Cancelled date

[Penguin]

I set up a date with a girl yesterday (who actually kinda looks like the one in the Girlschase forum banner ) for Saturday. She texted me just now saying it won't be possible because she's out for her friend's birthday all day. I've read Chase's 'flake management' article so I know the general idea is to be chilled and not reschedule right now, but what should I actually say now? And how would I go about setting up a future date?

 

[The Tool]

What I have done is just said, alright have fun and not text her again unless she texts me. If the girl doesnt give a counter offer I generally try to ask her out 1 more time about a week later saying "Hey (nickname here) how about that coffee whats your schedule like this week" and if she flakes again drop her.

 

[Penguin]

Sounds good, I'll do exactly that- Thanks

 

[Garrett]

I set up a date with a girl yesterday (who actually kinda looks like the one in the Girlschase forum banner ) for Saturday. She texted me just now saying it won't be possible because she's out for her friend's birthday all day. I've read Chase's 'flake management' article so I know the general idea is to be chilled and not reschedule right now, but what should I actually say now? And how would I go about setting up a future date?

Hey Penguin,

Yeah, treat it like it's no big deal. Just say "I understand, things come up. Have fun ." Then, if she doesn't contact you, I would do the same thing as The Tool said. One thing though... Tool, you said you'd wait a week to contact her again? Seems a bit too long a wait for me. By the time you contact her, she could have slept with someone or met another guy who moves faster. This reminds me of the Pete story Chase talked about, how the Jerry guy was moving fast and Pete was waiting a week to get in touch with the girl. Check out Chase's post, "https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-get-girls-last-post-youll-ever-need" I was thinking wait 2-3 days max then hit her up with, "Hey (name), hope the party was good . Things have been busy on my end, but I thought we should go for that coffee! How's your week looking?" If she contacts you sooner you can set it up then. I just suggest you don't wait too long because attraction has an expiration date and if you move slowly she may be harder to bed by the time you finally get her out.

Goodluck, any thoughts?
Garrett

 

[Penguin]

Hey Penguin,

Yeah, treat it like it's no big deal. Just say "I understand, things come up. Have fun ." Then, if she doesn't contact you, I would do the same thing as The Tool said. One thing though... Tool, you said you'd wait a week to contact her again? Seems a bit too long a wait for me. By the time you contact her, she could have slept with someone or met another guy who moves faster. This reminds me of the Pete story Chase talked about, how the Jerry guy was moving fast and Pete was waiting a week to get in touch with the girl. Check out Chase's post, "https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-get-girls-last-post-youll-ever-need" I was thinking wait 2-3 days max then hit her up with, "Hey (name), hope the party was good . Things have been busy on my end, but I thought we should go for that coffee! How's your week looking?" If she contacts you sooner you can set it up then. I just suggest you don't wait too long because attraction has an expiration date and if you move slowly she may be harder to bed by the time you finally get her out.

Goodluck, any thoughts?
Garrett

That's very helpful, thanks . I'll probably try to reschedule on Sunday. It seems bad that she hasn't made a counter-offer or even apologised- Could be a time waster. I'll shift focus onto the other two girls I might be able to get on a date this week.

 

[Garrett]

Hey Penguin,

She might be a dud, but like Chase said, some girls who don't seem interested want you more than the girls who are all over you and never come home with you. I suggest you keep your options open. Schedule dates with the other 2 girls but don't give up on this girl just yet. Make sure that the plans you make are convenient for BOTH you and her and fit into both your schedules. Don't agree on a date if it's just on her terms. Like this one time, I did the stupidest thing (granted I learned from it) where I invited this girl over to my house, then she said " Instead, let's meet at the mall" then there was a power shift when I agreed, then she said "Can I bring my friend along?" Then I agreed (face palm), then she said "let's all meet and if things go well then maybe I'll come over after." Then I said okay, and of course like an hour before, she said "I can't meet up, my friend doesn't want to." Then I was bitter. Did everything wrong there. Should have made things on my terms and should not have been bitter if she flaked. She wouldn't have either if I had played things how I would now.

Anyways, if I were you, I'd give things another shot with this girl, if you still want her of course. If the girl is just okay, then you could give it a shot for practice (don't do this if you have no interest because despite getting practice in, you may hurt her feelings). Also, assuming you still want her, if she flakes again and you're really into her, then I suggest do the 3 strike rule and if she flakes 3 times, cut her off for good. People are often busy these days and yeah, she didn't reschedule with you, but that doesn't mean you're out. Be persistent when it counts!

Cheers,
Garrett

 

[The Tool]

Yea Garrett Agreed, I just wait a week because I hate it when girls flake even the first time, I have many options (big city) that its usually the first flake that I drop them. I'll go for the second if they flake if they are an 8 or higher on the scale. I like how indepth and insightful you write garrett you know your shit really well. keep it up

The Tool

 

[Penguin]

Ran into her at a nightclub when she was there for her friends' birthday . She complimented my appearance and I got the date rescheduled for the same time next week. So things are looking better now and I might be able to salvage this one .

 

[jez]

I have a similar question and here is some brief background info.

I met a cute 21-year old girl on Tinder and went on 4 dates with her over the course of 3-4 weeks. For date one we went for coffee and got her back to my place. I started touching her and at the end went for a kiss, she turned it down saying "not yet". For the second date, we cooked dinner at my place and kissed several times, but she resisted my advancements. But she did say she wanted to see me again. For date number three, we watched a movie at my place and again kissed several times, much more passionately now. I got her shirt off but hit a wall after that, she basically saying it's too early for something more. I persisted a few times, even touched her down there from the top of her trousers, but could not get further than that. I made no big deal out of it and we even made vague plans for the next date.

So for date number four we had coffee at my place in the evening, then we went out for a walk in the park/woods when it was dark. We sat on a bench, talked and kissed. Then we came back to my place again to have some ice cream. It was getting really late at that point so I suggested a massage at my bed to which she agreed. After that she couldn't resist my advancements no more and we finally had sex for the first time. It was not that great as I was tired already and I'm pretty sure she didn't orgasm. We still had some cuddling after that and decided to get some sleep.

So the next morning we got out of bed pretty quickly. She wanted to go to the shower so I invited her to shower with me, an offer which she surprisingly turned down (this was the first red flag for me). I said "alright" and after we were both done with the showering we decided to get breakfast from this diner close by. We still had some pretty interesting conversations over the breakfast after which we kissed goodbye (we both had other plans for the evening). But this whole post-sex day my gut was telling me that something was a bit off about her. I sensed that her enthusiasm was a bit faded in her kisses and everything. It was Sunday then.

The whole following week (specifically last week as I'm writing this) she was away working at her hometown which is far from where I live. I contacted her 2-3 times during that week. She texted me back, sometimes with long replys, but interestingly was quite vague about the topic of setting up the next date. I then presented two choices for this week, Monday or Tuesday, and she said Tuesday is fine for the date this week. A few days of silence went by then after the agreement.

So come this Monday I got a text from her saying: "Hello! I have to be boring now and ask you if we can move tomorrow for a different date? I have so much planning to do now with my upcoming internship that I really can't seem to make it tomorrow "
I replied: "Yeah sure, no pressure! Get your things sorted out and let me know what date works better for you! "
To which she: "Yeah I also need to get my sleeping habits back in order My autumn holiday was not so much a holiday for me"
Then my last reply: "Yeah mine neither Luckily I'm free this week."

So no counter-offer and haven't heard from her since. How long should I wait before trying to set a date again? I was thinking of waiting 2 weeks and if I don't hear from her, I'll text her something along the lines of what I read in some article here: "Hey there! School still keeping you busy? I was thinking of catching my breath this week: just relaxing and eating chocolate the whole day. Wanna join me?"

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

jez,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it looks like the sex was not good enough and she is auto rejecting you. You can continue to pursue her but your time would be better spent chasing new girls. I didn't read anything where you were excited to be with her so it doesn't seem like much of a loss to me.

Note that when you have this much to say start a new thread. Mote of us will read it that way.

BDSC

 

[jez]

jez,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it looks like the sex was not good enough and she is auto rejecting you. You can continue to pursue her but your time would be better spent chasing new girls. I didn't read anything where you were excited to be with her so it doesn't seem like much of a loss to me.

Note that when you have this much to say start a new thread. Mote of us will read it that way.

BDSC

Thanks for the reply. And yeah you confirm that the sex actually was the turning point here as I suspected. I'm ready to move on to the next one but I think there are a few things here that needs further inspection. Maybe one last try to make something happen. The things I'm talking about are:

1) She still wanted to do something with me the next day (e.g. get breakfast). Auto-rejection expectation would be that she would've just gone home the first chance she got.

2) She made an effort to communicate with me when she was away. Although I initiated contact, her replys were long and there were many in a row. Auto-rejection expectation would be that she wouldn't reply or her replys would be some lame one word or one sentence replys.

3) First she agreed to a date, then cancelled giving an open ended "move to a different time" answer. Auto-rejection expectation would be that she would just say "can't make it tomorrow because I'm busy that day" and nothing about moving the date to another day.

4) The reason she gave is at least somewhat legitimate. She has an upcoming internship through school, so she actually might need to prioritize that. The thing about sleeping is BS though. Auto-rejection expectation would be just a flat out BS reason or no specific reason at all.

So in this case would waiting longer or less until trying to set up a date again hurt my odds? Is 2 weeks too much or too little? And any comments on the approach?

It's crazy that 10 minutes in the sheets can change everything. She's quite young and not really the party girl type, so she can't be all that experienced yet. Then again even one high reference point is enough I guess. But to reject all future dates with me because of that? I'm not too convinced just yet.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Thanks for the reply. And yeah you confirm that the sex actually was the turning point here as I suspected. I'm ready to move on to the next one but I think there are a few things here that needs further inspection. Maybe one last try to make something happen. The things I'm talking about are:

1) She still wanted to do something with me the next day (e.g. get breakfast). Auto-rejection expectation would be that she would've just gone home the first chance she got.

I was going to make an observation the first time but didn't. I think it is relevant. I got the feeling with the delays to sex that she was boyfriending you. You still may be in this situation because a boyfriend doesn't have to be a great lover but considered a good provider. This would explain the behavior. Hanging out a lot and sex occasionally.

2) She made an effort to communicate with me when she was away. Although I initiated contact, her replys were long and there were many in a row. Auto-rejection expectation would be that she wouldn't reply or her replys would be some lame one word or one sentence replys..

Again boyfriend. Lots of long texts.

3) First she agreed to a date, then cancelled giving an open ended "move to a different time" answer. Auto-rejection expectation would be that she would just say "can't make it tomorrow because I'm busy that day" and nothing about moving the date to another day.

This just shows some interest.

4) The reason she gave is at least somewhat legitimate. She has an upcoming internship through school, so she actually might need to prioritize that. The thing about sleeping is BS though. Auto-rejection expectation would be just a flat out BS reason or no specific reason at all.

Same. She is putting you on her terms. Boyfriend.

So in this case would waiting longer or less until trying to set up a date again hurt my odds? Is 2 weeks too much or too little? And any comments on the approach?

If you want to be her boyfriend send an text anytime. If you want to be her lover quit texting her. Your only chance is to take control back. Also about the 10 minutes below, that is way too short unless you totally blow her mind. If you were that tired you should have waited. Mind blowing sex = lover. Average sex = boyfriend or auto reject.

It's crazy that 10 minutes in the sheets can change everything. She's quite young and not really the party girl type, so she can't be all that experienced yet. Then again even one high reference point is enough I guess. But to reject all future dates with me because of that? I'm not too convinced just yet.

One of the things that is hard with having sex with a lot of women is that you have to let your feelings go for the ones you have had sex with and move one. As long as you keep focusing on her you will not focus on the next girl.

BDSC

 

[jez]

If you want to be her boyfriend send an text anytime. If you want to be her lover quit texting her. Your only chance is to take control back. Also about the 10 minutes below, that is way too short unless you totally blow her mind. If you were that tired you should have waited. Mind blowing sex = lover. Average sex = boyfriend or auto reject.

Had to wait only 4 days. Just got a message from her. She apologized for not getting back to me sooner and asked what my schedule is for Sunday. So looks like it's on again. I need to make sure I focus on giving her great sex this time.

One of the things that is hard with having sex with a lot of women is that you have to let your feelings go for the ones you have had sex with and move one. As long as you keep focusing on her you will not focus on the next girl.

Yeah I'm struggling on focusing on many girls at the same time. I feel like I need to be mentally done with one until I move on to the next one. But I'm learning all the time. This particular girl has many of the qualities I look for so I didn't want to move on too quickly.

 

[jez]

Well, this is strange. I'm a bit confused now about what is going on. She came to my place in the evening today and brought cookies.

Everything was set up at my place, the mood was just right with dim lights etc. We had some tea and put on a movie. I kissed her before and she seemed to like it. During the movie I kept touching her but there was very little touching from her side. Which is weird because last time she was a lot more into me during the movie. But she didn't seem bored at all, she laughed at the movie many times throughout.

After it was over we started talking about some other things and it really seems like she enjoys talking with me. But I had to wave her to come close to me again and kiss me. I started to slowly let my hands wander around during the kissing and I noticed her hands starting to do that also. Then I said her name with my bedroom voice - with a slight pause - and then "I want you". She started to smile and almost laugh and then she said "No one's ever said that to me so directly".

Then suddenly she just stopped kissing and froze with a puzzled look, her face still close to me, and said "I really need to get up early tomorrow, I was planning on going to bed early." And then she just kind of moved away.

But she was not upset or anything. My TV was still on and she started to concentrate on the movie that was on. She was not in a hurry to leave and we discussed this and that while watching this random movie. I kept touching her back and legs etc. but she just wasn't in the mood to do anything else with me.

At around 10:30 pm she finally stood up and said she's going to leave. I was very cool about this the whole time and didn't show any disappointed reactions to her rejection.

So there I was standing at the front door and watching her put her clothes on. At this point I didn't want to come off as needy or clingy because that's how I almost started to feel now. So I just stood there with a relaxed posture and a slight smile and waited to see if she comes to me this time. What I got was just a hug and when I playfully said "You were no fun today" she just responded that "Sometimes you're just tired and not up to it".

Then she left. No plans for the next date. (Although she did ask me about my upcoming week when the movie was over.)

So what the hell is going on? She comes to see me, seems to enjoy my company but doesn't want to go past kissing. Did I fuck it up? Is there any point in contacting her or should I just wait for her to make a move?

Seems like a waste of time.

 

[ray_zorse]

Dude persistence is the key here, you shouldn't be taking it physical and saying "I want you" unless you really, really mean it and intend to follow through. I can't say what made her suddenly freeze up but girls will often pull this kind of shit, "I have my period, we can't have sex now" or "I have to get up early" or "I need to shower now" or the classic, "I have a headache"... if you let her set the frame that she can control when you guys are gonna have sex (i.e. that you can be turned on and off like a tap) then you look very weak and unmanly. She wants to feel that you desire her so much you'll wrestle her to the floor and take her then and there, no matter what time she has to fuckin get up the next day or no matter what her lame excuse is. I personally take the view that once I've initiated sexual moves I persist until we have sex or she leaves.
Ray

 

[jez]

Dude persistence is the key here, you shouldn't be taking it physical and saying "I want you" unless you really, really mean it and intend to follow through. I can't say what made her suddenly freeze up but girls will often pull this kind of shit, "I have my period, we can't have sex now" or "I have to get up early" or "I need to shower now" or the classic, "I have a headache"... if you let her set the frame that she can control when you guys are gonna have sex (i.e. that you can be turned on and off like a tap) then you look very weak and unmanly. She wants to feel that you desire her so much you'll wrestle her to the floor and take her then and there, no matter what time she has to fuckin get up the next day or no matter what her lame excuse is. I personally take the view that once I've initiated sexual moves I persist until we have sex or she leaves.
Ray

I agree with this and it was my every intention to take it further. But like you said, I don't get what made her freeze the interaction and suddenly go into a logical mode. We've had sex once already and it wasn't so difficult last time once the escalation started. She wouldn't even try to make excuses or resist my advances in any way. I don't think it should be like this if sex has already happened before. Would there be anything I should text her or just completely forget about her?

Just from the top of my head a text would look something like this: "Hey there! I don't know what made you hesitate the last time but I'd still like to see you again. Just let me know what your schedule is like! If you don't feel like it, then that's ok too."

 

[ray_zorse]

It's impossible to say, you handled it reasonably well except for not giving her the D. For future reference keep in mind that you must have sex every time you hang out, otherwise you will slide from lover iniscuss yfriend territory with lots of undesirable consequences (it's okay to be her boyfriend if your lover frame is firmly established and religiously maintained, I sometimes meet my girlfriend on a Thursday morning for just coffee and catchup and this does not hurt me since we have so much other sex and since she's earned the privilege of my company by investing hard, see my journal). The problem you will run into (if she is still down to hang out) is her now refusing you sex on a regular basis and also being emboldened to test you harder e.g. by causing drama, arguing or criticizing you, refusing compliance, making you date/court her, etc. Tread on this behaviour firmly if you see it, but in regards to refusing sex, likely the damage is done and it cannot be turned around now. Just put up with the fact that you always have to be/are expected to be congruent to your previous behaviour and whatever precedents have been set, and do things right next time. My girl would never refuse me sex, if you go back a few posts in mu journal you will see how I handled it and how I avoided any undesirable precedent being set (dodged a bullet though).
Ray
PS Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES SEND THAT TEXT! Treat as if nothing happened and game her as normal. Don't be thirsty jusy play it cool and let her come to you, also read some texting guides on the site and NEVER discuss relationship issues over text for any reason or in any circumstances, if she tries this ignore her. By phone or in person is okay within reason but don't initiate in normal circumstances, just note any issues that develop and fix them as discreetly as you possibly can.

 

[jez]

Thanks for your insight, Ray. I'll just play it cool now and let her make the next move. Somehow I just think I won't hear from her again. It's been 2 weeks since we had sex, so refusing it now is just completely nuts. I came up with a theory that maybe she started to wonder that it's all about sex for me and started to test me to see if she can keep me around without it. Or she has a very low sex drive. Or she is super conservative/inexperienced and doesn't know how to handle these kinds of situations. Or just not that into me. Either way it's fucked up so I'd better just move on to the next one. I'll probably update here if anything else comes up though.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

jez,

These are all possible theories which I don't agree with any of them. The problem is that they are all reasons that make her to problem. If you make the problem her then you can't fix it next time. Every time there will be a reason why she was the problem. If you accept the problem as something I did then you can work to correct the problem. Both Ray and I are telling you how you need to change what you did. Note I am not saying you are the problem. I am saying your actions are the problem. Evaluate what you did and learn from the experience. You will always be learning even after you become an expert. Embrace the learning process. Evaluate what you did, think of what you could do better and then implement a new approach. Keep working on this. You will improve.

BDSC

 

[jez]

jez,

These are all possible theories which I don't agree with any of them. The problem is that they are all reasons that make her to problem. If you make the problem her then you can't fix it next time. Every time there will be a reason why she was the problem. If you accept the problem as something I did then you can work to correct the problem. Both Ray and I are telling you how you need to change what you did. Note I am not saying you are the problem. I am saying your actions are the problem. Evaluate what you did and learn from the experience. You will always be learning even after you become an expert. Embrace the learning process. Evaluate what you did, think of what you could do better and then implement a new approach. Keep working on this. You will improve.

BDSC

Absolutely. And my last point "just not that into me" is the one I take personally and try to evaluate what I could've done better. And in this case I think I need to be a bit more aggressive, a bit more persistent and give the girl better sex the first time.