Can y’all help me past this sticking point!?

[Hue]

Sub,

First I just wanna say that you're getting a lot of different flows of advice right now, which is distracting. It's like trying to keep a steady convo in a room full of people trying to talk to you.


That said, everyone is trying to help you. Please don't dismiss their opinions.


I'm going to keep it simple and continue the conversation we have been having.

So I just read it, and see these girls give you something to work with. I tried doing texting and it wasn’t leading anywhere because the chick wasn’t giving me much to work with. Either the convos are platonic or a chick will take like 2 days to respond.

It seems it’s usually the woman who makes the convo keep going. I always try to ask them out someway.

There’s this one chick I ain’t talk to for a minute that I could never get on the phone and our convos were platonic af.

Seems all I can do is text her, so I’ll give it a shot and try to get to know her from text.

Girls give you something to work with if they actually liked you from meeting you. They essentially sort guys who are texting them based off of who is more of a priority, while keeping all the guys as options (or orbiters).

So, the better your fundamentals (and that means ALL levels of fundamentals, not just looks), the better your approach, the smoother your delivery, the larger IMPACT you have on her, and the higher a priority you are for her to pay attention to.


Just because a girl starts the conversation platonic doesn't mean you can't sort it out into something more. Try angling questions that give her both specificity and room to operate. Asking about a particular thing that was going on during your approach, or that you had talked about during your approach, while keeping the question somewhat open ended works.

You met her at jazz night at some bar / event, or something. After a few opening texts (perhaps what you're calling platonic, but you still haven't actually taken the time to type your texts) maybe something like:

"Loved the vibe that [band] brought.. great energy. You usually hang around music venues or was this new to you?"

That can turn into 3-5 texts about whatever subject you have to actually create some substance with texting, then you can turn it into a more direct approach.


Say she does like music:

"That's dope. You ever try [music venue]? Had a total blast last time I checked their shows out, we should grab a drink there"

Say she doesn't usually do the music venue scene:

"Ah gotcha. Well hey if you're open to trying new shit, I love this venue down at [area], they've got plenty of talent. Let's grab a drink there some time next week (= ".



If she's down, then it's mostly just logistics from there. Plenty on that if you read GC.

After things are set, an easy, "sounds great [girl] (= talk with you then", works just fine.


1). Ping her / jump into conversation (based on you and her background, assuming you have one (?) )
2). Get some exchange going in text conversation by bringing up HER interests
3). Rope whatever topic you have going for you into doing something + lead the texting to you two meeting
4). Set up the date
5). Fade to black


Last point I'll add is kinda linking to what I skimmed off of other replies. Some girls will use you as an orbiter. It's a fact of life. You seem to reject invitations from girls to hang out though, across the board. Why not take her invitation, and see where it goes? Sure, maybe she wants to use you as some dude by her side at the club, or at some party - could be true.

Flip it on that bitch and use her as preselection, if after you arrive that's what it appears to be!

Just because a girl isn't giving you much right NOW, doesn't mean she won't give it to you LATER, if you play the right cards.


Likewise, just because your tactics aren't working now, doesn't mean that they won't later. You have to refine your craft. A model of how to do a certain thing doesn't actually even work until YOU make it YOUR model.

I'm not Chase. I'm not Hector, Franco, Richard, Nick, or Alek. Yet, I use all of their methods - in my own way. The most important thing, as I mentioned, is understanding woman. Once you make a focused effort to ask WHY methods exist in first place, and their place in female psychology, then you are operating within a system that builds progress.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Sub,

First I just wanna say that you're getting a lot of different flows of advice right now, which is distracting. It's like trying to keep a steady convo in a room full of people trying to talk to you.


That said, everyone is trying to help you. Please don't dismiss their opinions.


I'm going to keep it simple and continue the conversation we have been having.

So I just read it, and see these girls give you something to work with. I tried doing texting and it wasn’t leading anywhere because the chick wasn’t giving me much to work with. Either the convos are platonic or a chick will take like 2 days to respond.

It seems it’s usually the woman who makes the convo keep going. I always try to ask them out someway.

There’s this one chick I ain’t talk to for a minute that I could never get on the phone and our convos were platonic af.

Seems all I can do is text her, so I’ll give it a shot and try to get to know her from text.

Girls give you something to work with if they actually liked you from meeting you. They essentially sort guys who are texting them based off of who is more of a priority, while keeping all the guys as options (or orbiters).

So, the better your fundamentals (and that means ALL levels of fundamentals, not just looks), the better your approach, the smoother your delivery, the larger IMPACT you have on her, and the higher a priority you are for her to pay attention to.


Just because a girl starts the conversation platonic doesn't mean you can't sort it out into something more. Try angling questions that give her both specificity and room to operate. Asking about a particular thing that was going on during your approach, or that you had talked about during your approach, while keeping the question somewhat open ended works.

You met her at jazz night at some bar / event, or something. After a few opening texts (perhaps what you're calling platonic, but you still haven't actually taken the time to type your texts) maybe something like:

"Loved the vibe that [band] brought.. great energy. You usually hang around music venues or was this new to you?"

That can turn into 3-5 texts about whatever subject you have to actually create some substance with texting, then you can turn it into a more direct approach.


Say she does like music:

"That's dope. You ever try [music venue]? Had a total blast last time I checked their shows out, we should grab a drink there"

Say she doesn't usually do the music venue scene:

"Ah gotcha. Well hey if you're open to trying new shit, I love this venue down at [area], they've got plenty of talent. Let's grab a drink there some time next week (= ".



If she's down, then it's mostly just logistics from there. Plenty on that if you read GC.

After things are set, an easy, "sounds great [girl] (= talk with you then", works just fine.


1). Ping her / jump into conversation (based on you and her background, assuming you have one (?) )
2). Get some exchange going in text conversation by bringing up HER interests
3). Rope whatever topic you have going for you into doing something + lead the texting to you two meeting
4). Set up the date
5). Fade to black


Last point I'll add is kinda linking to what I skimmed off of other replies. Some girls will use you as an orbiter. It's a fact of life. You seem to reject invitations from girls to hang out though, across the board. Why not take her invitation, and see where it goes? Sure, maybe she wants to use you as some dude by her side at the club, or at some party - could be true.

Flip it on that bitch and use her as preselection, if after you arrive that's what it appears to be!

Just because a girl isn't giving you much right NOW, doesn't mean she won't give it to you LATER, if you play the right cards.


Likewise, just because your tactics aren't working now, doesn't mean that they won't later. You have to refine your craft. A model of how to do a certain thing doesn't actually even work until YOU make it YOUR model.

I'm not Chase. I'm not Hector, Franco, Richard, Nick, or Alek. Yet, I use all of their methods - in my own way. The most important thing, as I mentioned, is understanding woman. Once you make a focused effort to ask WHY methods exist in first place, and their place in female psychology, then you are operating within a system that builds progress.

Thanks for the detailed response Hue,

I’m really happy everyone is chiming in here trying to help me, it really is keeping me going. I wasn’t even going to make a thread because I didn’t know if anyone would read it or not, but a lot did and helped a lot, I’m very grateful for that.

I know it’s a lot of advice and I definitely won’t dismiss anyone’s opinions at all.

Yeah I should have went out with that one girl who invited me out. Does it make me look like a loser if I came alone? I’ve been going out alone all the time for the past few years.


Tbh most of my girls now are from apps, I haven’t seen many girls to approach when I’m out and I don’t go out a lot for day game. I go out for night game when I can, but it gets expensive.

After seeing so many success stories on here with apps, I figured why not? So I get all these matches, but they go no where and get me extremely frustrated af.

I don’t like how women really think they are the shit and can just treat men how they want. I mean I know you can’t curse them out or anything else, but they wonder why guys go crazy on them. They play dumb and act like a guy is acting angry because he’s crazy, no bitch!! He’s acting crazy because you’re toying with his emotions!!

That said, I don’t really care about these women to make me that angry, it annoys me yes, but I’m not going to lose sleep off of these sluts.

If I could, I would tell them about their flaws in a minute and bring that confidence down some, but still that’s wasted energy on a person who is essentially useless to me.

The past few weeks I have been out through a lot emotionally because I really liked this chick and went through a lot of Bullshit that I never went through before ever.

So that has me fucked up a little, and I feel down about myself.

But I can’t let these sluts win!! I can’t!! I just have to be colder than they are, more aloof than they are. I always found it funny when a girl says “why do women always mess it up for other women?” Because y’all women do dumb ass shit.

It’s ok though, I just won’t take them seriously at all, but some success has got to give, I need a consistent girl for pussy to keep me sane, and I fucked up because I got out the game when I had this one chick I was dealing with for years.

With that chick I should have even went harder with dating because I at least had ass at home.

I’m ranting like shit, but I’ve been going through some self esteem issues with women as of late.

Thanks again for your replies and everyone else’s replies, y’all keep me sane and I’m happy I can talk to y’all.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dude, tons of negativity from your side. Women are not the "enemy". So my first assumption about you being online was right. Just realise that on dating apps there are TONS of validation seekers and don't expect normal behaviour from them. A lot of time when I see these app girls in real life they have sub par looks, online is the only place where they can behave like divas. I have seen online corrupt nice girls more often than not and sometimes they try diva behaviour in real life only to be put in place by reality or yours truly.

Your beating yourself up for the wrong reasons. It's like claiming people are not trustworthy because you only visit prisons!

Your problem is not game, your problem is a sub par target group. Also getting "investment" online is more like giving attention.

Get out of those apps pronto

 

[Sub-Zero]

Dude, tons of negativity from your side. Women are not the "enemy". So my first assumption about you being online was right. Just realise that on dating apps there are TONS of validation seekers and don't expect normal behaviour from them. A lot of time when I see these app girls in real life they have sub par looks, online is the only place where they can behave like divas. I have seen online corrupt nice girls more often than not and sometimes they try diva behaviour in real life only to be put in place by reality or yours truly.

Your beating yourself up for the wrong reasons. It's like claiming people are not trustworthy because you only visit prisons!

Your problem is not game, your problem is a sub par target group. Also getting "investment" online is more like giving attention.

Get out of those apps pronto

I don’t get it though, there’s guys on here that got a lot of quick easy lays off apps, idk wtf I’m doing wrong.

Tbh I only started using apps for a month. My main sticking points was night game and a little social circle.

So the only successful avenue would be day game for me? I want to be good in all avenues of getting women.

I can see though that a lot of these online women are attention whores, it’s sad tbh. Like you can’t go outside like a normal person and get attention there? Don’t you have social media? You need attention that bad to hop on apps too? Haha wtf

Women aren’t the “enemy” per-se, but they sure aren’t the ally.

Not tryna be negative at all, but dealing with this on a consistent basis is maddening, I think anyone would have cracked by now.

The positives I can take from this is to just not take women seriously at all and it helps me to become colder, there was actually a girl I wanted from online that was fine to me, I only wanted that chick and didn’t care about the rest.

Ultimate attention whore, she seen that I was about meeting up so she went super ghost on me.

It’s a shame because I had nothing but good thoughts about her, I wanted her to be more than a quick lay.

But it reminded me I have to really be cold and aloof to women because me being genuine really makes me feel weak, you and be nice to these women at all.

Anyway, I don’t know how I can really get to my goals with day game if sleeping with a great amount of women quickly, but I guess that’s my only option at all. Hopefully things work out.

 

[Hue]

I don’t like how women really think they are the shit and can just treat men how they want. I mean I know you can’t curse them out or anything else, but they wonder why guys go crazy on them. They play dumb and act like a guy is acting angry because he’s crazy, no bitch!! He’s acting crazy because you’re toying with his emotions!!

Most guys are going to show their lack of security in themselves and their lack of abundance. Your goal is to NOT be most guys. That's why you read about trying to remain independent of outcome.


She's being a bitch? Ha! Silly girl.. acting all aloof to try and make guys chase them harder.

She's not interested? Ah, okay. I'll go find someone else that's interested.

She's playing games? That's alright - I don't play games. Have fun with that.


Why do you think girls act like aloof bitches?

Most of them either got hurt by guys for giving too much investment themselves to guys that weren't going to reciprocate it. They don't want to get hurt again, so they put up a bitch shield. It's a defense mechanism. Just like you're getting mad at them for acting this way, most woman have gotten just as mad and upset about their own relationship hardships and frustrations. But it's important to LEARN from your emotions, and listen to them.

You're upset because these women aren't giving you validation - that is the root of the emotion. Start there.


To another point, real bad bitches are bitches to serve a different kind of defense mechanism.

Many of them know that if they give guys any investment, needy, chasy guys are going to take an ounce of investment and turn it into three tons in their heads. They're bitches so that those types of guys fuck off. Listen to Hector in this video.


Whether their aloofness is an act, or you have a boneified bad bitch in front of you, they both have a sweet, tender core if you can get to it. I feel from your posts that you don't believe this, but it exists in everyone.

But I can’t let these sluts win!! I can’t!! I just have to be colder than they are, more aloof than they are.

You're letting them win by getting this upset. Being colder and more bitter than they are isn't going to help you man.

Or tell me, how is that going for you?

I always found it funny when a girl says “why do women always mess it up for other women?” Because y’all women do dumb ass shit.

If you write off woman's behaviors as "dumb ass shit" without attempting to really understand them you'll never get anywhere man. Just because you don't find a person's reason a good reason or a logical reason doesn't negate the fact that they, as a human being, came to the conclusions they did, and acted on those conclusions.

What if I just wrote off your sticking point as some guy on the boards saying dumb ass shit? Why bother? This dumbfuck will never get it.

Of course I don't do that, because I understand your frustrations and would love nothing more than for you to overcome them. I want to deliver you to a place you want to be.

Same goes with woman. They want a lot of the same things men do in relationships (consistent and good sex, someone that cares about them, someone who KNOWS what they want and WHY, and is able to navigate their heads appropriately).

Women Are Not Logical? Wrong!

It’s ok though, I just won’t take them seriously at all, but some success has got to give, I need a consistent girl for pussy to keep me sane, and I fucked up because I got out the game when I had this one chick I was dealing with for years.

Part of learning game is fucking up again and again and again. Some of those fuck ups hurt more than others. But they are not failures. When people try to strangle an outcome into happening, it is that very attempt to force the outcome, and the need for something to take place that stops them from achieving that outcome.

It's hard to let go sometimes, I get it.

But you can let go of these emotions man - you've got plenty of women in your future.

Tbh most of my girls now are from apps, I haven’t seen many girls to approach when I’m out and I don’t go out a lot for day game. I go out for night game when I can, but it gets expensive.

Here are two videos from Hector about Tinder. I highly recommend the first one in particular:

Is Tinder Worth It?

How to Get Laid on Tinder with Two Texts

Also, I highly recommend reading posts by Ambiance if you want to succeed on dating apps. The dude has very good fundamentals and a pretty flirty, devil may care attitude in his LR's.

If you want to succeed in other areas of game, you have to put work in. Either way, all of the areas require a multifaceted approach and improvement in several areas.



Open up that mind bro.

 

[Sub-Zero]

I don’t like how women really think they are the shit and can just treat men how they want. I mean I know you can’t curse them out or anything else, but they wonder why guys go crazy on them. They play dumb and act like a guy is acting angry because he’s crazy, no bitch!! He’s acting crazy because you’re toying with his emotions!!

Most guys are going to show their lack of security in themselves and their lack of abundance. Your goal is to NOT be most guys. That's why you read about trying to remain independent of outcome.


She's being a bitch? Ha! Silly girl.. acting all aloof to try and make guys chase them harder.

She's not interested? Ah, okay. I'll go find someone else that's interested.

She's playing games? That's alright - I don't play games. Have fun with that.


Why do you think girls act like aloof bitches?

Most of them either got hurt by guys for giving too much investment themselves to guys that weren't going to reciprocate it. They don't want to get hurt again, so they put up a bitch shield. It's a defense mechanism. Just like you're getting mad at them for acting this way, most woman have gotten just as mad and upset about their own relationship hardships and frustrations. But it's important to LEARN from your emotions, and listen to them.

You're upset because these women aren't giving you validation - that is the root of the emotion. Start there.


To another point, real bad bitches are bitches to serve a different kind of defense mechanism.

Many of them know that if they give guys any investment, needy, chasy guys are going to take an ounce of investment and turn it into three tons in their heads. They're bitches so that those types of guys fuck off. Listen to Hector in this video.


Whether their aloofness is an act, or you have a boneified bad bitch in front of you, they both have a sweet, tender core if you can get to it. I feel from your posts that you don't believe this, but it exists in everyone.

But I can’t let these sluts win!! I can’t!! I just have to be colder than they are, more aloof than they are.

You're letting them win by getting this upset. Being colder and more bitter than they are isn't going to help you man.

Or tell me, how is that going for you?

I always found it funny when a girl says “why do women always mess it up for other women?” Because y’all women do dumb ass shit.

If you write off woman's behaviors as "dumb ass shit" without attempting to really understand them you'll never get anywhere man. Just because you don't find a person's reason a good reason or a logical reason doesn't negate the fact that they, as a human being, came to the conclusions they did, and acted on those conclusions.

What if I just wrote off your sticking point as some guy on the boards saying dumb ass shit? Why bother? This dumbfuck will never get it.

Of course I don't do that, because I understand your frustrations and would love nothing more than for you to overcome them. I want to deliver you to a place you want to be.

Same goes with woman. They want a lot of the same things men do in relationships (consistent and good sex, someone that cares about them, someone who KNOWS what they want and WHY, and is able to navigate their heads appropriately).

Women Are Not Logical? Wrong!

It’s ok though, I just won’t take them seriously at all, but some success has got to give, I need a consistent girl for pussy to keep me sane, and I fucked up because I got out the game when I had this one chick I was dealing with for years.

Part of learning game is fucking up again and again and again. Some of those fuck ups hurt more than others. But they are not failures. When people try to strangle an outcome into happening, it is that very attempt to force the outcome, and the need for something to take place that stops them from achieving that outcome.

It's hard to let go sometimes, I get it.

But you can let go of these emotions man - you've got plenty of women in your future.

Tbh most of my girls now are from apps, I haven’t seen many girls to approach when I’m out and I don’t go out a lot for day game. I go out for night game when I can, but it gets expensive.

Here are two videos from Hector about Tinder. I highly recommend the first one in particular:

Is Tinder Worth It?

How to Get Laid on Tinder with Two Texts

Also, I highly recommend reading posts by Ambiance if you want to succeed on dating apps. The dude has very good fundamentals and a pretty flirty, devil may care attitude in his LR's.

If you want to succeed in other areas of game, you have to put work in. Either way, all of the areas require a multifaceted approach and improvement in several areas.



Open up that mind bro.

Thanks for the encouraging words Hue!!

It’s extremely hard for me to see why women behave the way they do, like I’m trying but it makes no sense to me at all.

I still can’t get over this girl ghosting me and I liked her a lot. I have so many messages left with no response from women and they are the ones that messaged me first or matched with me first. Just a bunch of empty matches.

Shit got me so mad that I stayed in the bed all day sleeping to escape from the stress I’m dealing with.

I’m at the point where I’m thinking if a girl isn’t jumping for me, I won’t get her. I can’t seduce any women, they need to be 100% into me. Maybe this pick up life isn’t for me it isn’t in the plans. No matter what I’m a failure and loser.

I try giving women the benefit of the doubt and see their side, but they still act like bitches.

The girl that I liked flakes and did a lot of dumb shit, I let slide, she stilled showed enough interest to make me talk to her, set up a date, then she went straight ghost on me to never talk again.

And this chick was the one chasing me, I tried to move fast, this is what I mean by games, I just can’t see any logic on why anyone would do this.

I would love to understand why women do the things they do, but they don’t give you anything to work with. Ghosting on you, ignoring you when you try to move things forward does not help.

I can’t help but feel they just want an ego boost to feed their egos. I’m sure they get off not giving a guy they find attractive any play. I know it feeds their egos, down right sad.

When I say all these things about them, that’s how I understand them. I can’t find a logical nice way to see why women act this way towards me, except to try to hurt me and feed their egos. It gets them off probably because other handsome men have hurt them or they just are shitty people. I don’t see any good in these women who try to play men.

I can try to see the good side with them, but it still doesn’t help me because they don’t even give me a chance to really get to know them at all, they just do the little attention thing and dip.

I’m not saying this out of bitterness, but I don’t see why they would act like this all the time.

I’m going to watch the videos you sent me and read about that ambiance guy.

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Mr.Rob]

I’m at the point where I’m thinking if a girl isn’t jumping for me, I won’t get her. I can’t seduce any women, they need to be 100% into me. Maybe this pick up life isn’t for me it isn’t in the plans. No matter what I’m a failure and loser.

You havent even given pickup a sufficient time period. You started what two months ago? And your still not meeting enough women to fill the pipeline up Im assuming (how many girls you approach/meet per week?)

Hang in there. It took me 11 months going out 3x per week before I got my first lay. Some guys have a lot more work cut out for them than others.

When I say all these things about them, that’s how I understand them. I can’t find a logical nice way to see why women act this way towards me, except to try to hurt me and feed their egos.

Women arent evil. You are just fucking up and losing the girl. Take some responsibility and the "women are evil bitches" goes straight out the window. You are fucking up somewhere (maybe before you even get there #).

It would be a big help if you posted detailed field reports and text messages so we could help you point out where your going wrong. There prob a ton of stuff your messing up on that you have no idea about.

Your making strides since beginning of year and even your mindset has improved more positive. Keep striving man your on the right track.

 

[DarkKnight]

To be honest Sub Zero I am surprised about the super positive stories about apps as well. Actually tried tinder again for 2 weeks, just in case, but the results (for me) is obvious despite having a larger "reach", results are far less. Despite the fact that I can attract lots of girls during a normal weekday! I believe that if online game is not being used as a supplement instead of a main funnel it can wreck your confidence. Also I have a big feeling that lots of girls on apps are not as single as they make themselves out to be. More than once I have seen taken girls on the app!

Anyway, best of luck, just try not to be bitter. It's giving people too much power

 

[naturalmikey]

Sounds like inner game issue. You feel like you can't so you can't.