Can you be in love and non-needy? When try monogamy?

[Carpe-DM]

Hey guys- quick background
1) I'm a put together guy and 36 years old. Fairly successful, good sense of humor, athletic, adventurous, well-traveled...all that. Good fundamentals
2) Married my highschool girlfriend. I was naive and inexperienced. She was a buddy, but not a partner or a lover. Thought I brought the neglect on myself and every time I tried harder, she tried less. It killed my self esteem and just thought I'd tough it out for life. I was depressed all the time.
2) Went on vacation solo for the first time ever and was immediately happier. On my way back home to the airport, I encountered one of the most beautiful girls I'd ever seen. She was also the most intelligent, ambitious, friendly and very adventurous....and she was totally into me. She also lives 5000 miles away and isn't going anywhere do to a very successful business there. This possibility that I had options beyond my dreams changed my perspective and my self esteem. However, she met all the criteria on how to fall in love from Chases recent article

You feel like is out of your league
You can't replicate how you ended up together with
You believe you can never find a superior option to
You aren't in control of the relationship with

Needless to say I was head over heels in love. I don't think I could go 5 minutes without thinking about her. EVERYTHING about life was brighter and happier...the lyrics to songs, colors, tastes...I felt I was walking on air. It was like a drug, and just as addictive. She was an escape plan to solve all my problems and the source of all my happiness. I separated from my wife and met up with this girl. I didn't know shit about women and seduction. I was nervous beyond belief- not the relaxed guy she'd met. I was a weak, super-needy placating little bitch. I made ever mistake in the book and totally blew it with her, and I was devastated. Nevertheless, I knew I'd be happier divorced and had a lot to work with. I got divorced, got some therapy and focused on becoming good with women so I wouldn't make the same mistakes next time I met someone amazing.

Turns out I was a fast learner and quickly became very good with women. I had girls who I could have a much better relationship with than my ex totally falling for me left and right, and my sex life became absolutely amazing. I forced myself to date multiple women so I wouldn't fall straight into a relationship like I did with my wife. Uncomfortable at first, but then addicting. This has been going on for about 14 months. Recently started dating a 22 year old who's an animal in bed and we want to try to arrange a 3some (a fantasy I want to fulfill before I settle down)

A couple months ago though, I met a girl who checked all the right boxes and we wound up spending all our days off together, even going on backpacking trips and vacations. She's a bit of a tomboy, elegantly beautiful, great in bed, independent and successful, funny...the whole package except for one thing; we tend to not get lost in conversation like a couple other girls I've dated. I really like her and see myself eventually ending up with her, but she wants exclusivity now, after about 2.5 months.

However, I don't have the same sensations as I did when I was in love last time...and after reading Chases list I don't think I will...maybe not in anyone.

She's great, but we both have a lot to offer. Same league.
I met her the same way I've met many women. She's just better
The foreign girl I met would be hypothetically a superior option
Except for this ultimatum, I am in control

That said, this woman is fantastic. I enjoy my promiscuous lifestyle, but that's unfortunately a deal-breaker for this one. I'm afraid to fall back into a relationship. And lastly, I don't have that out of control head-over-heels feeling like before because I'm in control for the most part. I do miss that feeling, but don't think I'll get it again now that I'm not a needy little pussy- I'm a man with options. She is almost certainly in love with me and investing...planning trips...introducing me to friends...even helping me paint my room. I think I may've spoiled it a bit by not coming out with an enthusiastic YES! when exclusivity came up, saying I still have a FWB.

So, is it possible to be in love in a healthy relationship where you're not the needy one? What does it feel like? Also, how do I know when I'm ready to try monogamy again? I don't feel done fooling around, but I feel I'm getting close. Getting good with women has taken the vast majority of my free time for quite a while. I love doing it, but should need to focus on other areas of self-improvement like starting a business. Most of all, women like this are few and far between. I spend all my days off with her and, although I continue to date, it feels like a bit of a chore (beyond the awesome sex) when I have this girl around. I'm less interested in other women now

Better yet, I understand the men in a lot of romance novels are "Byronic heroes"...close to perfect, but with some weakness or flaw that prevents them from being together that the woman has to fix, that only she could do. Is there any way I can use this to my advantage?

 

[Chase]

Carpe,

Welcome to the boards! Pretty big metamorphosis you went through from your first marriage down to today. Seems like you're largely in pretty good shape at this point. With regard to your questions:

So, is it possible to be in love in a healthy relationship where you're not the needy one? What does it feel like? Also, how do I know when I'm ready to try monogamy again? I don't feel done fooling around, but I feel I'm getting close. Getting good with women has taken the vast majority of my free time for quite a while. I love doing it, but should need to focus on other areas of self-improvement like starting a business. Most of all, women like this are few and far between. I spend all my days off with her and, although I continue to date, it feels like a bit of a chore (beyond the awesome sex) when I have this girl around. I'm less interested in other women now

You can feel a little in-love (i.e., not just what I call "old love", but really some degree of passionate romance), and while it's not the wild, out-of-control sensation like you experienced with the girl from the airport, it's more a kind of admiring thoughtfulness plus a bit of excitement - sort of along the lines of you look at / think about her and think, "Wow, this girl's actually really pretty amazing... Smart, beautiful, lots of fun, good personality, not a downer... I'm doing pretty well for myself these days. Old me would've been REALLY nervous around her!" along with a bit of warmth / energy. There's also the "sex is still really amazing" and you don't mind spending time with her after sex is over. If you're at a point in life where the idea of having children doesn't totally freak you out, you can imagine finding out you've made her pregnant and you taking it in stride or maybe even having it put a smile on your face.

As for how you know you're ready for it... it sounds like you're at the point right now where you don't NEED any more success to get to know women more or clear away any lingering self-doubt, and you're experienced enough that you'll be able to run your relationships properly, as well as deal with it calmly and correctly if bad stuff happens or things blow up. Experience-wise, you're probably ready.

It also sounds like you're right around the point you'd want to be at desire-wise; typically, you want to do something just a little before you feel like you need to do it - so if, for instance, a more settled, monogamous relationship is something you can see yourself really wanting a good deal in the future, and/or the bachelor's lifestyle of chasing tail is something you can see growing old very near on the horizon, it's better to pre-empt these a bit so you can change courses on your own terms, instead of some kind of emotional urgency or exhaustion pushing you to (in which case, you're more likely to make a rash decision you're less in-control of).

I'd say, by the sound of things, you're probably at the point you need to be at to think about making a transition like this... and the fact that you're asking probably also indicates you sense that as well, and just want to clear up any last fog still hanging around.

Better yet, I understand the men in a lot of romance novels are "Byronic heroes"...close to perfect, but with some weakness or flaw that prevents them from being together that the woman has to fix, that only she could do. Is there any way I can use this to my advantage?

As a matter of fact, there's an article on just this topic on the site: How to Be Vulnerable, Enchanting, and Alluring to Women - delves quite a bit into Byronic traits, how the Byronic hero works to intrigue women so much, and even some of the research on how women respond to men displaying Byronic personality traits and flaws.

Chase

 

[Carpe-DM]

(Apologies on the weird formatting. I can't access the boards from work, so emailed this to my phone and it pasted in like this)

Thanks for the reply, Chase. It has been a big metamorphosis; I'm a
completely different man and so much happier. However, after spending
so many years feeling like I was flawed and unwanted, and my ex is the
only one who was able to tolerate me, I have been getting a lot of
external-validation from having many great women falling for me, most of
whom would have me back in a heartbeat. I'm also afraid of putting all
my investment into one. Perhaps you're right though and I have had
sufficient success to have the confidence to leave her and know I'll
land on my feet.

I do have that admiring thoughtfulness + some excitement with this girl.
You actually nailed it; when I look over at her I DO think "Score- I'm
doing pretty well for myself" and the old me probably would've been
nervous, or thought she was out of my league. She's great in bed
largely from having a super-sensitive vagina. I can barely touch it
with my fingers without her becoming over stimulated, and all I have to
do is thrust away and she cums her brains out. Relatively adventurous,
too, although I wish her sex-drive were just slightly higher.

The 22 year old FWB I'm also seeing basically has no boundaries in bed-
I can do anything I want, so she's probably the best lover I've had.
Good person and intelligent, but our only common interest is the sex.
Last night she mentioned a friend who sounds like she'd be a shoe-in for
having a threesome, and she's going to talk to her this weekend. If so,
hopefully something can be arranged next week. I'm so close to
fulfilling that fantasy, and it is something I'd regret passing up.
Pulling this off, in my mind, is like a black-belt in seduction. It's something most guys have fantasized about but few have pulled off.

I probably need to say something about exclusivity with the girl I'm
getting serious with this weekend though. She's not going to be into me
fucking other women. Like most women, sex and emotions are necessarily
heavily intertwined, while I can enjoy sex with or without the emotional
component.

Do you have any clever ideas on how I can keep her around and still pull
off my threesome? I'm not comfortable lying, but I suppose I could tell
a white lie in this case (white in that her fear is me not taking her
seriously and investing in other women, when that's not the case). Game
over if I get caught though, and I'd still feel bad about lying to her.
I need a way to convince her that I'm serious, no longer looking to get
serious with anyone else, and that I'll stop seeing my FWB shortly. You
seem to be great at affecting women's emotions to achieve your desired
outcome, Chase. What would you do?

 

[Carpe-DM]

I was super close to closing the threesome deal, but I think I'm falling for this girl. We've become pretty close and I felt just a little like I was cheating when I was with other women. She's totally in love, and went cold that I was procrastinating on something exclusive. It felt really bad to make her feel bad, so I decided to try monogamy. I slept kind of rough last night...confused and a big step in my mind. This is the kind of woman you don't want to let get away though.

 

[Carpe-DM]

Son of a BITCH! Not 12 hours after agreeing to be exclusive, the foreign girl calls me and says she's single

 

[Ryan]

Son of a BITCH! Not 12 hours after agreeing to be exclusive, the foreign girl calls me and says she's single

LOL, i must admit, that is quite funny, but unfortunate on your part.

Just don't go there though.

 

[Carpe-DM]

Where? Pursuing the foreign girl?

 

[Ryan]

yeah. Not trying to sound like the morality police, but it's best to stick to your principles or you'll begin a slippery slope.

 

[Chase]

Carpe-

I was super close to closing the threesome deal, but I think I'm falling for this girl. We've become pretty close and I felt just a little like I was cheating when I was with other women. She's totally in love, and went cold that I was procrastinating on something exclusive. It felt really bad to make her feel bad, so I decided to try monogamy. I slept kind of rough last night...confused and a big step in my mind. This is the kind of woman you don't want to let get away though.

It sounds like your emotions are pretty set on this one, and that you kind of want to go with it... I'd probably just go with it. 36 is still pretty young in the grand scheme of things - if you feel like you HAVE to choose monogamy or the threesome (there are always ways to do both, but they're always either challenging or dishonorable, and you may not prefer either path), I'd pick whichever one I'd think I'm more likely to look back on later and regret having missed out on.

Threesomes are a big goal for a lot of guys, but once you have them they're sort of... yeah, fun, but not anything terribly special, and at least your first few are usually a lot more work than enjoyment. If you end up breaking up with this girl in a few years and decide it's time to go get threesomes handled, you seem like you're not having too many problems with women these days, and even if you needed a bit of help, there are a number of guides on the main site on how to do this, too:

• How to Get a Threesome
• Threesome How-To: Step-by-Step to Get Two Girls
• How to Have Threesomes with Your Girlfriend

... so, I wouldn't look at the opportunity as too irreplaceable. Unless you judge it is! I know for me, the first time I ever tried monogamy, I ended up telling the girl after a few weeks that I just couldn't do it, and she was amazing, but I just had too much unfinished business, and she was so great I felt certain that if I committed, it was going to be for life (and I was! ... she was a truly outstanding girl) - I had to do more first. We ended up getting back together later on the condition that she understood I was not going to be exclusive... she just told me she didn't want to know.

You can always change your mind if it's super important to you - just explain it to her so she understands. If it's not that important, just tuck it away in your back pocket, and when/if you find yourself single again, chase the goal down doggedly and you'll get it.

Chase