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FR++  Brought her back on the first date--no lay

raysidney

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Aug 9, 2015
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I met Laura (short, cute, petite Indian girl) through social circle, over a happy hour. To preface, we never knew each other's ages, but I found out after the date that she's rougly 37; I'm 26, and think that age might have been the barrier. On our first date we grabbed dinner at a local pizzeria in walking distance from my apartment. The date started on awkward footing, but improved as the evening wore on. When she arrived, I reserved seats outside, but we had to wait another 30 min for our table. I suggested we walk outside while waiting, and after a few minutes we sat on a park bench and got in some deep conversation. She started with her hands crossed for the first 10 minutes, but soon after warmed up and was telling me all about her work, travels, etc. She seemed to have an “ahah!” moment with me when I mentioned her work progression from a cold read. About 20 min later, still waiting for our table, I told her we’d go back and see if there was bar seating. Back at the restaurant, without no table, we grabbed a spot at the bar. At the bar we talked about her exercise classes, running, her multiple trips to India, upcoming travel to Machu Pichu, how she went to Catholic school for 12 years – in short she seemed to really open up about herself. About an hour and a half in to the date, I went for the pull.
Me: Oh cool. Your travel plans are pretty adventurous. So…I was thinking…how about after pizza we walk over to my apartment and I can show you my new place.

Laura: Sure! That would be cool.

Maybe I can show you pictures from my travels to Malaysia too.

Laura: Sounds good. I’d love to see your pictures.

We stayed at the restaurant for another 45 minutes and the date seemed like it continued to go well. She seemed into me and even did a cold read on myself saying that she didn’t see me staying in my current town too long (which I took for her slotting me out of boyfriend material) – I tend to move around a lot. Again, (as she said 2-3 times before), she brought about how she wanted to send me some article she read from an interesting topic we were discussing, which I took as investment from her in me. Already 1 glass of wine down, she ordered a second glass, and asked that I help her finish it. However, things started to go south. Not inherently bad at face value, about 10 minutes before we left the restaurant, she told me she couldn’t stay too long at my place. I took that as her anti-slut defense kicking in, but it was more than that.

The walk to my apartment precluded what would happen at my place. During the entire walk, she complained about it being far, and had her hands crossed the entire time. Though the walk was just 0.4mi, and she’s in great shape. She said things like:

Laura: I should have just drove my car. Your place is farther than I expected.

Laura: Where are you taking me? This is scary. (I live in a well-to-do city neighborhood…)

I didn’t think much of how she acted during the walk to my place, but it was telling of what was to come.

Not helping the situation, both my roommates were on the couch watching TV (I live with two girls) when she entered. Laura and my roommates said “hi” to each other, but nothing more. I asked her to take her shoes off, which she obliged. Soon after, she mentioned again that she couldn’t stay too long but did want to see my pictures.

I went into my bedroom, but she stayed in the kitchen. While sitting on my bed, I fired up my lap top, thinking she would come to my bedroom, but still was in the kitchen just standing there silent. I called her name, and she walked into my room. While sitting on my bed right next to each other, for about 10 minutes I showed her photos of my travels. I didn’t notice any obvious signs from her wanting me to kiss her, but figured she wanted me to – she came back to my place, was sitting on my bed beside me. I went for the kiss but she moved her head back, stood up, and said she only had a few minutes left. I moved farther apart from her to give her space, and continued to show her pictures. But from that point she seemed she did want to leave. A few minutes later, she said that she wanted to go, and ask that I walk her back to her car. I told her it was a bit far to walk, and she got quite angry at one point told me to "at least be a gentleman." I never did walk her back to her car. I eventually caved in when we were outside and offered, but she angrily said that she was fine.

Please share any thoughts on what I could have done differently. I’m chalking this one off as there was little I could have done, but I’m thinking I needed to get her more aroused, bring up implicit sexual humor, or it was the age gap. I was stumped why she didn’t want to kiss me at the very least. My belief is that my age, if she did pick up during the date that I'm a bit younger than her, that she thinks I’m too young. Later on I looked her up on linkedin and, going off when she graduated college, she’s 37 and I’m 26. Mind you, she looks young for her age, more like 25, or 30, at best. I never took her as acting that age during the date, and it didn’t seem it would have been an issue as she seemed pretty interested in me during the date. I’m chalking this one off as there was little I could have done, but I’m thinking I needed to get her more aroused, bring up implicit sexual humor, etc.
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

Seppuku

Tribal Elder
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Aug 25, 2014
Messages
1,149
Re: Brought her back on the first date--no lay--what was I missing?

Hey man,

Very interesting read. You started very good, and handled most of the date very well. But you suggested your home too early. Then she started to grow uncomfortable, and you didn't manage her discomfort, allowing it to grow. By the time you tried the kiss, she was no longer in a receptive state. Comfort, first and foremost!

Here are some comments.

raysidney said:
At the bar we talked about her exercise classes, running, her multiple trips to India, upcoming travel to Machu Pichu, how she went to Catholic school for 12 years – in short she seemed to really open up about herself.
Up to that point, you were good I think. She seemed genuinely interested and invested in the date.

About an hour and a half in to the date, I went for the pull.
Me: Oh cool. Your travel plans are pretty adventurous. So…I was thinking…how about after pizza we walk over to my apartment and I can show you my new place.
Mistake here, too early! You propose her to come to your home, then stay another 45 minutes in the place. The date continues but in the background she starts to ponder what is going to happen, and starts to build discomfort and defenses.

Maybe I can show you pictures from my travels to Malaysia too.

Laura: Sounds good. I’d love to see your pictures.

Your pretext for the pull was a good one, and her reaction excellent. You should have proposed exactly the same, but just when you're about to go. In order to avoid exactly that.

I took that as her anti-slut defense kicking in, but it was more than that.
Yep. She's been pondering about what's next for too long now, growing discomfort and building ASD. The right moment to propose to go home would have been now, as you leave the restaurant.

The walk to my apartment precluded what would happen at my place. During the entire walk, she complained about it being far, and had her hands crossed the entire time. Though the walk was just 0.4mi, and she’s in great shape.

Transitions between places are always delicate. You want to chat her all the time to keep her logical mind occupied. Ideally your restaurant is close from your home so as to limit the time spent in transitions. But the 0.4mi should be manageable. Just chat her all the time.

Not helping the situation, both my roommates were on the couch watching TV (I live with two girls) when she entered. Laura and my roommates said “hi” to each other, but nothing more.
Maybe she didn't expect to see roommates here? That would add to the discomfort.

I went into my bedroom, but she stayed in the kitchen. While sitting on my bed, I fired up my lap top, thinking she would come to my bedroom, but still was in the kitchen just standing there silent. I called her name, and she walked into my room.
She's now very uncomfortable. I would have gone to the kitchen, serve her a drink, take her hand gently, and lead her softly in a "come with me" fashion to the bedroom.

I didn’t notice any obvious signs from her wanting me to kiss her, but figured she wanted me to – she came back to my place, was sitting on my bed beside me.
Yes, initially she liked you and would have welcome a kiss. But right now there were too many things making her uncomfortable. Going for the kiss or escalation, at this stage, was counterproductive.

Comfort, first and foremost.

I went for the kiss but she moved her head back, stood up, and said she only had a few minutes left.
Also, you didn't mention anything about touching her. Was it your first attempt at touching her? That's awkward. You should get her used to your touch within the first few minutes of the date. The physical barrier is like a wall, which is easier to break very early on.

A few minutes later, she said that she wanted to go, and ask that I walk her back to her car. I told her it was a bit far to walk, and she got quite angry at one point told me to "at least be a gentleman." I never did walk her back to her car. I eventually caved in when we were outside and offered, but she angrily said that she was fine.
Here you lost her for good. I take women to my bed and always drive them back. Refusing to walk them back will not make you look like a strong man, but more like a jerk.

You managed the conversation and flow very well during the date, except that you proposed home too early. Make sure you touch her very early into the date, so that she gets used to you physically. Also, stay aware of her mood, make sure she remains comfortable, or otherwise work your way back to comfort again. Escalate when you're sure she feels good.



Overall, very promising.
Cheers,
Seppuku
 

HellAtlantic

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Jul 1, 2015
Messages
301
Re: Brought her back on the first date--no lay--what was I missing?

I wonder if he had a chance for a kiss had he walked her back to the car, or was that strictly for escorting purposes?
 

raysidney

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
17
Re: Brought her back on the first date--no lay--what was I missing?

Seppuku-

Thanks for the reply with lots of helpful analysis and advice.

I used touch periodically throughout the date and she seemed comfortable with it - from putting my hand behind her back when we walked into the restaurant, to touching her arm/elbow/quad on high notes.

I kept thinking that age was a barrier, but from your analysis it doesn't seem that was an issue. You were spot on in that I took too long to leave the restaurant with her. I actually had that feeling during the date, but didn't dawn on me again until you mentioned it. Looking back, she ate her pizza rather quick, for good reason ;) but it was me who delayed us leaving, by a lot of time.

How would you have handled the walk back? Should I have just ended the date early and said I'm tired (since my 2 girl roommates were there)? We continued to talk on the way back; the conversation wasn't awkward. After reading Chase's recent article, https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-never-take-what-women-say-face-value, I was thinking I could have said something like this to her:

Laura: I should have just drove my car. Your place is farther than I expected.

Me: Hm. You must be tired from all of that running? How about I carry you instead? (then jokingly half-pick her up)



HellAtlantic,

The kiss was long gone. She wanted me to walk her to her car for escorting purposes. Next time I'll be less of a dick and walk the girl back, even if she doesn't hook up with me.
 

Seppuku

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
1,149
Re: Brought her back on the first date--no lay--what was I missing?

raysidney said:
Thanks for the reply with lots of helpful analysis and advice.
Welcome, man :) happy to help.

I used touch periodically throughout the date and she seemed comfortable with it - from putting my hand behind her back when we walked into the restaurant, to touching her arm/elbow/quad on high notes.
OK good. See what I post here https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13379&p=69020#p69020.

You must have broken the physical barrier before you attempt escalation. In fact, touching is the beginning of physical escalation.

I kept thinking that age was a barrier, but from your analysis it doesn't seem that was an issue.
Age is an issue, but not as much as the other issues you had. It's more difficult with older women, you have more ASD rationalization and societal programming to overcome. But here, she was into you initially I think.

You were spot on in that I took too long to leave the restaurant with her. I actually had that feeling during the date, but didn't dawn on me again until you mentioned it. Looking back, she ate her pizza rather quick, for good reason ;) but it was me who delayed us leaving, by a lot of time.
Make sure you build up tension, I'm not sure from your text how you handled that... I use touch to get her excited while maintaining a cool vibe. My touch says I like her, but my vibe remains cool, so she keeps guessing. Doing this way you can get them pretty excited. Some other people use sexual framing (I use it sometimes depending on context).

You propose your home when you go out of the restaurant. You keep the least amount of time between mentioning your home, and her actually entering your home. Precisely to avoid her ASD rationalization kicking in. Remember, her logical part says "I'm not easy to get", while her primal part says "I want to fuck this hot guy asap". You need to handle this dichotomy. You speak to both her logical and her primal parts.

How would you have handled the walk back? Should I have just ended the date early and said I'm tired (since my 2 girl roommates were there)?
Transition always delicate, you keep it as short as you can and chat her all the time to keep her logical brain occupied.

Regarding the roommates, you must prepare the ground I think. She can't just come to your home and discover there's two other people. I never had this case, so I don't think I can help further. Some other guys here have similar situation with roommates, see how they deal with this.

Always assume it's the last time you see her, ever. You're never sure if you'll get a second date. But if you know the logistics is not right (another date will be required), then I would advise you keep the first date short (one hour), build her excitement without spilling your beans, and end up the date leaving her wanting for more. Arrange the second date a few days later when you have better logistics, and bring her home early into the date. It's more or less the basis of BlackDragon's two dates model. Just be aware that it's more advanced. First date sex is in general easier.

In general I think you did a lot of things right. This is just adjustment. You have to be careful of you're situation at home. With the housemates there, she's going to worry things like "what are they going to think of me". See if there's a way to have more discretion.
 
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