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Can failure to get past LMR trump LOVE?

michaelahuja

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Is failure to get past LMR really that powerful? I recently experienced a failure to get past panties after the third date:
https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19904, and, like girlschase would predict, I got friendzoned.

Im having trouble accepting the fact that wonderful attraction between two humans can be destroyed because a man respects when a woman doesn't give consent?

So in my scenario, there was escalation in each date. From hand holding the first date, to making out the second, to (almost) naked foreplay the third. This obviously would progress into sex the 4th date, but just because she didn't want her panties off, and you persisted 3 times instead of 10 or whatever, its over?

If I asked her what went wrong between us, would she tell the truth? "You weren't able to convince me to have sex"?

Have you guys experienced anything similar?
 

Seppuku

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michaelahuja said:
Is failure to get past LMR really that powerful? I recently experienced a failure to get past panties after the third date:
https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19904, and, like girlschase would predict, I got friendzoned.
Sorry to hear. You won't be the first, nor the last though.
Im having trouble accepting the fact that wonderful attraction between two humans can be destroyed because a man respects when a woman doesn't give consent?
I encourage you to read one of Chase's older posts, titled "Dating without sex: why it usually doesn't work". In this post, Chase says:
Chase said:
Because dating and romance and courtship is just the mating dance; and a mating dance that is not followed by mating leads to the male dismissed as impotent.
This is one of these little gems that should be taught in schools!
So in my scenario, there was escalation in each date. From hand holding the first date, to making out the second, to (almost) naked foreplay the third. This obviously would progress into sex the 4th date, but just because she didn't want her panties off, and you persisted 3 times instead of 10 or whatever, its over?
Not bad, but not yet fast enough in my opinion. Try escalation to sex on the first, or second date. That's when your chances are the most solid.

And, still in my humble opinion, you should skip the "make out" step as part of the progression altogether. Make out with her when she is naked and you are about to penetrate her. Making out which is not immediately followed by sex, is extremely risky and can back fire big time. First, there is the social pressure thing ("what are other people going to think of me?"), but second, and most importantly, it tells her "I have him". It kills the sexual tension and mystery. Don't take chances.

If I asked her what went wrong between us, would she tell the truth? "You weren't able to convince me to have sex"?
No she won't. Even it is actually true, she is not consciously aware of it. She doesn't rationalize it this way. She is just having an overall back feeling, some sort of intuition, telling her "I do not view him this way".

Have you guys experienced anything similar?
Yes, don't worry, we ALL have been there. LOL :)

Seppuku
 

LoneWolf14

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I feel like this whole LMR thing is presented the wrong way.

LMR is not the reason why you didn't have sex. There are other reasons which led to LMR which in turn led to you not having sex with her.

She wasn't in love with you to begin with, but at some point she did like you quite a lot.

My guess is that she friendzoned you because she felt that you were looking for a relationship, which she clearly isn't at this point and she realized that by hooking up with you, you would really start pushing for the relationship.

Give her 3-4 weeks and hit her up with something like 'Hey, buddy! How have you been? Let's catch up over some drinks on Friday' (or whatever). It's gonna confuse her a bit. What's good about this girl is that she seems to be responding when you throw her ball in her court so if she doesn't go out with you tell her 'well let me know when you're free, I'd like to see you;.
 

foggy

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michaelahuja said:
If I asked her what went wrong between us, would she tell the truth? "You weren't able to convince me to have sex"?

dude i took a look at the screenshot of you guys texting, which you said was the last conversation you guys had....

the whole thing screams, "i am chasing you! please accept me!" ... you literally even told her that you love chasing girls.

if that is representative of your whole interaction with her, then she lost attraction for you because you consistently presented yourself as low value. no girl wants to fuck a low value guy.
 

Franco

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michaelahuja,

As fog mentioned above, the screenshot of your text exchange was pretty awful. I'm assuming you haven't read too many of the articles on this site yet because the primary goal of the site is to get girls to chase you -- not the other way around. If you explicitly state that you are chasing a girl before you have sex with her, you'll find out quickly that it's a fantastic way to get her panties to dry right up and never hear from her again.

On your more general question about LMR:

Seppuku quoted a great piece by Chase from an article. In general, once you get to the actual physical escalation aspect that is supposed to lead to sex, it's usually do or die -- meaning that your one chance to sleep with her and potentially convert her into something longer-term is right in that moment. Occasionally you can physically escalate with a girl and have her see you again, but like quote that Seppuku linked earlier, it essentially becomes a "failed" mating dance at that point to the girl because she'll rationalize that, if she really liked you, you two would have had sex then and there. So she'll justify her own reason for not sleeping with you and often decide that there was a good reason for it and that it's pointless to continue (or, in her mind, "restart") the mating dance.

So what this means for you is that you should definitely continue to push-pull escalate for as many hours as she needs until she finally decides to sleep with you. You can even offer to let her sleep over if it gets really late and then try again in the morning, although I only really recommend doing this with women you really like and see as girlfriend potential. You don't want some less-than-satisfactory girl to begin thinking that sleeping in your bed might become a norm!

I would never ask a girl about what went wrong -- you'll get a vague answer that is nowhere near the truth for you (but might seem like 'truth' to her).

Lastly, as LoneWolf mentioned, at no point was she ever in "love" with you during this interaction. Women don't fall in love with men they haven't had sex with yet; they might feel "strong attraction" for a man, but strong attraction can disappear in a heartbeat whereas a true feeling of "love" to a woman is extremely sticky and is much more difficult for her to get rid of.

Hope this helps!

- Franco
 

michaelahuja

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fog said:
michaelahuja said:
If I asked her what went wrong between us, would she tell the truth? "You weren't able to convince me to have sex"?

dude i took a look at the screenshot of you guys texting, which you said was the last conversation you guys had....

the whole thing screams, "i am chasing you! please accept me!" ... you literally even told her that you love chasing girls.

if that is representative of your whole interaction with her, then she lost attraction for you because you consistently presented yourself as low value. no girl wants to fuck a low value guy.

Actually that was not at all representative of my whole interaction with her. I actually mentioned in the FR, but there were instances where SHE wanted to hang out with me but I was busy. That last text was a desperation attempt because she seemed to have lost interest in me (supposedly because I couldnt get in her pants).
 

michaelahuja

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Thanks for the reply Franco.

Franco said:
As fog mentioned above, the screenshot of your text exchange was pretty awful. I'm assuming you haven't read too many of the articles on this site yet because the primary goal of the site is to get girls to chase you -- not the other way around. If you explicitly state that you are chasing a girl before you have sex with her, you'll find out quickly that it's a fantastic way to get her panties to dry right up and never hear from her again.

Actually that text was sent after the lost interest in replying to my invitations to hang out via text. At this point I was under the impression that she no longer liked me, so I wanted to see if this was the case, so I asked her. It's a valid assumption that if she stop enthusiastically replying to my texts, she's no longer interested right? If you ask to hangout and you get "Im busy" without any indication of when she's free?

, it's usually do or die -- meaning that your one chance to sleep with her and potentially convert her into something longer-term is right in that moment.
So you're telling me when most people go for the kiss one date, and sex the next date etc. are doing it wrong? Mainstream media is all wrong about this? Then shouldn't there be soooooo many relationship issues and heartbroken guys in the world?

Also, you said women don't fall in love with you until you bed them, are you sure this is true? I know in many cultures, such as in Asian cultures, you can fall in love with people you've never had sex with.
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

michaelahuja

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Seppuku said:
And, still in my humble opinion, you should skip the "make out" step as part of the progression altogether. Make out with her when she is naked and you are about to penetrate her. Making out which is not immediately followed by sex, is extremely risky and can back fire big time. First, there is the social pressure thing ("what are other people going to think of me?"), but second, and most importantly, it tells her "I have him". It kills the sexual tension and mystery. Don't take chances.

Yes, that makes sense, but it worked in my favor in my situation. The girl wanted more, she texted me to see if im free a few days after I romantically made out with her on the beach when it was below freezing and all we had was each others bodies to keep each other warm.

Yes, don't worry, we ALL have been there. LOL :)

You've had an experience where you didnt get past LMR, and tried to get the girl and she just rejected you? Have you noticed that it's pretty consistent rejection when this happens, like 90% of the time?
 

michaelahuja

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LoneWolf14 said:
My guess is that she friendzoned you because she felt that you were looking for a relationship, which she clearly isn't at this point and she realized that by hooking up with you, you would really start pushing for the relationship.


Sorry, this doesnt make sense? If she wasn't looking for a relationship, she was just looking for sex, right? Then she would be ok with sex, because im giving her exactly what she wants?


Give her 3-4 weeks and hit her up with something like 'Hey, buddy! How have you been? Let's catch up over some drinks on Friday' (or whatever). It's gonna confuse her a bit. What's good about this girl is that she seems to be responding when you throw her ball in her court so if she doesn't go out with you tell her 'well let me know when you're free, I'd like to see you;.

So you're telling me even though she has explicitly told me she only sees me as a friend, there's some way she's gonna change her mind?
 

LoneWolf14

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Dude I'm sorry it was not what you were hoping for, we've all been there.

No, you were not offering her what she wanted. That's the point. Judging by how needy you're looking over these comments, I can only imagine how you came across to her. You even mentioned that you were dressing up and being afraid not to mess this up before you even met her in person. It's actually quite impressive that you got this far with this mindset, she must've really liked you.

Yet again, she was not in love with you. You mentioned she was on the rebound and she's been screwing guys left and right. In essence, LMR comes when she's not sure about something, whether that would be you or something about the thing between the two of you. This is why I said that LMR in itself is not the reason why you didn't have sex, but rather something else which led to her putting up that LMR. Sometimes, LMR might not even be about your, but in this case I'm pretty sure that you actually did something. If she sniffed your intentions or your neediness, you can even treat that LMR as a shit test that you failed. And your last text exchange was just bad. Saying that you like to chase girls is just a very bad way to go and that screenshot just screams of desperation. You don't realize it but that's the vibe you're giving off and you've probably given that vibe on other occasions.

And yes, you can definitely turn this around, women's emotions towards a guy go up and down all the time. Why do newbies as well as some PUAs think that once a girl loses interest it's gone for good? I would go as far as to say that the vast majority if not all the girls that I messed up with (and they're quite a few, believe me) came back in some way or another. But I would be able to perform the comeback only after I had cured my neediness (if i happened to be needy) and after I've addressed the issue that made her lose interest in the first place.

The main reason why comebacks don't happen as often is not that girls are these weird creatures that grant you one chance and one chance only. It's because most of the time the guy starts chasing hard and doing even more sketchy shit or by the time the guy has gotten to a level where he can make the comeback happen, he's moved on to someone else. The latter is the most common. From what I've seen.

I suggest you start following Dan Bacon's work. It's so simple and it works wonders. It's all about mindset and yours is a wreck right now, don't even think about re-approaching this girl until you've cured your neediness because you're gonna get closer to the point of no return.

Start talking to other girls and gain experience on them and leave this girl for now. Once you've cured your neediness, you can re-approach her. By the time you've cured your neediness one of the two will happen: you will either be able to do things right with this girl this time around or you will find someone else, more exciting. Either way, it's a win.
 

foggy

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michaelahuja said:
fog said:
michaelahuja said:
If I asked her what went wrong between us, would she tell the truth? "You weren't able to convince me to have sex"?

dude i took a look at the screenshot of you guys texting, which you said was the last conversation you guys had....

the whole thing screams, "i am chasing you! please accept me!" ... you literally even told her that you love chasing girls.

if that is representative of your whole interaction with her, then she lost attraction for you because you consistently presented yourself as low value. no girl wants to fuck a low value guy.

Actually that was not at all representative of my whole interaction with her. I actually mentioned in the FR, but there were instances where SHE wanted to hang out with me but I was busy. That last text was a desperation attempt because she seemed to have lost interest in me (supposedly because I couldnt get in her pants).

okay, maybe it wasnt representative of your whole interaction. you had value in her eyes at first. but after taking a closer look at your field report its clear to me that the tables turned and you started seeking her approval and chasing her long before the text convo
 

michaelahuja

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fog said:
michaelahuja said:
fog said:
michaelahuja said:
If I asked her what went wrong between us, would she tell the truth? "You weren't able to convince me to have sex"?

dude i took a look at the screenshot of you guys texting, which you said was the last conversation you guys had....

the whole thing screams, "i am chasing you! please accept me!" ... you literally even told her that you love chasing girls.

if that is representative of your whole interaction with her, then she lost attraction for you because you consistently presented yourself as low value. no girl wants to fuck a low value guy.

Actually that was not at all representative of my whole interaction with her. I actually mentioned in the FR, but there were instances where SHE wanted to hang out with me but I was busy. That last text was a desperation attempt because she seemed to have lost interest in me (supposedly because I couldnt get in her pants).

okay, maybe it wasnt representative of your whole interaction. you had value in her eyes at first. but after taking a closer look at your field report its clear to me that the tables turned and you started seeking her approval and chasing her long before the text convo

Thanks man. I'm going crazy over this. I know it's a pretty long FR, but do you think you can narrow down where you see that in the interaction? I laid it all out chronologically from first to last date.

I thought I was being pretty reasonable, we didn't see each other for weeks after our 3rd date so I was just trying to see her and figure out why she wasn't too enthusiastic about seeing me
 

michaelahuja

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LoneWolf14 said:
Dude I'm sorry it was not what you were hoping for, we've all been there.

No, you were not offering her what she wanted. That's the point. Judging by how needy you're looking over these comments, I can only imagine how you came across to her. You even mentioned that you were dressing up and being afraid not to mess this up before you even met her in person. It's actually quite impressive that you got this far with this mindset, she must've really liked you.

Yet again, she was not in love with you. You mentioned she was on the rebound and she's been screwing guys left and right. In essence, LMR comes when she's not sure about something, whether that would be you or something about the thing between the two of you. This is why I said that LMR in itself is not the reason why you didn't have sex, but rather something else which led to her putting up that LMR. Sometimes, LMR might not even be about your, but in this case I'm pretty sure that you actually did something. If she sniffed your intentions or your neediness, you can even treat that LMR as a shit test that you failed. And your last text exchange was just bad. Saying that you like to chase girls is just a very bad way to go and that screenshot just screams of desperation. You don't realize it but that's the vibe you're giving off and you've probably given that vibe on other occasions.

And yes, you can definitely turn this around, women's emotions towards a guy go up and down all the time. Why do newbies as well as some PUAs think that once a girl loses interest it's gone for good? I would go as far as to say that the vast majority if not all the girls that I messed up with (and they're quite a few, believe me) came back in some way or another. But I would be able to perform the comeback only after I had cured my neediness (if i happened to be needy) and after I've addressed the issue that made her lose interest in the first place.

The main reason why comebacks don't happen as often is not that girls are these weird creatures that grant you one chance and one chance only. It's because most of the time the guy starts chasing hard and doing even more sketchy shit or by the time the guy has gotten to a level where he can make the comeback happen, he's moved on to someone else. The latter is the most common. From what I've seen.

I suggest you start following Dan Bacon's work. It's so simple and it works wonders. It's all about mindset and yours is a wreck right now, don't even think about re-approaching this girl until you've cured your neediness because you're gonna get closer to the point of no return.

Start talking to other girls and gain experience on them and leave this girl for now. Once you've cured your neediness, you can re-approach her. By the time you've cured your neediness one of the two will happen: you will either be able to do things right with this girl this time around or you will find someone else, more exciting. Either way, it's a win.

Appreciate the response. I really liked her, and when she rejected me like that, of course I'm feeling hurt and needy as a result. I'm trying to meet up for ice cream with her 'just as a friend'. It isnt wise to make a move while we're meeting as friends, is it?

I actually have a sort of unrelated question. How are there so many successful relationships and marriages if there are so many trivial things that can ruin the attraction? All those people don't read up on PUA stuff, or red pill or girlschase, right? How is it that those people just end up together without following all these rules? That's kind of what I was hoping with this girl. Sure, I may come across as a little needy, but I bet hundreds of millions of successful relationships started off that way?
 

LoneWolf14

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Your view on this matter is kinda wrong. PUAs don't claim to know the only way to getting girls. Those who do are either stupid or lying. Rather, their focus is to give themselves the best shot with as many high quality girls as possible and to prevent heartbreak. PUAs who come up with classic stuff like 'move on to another girl', 'once you blew it, it's gone for good' and such beliefs which are in essence self-limiting beliefs, aren't actually that good and pretty much lack experience themselves.

Let me give you Chase as an example. If you've been following girlschase for a while, and have read many articles, you will notice that as time progresses his views change, which is natural for any human being. Here's an example:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/attr ... ation-date This is one of his most popular articles and it dates back to 2011. You can definitely tell that it has a quite extreme and short-sighted view on attraction and its supposed expiration. I recommend you read it, though. Fast forward to 2017 he came up with this article on pretty much the same topic: https://www.girlschase.com/content/attr ... or-it-isnt
This article is almost the complete opposite of the former. While in the first one he says that once a girl loses attraction, she's gone for good, in the latter he says that attraction can definitely be rekindled IF it was there in the first place. Why is that? Because as time progressed he got better, he gained more experience and broadened his view on this matter as well as others. There are many such examples on his site, this is the one that came to mind right now. I personally found out the latter to be much more accurate, from my personal experience.

Also, ever since I've been applying PUA stuff, while I've gotten so much better with girls, I've noticed that certain PUA techniques don't seem to work on most girls. Don't forget that PUAs are aware of the fact that you will get together with a small percentage of the girls that you approach. Why? Because many techniques are designed to work on basic female psychology and ignore stuff like the girl's thinking (women do rationalize, they just do it after they respond emotionally to something, unlike men), her personality etc.

For instance, I've noticed that throwing the ball in a girl's court doesn't usually work. I've actually never made it work, yet it's claimed by PUAs that it's the best shot you have if a girl flakes for instance. I found this to be absolute bullshit and I actually found the reason why: if you want a woman to chase you, she must never realize that she's actually doing that, much like you don't realize that you've been chasing the girl you've posted about. By throwing the ball in her court she instantly rationalizes 'oh, he's trying to get me to chase. I'm not gonna do that'. So you might still have a shot with that girl and she might actually want to see you if you persisted, but because you're not persisting she thinks that you're playing her or whatever so she goes into auto-rejection and that's when you lose her. That's when a PUA would say 'she didn't respond to you throwing the ball in her court because she didn't actually like you'. That's total bullshit. However, as I said in an earlier reply, your girl seems to actually responding to this technique so you can do it in this particular case.

Here's a recent post that I made about a girl I also want to get back: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19900

In my latest reply to fog I mentioned how I accidentally ignored a text I got from her and we had a date set that day. She got mad and cancelled the date. I then explained myself and she stopped being upset and made a counter-offer. So what I did was to follow PUA advice and to not accept a counter-offer I didn't like. So I declined her counter-offer, thinking that she's jerking me around (that was not the case) and told her that she's gonna have to do better than that and that she'll have to ask me out the next time. What happened? She obviously never asked me out because she realized I'm trying to get her chasing (even though she was chasing up to that point, she just didn't realize it, but she did now), she went into auto-rejection, I did some more bullshit which got her thinking that I was playing her (which i kinda was) and that I didn't care about her, we've been fighting and I've been trying to get my attainability back up ever since, and have only had a bit of success lately.

So in the end, leave your girl for now, focus on fixing your mindset and curing your neediness. And you absolutely MUST follow Dan Bacon's work as well as Todd Valentine. I recommend watching Dan Bacon's video about getting out of friend-zone and Todd Valentine's video, featuring RSD Max on how to persist without being needy. If you want to perform a comeback with your girl, those two videos will be the basis of your comeback. Still, give her a month of no contact. If she follows you on instagram or whatever social media platform, post ever once in a while pics, videos, stories whatever of you having fun, try getting some girls involved if you can. It will ease your comeback. In a month time I suggest you come back here and read your op on this thread again. If your reaction will be something like 'gosh how needy I was', there's a good chance that you've fixed your mindset. Hit her up and be ready to persist.

Also to answer your other question, I'm actually very confident that i can turn any female friend of mine into a potential lover. I actually almost did it with a girl who I never thought would ever have any interest in me. Over the course of us hanging out two times i got her from never wanting to flirt with me, to always flirting with me, touching me, wanting to meet my mom, being insanely approval seeking, holding hands and her inviting me over at her place. It's insane what you can do with good kino and a good flirt and that's what Dan Bacon teaches but this requires a lot of confidence in yourself and a carefree mindset. And yet again, good kino and good flirting abilities. So to answer your question, yeah, you can hang out as friends and turn it around but judging by the way you're presenting yourself over text, I'm not sure you'd be able to do it at this particular point in time. I believe that courting her is the better option for you. Yet again, follow Dan Bacon and if you feel like you can do his stuff (it's not advanced stuff at all, it's fairly simple but, yet again, it's all about mindset) then yes, you can accept being friends with her. However, even as friends you will still be sexual, you will flirt with her, use kino, be a challenge etc. Just start watching his stuff and see where it takes you.

Good luck, bro and if you have any success let us know.
 

LoneWolf14

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One more thing, don't make a move if you meet as friends. Flirting and using kino doesn't count as making a move. It just keeps a sexual vibe so, doing that is totally fine. If she rebuffs, take a step back. Act friendly then try again. Once she accepts your sexual frame again, she will be fine with flirting back and touching you back. That doesn't mean that you'll be kissing or fucking, it just means that she's fine with flirting and touching which is a great sign. Once she does that, don't make a move right away. Build up some tension, which means that you will have to keep doing what you're doing without making your intentions clear. One of two things will happen: she will either make a move herself (unlikely though) or she will be receptive to when you finally make a move. When you make a move, don't do some creepy, supposedly romantic stuff. Let's say that you're fooling around, touching each other an flirting and you've been doing it for a while. If she enjoys it and she's having fun you kiss her. You don't talk about this stuff with her, you just do it. Once she wants more, she'll do the talking herself. You initiate and wait for her reaction. If she rebuffs, you take a step back and start from scratch. The same principles of escalation apply here as well.
 

michaelahuja

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LoneWolf14 said:
One more thing, don't make a move if you meet as friends. Flirting and using kino doesn't count as making a move. It just keeps a sexual vibe so, doing that is totally fine. If she rebuffs, take a step back. Act friendly then try again. Once she accepts your sexual frame again, she will be fine with flirting back and touching you back. That doesn't mean that you'll be kissing or fucking, it just means that she's fine with flirting and touching which is a great sign. Once she does that, don't make a move right away. Build up some tension, which means that you will have to keep doing what you're doing without making your intentions clear. One of two things will happen: she will either make a move herself (unlikely though) or she will be receptive to when you finally make a move. When you make a move, don't do some creepy, supposedly romantic stuff. Let's say that you're fooling around, touching each other an flirting and you've been doing it for a while. If she enjoys it and she's having fun you kiss her. You don't talk about this stuff with her, you just do it. Once she wants more, she'll do the talking herself. You initiate and wait for her reaction. If she rebuffs, you take a step back and start from scratch. The same principles of escalation apply here as well.

You gave me a lot of information here. I'm taking some time to understand all this and do some more research. Will send a proper response soon, thanks!
 

Franco

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michael,

Actually that text was sent after the lost interest in replying to my invitations to hang out via text. At this point I was under the impression that she no longer liked me, so I wanted to see if this was the case, so I asked her. It's a valid assumption that if she stop enthusiastically replying to my texts, she's no longer interested right? If you ask to hangout and you get "Im busy" without any indication of when she's free?

Yeah, that's generally a safe assumption.

The way to find out if a girl is still interested is to request compliance, so whenever she declines that compliance (like in this case where she was rejecting wanting to see you), then that's usually a good sign that she's lost interest.

So you're telling me when most people go for the kiss one date, and sex the next date etc. are doing it wrong? Mainstream media is all wrong about this? Then shouldn't there be soooooo many relationship issues and heartbroken guys in the world?

There are tons of relationship issues and heartbroken guys all over the world. :p

Divorce rates are above 50% in many places, most women are generally unhappy with their lives because men have become weak and needy, and men are unhappy because they don't understand how to get women.

As for the relationships that "seem" okay, there's often issues you don't even see behind the scenes. As an example: some people stay together because of children, and either the wife or the husband is secretly (or occasionally knowingly) cheating and having sex with other people. And this type of behavior exists everywhere, but obviously people are wary of disclosing the private details of their personal lives that could affect them negatively.

To be honest, most relationships are complete disasters these days. Unfortunately, it's often not even the fault of the men or the women themselves -- society (and mainstream media) is often (unknowingly) pushing people into these problems. This website exists as an oasis to escape from the mainstream traps that just about everyone falls into when it comes to dating and relationships.

Also, you said women don't fall in love with you until you bed them, are you sure this is true? I know in many cultures, such as in Asian cultures, you can fall in love with people you've never had sex with.

Any woman that hasn't had sex with a man has not fallen in love with him. If I were to go to Asia and sleep with a bunch of these women that are with men that haven't had sex with them, I could easily steal their hearts away. And that's mostly because their hearts have not been taken in the first place.

This isn't something that's easily explainable until you experience it first-hand. Sexual intercourse with a woman is what allows her to be in her most vulnerable state and give you her full submission -- it's only in this state that she's able to feel the strongest emotions for someone.

I would go through the website and check out some of the recommended articles. There's a lot of great content on here that is explained in detail and would likely answer many of your questions. :)

Cheers,

Franco
 

michaelahuja

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
15
LoneWolf14 said:
PUAs who come up with classic stuff like 'move on to another girl', 'once you blew it, it's gone for good' and such beliefs which are in essence self-limiting beliefs, aren't actually that good and pretty much lack experience themselves.

But from what I've read, Chase has this view. He's posted articles where he says "move on". Also, more specifically, I read an article where he said it would take a miracle to get a girl where you've failed to get past LMR. He said the only other alternative he can think of is inviting the girl over to a party, as a friend. Then having everyone at the party validate you socially, have girls hit on you etc. Then leave the party early, but say goodbye to your girl first, and spend a few minutes with her. And a day later as the girl to hang out.

From what I understood from Chase's articles, he's essentially saying move on to other prospects because girls like the one in my situation are almost impossible to get back.

Let me give you Chase as an example. If you've been following girlschase for a while, and have read many articles, you will notice that as time progresses his views change, which is natural for any human being. Here's an example:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/attr ... ation-date This is one of his most popular articles and it dates back to 2011. You can definitely tell that it has a quite extreme and short-sighted view on attraction and its supposed expiration. I recommend you read it, though. Fast forward to 2017 he came up with this article on pretty much the same topic: https://www.girlschase.com/content/attr ... or-it-isnt
This article is almost the complete opposite of the former. While in the first one he says that once a girl loses attraction, she's gone for good, in the latter he says that attraction can definitely be rekindled IF it was there in the first place. Why is that? Because as time progressed he got better, he gained more experience and broadened his view on this matter as well as others. There are many such examples on his site, this is the one that came to mind right now. I personally found out the latter to be much more accurate, from my personal experience.

I have problems with the second article. If attraction cannot be created, then what are we doing as PUA's in the first place? If she decides within seconds if she's attracted, then why do we even work on seduction after the first few seconds?

Ok-ok ignore what I asked, it seems Chase is saying fascination and attraction are two different things.

For instance, I've noticed that throwing the ball in a girl's court doesn't usually work. I've actually never made it work, yet it's claimed by PUAs that it's the best shot you have if a girl flakes for instance. I found this to be absolute bullshit and I actually found the reason why: if you want a woman to chase you, she must never realize that she's actually doing that, much like you don't realize that you've been chasing the girl you've posted about. By throwing the ball in her court she instantly rationalizes 'oh, he's trying to get me to chase. I'm not gonna do that'. So you might still have a shot with that girl and she might actually want to see you if you persisted, but because you're not persisting she thinks that you're playing her or whatever so she goes into auto-rejection and that's when you lose her. That's when a PUA would say 'she didn't respond to you throwing the ball in her court because she didn't actually like you'. That's total bullshit. However, as I said in an earlier reply, your girl seems to actually responding to this technique so you can do it in this particular case.

So for instance I asked a girl yesterday if she wants to get coffee. She said she may or may not be busy today. I told her "Okay let me know tomorrow then". She actually didn't get back to me. This is what you're saying right?

I recommend watching Dan Bacon's video about getting out of friend-zone and Todd Valentine's video, featuring RSD Max on how to persist without being needy. If you want to perform a comeback with your girl, those two videos will be the basis of your comeback

Done!

And yet again, good kino and good flirting abilities. So to answer your question, yeah, you can hang out as friends and turn it around but judging by the way you're presenting yourself over text, I'm not sure you'd be able to do it at this particular point in time. I believe that courting her is the better option for you.

I'm going to do some more reading on 'courting' I read up on it but forget.

Also, im thinking of actually doing something very.. ermmm.. dont know what the right word is. I'm planning on meeting her for a coffee and telling her that I've redeemed a 2 person all inclusive trip to Hawaii through credit cards rewards, and that I want her to come with me. I know its completely different from your outlined plan, but I don't think I have much time left to make this work. I have a very high sense of urgency at this point in my life and want to make things work asap. If I wait a couple of months, she's gonna have another bf, maybe get married and shit. Im at that age.

So, if she is even remotely attracted to me, she should accept my invitation right? Who would deny a free trip to Hawaii? (I'm just *offering* it to her, not saying im actually willing to spend my rewards points for a girl im infatuated with)
 

LoneWolf14

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
54
'So, if she is even remotely attracted to me, she should accept my invitation right? Who would deny a free trip to Hawaii? (I'm just *offering* it to her, not saying im actually willing to spend my rewards points for a girl im infatuated with)'

Please tell me you're not for real, that's just insanely creepy. If you want to make sure that you're never gonna have a chance with this girl ever again, go ahead and do that. If not, read again what I and the other users told you to do, we've all been very specific.

Also, Chase in another article explained that for instance he's also insisting on moving fast with the courtship, not because moving slow is actually bad, but because beginners don't know how to properly court slowly. He also says in the article about getting a girl back that he is not saying that you should move on because you can't get the girl back, but because it is highly unlikely that you will fix things fast because if you mess up, you have a problem which is unlikely that you will be able to fix right away. As far as my experience goes, comebacks don't happen mainly because the guy moves on if he's messed up. Each time I messed up (until recently) I had a flaw in my game. Once I fixed it, most of the time the girl that I messed up with regained interest, but by that time I had access to better girls, all thanks to the fact that I had improved my game and I was no longer interested. Guys take this whole 'move on, you'll find someone better' thing way too literally. This advice comes from the direction that I just mentioned. It's better to try with someone else so you can fix your game. It's better to move on because there's a huge change you will find someone better. It is better to move on because it's easier to start a new courtship rather than undo the damage of another courtship, then do things right. There are few instances where a girl is hard to replace, and by the sound of it you're not in one such case with that particular girl.

Don't say 'get back to me tomorrow' that's not a proper usage of that technique because it sounds a bit needy. When you throw the ball into her court, you pull back your offer and leave the door open. So it would be something like 'ok, let me know if you wanna hang out some time, I would like to catch up with you' or something along those lines. In this case you're showing two things: that you're not waiting around, and also that you're not a bitter guy since you're leaving the door open. However, as I said, I don't think this technique works with most women. A better option would be to pull back your offer, wait a week or two, hit her up with something funny and ask again. Women's emotions change all the time and it's better to act upon that, instead of establishing a frame where she's chasing you. As I said, girls seems to pick up on the fact that you're trying to put them into a chasing position, and most won't hit you up even if they actually want to go out with you. That's why persistence is the way to go.

In the end, I don't find LMR to be such a big issue, at least not where I come from. I also only do social circle, and LMR is actually routine in social circle. However, i can see why it is a problem as far as cold approach goes, and TInder is pretty much cold approach. You must understand that in social circle, your dick like unique. That girl wants YOUR dick because there's a bunch of other things that she likes about you: you're funny, you're popular, you get along well, she's comfortable with you and the list goes on. So her goal is not to get your dick, but actually to get you. Whereas for a girl on Tinder you're just another horny guy and there's tons of guys who'd like to fuck her with no strings attached. She just wants dick, and doesn't care much about the provider. As far as this particular girl goes, she's emotionally unavailable because it sounds like she's still hung up on her ex. As I said, she most definitely picked up on your intentions and she doesn't want to complicate things. That's why you have to wait before you re-engage.
 
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