M.
@DArtagnan, thank you so much for this response, which is one of the most useful that I've received here. I also appreciated the warm and kindly tone of your message.
First of all, please excuse myself about questioning your awareness of Girls Chase or other seduction material. It was a bit tongue in cheek yes, but I actually considered it, because I observe that this is the case with some people here, even older ones. Some people never heard of GC before.
Not an issue at all. I'm not sure why the decision was taken to brand the forum and the main site separately, but it happened long after I joined, and in any case it is completely outside my control. I now understand better why you thought I might not have read the materials.
I now realize that you are very well aware of it all, and well-read on the subject, probably much more than I. So I take that out. I understand better where you are coming from now.
Thanks. I've enjoyed the articles, but as will be obvious from this and other Field Reports of mine, where I really have difficulty is putting what I have learned into practice and being able to stand back and analyze my own errors. That's why I appreciate a reply like yours so much, as it gives me a window into my own missteps!
Nevertheless, having said this, I do remain with the impression that you are infringing some important seduction principles, like I've mentioned before
I have absolutely no doubt that you're right. The results (or lack thereof) are visible. This is why I like to report all my actions precisely.
When we talk about acting fast in seduction, afaik, we mean trying to sleep with the girl on the first, maybe second, and as a last resource in the third encounter.
Do you think this is possible? When I read a lot of the reports here, I have the feeling I am being presented with the top .01% of men, in terms of their skill level at charming women. Have you ever heard those news reports (accurate or not) about young women who develop anorexia because they witness so many impossibly beautiful models in the media and think that this is the expected standard for everyone, or about those who develop social media-related depression because their "friends" are curating their feeds and showing themselves in perfect marriages, with perfect children, vacationing in the Maldives and yet somehow still managing to run their own businesses and bake perfect cakes in their perfect kitchens?
Sometimes I wonder how many men
really habitually sleep with a woman on the first (or second or third) encounter versus how many do what I did throughout my life, and have a series of multi-year, maybe slightly overlapping but essentially sequential sexual relationships.
In any event, I refuse to rose-color what I report here, since that would sabotage my ability to get genuine, good advice. I present it unapologetically, with all errors, recognized or unrecognized by myself.
I would suspect that even here, to maximise your chances, you could still try to aim to "sleep with her" at the next encounter, and give everything you have for that.
I would love to do that. You have no idea how much that would make me happy. I have fantasized about it many times.
However, it does seem that she won't let you get further, right? She doesn't kiss you back. So you are doing what you can here, but she is giving you negative feedback. Even though she snuggles with you, walk arm-in-arm with you, it seems like she has a threshold and she won't allow you to go further.
Yes, and I don't know why. Hoping for some insights since, as mentioned above, there are many skilled people here who probably recognize where I am going off-course and can help me to correct it, especially since I have reported everything in detail.
I notice that all the good seducers here are very good at this point. They ask for compliance, which basically is asking her anything, including some kind of escalation from her. That is, sometimes it's better not you to touch her, but to get her to touch you.
That's a very interesting idea, thank you. I once met a woman who
did this by herself, all the time; it's even visible in photos that were taken of us together.
You're right, I should ask her next time.
I will speak of these as a group, because I think they are very inter-related. And I think that this might be the "bottleneck".
I think you may be right about this, as I recognize these slip-ups and laugh at myself when you go into further detail:
When you tell her "I desire you and I'm ready to spend the night and sleep with you", or when you say "Your jeans compliment you figure", or "I have a drawer ready for when you come sleep with me", what you are doing is telling her explicitly that you are attracted to her and you desire her.
You are quite right. Some of the early Girls Chase articles have a section on "hiding the banana", which is supposed to mean not acting like a man and failing to be upfront about your desires: a way of behaving that is obviously not recommended. I'm not sure if I ever used to do this (maybe as a very young guy, sub-20) but for at least the past 15 years I have always tried to be very explicit that I desire a woman
as a woman and don't try to kick it under a carpet.
This has one of the biggest "values" seduction-wise.
I know I said I had read a lot of the materials, but I'm not sure I understand this concept.
When she answers you "thanks", or "that's sweet of you", or "last night I was tired", or "not this time"
...yeah that sucks!
Haha now you really made me laugh!!
Next time, I should respond: "Kitten? When I am done with you, you will be calling me Tiger."
Think with your guts, with your instincts: when you tell her "you are desirable", what would you honestly like to hear back from her? I can bet that it's not "thanks", or "you are so sweet".
Yeah no
I bet that what you really wanted to hear is "Oh Marty, you are also so desirable, I can't wait to get into bed with you and drop my panties for you"
Wow I would really love to hear this! It would be amazing if she said this!
"You are so sexy Marty, your words are making me melt, I want you to come and take me".
Yes!! How do I get her to reply that way?
As a rough estimation, I could see you spending a dozen hours for the whole process of organizing this trip, plus all the money, plus your vacations days that you are using for this, while from her side, she only spent maybe two or tree hours maximum, and some money, by answering your texts and buying you a gift. It does look unbalanced.
That is probably accurate.
Having said this, it does look like she respects you a lot, and she clearly likes your company.
I agree. Girls don't usually waste their time on dates for no reason. And she is always so lively and smiling during the date itself.
Except that if she's sleeping with people at the same time, while getting attention and affection from you, that's a win for her. But not for you. It's an unbalanced relationship, I would say.
Why are these other hypothetical lovers not giving her proper attention and affection? And why does she tolerate that?
You are right, I have tended always to "take care of" the women in my life. Whether a wife or girlfriend, they have always appreciated it when I organize trips, am attentive to their needs, make sure they have everything for happiness etc. And women say they want this from their lovers.
I agree that it tends to be a persistent problem for me that I do not receive enough "credit" or appreciation for these acts of attention and affection to other women, with whom I do not have a relationship—in terms of sexual reciprocity, I mean.
Some kind of ultimatum seems essecial here.
Lastly, just letting her know that you are walking away might, who knows, turns things on her side.
You stop doing anything nice to her. You have to make it clear that either she sleeps with you, or she will lose you.
I will tell you my fear with this. Please be patient and hear me out. I have no doubt that I may be wrong in many ways, but I need to be able to explain my thoughts first so that the issue can be picked apart properly.
I don't think that we have a level bargaining table. Yes, I have a girlfriend who sees me several times a year (we met first on Tinder, then after a few weeks I traveled to see her, and now we have been seeing each other for almost 7 years). But when you read the reports of the more senior and skilled members here (Modern Human and up), what you notice is that they have a seemingly unlimited "funnel" of women entering their lives all the time. I don't know whether that's because they lived the greater part of their lives in the same city and built amazing social networks—that is certainly not my case—or whether they can go out to bars and nightclubs and "pick up chicks" (as my friends used to say back in my university days)—not something I've ever been able to do either. But in whatever way, they constantly have access to women.
On the other hand, I have mostly what is called on the Girls Chase site "scarcity". There are beautiful women everywhere, wherever I am living or traveling, so if I had access to these, I would probably not worry much (or maybe even at all) about giving Botticelli an "ultimatum". But since I do not, and do not make friends or develop new contacts easily, I tend to treasure what I already have.
I also don't like discarding women like a used tissue, as it just seems wrong, although I suppose that if I give an ultimatum that gives a reasonable opportunity to maintain a good connection, this mitigates the concern a little. But ultimata to me seem like the tool of weak and angry people, and it just feels ungentlemanly.
In any case, as I said, the above may be misconceived, but I wanted to lay out my reasons for thinking that my negotiating position is too weak to be able to lay my cards on the line like that.
Thanks again for all your helpful thoughts, and for taking the time to read my report and reply so informatively.
-Marty
