Casual/FWB Breakdown of a relationship with a fwb/lover that fizzled out

[Skippy]

I'm trying to figure out why things went south with this one.

I had just gotten back from winter break so I texted Lemon to see what was up and to try and get her over. basically, she said

Her: Hey, I should've said this earlier but in the time that we weren't talking, I met this other person who I recently became exclusive with and I wanted to be honest with you instead of just ghosting you because ghosting people is messed up and you deserve better than that. I also did have a lot of fun on our dates- I'm not just saying that, I do mean it. I'm glad our paths crossed and I hope this year is way better than last year for you!

Me: Hey Lemon, I understand. It was great meeting you too and best of luck with everything :kissyface-emoji:

I have to admit, that really stung. Especially because she told me on our 4th date that she wasn't looking for anything serious and that she 'wasn't looking for a boyfriend'. While I was relieved because I didn't want anything committed with her. I thought that she would probably change her tune after fucking for a couple more months. I guess I did catch some feelings for her.

And I thought I had done almost everything correctly in terms of the management (sex on the first date, anal on the 4th, she initiated meeting up twice. and I think I took her virginity) I personally thought my sex performance was decent. We went for 3 rounds of sex each time, I was dominant(lots of growling, and hair pulling, and ass spanking), and I tried to add some variety to the sex. She told me she thought about me when she masturbated. The main negative that I can think of is that she didn't cum at all, BUT she still hadn't learned how to cum on her own and she had recently bought a vibrator to figure that out. So I dunno if that would've been the issue.

So yea, my ego took a walloping today. To think that she picked some other dude after all that.

Now I'm trying to figure out what went wrong so that I can learn about retention. This girl was seriously cute and I definitely think about her when I'm horny, but she's not girlfriend material both physically and background-wise (she's almost at that level personality-wise). So ultimately this is a wonderful learning opportunity.

Possibilities:

• Maybe the timeline with my traveling messed things up:
  • We went on 4 dates over a period of 2 weeks.
  • Then I didn't text her for 2 weeks and I was away visiting family for another 3 weeks.
  • She never texted me in that time period and I never texted her either.
  • I finally get back in November after about 6 weeks of no contact. She's flirty over text and responding at her usual rate, but she can't meet up for some reason that week.
  • I go home for winter break. We don't contact each other at all while I'm away
  • Meanwhile, she's home all alone for the break since her family is away. (about 6 more weeks)
• Maybe I used Pablo's Silent Text method incorrectly. I was trying to always let her initiate texts and as a result, she initiated texting for the 3rd and 4th dates. However, after that she stopped initiating texts and so after not hearing from her for about 6 weeks, I caved and decided to text her. maybe that was a mistake. Pablo warned in his article not to do it and I did it anyway thinking this was an exception and that it was unlikely she had met someone so soon during covid. Maybe she went into auto rejection and stopped initiating because I didn't text her and maybe I needed to be even warmer with her in person.
• Maybe too much of a lover, not enough provider traits--The thing is, she already said she said didn't want this relationship to be serious way before I left to go traveling and all that. So maybe it means she did not see this lasting very long already. Also, she's 18 and I'm 26. Maybe the age difference was too much for her. And given the fact that I was maybe a little aloof over text gave her that impression. Also, I was much more sexually experienced than her. Maybe she saw me as too much of a fucboi.
• Maybe the sex was not that great? Honestly, I dunno about this one. Kind of doubt that's the case since she came back for more.

One thing that I will definitely implement is if I'm going to be away traveling, I should make sure to see a girl right before I'm leaving and give her really good sex.

Other than that, I'm not really sure where the main fuckup was, so I'm looking forward to hearing other perspectives on this. And also let me know if I need to expand on anything, or if anything is unclear

 

[Velasco]

Alright, I had to ctrl+f, this lemon girl to see the context for myself and this is what i think happened

from your LR on this girl

Here's her logistics. She lives far away with her parents, but she works in a building right across my apartment. So the only time we could meet up is week-days. She usually just gets picked up by her parents after work. Unless she gets her parents to drive her to my district on the weekends.

a comment i made to Peter back in July

Logistics.

First year of game I lost a beautiful girl because I lived too far away from her, for it to be a regular thing between us. And she had bad logistics herself like your girl's situation. and then trying to find workarounds. It's just unnecessary stress. Even if she really liked you. She not 'hooked' yet (so she can female state control herself out of attraction for you, then ghost you...or start taking longer and longer to text back) Cause u still in that tricky early stage where your trying get your 2-3 lays in to solidify the fuckbuddy frame. That's why I prefer just banging them at their place. And then just coming over whenever they're horny (not always, but yeah).

i'm willing to bet this new guy in her life has good logistics. So she doesn't need to convince her parents to drive her to your district. She wants to get laid, its as simple as either the guy coming over to pick her up from her house, or she can walk to his place. But lets not blame her for this. If you or I were in a position where there was a cute girl who lived 2 minutes away from you VS a slightly cuter girl that lived an hour away, i can bet you'd choose the former (assuming exclusivity is your goal).

The thing also with fuckbuddies that we have to remember is that they are trading the sex for relationship. Even tho they consciously don't recognize it when they tell you, they "aren't looking for something serious". its biological. This is why in Chase's how to convert SNL into regular sex, he doesn't just say, the key is to just go multiple rounds with her. He also includes 'build an emotional connection' and 'spending time together after intimacy' which are two key ingredients in making her see 'boyfriend potential' in you. Hence keep wanting to give you sex, in order to get you (not that the sex in and of itself isn't great). Your job is to keep that free trial going forever

And last, I don't like that you ghosted her for 6 weeks after that one week where you banged her 3 separate times. Not your fault, I know you were just field testing Pablo's technique, but what I do different, is that if 2 weeks go by without any contact from her, I'll text her a funny meme/gif. this serves two purposes. 1) to keep her from going into auto-rejection. and 2) as bait to get her to ask me out. either right then and there, or a couple days from now, now that she's confirmed i haven't ditched her for another girl,, she has the added confidence to reach out.

alright so that's my theory of what went on here. of course i can obviously be way off from what actually happened, but i wanted to help bring some closure to this chapter, and i hope your next relationship will last for as long as you like, thanks to these tips

 

[PalmaSailor]

I think it’s very simple - she didn’t cum with you. And I’m not dissing you, but somehow or other it didn’t get there.

ive just got hold of a very young woman - compared to me - and I’m her N2 or 3, and I managed to get her to cum for the first time ever and she’s all over me.

so if this other guy has managed to hit the spot then she’s gonna fall for him and she’s hooked.

move on.

 

[Velasco]

To me, there's only bad sex and good sex. Bad sex = not enjoying yourself (it won't be a very pleasurable experience for you, if you can't stay hard in order to fuck the shit out of her like you want, or if you're too worried you might be too extreme for her, in turn having some wack ass vanilla sex....which nobody wants, despite her, "don't be too rough"). Good sex = enjoying yourself.

Her cumming is often a side effect of you enjoying yourself. She won't always cum, but it doesn't matter. The sex itself is very pleasurable to her (besides her wanting to hang out with you, that's what she calls you over for). because for them, cumming is a cherry on top of a delicious ice cream sundae.

Orgasms Satisfy Women; Lack of Orgasms Keeps Them Faithful

The more women orgasm from sex, the more satisfied with sex and their relationship they are. But the less of a protective effect sex has against other men… It's actually a bit more nuanced than the title. But the title is not wrong either. When I was a younger guy I was obsessed with making sure...

www.girlschase.com

i'd say a girl letting you know she jerks off to you, is a good sign she likes the sex and being with you.

So for me, the issue was more, with what he did after he got her hooked in the first two weeks of their relationship (logistics played a big factor in this). Not saying the her never cumming isn't also an issue, cause it is. But really that's as simple as increasing the speed on the position you see her really enjoying, when you see she's on the verge of cumming.

 

[PalmaSailor]

To me, there's only bad sex and good sex. Bad sex = not enjoying yourself (it won't be a very pleasurable experience for you, if you can't stay hard in order to fuck the shit out of her like you want, or if you're too worried you might be too extreme for her, in turn having some wack ass vanilla sex....which nobody wants, despite her, "don't be too rough"). Good sex = enjoying yourself.

Her cumming is often a side effect of you enjoying yourself. She won't always cum, but it doesn't matter. The sex itself is very pleasurable to her (besides her wanting to hang out with you, that's what she calls you over for). because for them, cumming is a cherry on top of a delicious ice cream sundae.

Orgasms Satisfy Women; Lack of Orgasms Keeps Them Faithful

The more women orgasm from sex, the more satisfied with sex and their relationship they are. But the less of a protective effect sex has against other men… It's actually a bit more nuanced than the title. But the title is not wrong either. When I was a younger guy I was obsessed with making sure...

www.girlschase.com

i'd say a girl letting you know she jerks off to you, is a good sign she likes the sex and being with you.

So for me, the issue was more, with what he did after he got her hooked in the first two weeks of their relationship (logistics played a big factor in this). Not saying the her never cumming isn't also an issue, cause it is. But really that's as simple as increasing the speed on the position you see her really enjoying, when you see she's on the verge of cumming.

“But really that's as simple as increasing the speed on the position you see her really enjoying, when you see she's on the verge of cumming.”

yeah I know.

im just saying if she wasn’t hitting the ceiling with him, and she did with the next guy, she’s gonna give him the dear John, and bang the next guy.

 

[Skippy]

i'm willing to bet this new guy in her life has good logistics. So she doesn't need to convince her parents to drive her to your district. She wants to get laid, its as simple as either the guy coming over to pick her up from her house, or she can walk to his place. But lets not blame her for this. If you or I were in a position where there was a cute girl who lived 2 minutes away from you VS a slightly cuter girl that lived an hour away, i can bet you'd choose the former (assuming exclusivity is your goal).

I hadn't even thought about that, but yea it makes sense because during winter break she was all alone at home and her family had gone off to Brazil. (She wanted to stay behind). So whoever it was had to have been living nearby, or at least able to go over to her place.

The thing also with fuckbuddies that we have to remember is that they are trading the sex for relationship. Even tho they consciously don't recognize it when they tell you, they "aren't looking for something serious". its biological. This is why in Chase's how to convert SNL into regular sex, he doesn't just say, the key is to just go multiple rounds with her. He also includes 'build an emotional connection' and 'spending time together after intimacy' which are two key ingredients in making her see 'boyfriend potential' in you. Hence keep wanting to give you sex, in order to get you (not that the sex in and of itself isn't great). Your job is to keep that free trial going forever

lol @ the free trial. That's true, I was overly focused on the sex and forgot about the emotional connection. During our dates, she would come over in the evening. First, we'd chat a little, but not really. Then we'd fuck for a bit, make dinner/watch a movie, and fuck some more. Conversation would flow much better after the sex. I guess it's more just from the post-sex openness that happens. I do think there was some emotional connection just by virtue of the setup, but maybe I could've given her more specific and targeted compliments, for example. I mostly just complimented her on her looks and cute outfits. I did deep dive her a little bit on our first date, but maybe not actively so.

But one thing which is subtle is that I wouldn't really reciprocate the same energy when she texted me. Like once, the day after our 2nd date, she texted me out of the blue just to make conversation and I was responding warmly and all that, but I wasn't actively trying to add fuel to the conversation. In my mind, I was actually slightly irritated that she was texting me. It sounds contradictory given the situation, but I was actually worried when she did things like that b/c I didn't want her to catch feelings too hard.

One time at my place she told me, "I like it here!" I asked her "what do you like about my place?" she said "You!". I don't remember what I said to that but I should've said something like "I like having you over too etc..." but I said something else, and in my mind, I was worried she was catching feelings.

She would usually leave around 2am, and by then I would be sleepy(I work early mornings) and I would want her to leave, so maybe I came across as getting bored of her. And I was always keeping myself emotionally distant when I felt she was getting more emotionally involved. Whenever she was acting more chasey, I was internally feeling more aloof, but I tried to cover it up by being kind.

That's why on our 4th date when she said "I'm...not sure where you see this relationship going, but I'm not looking for anything serious" I was a little offended/surprised but mostly relieved. And also surprised that she seemed to think I wanted this to be serious b/c I did not think it showed in my behavior. (the context was we were talking about how we met and I was trying to frame how we met as something very novel and unique compared to how people usually meet)

This is partly why I was hesitant to text her again because I didn't want to seem too eager now. But in hindsight that seemed must've put her into auto-rejection as you mentioned below:

And last, I don't like that you ghosted her for 6 weeks after that one week where you banged her 3 separate times. Not your fault, I know you were just field testing Pablo's technique, but what I do different, is that if 2 weeks go by without any contact from her, I'll text her a funny meme/gif. this serves two purposes. 1) to keep her from going into auto-rejection. and 2) as bait to get her to ask me out. either right then and there, or a couple days from now, now that she's confirmed i haven't ditched her for another girl,, she has the added confidence to reach out.

That's an excellent idea with the meme! I will try that on the next girl I want as an fwb. Just to make sure I understand this, do you also ask her out yourself, or do you only let her do the asking?

And true, after 2 weeks of no contact, I was getting antsy, myself. And after 3 weeks, I was getting worried. She must've been feeling similarly. When she texted me to hang out, it was always just straight-up "hey are u free tomorrow night" and both times, I just said yes. So because I didn't text her myself even though I was free, she probably thought I didn't really give a shit. and was feeling blase about the whole thing.

This goes back to the whole logistics thing. If I'm away traveling, perhaps I should've at least called her once then. But maybe this is deviating too much from the spirit of fwb/casual relationships.

alright so that's my theory of what went on here. of course i can obviously be way off from what actually happened, but i wanted to help bring some closure to this chapter, and i hope your next relationship will last for as long as you like, thanks to these tips

Thanks as always, Velasco! This was really helpful and I always appreciate reading your analysis

 

[Velasco]

it makes sense because during winter break she was all alone at home and her family had gone off to Brazil. (She wanted to stay behind).

ahhhh very interesting

Just to make sure I understand this, do you also ask her out yourself, or do you only let her do the asking?

yes i also ask by calling her up on the day i want to see her, like, "hey what are u doing right now?"- when I know she's at her house (past 10pm). Then, "k i'm coming over". But the ratio in terms of her asking me to come over VS me asking is like 4:1.

 

[Skippy]

I think it’s very simple - she didn’t cum with you. And I’m not dissing you, but somehow or other it didn’t get there.

ive just got hold of a very young woman - compared to me - and I’m her N2 or 3, and I managed to get her to cum for the first time ever and she’s all over me.

so if this other guy has managed to hit the spot then she’s gonna fall for him and she’s hooked.

move on.

Fair enough. I have dated girls that had more hangups around sex and even focusing a little bit on getting them to have their first orgasm just puts too much pressure on them. I don't think that was the case with her, but she had never orgasmed even on her own so I figured, I'll just be selfish, treat her like a sex doll, and enjoy myself (which coincidentally will also be fun for her) and I usually last a long time anyway so it'll be fine. And in the meantime, I'll let her explore on her own first and learn how to orgasm by herself with a vibrator. Then once she knows how to do that, I'll put more effort into getting her off.

Then on our 4th date she bought a vibrator and it was her first time using it. She used it while I was fucking her, and nearly came (she felt like she had to pee) but couldn't quite go over the edge. Perhaps I could've pushed for an orgasm there but I guess I was being a little lazy and also a little averse to putting pressure on her to cum.

I guess I will have to rethink this.

I didn't think you could make a girl easily cum from sex if she hasn't cummed before, like in your case. But yea maybe the other dude was willing to put in the effort or maybe he met her after she got familiar with her vibrator.

BUT...maybe the whole issue with her even meeting another guy could've been avoided if I hadn't ghosted her for 6 weeks and been away.