Can someone please give a different perspective on being assertive and being non-reactive with a girl?

Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I'm not sure how to deal with this!?!
Instead of explaining what I mean, I'll give an example:

A girl I'm texting leaves me on read or takes forever to reply. If I do the same, she gets offended and ghosts me but if I'm being myself (which I am) and just answer in reasonable time and don't leave her on read, I'm seen as a pushover and nice guy. Also, if I tell her or tease her or call her out on this, I'm being reactive. What is the correct way to deal with this?

I used to follow trp in the past but I don't want to go that route anymore. I feel it should be fair and a level playing field
 

Wick

Cro-Magnon Man
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Just get her out on a real date.

you’re being reactive in more ways than you realize. Everything you said is in response (reaction) to her. Instead of sticking to the plan, your boundaries and good game.

Get her out on a date if you like her.
Sounds like you’re doing too much text game, which is rarely a good strategy.

is this even a real life example?

a girl who leaves you on read is disinterested. You doing the same back is good (so you can move on and stop wasting time). If she gets upset, good, keep your cool and don’t take it too seriously. If she’s crazy move on, if she’s shit testing you, keep your frame of “it’s not big deal, silly, let’s hang out if you’re missing me that much”

Btw, I respond quickly all the time. Sometimes I’m busy, and just set up a date right away, so I can get it off my mind.

If you tease her or call her out on it, that’s good, not being reactive. Of course if you do it in a whiny, weak way that’s bad. But if you’re doing it playfully and not taking it too seriously, that’s not reactive, that’s game.
 

Sully

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I observed that ' playing with fire (dating channel on YouTube) ' uses lines like this to deal with flakes.

"If you are nervous, I totally understand"

Basically

"If you are (some negative quality), I totally understand"

This is gas lighting to get the girl reactive.
(Sure they showed examples where it worked).

It was a hit or miss when I used it. (Got called out once too).
 

Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I observed that ' playing with fire (dating channel on YouTube) ' uses lines like this to deal with flakes.

"If you are nervous, I totally understand"

Basically

"If you are (some negative quality), I totally understand"

This is gas lighting to get the girl reactive.
(Sure they showed examples where it worked).
I think this sounds like a good idea. Why is it gaslighting?
It was a hit or miss when I used it. (Got called out once too).
What do they call you out on?
 

Chase

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@Shawn,

A girl I'm texting leaves me on read or takes forever to reply. If I do the same, she gets offended and ghosts me but if I'm being myself (which I am) and just answer in reasonable time and don't leave her on read, I'm seen as a pushover and nice guy. Also, if I tell her or tease her or call her out on this, I'm being reactive. What is the correct way to deal with this?

This is pretty unusual. Is this a pattern you have happen to you or is it just this one girl?

I'd be curious what sort of messages she is sending you that communicate offense at you leaving her on read. Also what she is messaging you that tells you she sees you as a pushover when you don't leave her on read.

My first thought was, "This must be a girl who simply doesn't respect you." But that doesn't explain why she takes offense at you not responding.

She could just be psycho: "Shawn needs to be there when I want him there. I don't actually want to date him or anything, but he NEEDS to be there to listen to me when I want to talk. OMG, it's so rude when he isn't." Maybe there's something you did to lead her to think she could expect that from you though?

Definitely a weird question mark type of situation.

I guess it's also possible she could be a Female Dating Strategy chick who is just working the moves on you:

  1. "Leave him on read to build intrigue and make him chase? Check."
  2. "Don't stand for him doing the same for you -- a guy should always be attentive? Check."
  3. "If he tries to act flirty too soon, brush it off -- he needs to EARN that. Check."

If I was you I would just forget about texting this weird, flakey chick; get her on phone calls (or maybe video messages), get a feel for whether there's actually any attraction there, and push for a meet. If no, then leave her on read... permanently... and go meet some other girls.

Chase
 

Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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@Shawn,



This is pretty unusual. Is this a pattern you have happen to you or is it just this one girl?

I'd be curious what sort of messages she is sending you that communicate offense at you leaving her on read. Also what she is messaging you that tells you she sees you as a pushover when you don't leave her on read.

My first thought was, "This must be a girl who simply doesn't respect you." But that doesn't explain why she takes offense at you not responding.

She could just be psycho: "Shawn needs to be there when I want him there. I don't actually want to date him or anything, but he NEEDS to be there to listen to me when I want to talk. OMG, it's so rude when he isn't." Maybe there's something you did to lead her to think she could expect that from you though?

Definitely a weird question mark type of situation.

I guess it's also possible she could be a Female Dating Strategy chick who is just working the moves on you:

  1. "Leave him on read to build intrigue and make him chase? Check."
  2. "Don't stand for him doing the same for you -- a guy should always be attentive? Check."
  3. "If he tries to act flirty too soon, brush it off -- he needs to EARN that. Check."

If I was you I would just forget about texting this weird, flakey chick; get her on phone calls (or maybe video messages), get a feel for whether there's actually any attraction there, and push for a meet. If no, then leave her on read... permanently... and go meet some other girls.

Chase
Soo, I spoke to her and I got the answer. I called her after she sent this text. She's in an open-relationship and she likes me but as she said, she's confused/overwhelmed with too many guys to handle. She was just stringing me along either for validation or when she gets bored of the other guy she is seeing I guess. I couldn't decipher her weird behavior though

 

Chase

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Soo, I spoke to her and I got the answer. I called her after she sent this text. She's in an open-relationship and she likes me but as she said, she's confused/overwhelmed with too many guys to handle. She was just stringing me along either for validation or when she gets bored of the other guy she is seeing I guess. I couldn't decipher her weird behavior though

That explains it!
 

Alpha13SC

Cro-Magnon Man
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I'm not sure how to deal with this!?!
Instead of explaining what I mean, I'll give an example:

A girl I'm texting leaves me on read or takes forever to reply. If I do the same, she gets offended and ghosts me but if I'm being myself (which I am) and just answer in reasonable time and don't leave her on read, I'm seen as a pushover and nice guy. Also, if I tell her or tease her or call her out on this, I'm being reactive. What is the correct way to deal with this?

I used to follow trp in the past but I don't want to go that route anymore. I feel it should be fair and a level playing field
That happened to me before. Letting me on seen, and when I did the same, she get offended. Of course, this is not ideal, but you can work through.

What I did was just to laugh at it, dismiss it, telling her I m busy and couldn t respond at that point and so on.

Also, I was detached and seeing other girls too.

After she let me on seen, reengage her after 2-3 days, with some low investment line, and let her on seen.

Another tactic is "so, what changed the vibe between us?" to see if there really is an issue somewhere and I ll do my work on manage it.

Used both of them. Fucked the girl.

From my pov, you can pursue, she might be talking to another dude or whatever, as it is right now, but it shouldn t matter because you have other girls, and this is just text game.

Alpha13SC
 

StrayDog

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I guess, I'll just drop her and move on :/
Send a parting shot
I've had this happen several times .where a woman said she had too much going on with someone she was seeing and work and all, and now 6 months later we hooked up. I sent her a parting text and she ended up getting back to me when there was more room in her life.
The text looked something like this.

"Well (insert name), appreciate the honesty here. Totally get what it's like to have too much on the plate. Its been cool connecting. You know where to find me when you change you're mind, or things open up. Maybe there is still some chemistry here. All the best
-Stray Dog"

In some instances I've even been the one to reach out 6 months later (in a savvy way)
and her life had opened up and we ended up hooking up. Sometimes she wants to connect but its kind of in the back burner of her mind after that long. Since you sent a solid parting shot and your reapearrence is smooth she is nothing but excited to hear from you
 
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StrayDog

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Another approach if you want a more high risk high reward. Maybe kills your shot of reopening her later if you don't stick the landing
Tease her an having so many guys in her life. Be careful though. You don't want it to sound personal. Teasing via text can be a landmine. Especially if it's about here love life. Make it something fun where you are both the subkect of the joke. Something like "Managing a harem of dudes is definetely hard work, and I always end up being the one that rocks the boat too much. You're probably making the right call here"

and then a more brief parting shot "but hey for real though. It's fun connecting. Maybe there's still chemistry here when life evens out a bit more for you."

This approach can re stimulate her but also show that you are willing to walk away. She might even throw a flirty line. Giving you the opportunity to re hook her. Often times she will respond with something like "lol, yeah I'll keep you posted"
and you can leave it at that
 
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Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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That explains it!
Hi @Chase

I left the ball in her court and I feel she won't come back. This is the 3rd girl I sent 'Ball in your court' message since January this year and they don't get back.

I know I cant be chasing her if she keeps dodging the date but I have a few problems with this approach. Maybe I don't understand the rationale behind this. Do you mind explaining it please?

Problem I see with this is:
- If a girl was on the fence, I gave away the power and made it easier for her (like the girl above)
- She can get any guy she wants, why would she reach out to me?
- I feel really angry that I'm treated like a puppet and I'm ready to serve the princess at her beck and call
- Girls may feel slutty, if they have to reach-out

Is there an alternative to this approach instead of giving away my power?




Also, about your previous question:
This is pretty unusual. Is this a pattern you have happen to you or is it just this one girl?
If I answer a girl quickly and she takes forever or leaves me on read, I feel I'm disrespected. So, I try to do the same but it doesn't workout well. What is a good mindset to adopt?

So, yesterday after this girl told she's going to meet me today evening, I responded to her in 30 mins saying I can do that and if 5 PM is fine with her? She saw that message immediately and left me on read for 3 hours. That's when I double texted her with the above message
 
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Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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In some instances I've even been the one to reach out 6 months later (in a savvy way)
How do you reach out again? Wouldn't it come across as chasing/kiss-ass to reach out after appearing like you walked away in the past?
 

StrayDog

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@Shawn
One potential issue with your parting shots here could be the framing. In the example you provided you initially lush for a meet up again, which immediately outs you in a chasing position. You also end up highlighting how you are in that position by reiterating that its her call how it all goes down. That essentially you are not a collaborator here. And then you highlight again that the ball is in her court. Also, in your situation here ball is ALREADY in her court, so telling her that directly is just redundant and conveys that you are not really reading between the lines.

You generaly want your parting shots set some of the following frames
-you understand her position in a personal way
-you highlight what is fun and unique about her connection
-you highlight that while you are open to connecting you are not just going to wait around for her
All this gives her the following opportunities
-to see that you understand her reality
-to see one last time that you did indeed have a cool connection and you are a chill easy going dude
-to see that if she sits on this connection she may lose you

All depending on how your previous interactions went you can either run this one of two ways. The more hands off way where you keep things chill. Or you lean into the flirtation a bit. The first approach gives you a better shot of re opening her at a later date. The second approach gives you a more of a shot of re hooking her. Sometimes women do want a piece on the side, but they are not getting the vibe that you will just be fun easy going and hands off so they pull the "I don't have time for another connection right now" when really she does have time she just feels you would require too much it from her (I.e. you came across too boyfriend and not enough lover)

So those two different parting shots might look something like this

The more hands off approach:

"Well dang Jessica, there's always so many compelling things to chose from in life. Definitely relate to the whole having a full plate dilemma (showing understanding in a relatable way)
Its been cool exchanging wild travel stories though (recalling what was cool about your connection. Throw in an inside joke here if you can. Something just the two of you have shared together)
Chemistry in life is a funny thing. Open to connecting again when you got more space, granted the energy is still here (highlighting that yes you are still open to meeting but no you will not just hang around)

If you feel like you want to try to reopen this girl say two or three months later, I general send something non committal that reminds her of our connection but needs no response from her. Something that only adds value to her day and asks for nothing back. Often she will respond in a positive way.. Often times a fun photo of a shared interest, or a funny meme that is tailored to her can work wonders. Or just a quick observational quip that she will appreciate. If she responds well, don't jump the gun and be sure to mirror her investment levels. Don't text again if she doesn't respond. You really just want this re open to be like a little spark that reminds her. If something catches you slowly warm her up again. And you have to avoid coming across like you are just going to be that same old guy she didn't prioritize before. You have to be intruiging. A new sort of energy to your interaction.

Now for the second type. Leaning into it:

If you get the sense that she is actually just testing the waters to see how attached you are, wanting a fling but not sure how you fit into the picture, this can be a good option. I already posted this example in the thread but it stands as a good one so I will use it here again.

Her: I have too much things, I don't known that I can manage having another guy right now so on so on"
You "Managing a harem of dudes is definetely hard work, and I always end up being the one that rocks the boat too much. You're probably making the right call here" (few things here, you are challenging her frame that she is just too busy for a lot of guys. You are looping yourself into the joke so its not just longed square at her, and you are playfully showing you can accept nd respect her decision. You are also painting yourself as a lover, as well as putting a frame that you aren't just one of the other guys she has. Plus rock the boat is an innuendo. But remember, this is all subcommunication. You don't just tell her "I'm not like other guys)

You then make things a little more personable by throwing out a more sincere parting shot. I make this part brief and concise so she gets the point and sees I am out.

"but hey for real though. It's fun connecting (showing her I am sincere) Maybe there's still chemistry here when life evens out a bit more for you (showing her that I won't wait around and chemistry can fade)"

On this parting shot generaly won't reopen her as it can come across as "oh here's that horny dude trying to smash again", but you will be surprised at how often you hear from her again in two or three weeks, a month. And sometimes she will even hook again right away. In this case you got to do a little cat and mouse dance though. You don't want her to think she can just toss you aside and then pick you right up again.

When deciding wheather to use hands off or lean in approaches, examine the way the interaction has been run before hand to determine how to play it. The lean in method generally works best if the interactions have already been strongly flirtatious with a lover vibe.

I actually have two dates this week from reopening with these methods. Also got a pretty strong bite on another reopen text yesterday

Hope this helps

-Stray Dog
 
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Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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@Shawn
One potential issue with your parting shots here could be the framing. In the example you provided you initially lush for a meet up again, which immediately outs you in a chasing position.
If she sees that I'm online, doesn't it come across as lame/try-hard if I'm not responding to her text in a reasonable time?


If I answer a girl quickly and she takes forever or leaves me on read, I feel I'm disrespected. So, I try to do the same but it doesn't workout well. What is a good mindset to adopt?

So, yesterday after this girl told she's going to meet me today evening, I responded to her in 30 mins saying I can do that and if 5 PM is fine with her? She saw that message immediately and left me on read for 3 hours. That's when I double texted her with the above message
I also asked Chase about this in the previous message. Maybe you can answer?

Generally, I get a bit angry/irritated when she leaves me on read or takes forever to reply, specially when I'm not doing the same and if I do the same, I feel it comes across as butt-hurt


You also end up highlighting how you are in that position by reiterating that its her call how it all goes down. That essentially you are not a collaborator here. And then you highlight again that the ball is in her court. Also, in your situation here ball is ALREADY in her court, so telling her that directly is just redundant and conveys that you are not really reading between the lines.

You generaly want your parting shots set some of the following frames
-you understand her position in a personal way
-you highlight what is fun and unique about her connection
-you highlight that while you are open to connecting you are not just going to wait around for her
All this gives her the following opportunities
-to see that you understand her reality
-to see one last time that you did indeed have a cool connection and you are a chill easy going dude
-to see that if she sits on this connection she may lose you

All depending on how your previous interactions went you can either run this one of two ways. The more hands off way where you keep things chill. Or you lean into the flirtation a bit. The first approach gives you a better shot of re opening her at a later date. The second approach gives you a more of a shot of re hooking her. Sometimes women do want a piece on the side, but they are not getting the vibe that you will just be fun easy going and hands off so they pull the "I don't have time for another connection right now" when really she does have time she just feels you would require too much it from her (I.e. you came across too boyfriend and not enough lover)

So those two different parting shots might look something like this

The more hands off approach:

"Well dang Jessica, there's always so many compelling things to chose from in life. Definitely relate to the whole having a full plate dilemma (showing understanding in a relatable way)
Its been cool exchanging wild travel stories though (recalling what was cool about your connection. Throw in an inside joke here if you can. Something just the two of you have shared together)
Chemistry in life is a funny thing. Open to connecting again when you got more space, granted the energy is still here (highlighting that yes you are still open to meeting but no you will not just hang around)

If you feel like you want to try to reopen this girl say two or three months later, I general send something non committal that reminds her of our connection but needs no response from her. Something that only adds value to her day and asks for nothing back. Often she will respond in a positive way.. Often times a fun photo of a shared interest, or a funny meme that is tailored to her can work wonders. Or just a quick observational quip that she will appreciate. If she responds well, don't jump the gun and be sure to mirror her investment levels. Don't text again if she doesn't respond. You really just want this re open to be like a little spark that reminds her. If something catches you slowly warm her up again. And you have to avoid coming across like you are just going to be that same old guy she didn't prioritize before. You have to be intruiging. A new sort of energy to your interaction.
I see your point & I think this approach for me is more congruent than the second one since the second one if perceived wrongly, may come across as butt-hurt. Also, the innuendo there may be a bit complex to decipher. Thanks for the first one & mindset

The lean in method generally works best if the interactions have already been strongly flirtatious with a lover vibe.
Ya that makes sense
 

StrayDog

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If she sees that I'm online, doesn't it come across as lame/try-hard if I'm not responding to her text in a reasonable time?
For one, she already came clean about why she was doing what she did, as well as told you she wasn't going to make space for you in her world right now. In light of that leaving her on read is whatever. In general though it is fine to leave a woman on read for a little while. It should not be expected that you are at her beck and call and leaving a woman on read can even be used strategically to build intrigue. If she is at the point where she is checking to see if you are online or not you are already in an advantageous position. As long as your responses are well timed you should be fine, and sometimes well timed is allowing a little space for tension. But again, in this situation getting back to her the next day or something with a parting shot is fine, and is probably the more attractive way to go about it. Shows that you kind of just take it in stride.

All that being said, the real issue here is that you pushed for a meet up when she already said she was not interested. That's what conveys chasing and a level of not reading between the lines
Generally, I get a bit angry/irritated when she leaves me on read or takes forever to reply, specially when I'm not doing the same and if I do the same, I feel it comes across as butt-hurt
I found that what has worked for me with this is just to have a strong life outside of each individual woman I am chatting up. I get lost in hobbies, friends, projects, errands, and also other women. Makes it easy to match one individual woman's investment level. If it's been a minute since I heard from her I usually don't even realize it until I am kind of going through my texts and I am thinking to myself "Oh yeah, we had a thing going". If it makes sense to do so I might ping her again to get things going. Otherwise, girls got to stay relevant if she is gonna stay in the mix.

Also context helps a lot. You mentioned that you felt the "lean in" example might come across as butt hurt. and that's true. it could. But say another person used that response and already had a super strong lover frame and the interaction had a lot of that sort of flirtatious energy. It will be interpreted through that lenses and come across as a calibrated flirt. If you keep running into scenarios where it seems like women are giving you feedback that you seem reactive, there is a pattern to be examined and changed there. If you have that precedence with them, then everything you do will be read through that lens. Also, a large part of how we think we will come across is inaccurate to the other persons perceived reality. That is part of what makes texting such a mine field. The communication is largely dry and impersonal and context and tone are very abstracted. That is why it is generally advised to keep texting lean.
 
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Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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All that being said, the real issue here is that you pushed for a meet up when she already said she was not interested. That's what conveys chasing and a level of not reading between the lines
No, my message flow was different from what you think, I guess. So, I had sent her a date request text on Monday evening which she hadn't seen or responded to and yesterday evening I saw her again near the train station and she was in a rush. She responded to my text after 5 mins she met me and asked if we can meet today evening. I replied within 30 mins and asked if 5 PM suits her and then she left me on read for nearly 3 hrs and I felt disrespected and got angry and double-texted her saying "if she cant do today, we can meet on Thursday since I have a tentative plan" and she said "No, she cant do on Thursday". So, I texted asking if anything is bothering her. I actually did 2 mistakes:
1. Double-texting after she left me on read for 3 hours. But I didn't want to appear like she can answer whenever she wants and come across as chasing
2. In my parting text, I could've softened a bit and probably should've sent that today

I found that what has worked for me with this is just to have a strong life outside of each individual woman I am chatting up. I get lost in hobbies, friends, projects, errands, and also other women. Makes it easy to match one individual woman's investment level. If it's been a minute since I heard from her I usually don't even realize it until I am kind of going through my texts and I am thinking to myself "Oh yeah, we had a thing going". If it makes sense to do so I might ping her again to get things going. Otherwise, girls got to stay relevant if she is gonna stay in the mix.
Yeah, I think I should stop pickup for sometime. I'm burning myself out in the past few months with so many rejections, flakes and just grinding and grinding all the time and thinking of girls all the time
 
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Skills

Tribal Elder
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I'm not sure how to deal with this!?!
Instead of explaining what I mean, I'll give an example:

A girl I'm texting leaves me on read or takes forever to reply. If I do the same, she gets offended and ghosts me but if I'm being myself (which I am) and just answer in reasonable time and don't leave her on read, I'm seen as a pushover and nice guy. Also, if I tell her or tease her or call her out on this, I'm being reactive. What is the correct way to deal with this?

I used to follow trp in the past but I don't want to go that route anymore. I feel it should be fair and a level playing field
Avoid getting into these scenarios in the first place....try not to be a nice guy is needy in itself, this is a common problem with reform nice guys... leave on read meaning Instagram?
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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No, my message flow was different from what you think, I guess. So, I had sent her a date request text on Monday evening which she hadn't seen or responded to and yesterday evening I saw her again near the train station and she was in a rush. She responded to my text after 5 mins she met me and asked if we can meet today evening. I replied within 30 mins and asked if 5 PM suits her and then she left me on read for nearly 3 hrs and I felt disrespected and got angry and double-texted her saying "if she cant do today, we can meet on Thursday since I have a tentative plan" and she said "No, she cant do on Thursday". So, I texted asking if anything is bothering her. I actually did 2 mistakes:
1. Double-texting after she left me on read for 3 hours. But I didn't want to appear like she can answer whenever she wants and come across as chasing
2. In my parting text, I could've softened a bit and probably should've sent that today


Yeah, I think I should stop pickup for sometime. I'm burning myself out in the past few months with so many rejections, flakes and just grinding and grinding all the time and thinking of girls all the time
The answer is not to abandon but change strategies
 
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