- Joined
- Feb 23, 2022
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- 910
Hey Guys, so I recently dropped the ball on a seduction that should have otherwise gone really well. I figured I would break it down here and see what feedback you all care to offer.
Meet
I met this gal at a DIY warehouse dance party. We were dancing and she was making eyes with me so I approached. She was charmed. We chatted for about 10 minutes and I set some solid lover frames it was obvious she was intrigued. She just went through a breakup and left whatever state she was in to move to the town I am in. She was at the venue with a group of friends she recently met, it is a small venue, and she has to work in the morning. These three factors made it hard to see a pull right at that moment. Anyway I grab her number so we can sync up again for a date. The night continues and about 15 minutes later she approaches me again while she is heading out. We chat for about another 10 minutes and it is pretty clear there is interest here. This last convo solidifies the vibe. We are definitely going to meet up
Over the next couple of days, we exchange a series of texts that move things forward nicely and we are set for a date.
Date
We decide to go grab a drink at a local bar. This bar is one of my favorite pick up spots. It is dark and intimate. She actually suggested it, so I am just like "okay." Turns out we live in the same neighborhood so we decide to carpool. She swings by my place and we take her car. She has a sports car and I make a joke about her being wild ("uh oh I am I safe getting in this car with you, looks like you like to go fast") She denies this frame "I am actually really chill I don't know why you think I am wild" (This comes back later to haunt me). She is dressed super sexy in a crop top, a short black skirt, black leggings, and some knee-high high-heel boots. It is clear she is trying to impress. Aside from the "I am not wild, moment." We are definitely hitting it off. I make some very astute observations about her character. She recognizes my astuteness and tells me she feels like I really see parts of her a lot of people don't, and also that she is impressed and feels comfortable with me (she totally reverses this frame a few days later telling me I don't really see who she is as a person). This is all before we even get to the bar. There is some playful flirting and I tell her how good she is looking. When we get to the bar it is practically empty. The bartender (female), who I know, and I have a great exchange. Solid social proof. Me and my date make our way to an intimate corner and she gets all close up on me and is excitedly like "so is this a date?" I don't recall exactly what I said, but I was definitely ambiguous about it. Was kind of just brushing it off a bit, while at the same time being like "maybe this can be a date." I think I really should have just embraced it and been like "Yeah this can be a date" and pulled her close. But any way, we were still laughing and having a good time. She kept making physical advances, which I would accept, then move away, accept, then move away. I was aiming to make her work for it. Like, she was shy about her art when I told her to show me on her phone. I told her I like to know about the people I am close with, she showed me and I rewarded her by bringing her in close for a cuddle. I don't think this was entirely a bad strategy but I think I was probably playing just a little too hard to get. I probably should have been a little warmer on her, still being a little push-pull but showing her some more affection. Also could have used the opportunity to really sexualize the conversation. There was flirtation, but my distance put up a wall from really getting things smoldering.
So we leave the bar. Throughout the night she kept mentioning an open mic all her friends are going to. She starts pushing for this a bit but I brush it off nicely telling her "we are having a nice time and honestly I think we would have a better opportunity to connect doing something else." She hears this and is totally on board for something else. So we walk up the street to a hotel we can get on top of for a killer view. When we are up top I can sense her wanting to be closer but going into auto-reject a bit. Her energy is more reserved. I think the move her would have been to just hold her deep and close, but I overcompensate. This is my biggest mistake. I kiss her. She is really reserved about it. I tease her about "Is that how your gonna kiss or are you going to kiss with a bit of passion" She kisses with more passion, but still reserved. I end the kiss. At this point, the energy is fairly deflated from our date. Me kissing her killed the tension. It was also not really congruent with how I had been acting. She was working hard for my affection and then I just gave it away with no real good reason. So we get down on the street and it is time for the next move. At this point, the date turns into a series of damage control events. She mentions how small of a city it is, and how she was thinking that now that she was out of a relationship she would try a casual sex thing but that that's not really her vibe and she is concerned about people talking and such. I do some good frame control with some discretion frames and some frames about the importance of connection even when sex is casual. She is taking the bait, and starts getting really close to me. At one point we are just standing talking and she pulls me in really close. So it seems that things are turning around a bit, but overall she is still kind of distant compared to before. We decide to call it a night and we drive back to my place. She drops another frame saying it takes a long time to actually get to know somebody and feel comfortable with them. I counter this with a frame about chemistry and how some people just click. She is receptive to the frame. We get to my house and I invite her in to check out my art. She comes inside but is pretty despondent. She is kind of just wandering around doing her own thing checking out my place and I am having trouble keeping her attention. I make an observation about her that she is a curious person and it seems important for her that she has the room to be exploratory in the way she relates to people. She again tells me that I see pieces of her that no one else sees. Eventually she just straight up asks to see my room and I gladly take her. We kick off our shoes and lay down on the bed. We start making out but she is pretty passive. There is a brief moment where she is grinding on me a bit more. This was probably my moment to lean into it and get her turned on, but instead, I move to start kissing her belly. She all of a sudden turns on her side and is like "let's just spoon." She starts going on about how tired she is and has to work in the morning. I tell her it is probably time to call it a night. I see her out to the door. She is going in for a kiss and I am going in kind of slowly. She says "Hurry up, either we are kissing or not but I have to go. I don't have time for this" I tell her to get home safe and end without a kiss (It wouldn't have felt natural at this point, but maybe I should have kissed her).
Follow Up Date
I text her the next morning telling her I had fun and she replies "Thank you."
It is clear I am in damage control mode. I am not sure the approach I take is the best for a long-term strategy but it was effective on setting up a second date. Our text exchange goes like this
Me: I am feeling more open now that we've shared a moment. Clear your plans for tonight and you'll get more of me this time: I promise, miss Emily. So sweet and so strange (During our previous interactions she prided herself on being "strange" and artsy)
Her: I'll get more of you, what do you mean? What do you want to do? I am strange getting a drink with you and going home cause I was tired? Ok lol
Me: Haha, no no. Honestly, something intense with family had just come up that day (this was true) and I was kind of distant while you were so generous and warm. I want to give you my full attention.
Her: What do you want to do? honestly, I just felt observed and judged the whole time, after we just met and only hung out for a couple of hours
Me: It is vulnerable to be seen
Her: We can get dinner tonight, but then I have to go home. I work super early and have too many projects to work on.
So we meet for dinner. I come with some more warmth, kiss her on the cheek when I get there. She is still showing interest but way more reserved and maybe a little more standoffish. She is still open to touch, but far less touchy herself. i am having a hard time sparking chemistry up with her this time. She is a little too on the defense. She tells me that when I framed her as wild on our first date I was off base and that making assumptions about people you don't know feels like you are putting them in a box. She also cites when I commented on her curiosity as an example of this (which is the opposite of what she said when it came up on our date). Towards the end of the date she mentions she is open to being friends, and maybe having something casual between the two of us. She asks me what I am looking for. I tell her I am just taking things moment to moment, it's cool we are connecting but there are no expectations or agendas. I think maybe she wanted a clearer answer, but I got the sense she still got the hint that I am the type of guy who can do casual relations. She walks me to my car and we hug deeply. I grab her beautiful juicy ass and she says "Thank you for the affectionate touch"
I text her the next day and say "Hey green eyes" turns out her eyes are blue and she uses this as an excuse to shit test saying I can't see the real her (total 180 from her original stance of "wow you are so good at seeing pieces of me others don't) I fail this shit test multiple times (you can read about that here https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/text-shit-test-could-use-help.26559/) And that's all she wrote.
Post Mortem
So just to recap things here I want to go over what would have been the ideal 1st date. then highlight some major sticking points.
Ideal 1st date:
We go to the bar. Instead of doing so much back-and-forth push-pull, I only put up a little resistance. then just accept her advances, bring her in close and use the opportunity to build a deep sense of intimacy and start with some sexual frames. When things start to get steamy, push her away just a little then pull to the hotel roof. So just a moment or two of push-pull, instead of basically the entire time. Then on the roof use it as one more moment of intimacy, and say it was time to go home (no kissing) by the time we are at my house the tension would have been way higher than what happened during the actual date. Escalation would have been much easier.
I definitely came into this date too gamey. I didn't want to be too easy, but in turn, came across as inauthentic. Then when I did show affection it was incongruent with the frame I previously held of being hard to get. Also there were two frames I set that I thought went well but came back to haunt me. One was the idea that since it is a small town discretion is important. She later brought up that it is a small town so it might be best not to do casual sex (citing nothing about discretion). The other frame was one I set that chemistry and connection is important for passionate flings. i think this set too much a precedent of the idea that you have to really know a person to hook up. She would ultimately use this notion as an excuse not to hook up "You don't really see me." I think the frames themselves are decent, but the WAY I framed them had holes and she glomed on to the counter-productive elements.
All the second chances:
Even though things didn't go ideally I had many 2nd and 3rd chances.
-Sure I didn't build enough intimacy at the bar which sent her into auto reject. But I had a chance on the rooftop to do that. Instead, I went overboard and kissed, which killed the tension.
-Sure the kiss killed tension but there was a moment in bed when she was grinding me. I could have leaned into it instead of going to kiss her belly, which turned her off.
-Sure the date ended on me ultimately not giving her what she wanted (sex) but I was able to get her out again
-Sure the next date was brief and middle of the road, but she was still open to potentially being fuck buddies
-Sure I messed up her eye color in my text, but she kept engaging with shit tests because she wanted to see if I would pass them
What do you guys think? From what I laid out does my assessment seem accurate? How would you have played this differently at each point? Where is my mentality off? How do you manage dates with women that are practically throwing themselves at you at first? What do you think about her 180 form me "really getting" her to me "not seeing who she is as a person." Curious about your perspectives gentlemen. Always helpful
Meet
I met this gal at a DIY warehouse dance party. We were dancing and she was making eyes with me so I approached. She was charmed. We chatted for about 10 minutes and I set some solid lover frames it was obvious she was intrigued. She just went through a breakup and left whatever state she was in to move to the town I am in. She was at the venue with a group of friends she recently met, it is a small venue, and she has to work in the morning. These three factors made it hard to see a pull right at that moment. Anyway I grab her number so we can sync up again for a date. The night continues and about 15 minutes later she approaches me again while she is heading out. We chat for about another 10 minutes and it is pretty clear there is interest here. This last convo solidifies the vibe. We are definitely going to meet up
Over the next couple of days, we exchange a series of texts that move things forward nicely and we are set for a date.
Date
We decide to go grab a drink at a local bar. This bar is one of my favorite pick up spots. It is dark and intimate. She actually suggested it, so I am just like "okay." Turns out we live in the same neighborhood so we decide to carpool. She swings by my place and we take her car. She has a sports car and I make a joke about her being wild ("uh oh I am I safe getting in this car with you, looks like you like to go fast") She denies this frame "I am actually really chill I don't know why you think I am wild" (This comes back later to haunt me). She is dressed super sexy in a crop top, a short black skirt, black leggings, and some knee-high high-heel boots. It is clear she is trying to impress. Aside from the "I am not wild, moment." We are definitely hitting it off. I make some very astute observations about her character. She recognizes my astuteness and tells me she feels like I really see parts of her a lot of people don't, and also that she is impressed and feels comfortable with me (she totally reverses this frame a few days later telling me I don't really see who she is as a person). This is all before we even get to the bar. There is some playful flirting and I tell her how good she is looking. When we get to the bar it is practically empty. The bartender (female), who I know, and I have a great exchange. Solid social proof. Me and my date make our way to an intimate corner and she gets all close up on me and is excitedly like "so is this a date?" I don't recall exactly what I said, but I was definitely ambiguous about it. Was kind of just brushing it off a bit, while at the same time being like "maybe this can be a date." I think I really should have just embraced it and been like "Yeah this can be a date" and pulled her close. But any way, we were still laughing and having a good time. She kept making physical advances, which I would accept, then move away, accept, then move away. I was aiming to make her work for it. Like, she was shy about her art when I told her to show me on her phone. I told her I like to know about the people I am close with, she showed me and I rewarded her by bringing her in close for a cuddle. I don't think this was entirely a bad strategy but I think I was probably playing just a little too hard to get. I probably should have been a little warmer on her, still being a little push-pull but showing her some more affection. Also could have used the opportunity to really sexualize the conversation. There was flirtation, but my distance put up a wall from really getting things smoldering.
So we leave the bar. Throughout the night she kept mentioning an open mic all her friends are going to. She starts pushing for this a bit but I brush it off nicely telling her "we are having a nice time and honestly I think we would have a better opportunity to connect doing something else." She hears this and is totally on board for something else. So we walk up the street to a hotel we can get on top of for a killer view. When we are up top I can sense her wanting to be closer but going into auto-reject a bit. Her energy is more reserved. I think the move her would have been to just hold her deep and close, but I overcompensate. This is my biggest mistake. I kiss her. She is really reserved about it. I tease her about "Is that how your gonna kiss or are you going to kiss with a bit of passion" She kisses with more passion, but still reserved. I end the kiss. At this point, the energy is fairly deflated from our date. Me kissing her killed the tension. It was also not really congruent with how I had been acting. She was working hard for my affection and then I just gave it away with no real good reason. So we get down on the street and it is time for the next move. At this point, the date turns into a series of damage control events. She mentions how small of a city it is, and how she was thinking that now that she was out of a relationship she would try a casual sex thing but that that's not really her vibe and she is concerned about people talking and such. I do some good frame control with some discretion frames and some frames about the importance of connection even when sex is casual. She is taking the bait, and starts getting really close to me. At one point we are just standing talking and she pulls me in really close. So it seems that things are turning around a bit, but overall she is still kind of distant compared to before. We decide to call it a night and we drive back to my place. She drops another frame saying it takes a long time to actually get to know somebody and feel comfortable with them. I counter this with a frame about chemistry and how some people just click. She is receptive to the frame. We get to my house and I invite her in to check out my art. She comes inside but is pretty despondent. She is kind of just wandering around doing her own thing checking out my place and I am having trouble keeping her attention. I make an observation about her that she is a curious person and it seems important for her that she has the room to be exploratory in the way she relates to people. She again tells me that I see pieces of her that no one else sees. Eventually she just straight up asks to see my room and I gladly take her. We kick off our shoes and lay down on the bed. We start making out but she is pretty passive. There is a brief moment where she is grinding on me a bit more. This was probably my moment to lean into it and get her turned on, but instead, I move to start kissing her belly. She all of a sudden turns on her side and is like "let's just spoon." She starts going on about how tired she is and has to work in the morning. I tell her it is probably time to call it a night. I see her out to the door. She is going in for a kiss and I am going in kind of slowly. She says "Hurry up, either we are kissing or not but I have to go. I don't have time for this" I tell her to get home safe and end without a kiss (It wouldn't have felt natural at this point, but maybe I should have kissed her).
Follow Up Date
I text her the next morning telling her I had fun and she replies "Thank you."
It is clear I am in damage control mode. I am not sure the approach I take is the best for a long-term strategy but it was effective on setting up a second date. Our text exchange goes like this
Me: I am feeling more open now that we've shared a moment. Clear your plans for tonight and you'll get more of me this time: I promise, miss Emily. So sweet and so strange (During our previous interactions she prided herself on being "strange" and artsy)
Her: I'll get more of you, what do you mean? What do you want to do? I am strange getting a drink with you and going home cause I was tired? Ok lol
Me: Haha, no no. Honestly, something intense with family had just come up that day (this was true) and I was kind of distant while you were so generous and warm. I want to give you my full attention.
Her: What do you want to do? honestly, I just felt observed and judged the whole time, after we just met and only hung out for a couple of hours
Me: It is vulnerable to be seen
Her: We can get dinner tonight, but then I have to go home. I work super early and have too many projects to work on.
So we meet for dinner. I come with some more warmth, kiss her on the cheek when I get there. She is still showing interest but way more reserved and maybe a little more standoffish. She is still open to touch, but far less touchy herself. i am having a hard time sparking chemistry up with her this time. She is a little too on the defense. She tells me that when I framed her as wild on our first date I was off base and that making assumptions about people you don't know feels like you are putting them in a box. She also cites when I commented on her curiosity as an example of this (which is the opposite of what she said when it came up on our date). Towards the end of the date she mentions she is open to being friends, and maybe having something casual between the two of us. She asks me what I am looking for. I tell her I am just taking things moment to moment, it's cool we are connecting but there are no expectations or agendas. I think maybe she wanted a clearer answer, but I got the sense she still got the hint that I am the type of guy who can do casual relations. She walks me to my car and we hug deeply. I grab her beautiful juicy ass and she says "Thank you for the affectionate touch"
I text her the next day and say "Hey green eyes" turns out her eyes are blue and she uses this as an excuse to shit test saying I can't see the real her (total 180 from her original stance of "wow you are so good at seeing pieces of me others don't) I fail this shit test multiple times (you can read about that here https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/text-shit-test-could-use-help.26559/) And that's all she wrote.
Post Mortem
So just to recap things here I want to go over what would have been the ideal 1st date. then highlight some major sticking points.
Ideal 1st date:
We go to the bar. Instead of doing so much back-and-forth push-pull, I only put up a little resistance. then just accept her advances, bring her in close and use the opportunity to build a deep sense of intimacy and start with some sexual frames. When things start to get steamy, push her away just a little then pull to the hotel roof. So just a moment or two of push-pull, instead of basically the entire time. Then on the roof use it as one more moment of intimacy, and say it was time to go home (no kissing) by the time we are at my house the tension would have been way higher than what happened during the actual date. Escalation would have been much easier.
I definitely came into this date too gamey. I didn't want to be too easy, but in turn, came across as inauthentic. Then when I did show affection it was incongruent with the frame I previously held of being hard to get. Also there were two frames I set that I thought went well but came back to haunt me. One was the idea that since it is a small town discretion is important. She later brought up that it is a small town so it might be best not to do casual sex (citing nothing about discretion). The other frame was one I set that chemistry and connection is important for passionate flings. i think this set too much a precedent of the idea that you have to really know a person to hook up. She would ultimately use this notion as an excuse not to hook up "You don't really see me." I think the frames themselves are decent, but the WAY I framed them had holes and she glomed on to the counter-productive elements.
All the second chances:
Even though things didn't go ideally I had many 2nd and 3rd chances.
-Sure I didn't build enough intimacy at the bar which sent her into auto reject. But I had a chance on the rooftop to do that. Instead, I went overboard and kissed, which killed the tension.
-Sure the kiss killed tension but there was a moment in bed when she was grinding me. I could have leaned into it instead of going to kiss her belly, which turned her off.
-Sure the date ended on me ultimately not giving her what she wanted (sex) but I was able to get her out again
-Sure the next date was brief and middle of the road, but she was still open to potentially being fuck buddies
-Sure I messed up her eye color in my text, but she kept engaging with shit tests because she wanted to see if I would pass them
What do you guys think? From what I laid out does my assessment seem accurate? How would you have played this differently at each point? Where is my mentality off? How do you manage dates with women that are practically throwing themselves at you at first? What do you think about her 180 form me "really getting" her to me "not seeing who she is as a person." Curious about your perspectives gentlemen. Always helpful
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