Black seducers in the USA. How to present yourself optimally?

[barneystin]

I moved to the USA a couple years ago from majority black country so i'm not used to "being black". Recently i've been wondering how much other people's (women) perceptions of me affects my dating life. So far, I've mostly dated interracially(I've only been with 2 black girls and 15+ girls in total). I've been working on my fundamentals for a while and I've been told I'm hot semi-regularly recently and I definitely see women catching glances at me when I go out. But whenever I get into conversation with most of these girls, the interaction feels like it's missing something - the willingness for them to comply. I can usually get into conversations with the girls laughing and us trading stories but whenever I number close/try to isolate/need something that requires investment from their part, there's usually always friction - she has to stay with her friends, she doesn't text back or doesn't care enough to put in the effort to invest (while still participating in conversation).

I've also studied white guys' game in person and it doesn't seem like they're doing anything special but it seems like they're getting better results in terms of investment from girls. I was out last night playing pool with this attractive white guy and after he says "we should go talk to some girls after this. I'm sure some of them would be into black guys". He didn't say this in a condescending way but in a matter-of-fact manner. That kinda threw me off, the bar was majority white so i kinda get it but as a black guy, am I really starting behind the 8 ball when it comes to dating?

I suspect it might be a social frame issue - i do tend to dress sorta polarizing. I've been told i'm pretty muscular and I wear clothes that accentuate this physique - does that make me somewhat intimidating? My style is also very much street wear which I think might make me unrelatable to the girls I want.
I've also felt like I always have little room for mistakes with girls - my game has to be near perfect because I don't get second chances. Do girls expect me to be more dominant?

Just trying to figure out what expectations/stereotypes people might have about me and how to work around/use them to advantage in-field

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

TLR

• You don't understand the social context - so you don't understand what you need for buy-in
• Your one-on-one and group game needs work

But whenever I get into conversation with most of these girls, the interaction feels like it's missing something - the willingness for them to comply.

She needs buy in, but if a chick is not-black and you're in a non-black situation - she can't really comply with you in front of all of those other people.

Not to get too heavy - but there's a lot of social pressure to not intermingle. This consensual hook up became non-consensual because after the fact the girl was getting grief from her social circle.

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I can usually get into conversations with the girls laughing and us trading stories but whenever I number close/try to isolate/need something that requires investment from their part, there's usually always friction

There's not enough buy in to overcome the social situation, like I said above

she has to stay with her friends, she doesn't text back or doesn't care enough to put in the effort to invest (while still participating in conversation).

1) Typical for night game to stay with friends, not leave with a random. Various game solutions for this.

2) Doesn't text back - typical female

3) If she's not investing/participating - that's a problem with your game.

I've also studied white guys' game in person and it doesn't seem like they're doing anything special but it seems like they're getting better results in terms of investment from girls.

Value proposition.
Just like a tall guy is gonna get better results than an average height guy

Can't compare yourself to others.

But more importantly, it's important to realize that for every 1 white guy getting success, there are 50 equally white - white guys holding the wall.

When you see a white guy (or any other guy) doing well - it's because he is attractive or has game or both.

I was out last night playing pool with this attractive white guy and after he says "we should go talk to some girls after this. I'm sure some of them would be into black guys". He didn't say this in a condescending way but in a matter-of-fact manner. That kinda threw me off, the bar was majority white so i kinda get it but as a black guy, am I really starting behind the 8 ball when it comes to dating?

Without game - If you're in an all white environment talking to mostly white girls, with a white homie - YES.

Without game - If you was there with a black/non-white homie and not a white homie - you'd be on a level playing field

If you have game, the dynamics matter less, but they never NOT matter.

I suspect it might be a social frame issue - i do tend to dress sorta polarizing. I've been told i'm pretty muscular and I wear clothes that accentuate this physique - does that make me somewhat intimidating?

Yes, and you want to intimidate if you can.

A lot of girls want to be a little bit scared, because it's a little bit exciting.

My style is also very much street wear which I think might make me unrelatable to the girls I want.

Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on the venue and depends on the girls.

If you're hip hopped out at the country club - you'll still do better being hip hopped out than trying to look like a blue blood. Because if they wanted a Black guy that dressed like a country club guy - there are PLENTY of those guys trying to fit in,

I've also felt like I always have little room for mistakes with girls - my game has to be near perfect because I don't get second chances. Do girls expect me to be more dominant?

Maybe, but you prolly need to put up some FR's to get some good analysis.

Just trying to figure out what expectations/stereotypes people might have about me and how to work around/use them to advantage in-field

There's a whole lot more to this tbh, but you need to break down what's happening in your sets.

Being tall, black, handsome, built + good visuals for the venue is usually a positive.

 

[TomInHo]

Go to venues where women are looking to meet men that wear streetwear and are more urban

Also be aware these types of venues don't only attract black women. They often attract women of multiple races too

Doing that alone will improve your experience massively

Because can you pick up girls from other venues more catered to white people? Sure

But why not go to a venue where white people go to meet black guys instead? Seems like a better use of time no?

I'm black by the way. Also grew up outside the US even though I live here now. And by simply going to venues where girls went to meet more guys just like me I have hooked up with women of multiple races and cultural backgrounds

No need to play the game on hard mode when you can make it stupid easy with just some small tweaks

PS: If you are well built I also recommend you take some photos showing off your style and body. Then throw them up on an online dating app with a sexualized bio

You will get a good amount of girls that want the BBC experience and also don't be surprised if some married white women ask you to fuck them in front of their white husband

For some reason some white couples are really into that in the US and love using fit black guys as bulls

 

[Atlas IV]

You will get a good amount of girls that want the BBC experience and also don't be surprised if some married white women ask you to fuck them in front of their white husband

For some reason some white couples are really into that in the US and love using fit black guys as bulls

That's just... Wow

Take a scarred history and turn into a fetish. Only in the USA lol

 

[barneystin]

3) If she's not investing/participating - that's a problem with your game.

Yeah getting girls to participate actively in the interaction is one of my newer goals for sure. I think there’s a couple things in my game that I can tweak

When you see a white guy (or any other guy) doing well - it's because he is attractive or has game or both.

I don’t know about this lol. I’ve really observed these interactions and things are *just* easier and she just invests (the guys aren’t usually that attractive too). This might just be selection bias on my part though

Maybe, but you prolly need to put up some FR's to get some good analysis.

Yeah definitely gotta work more on this. I usually have a bunch of sets on any given night and it’s hard to remember conversation/pick out which interaction failed due to game

Without game - If you was there with a black/non-white homie and not a white homie - you'd be on a level playing field

i usually go out solo. How does this change things?

 

[barneystin]

Go to venues where women are looking to meet men that wear streetwear and are more urban

Yeahh I saw a post/comment of yours about this and i’ve been working on it. Main problem is i’m a huge fan of dive bars which might not necessarily cater to that crowd

 

[James D]

You will get a good amount of girls that want the BBC experience and also don't be surprised if some married white women ask you to fuck them in front of their white husband

For some reason some white couples are really into that in the US and love using fit black guys as bulls

Damn I thought that was only in porn!

 

[KJ Francis]

For some reason some white couples are really into that in the US and love using fit black guys as bulls

Damn I thought that was only in porn!

I have a pretty kinky fuck buddy who was with a guy early and long-term, like age 14 to 24 or something. She said about once a year, he would get a hotel and pick a guy himself to fuck her in front of him. It confused me to no end why someone would do that. She insisted it was something he wanted, not like a gift for her, and that it wasn't some sort of humiliation thing.

Then she told me he would apparently fuck her like his life depended on it immediately afterwards. So my theory is kind of like how preselection will impact a woman, he was trying to trigger feelings of sperm competition and mate guarding in himself to renew his attraction for her in the LTR.

Jealousy's a pretty powerful lizard-brain emotion. I remember Chase writing about the book Sperm Wars. I think it said the head of the penis evolved in that shape in order to scoop out other guy's cum. So I wonder if the black guy thing is taking that competitive feeling to the extreme. Pretty telling that porn is not just "black"... it is "Big Black Cock".

 

[Chase]

For some reason some white couples are really into that in the US and love using fit black guys as bulls

It's a natural end of the "white savior complex" drilled into whites about blacks in white American society.

There's a whole messy psychological relationship there that you can't even really go into without offending both the white and black folks from the States.

Cuckoldry is a weird psychological rabbit hole to go into... mix in the "white couple / black bull" ingredient and it just gets even weirder.

Anyway, to @barneystin's question:

I suspect it might be a social frame issue - i do tend to dress sorta polarizing. I've been told i'm pretty muscular and I wear clothes that accentuate this physique - does that make me somewhat intimidating? My style is also very much street wear which I think might make me unrelatable to the girls I want.
I've also felt like I always have little room for mistakes with girls - my game has to be near perfect because I don't get second chances. Do girls expect me to be more dominant?

I have spent a lot of time around black players in the States; some who are good with all kinds of girls and some who are only good with black girls.

The ones who are only good with black girls are "stereotypically black": street wear, very direct come-ons ("Damn, you fine!"), the "persistent begging" thing you really only see black men pull off successfully with black women ("Oh come on, girl, don't walk away. We having fun, right? Why you walking away, you don't like fun?" -> girl turns around and comes back with a big grin on her face and is now hooked back in).

The ones who are good with white/Hispanic/Asian girls do things to offset their blackness so they are basically a mixture of attractive qualities that make them impossible to pin down (and thus, more 'universally sexy').

e.g., I had a player friend, a very dark-skinned black guy, very muscular, though a bit short. He always dressed impeccably, always in a very nice, ironed, spotless button-down shirt and slacks with cologne on, sexy facial hair kept very trim, and he was constantly joking around and telling funny DHV stories to lighten the mood. Didn't do any of the "stereotypical black guy" game (at least not with non-black girls; I don't think I ever once saw him mack on a black girl). The impression he gave you was just of a very cool, very friendly, very high value dude who loved people and went for what he wanted. White girls didn't treat him like he was "black"; he was just a cool, sexy dude.

Just keep in mind that in the States, white = average, Asian = disarming, black = intimidating.

If you are Asian, you have to do things to toughen up your vibe, seem more masculine, edgier, etc. to attract outside your race.

But if you are black, you have to do things to smoothen out your vibe, disarm (non-black) women more, etc., to attract outside your race.

Formal clothes disarm ("Oh, he's not a thug!"). Humor disarms (laughing releases tension). Stories that display higher value disarm ("Oh wow, this guy is a success. He's not from the streets!").

(The alternative, of course, is that you do what @TomInHo recommends, and head to places where white girls who are looking for more stereotypically black dudes congregate. Then you don't really need to change much of anything; you just show up and run your typical game, because they are already looking for that.)

Chase

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

I don’t know about this lol. I’ve really observed these interactions and things are *just* easier and she just invests (the guys aren’t usually that attractive too). This might just be selection bias on my part though

I can't deny your lived experience, but that frame that "white guys have it easy" is one of the most destructive ones that I see among Asian and Indian guys. (Paradoxically, a lot of white guys think that Black guys have it easy, especially with white girls)

I'm obviously Black and been Black all my life. And I'm Blackity Black, fist raised, woke, conscious, all of that and a bag of chips. My handle is West Indian Archie for instance.

Race Matters, a lot

But....

The idea that white guys have it easier with girls in general, simply because they're white - it's not true (if it was true, PUA wouldn't exist), and more importantly that belief is not helping you develop better social skills.

Yeah definitely gotta work more on this. I usually have a bunch of sets on any given night and it’s hard to remember conversation/pick out which interaction failed due to game

You might not ever know why a set didn't work out. It's one of the more frustrating parts of the game.

i usually go out solo. How does this change things?

When you approach solo, their attention (negative, positive, neutral) is undivided. The chicks are looking at your fundamentals and experiencing your game.

Approach with someone else, their attention (neg, pos, neutral) is divided between you and him. So your fundamentals and game, and his fundamentals and game are all in play. 2 additional variables that you can't really control and account for. (in most situations)

If he has any advantages in his "fundamentals", he will get the bulk of the attention even though both of you are there (assuming you don't have good game). Girls are visual creatures after all.

So the short guy, the fat guy, the Asian guy, the Indian guy (or in your case, the African guy) in these situations - have to be more dynamic and interesting to grab the attention of the group.

You've got to ask yourself, what can Danny DeVito do in this situation.

 

[barneystin]

Formal clothes disarm ("Oh, he's not a thug!"). Humor disarms (laughing releases tension). Stories that display higher value disarm ("Oh wow, this guy is a success. He's not from the streets!").

Ah, I see, fuck my life. I like grabbing attention with my clothes and formal clothes do the opposite of that for me. I’m also not much of a trying-to-be-funny guy (I definitely can be, I just hate trying to be)
So far, I’ve been using my job and occupation to try to offset since I have a high-value corporate job but that’s not something people can tell at face value I suppose

Will work on that!

 

[barneystin]

Paradoxically, a lot of white guys think that Black guys have it easy, especially with white girls

Loll, I’ve noticed this too. Went to a majority white college and white dudes would tell me “i know all the white girls love you out here” even when i wasn’t pulling shit

You've got to ask yourself, what can Danny DeVito do in this situation.

I see your point. He’d have to be more bubbly, have more presence, funny etc. My issue now is i’m naturally the opposite of that lol. I’m more on the laid-back, chill and calm side - something i’ve noticed that people only usually appreciate once we have a solid relationship. In the pick up stage, it’s more of a hindrance than anything. Will have to figure something out here

 

[barneystin]

My handle is West Indian Archie for instance.

Not gonna lie, this whole time I thought you were white/indian and “west indian archie” actually had some relation to india

 

[Skills]

Your style is fine and everything you wrote happens to everyone, your issue is between your ears... Some girls are just not into black guys no matter what like mrs skills... But black guys looking and dresing like you do very well... Being black is more popular than ever do to gen z and music... read psycho Cybernetics... Op fucks plenty of hot white women... Don't compare yourself to others specially on things you can't control like skin color...

there are girls that would not date white guys no matter what (another ex)

and girls who dont date anything else but black...


^ same with every race, the % is so small to make a difference, and there are plenty of women...