Being an authority figure for other men

[Oskar]

Hey guys,

Got a question about my relationships with other men.

I have something of a reputation as a lady killer in my community, and have guys who want to be my friends hitting me up regularly (they are pick-up type guys). However, I suspect they only want to be my friends because they want to raise their status and then be able to dismiss me as just another fallible human being.

They are friendly, but secretly they are jealous. I rarely hang out with them because of this, but when I do they seem to be just waiting for me to make a mistake so they can throw me under the bus. It's like they are holding me to superhuman standards, which is quite uncomfortable -- this is exactly what the radiation of an insecure person who is pretending not to be insecure feels like.

Yet I sympathize with them, and they are still actually quite aware go-getters, which I like, but the way they constantly are throwing their egos around and trying to manipulate me into spending more time with them and giving them more than I want to give is unpleasant, and I always have to be on my guard. They want to impress me with their profundity and skill with women, but they also want to transcend the image they have of me so they can further hypnotize themselves into thinking they've made empirical progress.

Have you guys ever met people like this? How do you manage that type of relationship? The obvious answer is to cut them off or when you hang out with them be more restrained and give them the authority figure they want -- but let's say you didn't want to do that for some reason, like they always have good parties or one of them is your boss's son or they're much older than you and you feel you have something to learn from this situation.

Maybe I should just get used to being an authority figure, even for the people who claim that that's not what they're looking for; the people who hoot and holler all about being manly and free, even if they're older and probably have more life experience than me?

I've got mixed feelings on being an authority figure. I feel like an authority figure should be more rigorous and cautious than I tend to be. My style of self is currently more spontaneous, adventurous, whimsical, and open than I think suits such a persona. I don't want to trick people, but I also don't want to disappoint them.

 

[Drck]

What makes you think they are looking for authority figure?

 

[Oskar]

What makes you think they are looking for authority figure?

I don't think they consciously are -- I think it's simply what most people do: they look for someone to follow to give them a sense of security. A belief system to ascribe to, a group to belong to, a place in a hierarchy so they can feel like they know who they are and that they are moving up in the world. Few people prefer being real outcasts, after all.

I could get into the psychology of it, but I suspect you may already be familiar with that. Perhaps I'm looking at it from the wrong angle though. It's only because I'm not used to this sort of social role, I think, that I posited this question to begin with. I should just not worry about. That's probably best.

 

[Drck]

Who knows... IMO the weaker ones are looking for authority figure, but stronger and more independent guys don't care. All probably want to learn the skills you have (duh), some may remain your good friends, others may throw you under the bus...

It's difficult to be authority figure though, especially if you are not natural... people usually have high expectations from authority figure, and if you don't meet their expectations that's when they throw you under the bus... But you know that... You should IMO live up to your expectations, not theirs...

Interesting topic though

 

[Chase]

Oskar-

Yet I sympathize with them, and they are still actually quite aware go-getters, which I like, but the way they constantly are throwing their egos around and trying to manipulate me into spending more time with them and giving them more than I want to give is unpleasant, and I always have to be on my guard. They want to impress me with their profundity and skill with women, but they also want to transcend the image they have of me so they can further hypnotize themselves into thinking they've made empirical progress.

This is just hierarchical mentalities mixed with low-ish social aptitude. You do unfortunately see it a lot in pickup circles and even in party guy circles where each guy is fighting for higher status within the party group. I talked about some of the dynamics at play here:

Archive: Ultimate Social Calibration: Stop Climbing the Social Ladder

... and here:

Why the Status of Women You Sleep with Matters in Social Circle

I couldn't spend too much time with pickup "lairs" when I was learning seduction because these guys were mostly all like that. I just wanted to get good with girls, but these guys would spend a lot of time arguing with each other over pickup strategies and roll out into bars 20-guys deep and just burn the place out approaching the same girls with the same lines. I learned what venues these guys liked going to and just steered clear of those places so 1.) we wouldn't cross paths, and 2.) I wouldn't be approaching women who'd already been approached 7 or 8 times each from guys acting a little too tryhard and raising their walls up sky high.

Anyway, yeah, whether inside pickup or just guys looking to get laid in general, this kind of behavior is pretty common. It's better if you can find friends who are already really talented with women and hang with these guys instead, as they will tend to just be chill.

Most people are not good at being around someone who is more successful than them at anything, because rather than take the student approach, they take the approach of the critic and/or the competitor.

Have you guys ever met people like this? How do you manage that type of relationship? The obvious answer is to cut them off or when you hang out with them be more restrained and give them the authority figure they want -- but let's say you didn't want to do that for some reason, like they always have good parties or one of them is your boss's son or they're much older than you and you feel you have something to learn from this situation.

I won't deal with people like this, personally. If I have to, I'll usually just tell them up front that I'm not going to do whatever they want me to do. If they try to put pressure on me, I just tell them I suck and they're probably better than me anyway.

Maybe I should just get used to being an authority figure, even for the people who claim that that's not what they're looking for; the people who hoot and holler all about being manly and free, even if they're older and probably have more life experience than me?

Only if you want to be a slave who does what they want him to do and is there as a rung for them to climb over once he's outlived his usefulness (unless being an authority to these people provides real value to your life; the way I read your post, it sounds more like it'd be boxing you in).

I've got mixed feelings on being an authority figure. I feel like an authority figure should be more rigorous and cautious than I tend to be. My style of self is currently more spontaneous, adventurous, whimsical, and open than I think suits such a persona. I don't want to trick people, but I also don't want to disappoint them.

Authority figures are stolid and reserved; steady. The guy who's changeable and whimsical is not a good authority figure, and will not be able to command respect. Even if people know he is their superior, they don't trust him, because people look for authority figures to serve as rocks or pillars, and that means they must be reliable. A man who changes too much is frightening as an authority; his power is unstable, and people seek to unseat him to eliminate his untrustworthiness.

If you're using the spontaneous/whimsical approach, you're better off in a lone wolf role. If you want to assume an authority position, you must adopt more of a steady, stolid appearance for the people who view you like this.

Personally, whenever I've had to be a manager, or am dating a girl, or leading a social circle, or whatnot, I adjust my personality to be much more steady, calm, and reserved. Still with a sense of humor and all, but steadiness goes way up and spontaneity way down. Whereas when I am traveling solo or picking up girls or on most dates, I will often go for much more of a spontaneous/playful/lighthearted disposition.

Actually, if you know myself or the other writers on this site in-person, we're all substantially more lighthearted and playful in-person (especially with girls) than what you'd figure from forum posts or articles, where we're having to fulfill a teacher role and need to give guys who are reading more of a sense of stability and steadiness for them to be comfortable learning from us. If you start teasing and playing with people who are reading your articles guys get all funny, because they don't want that from a "leader". Girls enjoy this in a pickup if you're going for the lover approach, however, since this is more about being an unpredictable force of nature who sweeps into her life and provides pleasure and experience, then departs, and not so much about being a leader around whom she can attach her life. That comes later (if you're doing long-term relationships), in which you transition somewhat from unstable and unpredictable to more stable and more predictable provided you're keeping her around longer than a few months.

Chase

 

[Thedoctor]

Actually, if you know myself or the other writers on this site in-person, we're all substantially more lighthearted and playful in-person (especially with girls) than what you'd figure from forum posts or articles, where we're having to fulfill a teacher role and need to give guys who are reading more of a sense of stability and steadiness for them to be comfortable learning from us. If you start teasing and playing with people who are reading your articles guys get all funny, because they don't want that from a "leader". Girls enjoy this in a pickup if you're going for the lover approach, however, since this is more about being an unpredictable force of nature who sweeps into her life and provides pleasure and experience, then departs, and not so much about being a leader around whom she can attach her life. That comes later (if you're doing long-term relationships), in which you transition somewhat from unstable and unpredictable to more stable and more predictable provided you're keeping her around longer than a few months.

I think expanding on this idea a bit would make for a good article on the main site.
-John

 

[Oskar]

Maybe I should just get used to being an authority figure, even for the people who claim that that's not what they're looking for; the people who hoot and holler all about being manly and free, even if they're older and probably have more life experience than me?

Only if you want to be a slave who does what they want him to do and is there as a rung for them to climb over once he's outlived his usefulness (unless being an authority to these people provides real value to your life; the way I read your post, it sounds more like it'd be boxing you in).

Lol, very true. The main value from my particular situation would be, as you put later on in your reply, teaching myself to be more stolid, reserved, and steady (I'll learn that from better sources though).

I've got mixed feelings on being an authority figure. I feel like an authority figure should be more rigorous and cautious than I tend to be. My style of self is currently more spontaneous, adventurous, whimsical, and open than I think suits such a persona. I don't want to trick people, but I also don't want to disappoint them.

Authority figures are stolid and reserved; steady. The guy who's changeable and whimsical is not a good authority figure, and will not be able to command respect. Even if people know he is their superior, they don't trust him, because people look for authority figures to serve as rocks or pillars, and that means they must be reliable. A man who changes too much is frightening as an authority; his power is unstable, and people seek to unseat him to eliminate his untrustworthiness.

If you're using the spontaneous/whimsical approach, you're better off in a lone wolf role. If you want to assume an authority position, you must adopt more of a steady, stolid appearance for the people who view you like this.

Personally, whenever I've had to be a manager, or am dating a girl, or leading a social circle, or whatnot, I adjust my personality to be much more steady, calm, and reserved. Still with a sense of humor and all, but steadiness goes way up and spontaneity way down. Whereas when I am traveling solo or picking up girls or on most dates, I will often go for much more of a spontaneous/playful/lighthearted disposition.

This last section addressed something pretty fundamental that I don't often take into account in my relationships, and I'm glad you point it out.

I'm good at being the spontaneous lover authority figure, but when I'm around people over a period of time, I'll say or do something that doesn't quite fit with the image they have of me, and this makes me appear, as you say, less trustworthy.

How much it actually has to do with trustworthiness is debatable, but it's appearances that take precedence in the social game, so I do need to tend to this better. More practice in managerial roles, long term relationships, and maybe seeing if I can form my own social groups might be good place to start experimenting here.

Actually, if you know myself or the other writers on this site in-person, we're all substantially more lighthearted and playful in-person (especially with girls) than what you'd figure from forum posts or articles, where we're having to fulfill a teacher role and need to give guys who are reading more of a sense of stability and steadiness for them to be comfortable learning from us. If you start teasing and playing with people who are reading your articles guys get all funny, because they don't want that from a "leader". Girls enjoy this in a pickup if you're going for the lover approach, however, since this is more about being an unpredictable force of nature who sweeps into her life and provides pleasure and experience, then departs, and not so much about being a leader around whom she can attach her life. That comes later (if you're doing long-term relationships), in which you transition somewhat from unstable and unpredictable to more stable and more predictable provided you're keeping her around longer than a few months.

Chase

Leadership is a funny thing. Most everyone says they want it in some vague form or another, but most of us forget that, though there are some perks to being an authority/leader, there also are some considerable downsides. One of those being that when you take on a stable, authoritative role, you are also taking on the responsibility to consistently provide the quality of service/relationship you've been providing. Not only quality, but also "type". It's that whole relationships are like clay pots metaphor, but taking it to a deeper, more committed level.

Like with a doctor. He has to be stable and cool, or else people worry that he'd be careless and botch their surgery.This will probably make him a less profitable doctor, as it'll give him a worse reputation among most folk.

Another great example is right before us, actually.Just look on the main site. People got used to seeing two or three articles from you a week, and now they are having withdrawal symptoms (as often can be seen expressed in the comments section).

Maybe it was good timing to fade off the front line... you know... before you attracted an unmanageably large battery of devotees.

But maybe not. Who am I to say?

Thanks for your comments,
Oskar