITIVE DISSONANCE
I have plenty of sympathy for any guy going through an awakening to the nature of things.
It sucks; what you're taught in school, in church, often by family and friends is patently false.
These people don't teach you false things maliciously. Instead, they are doing what safe, wealthy societies allow people to do, and that is to live in a fantasty land and attempt to will utopia into being.
The side effect is that others are inculcated in these utopian fantasies, build their mental models around them, then trip and stumble through life, flummoxed at why they keep falling over and why the world never works the way it's supposed to, until they pull the veil off and realize everything they relied on to build those mental models they use to navigate the world is deeply flawed.
So, then you start building new models that more accurately represent the state of things. You're better able to get what you want, and you quit stumbling so much.
But once the scales fall off your eyes, you start to resent all the mind control that's all around you. The hivemind pushing utter nonsense on everyone to direct and control their thoughts. And you especially resent it when some zombie who's still plugged into the matrix shambles over and attempts to do it to you.
This is unfortunate. Every senior guy (who wasn't a natural; i.e., didn't have 'accurate' beliefs preloaded into him by his earlier experiences) here has gone through it, many of the intermediate guys are going through it, and beginners either have gone, are going, or will go through it.
However, this place should not be used as an emotional outlet for you to vent about how jarring everything you encounter on a day-to-day basis is.
We understand and commiserate. It's downright irritating when you're flooded with garbage beliefs day-in and day-out and you want an escape.
But bear this in mind: if you come on here and dump all your bad feelings and you vent onto these boards, you will slowly strangle the life out of the boards, as they become an increasingly frustarted place, filled with sorrow, lamentations, bitterness, and despair.
We can't let members going throught the cognitive dissonance stage ruin this place because they're unable to control their emotions.
Again, we commiserate. But you must not use the boards as your personal diary to vent your frustrations or dissonance if you intend to continue to post here.
I refer guys guilty of either or both of #1 and #2 in this post to my guide to etiquette on the boards:
Board Etiquette
#3: GC IS FOR BEGINNERS, [FILL IN THE BLANK] PLACE IS FOR PROS
Here's the final one I'll tackle here.
We get guys who come on here and do this whole, "Girls Chase is for beginners. All the real pros are at [WHEREVER]," thing. The two most popular ones we see are RSD and ROK. But GLL makes appearances sometimes too.
First off, if you do this, you're the asshole who walks into a nice restaurant and, in a very loud voice, continually harps on about, "THIS PLACE IS OKAY. THE FOOD HERE IS OKAY. BUT THE BEST FOOD IS OVER AT MIRA BELLA'S RESTAURANT. I MEAN, I LIKED THE FOOD HERE WHEN I WASN'T TOO FAMILIAR WITH ITALIAN. BUT NOW THAT I KNOW ITALIAN, I REALIZE MIRA BELLA'S IS THE BEST."
It doesn't fool anybody in the establishment, because it's pure transparent status jockeying as you attempt to position yourself above the guys who are there. All it is is a way to say, "I am higher status than all the rubes here who still patronize this place, hardee har har." It makes the loud-mouthed guy look like a socially retarded prick.
It's fine to say "I learned a lot from GC, but what really supercharged me was XYZ other place." That's cool. Continual status jockeying of, "Hey all you GC folks, this is for beginners. The cool guys are all over at ABC. That's where I hang out, when I'm not over here interacting with the plebs," however, is lamer than a three-footed mule.
However, let me address a few things:
RSD / ROUTINE GAME
RSD uses a routine-based methodology. There are some guys this works REALLY well for, and if you see a guy singing RSD praises to high heaven, odds are he's someone who really enjoys having a routine stack to run.
However, RSD also functions as a cult. A lot of the design I've put into building the culture of Girls Chase has been deliberately modeled against becoming a company like RSD (or some of the other PUA companies that run cult-like communities; and there are others), because a.) I have no personal need or desire to be the figurehead of a cult of personality, b.) I don't want any of our coaches becoming figureheads of cults of personality, at least not while they're here, and c.) I don't want all the disaffected washed out students, members, and coaches such places tend to generate (and RSD generates more disaffected guys than anywhere else I've seen in dating).
As such, many of the guys who go around proselytizing RSD (not all, but many) are guys who've been sucked into the cult. If any of you have hung out with local PUAs in your towns, you've probably seen more RSD guys than anything else. Why? Because RSD whips its members up into cult-like fervor and sends them out to convert more to the cause.
We could get a lot more word-of-mouth marketing if I copied that model here. But I have zero interest in running an indoctrination camp. The psychology of indoctrination and inculcation is fascinating, but a cult leader I care not to be.
ROK / "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" GAME
ROK is a great site (and less toxic than it used to be). It is NOT a dedicated game site. Some of its game writers use a lot of GC terms, and tend to publish a fair few articles that mirror ours soon after we put new articles out, which tells me they probably read here and study here. Game articles there, while entertaining, tend to be less detailed and less actionable. The focus is usually on a few key high level concepts, quite often concepts we've harped here over and over for years.
Many of the commentors on ROK are anti-game; they view seduction as something men should not 'bother' doing or 'have' to do. Others (including some of the writers) have a black-and-white "She'll do things my way or she's gone" approach to dating. This is often seductive to intermediate guys, who see this and think, "Wow, he must be swimming in so much pussy that he can just be a complete rigid asshole, and girls will just BEND to him!" but it's a red flag to guys who are good. That's because any guy who's seriously good with girls - from Ovid, to Casanova, to any 100-count or higher natural or pick up artist - 1.) doesn't resent women being women, because he's been around enough of them and been INSIDE enough of them that he knows how girls work, and it's just girls being girls, and 2.) knows how to get what he wants with women, and knows that being the rigid stick is the antithesis of succeeding with women. Especially to succeeding with DESIRABLE women.
Rigidity is not advanced game, any more than the guy who says, "I only ever take one shot on the basketball court, but I'm pretty good at that one shot," is the next Michael Jordan. Advanced game is fluid, NOT rigid. There are too many situations where rigidity does not work, though it's certainly an easy cop-out for guys who want to tell themselves they're 'above it all' without doing the work to actually reach those heights.
(that said, it's fine to be rigid if you want to be rigid... just don't be silly enough to go around and consider yourself a master of game because you're so good at rejecting girls. Anyone can go be rigid and reject girls. I can walk outside, open 100 girls today, and reject them all for not meeting my standards too. My dick will still be as dry at the end of it as it was at the beginning of it, though)
You do not make women bend to you by being black-and-white. It's un-sexy to all but the craziest chicks, and shows a distinct lack of seductive savvy. You make women bend to you by seducing them to bend to you.
THAT SAID...
I don't want anyone to mistake this as me saying, "Don't go to RSD," or, "Don't go to ROK." If you like routines, you're going to dig RSD, possibly more than you dig GC. And I know plenty of guys who like GC for the tech, and RSD for the motivation. Or they prefer RSD mindsets over GC mindsets. It's your education, and you should use whatever works best for you.
Likewise, ROK is a great site that covers a range of topics we don't (like working out, eating right, travel, women in various countries, men's legal issues in the West, cultural commentary, etc.) from a 'red pilled' perspective, which makes it extremely valuable. I like ROK and I like Roosh (and we'll run a series of sponsored posts on there soon as well - so you'll be able to get a little GC content on ROK too). It's a site that's certainly worth visiting.
But come on. Don't do the autistic thing where you're going to come onto a website and parade around talking about how this place, "Yeah, it's okay. It's all right. But you know what's REALLY good is XYZ other place." It's fine to do once or twice, but if it's a running thing with you where you have to insert it into every post, you just turn into that annoying loud guy at the restaurant, deadset on showing everyone how cool he is, yet completely oblivious to how trite the entire thing ends up looking.
(and also, seriously - is anyone on RSD or ROK teaching you sex talk, deep diving, unshakeable frame control, rapid escalation, long-term relationship management, deep female psychology, and hardcore social dynamics? Let's be real now! You know this site is the bleeding edge of dating, seduction, and social psychology. Date coaches at many of the big companies study this site extensively. At least right now, as of 2017, Girls Chase is where you go for both the simplest advice for beginners, and the most advanced, masterful tech for advanced guys. It's going to stay that way for a long, long time, too. We're good at what we do - and we are the BEST at it. In your heart of hearts, you know it, and it's why you keep coming back here)
----
All right. That's it. Now go talk to girls, get dates, get laid, and get relationships.
Chase
