Can't run a good date.... what does this feedback mean?

[raiden]

Hi everybody. I'm using app dating to try to get better. I have a lifetime of bad results but, before I stopped working with them, my dating coaches recommended that I try to use app dating to break out of inceldom before putting effort into cold approach. Anyway, I had a string of 4 bad dates and here are the texts that I received afterwards. I've removed the identifying information and corrected spelling etc., of course.

1. (dinner date)
It was great meeting you and I had fun talking, but I don't think there's much chemistry there. Happy to hang out as friends, I do think we have a lot in common, but understand if not. Hope you find someone special regardless

2. (park date)
Been thinking how I feel about you. And to be honest, I don't feel "it". Not because you aren't lovely, you are. You don't let conversations die, you talk well, you keep conversations going. I just feel differently. I'm sorry.

3. (bar/drinks date)
Hey, thanks for yesterday. I had such a lovely time and you are great guy. I just didn't feel a spark and it would be unfair of me to come on another date. But I did honestly have a great time and you deserve the best!

4. (dinner date)
I've appreciated getting to know you better, and I've thought about it too. I believe it's best for both of us to be upfront, and I don't feel a romantic connection that would lead to a second date. I respect you and your time, and I hope you understand my decision.

Can we glean anything from this feedback that could help me improve or is it all just generic stuff? I think of myself as a guy with poor fundamentals and to me, the texts read like I ran the dates well enough, though not amazing, but just am not attractive enough (attraction is there or it isn't, and it wasn't). Or maybe I need more Byronic qualities and to break rapport a little? I'm keen to get other guys' views anyway. I want to break through these sticking points. Thanks a bunch! Also I know that activity date is missing above. I'm going to try running a few more of those for my next few dates.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

If you're getting dates off of swipe apps, then you're meeting the threshold of visual attractiveness.

But in person, your personality is not clicking with the other person besides that visual attraction. That's normal.

Sounds like you're just doing regular dating and not doing anything pickup related.

Since that is the case, 0:4 is perfectly fine. Just going on a date doesn't mean anything in terms of long term partner or short term hookup - because when just doing run of the mill dating, only "natural" attraction happens.

 

[POB]

You are lacking dating structure:
- Do only coffee shops and delis where you can sit next to her in a cozy quiet environment.... forget bars, parks or dinner;
- Use the 3 bounce technique (search the archives, I'm too lazy to look for it right now lol);
- Plan logistics ahead....like where you will meet her the first time, and where you'll bounce her to the second and third times;
- Have tight plan on how you'll deal with objections when transitioning to your place;
- Follow this sequence:
1st place: meet and greet, fluff talk, light sexual innuendos
2nd place: kino, proper sex talk (use one or two gambits), seed the pull
3rd place: your home, isolate and escalate, sex

 

[slashrfnr]

If you're getting dates off of swipe apps, then you're meeting the threshold of visual attractiveness.

But in person, your personality is not clicking with the other person besides that visual attraction. That's normal.

Sounds like you're just doing regular dating and not doing anything pickup related.

Since that is the case, 0:4 is perfectly fine. Just going on a date doesn't mean anything in terms of long term partner or short term hookup - because when just doing run of the mill dating, only "natural" attraction happens.

This is very true - as someone who uses GC to improve my dating and social skills, and who primarily dates for the purpose of finding a LTR/companion (rather than for getting laid, building a rotation - which I've noticed this forum is more geared towards these days, although I may be wrong) 0:4 is perfectly normal, especially on dating apps. I'd say the majority of dating app dates I've been on, I've known reasonably quickly there is nothing there, and I've been the one sending those texts quite often.

You can make someone continually feel attraction for you (which is what the guys here are very good at), but you can't make someone feel 'chemistry'

Ultimately it depends on what you are looking for from women. My advice would be to increase your lover value/attactiveness a bit - I've gone out with a few girls where I knew they weren't my type, and they knew I wasn't their type, but they were still very happy to come home with me

 

[KJ Francis]

How much are you talking vs. her?

"I had fun talking"
"we have a lot in common"
"lovely, you are"
"you keep conversations going"
"such a lovely time"
"getting to know you better"

Sounds like it could be too much platonic, connection based conversation.

 

[lceman]

Listen to the girls: they're all talking about a lack of sexual interest. 'romantic connection, spark, chemistry' are all missing from your dates.

You're attractive enough if you're out on dates with them and clearly your conversation isn't the problem; your sexualization of the encounter is. The girl swiped on a dating app and agreed to meet you - if you don't try to fuck her (quickly!), she's going to find someone who will.

Remember, it's okay to want sex. Girls want sex too, that's why she agreed to meet you. Try being more overt about your intentions.

You can also cheat by screening harder in your texting. For example, including "let's meet for a flirt and see what happens" - if she's down to meet, she knows what's up. Have a brief conversation somewhere near your place then invite her back; start kissing her once there and you're off to the races.

I call it cheating because you skip generating arousal in the girl; in these cases she already decided it was okay to sleep with you, and all you have to do is lead and make a move. You'll get laid but be careful, doing this definitely left some holes in my game.

 

[Skills]

Check out this post

Date Plans - The complete guide on How to date - Dating dynamics 101

Why listen to me on this, well i was never good at dating, i would either do ons or long texting (second gen/grandmaster) setting up sexual encounters or i would replicate what happened in the club a second time by doing a club date (since I am the highest value guy in the dance floor made...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Gram]

So far some good advice here and I don't want to take this too far off but my thoughts are:

1. Watch your words. Best advice I've received - your post opens with some negative thoughts that should get kicked. You do refer to things in the past tense (which is good) but just by bringing them up you help them stay fresh.

2. Well done on the four dates!

3. Are you playing "nice" and trying to win them over? If so, I think your chasing. All the previous replies point to solutions but be sure to give her some space to prove to you how good she is. Make her start to chase you.

4. Along those lines, create tension, especially sexual. Keep good eye contact, make her break it first. Let there be pauses where she has to fill in or carry the conversation.

5. Create arousal and pleasure. Are you dressing conservatively or have an edge? Take her out of the mundane...the three bounce date method will help generate excitement and build arousal, tension, and pleasure.

 

[raiden]

How much are you talking vs. her?

"I had fun talking"
"we have a lot in common"
"lovely, you are"
"you keep conversations going"
"such a lovely time"
"getting to know you better"

Sounds like it could be too much platonic, connection based conversation.

I'm trying to deep dive well and get to know her. I know that the recommendation is for her to do 80% of the talking. I really thought that I did well on date 4 and even got some positive encouragement from her. The date was maybe 100 minutes long and I found out about her childhood, her past relationships and her relationship with her family. She said once during the date "I haven't even told my mom this story" and then told me a story (might not be true but I saw it as positive encouragement). Last year/season of dates (I start the season in September), I had 20 first dates and 3 went to second date, and the feedback was just like this. So I thought that I needed to work more on my attainability, so I tried to find more stuff that I liked about these women and tell them this season. (also I see myself as an unattractive guy so it's quite possible that my attainability is lower than I think). The complimenting hasn't worked of course. What should I be doing in place of my deep dive connection stuff?

I can run a structured date in the city but I don't have good logistics so I won't be able to direct the first date back to my place. It would be a multi-date romance.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

I'm trying to deep dive well and get to know her.

Way too much comfort for a first date from an online chick.

Attraction
Trust
Seduction

In that order.

If you develop trust/comfort/deep rapport before you get to attraction - you end up in the friendzone.

 

[raiden]

Way too much comfort for a first date from an online chick.

Attraction
Trust
Seduction

In that order.

If you develop trust/comfort/deep rapport before you get to attraction - you end up in the friendzone.

Ok so I'm doing what seems to be a great job with trust but an awful job with attraction (not doing it at all). Are there any gambits I could use or things I could do for attraction? I thought that attraction was already there or not based on my fundamentals, but I guess that I'm wrong.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Ok so I'm doing what seems to be a great job with trust but an awful job with attraction (not doing it at all). Are there any gambits I could use or things I could do for attraction? I thought that attraction was already there or not based on my fundamentals, but I guess that I'm wrong.

Lemme try this from a different angle.

You see a cutie on Tinder.
You swipe right.
She swipes right.
You manage to get her out for a coffee date at Starbucks.

In your mind, what's supposed to happen?

WIA

 

[KJ Francis]

I'm trying to deep dive well and get to know her. I know that the recommendation is for her to do 80% of the talking. I really thought that I did well on date 4 and even got some positive encouragement from her. The date was maybe 100 minutes long and I found out about her childhood, her past relationships and her relationship with her family. She said once during the date "I haven't even told my mom this story" and then told me a story (might not be true but I saw it as positive encouragement). Last year/season of dates (I start the season in September), I had 20 first dates and 3 went to second date, and the feedback was just like this. So I thought that I needed to work more on my attainability, so I tried to find more stuff that I liked about these women and tell them this season. (also I see myself as an unattractive guy so it's quite possible that my attainability is lower than I think). The complimenting hasn't worked of course. What should I be doing in place of my deep dive connection stuff?

I can run a structured date in the city but I don't have good logistics so I won't be able to direct the first date back to my place. It would be a multi-date romance.

Mirror Neurons in Seduction – The Foundation of Everything I Teach

Hi, I’m Gunwitch. I’ve been doing pickup and seduction for decades, and the first thing I hammer into my students’ minds is the importance of mirror neurons. Contents I. The S.E.C.T. Method S – Speak Like a Lover E – Eye Contact C – Get Closer to Her T – Touch Her II. How Do Mirror Neurons Come...

www.girlschase.com

The order of operarations @West_Indian_Archie just wrote was real helpful for me actually. I've always done a lot of deep diving since it builds trust that is a means to an end for compliance. It's important to be continually moving her toward the bedroom, like Skills' three bounce method, or just generally having the intent to isolate and escalate.

I've gotten caught up in way too much deep diving though, so it's good to remember put attraction first, then build trust.

 

[raiden]

Lemme try this from a different angle.

You see a cutie on Tinder.
You swipe right.
She swipes right.
You manage to get her out for a coffee date at Starbucks.

In your mind, what's supposed to happen?

WIA

I'm following the dating model that I see my friends run (not GC approved). That is, get to a second date. Then to a third and a fourth etc. Get laid maybe 6 dates in and, if logistics are bad, plan it all out with her ("for date 7 let's go to hotel b"). Of course, I can't get past the first date.

 

[Skills]

I'm following the dating model that I see my friends run (not GC approved). That is, get to a second date. Then to a third and a fourth etc. Get laid maybe 6 dates in and, if logistics are bad, plan it all out with her ("for date 7 let's go to hotel b"). Of course, I can't get past the first date.

Horrible after 2 dates no lay, your odds of getting laid plummet

 

[raiden]

So are we all basically saying that it's not me that's the problem but the actual dating structure? Whatever I do, I should be using something like a three venue structure with venue 3 being a private location, and worry about how I'm interacting etc. later. That way at least I'm going out on my shield, getting a no at the venue bounce rather than when we go home and text. Is that right?

 

[POB]

I'm following the dating model that I see my friends run (not GC approved). That is, get to a second date. Then to a third and a fourth etc. Get laid maybe 6 dates in and, if logistics are bad, plan it all out with her ("for date 7 let's go to hotel b"). Of course, I can't get past the first date.

Face palm
If 3 dates and no sex, just bail...by then you already been slotted as a "provider" in her eyes!!!
Sex will be reserved for when she wants to commit, so she'll make you wait...and wait...and wait...meanwhile she will be having fun with another dude's cock.

 

[raiden]

Face palm
If 3 dates and no sex, just bail...by then you already been slotted as a "provider" in her eyes!!!
Sex will be reserved for when she wants to commit, so she'll make you wait...and wait...and wait...meanwhile she will be having fun with another dude's cock.

Bail and do what exactly? It's clear here that I'm not an attractive guy and I have to take what I can get. Don't I have to see it through to the bitter end if I actually make it to 3 dates?

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

So are we all basically saying that it's not me that's the problem but the actual dating structure? Whatever I do, I should be using something like a three venue structure with venue 3 being a private location, and worry about how I'm interacting etc. later. That way at least I'm going out on my shield, getting a no at the venue bounce rather than when we go home and text. Is that right?

I'm saying that this is a not a forum for normal dating.
I'm saying this is a forum for picking chicks up and putting the D in em, as fast and as safe as possible (for both parties).

I'm not sure why you're here, of all places.

Like if you're not into seduction, pick up, how did you even find this place?

I'm glad that you're here! Maybe you are capable of learning.

But we need to

• Understand your mindset
• Understand your goals
• Understand your methods

in order to give good advice.

The way I run a date?

The "date" starts when I first meet her offline.
We develop a back and forth, an energy.
She knows how my voice sounds, what my touch feels like, the smell of my cologne, how my body moves.

Why? Because that's the situation I create on purpose.

And when I grab the number, I usually don't expect her to call back/text back.

But if she does, I know that this first date is usually a lock.

There will be some texting. I like Skill's way of texting and have basically integrated that with what I've been doing for years.

I design my dates in a very pick up specific way.

This is old school, but anytime you're dealing with a chick - you're not just offering her some company and vitamin D at the end of the night. You're giving her a chance to live in a new world, your world.

So I'm going to tell her to come meet me at some Afro Brazilian night, Art Gallery, Mixologist place near some good restaurants.

I don't pick her up. Why? Because broads have a habit of being late. And I have a horrible trait within myself that sees lateness as disrespect, and I can't tolerate it. Girl could be perfect for me in everyway, but her being late means I can't talk to her. It's a failing of mine, and I know I should seek counseling for it.

I don't do anything that involves reserverations or tickets.
I don't make any concessions about the first date. If she wants to be with me, she's gonna be with me. This isn't a negotiation.

When she shows up, standard PUA stuff applies.

• Eye her up and down.
  • Show your "hand" nonverbally by approving of the way she looks.
  • That sets the tone of sensuality/sexuality without saying it.
• Then hug
  • possibly dance twirl (works well for younger chicks, and Latinas, ime)
• If I do say something, "You clean up nice". or "I'm glad I got all gussied up", or "We're gonna be the hottest couple in the area"

From there, standard pleasantries, "did you find the place, did you drive, where'd you park..." - I care about this stuff, and that helps her. It also sets up.

When we do whatever, I stay away from standard topics like her background, values, etc. I don't want her biography, I want her biology.

Once we reacquaint ourselves with why we thought the other person was attractive, it's about building that attraction, building trust, and creating arousal.

Attraction - her desire to be around me - is not the same as Arousal, her primal desire to multiply. It's not really until we get to the "end" of the date that her desire to be around me + her desire to multiply comes together. Between that, I have to build "trust".

Trust is not her being able to tell me her deepest darkest secrets. That's what trust might mean to a man, not a woman. She'll tell about me about her 15 abortions, suicide ideation, molestation, etc - but that doesn't create anything for her. (in my experience). She might think it does, but there are plenty of emotional tampons/nice guys that know all this stuff, but don't know what she smells like naked.

Trust is not embarrasing her. Trust is grabbing her hand and letting it go. Trust is everytime we go someplace, nothing bad happens.

Arousal - As all of this is happening, there's some verbal flirting, some eye contact, some physical contact...

And she just gets wrapped up in it.

For those of us who have been doing this a while, closing rate for an offline meet to date is north of 80%. And a second date is required, that's usually 90%.

There probably won't be a 3rd date, not a pressing need for it.

I hope you can see that the mindset of a pick up artist is very far away from the type of questions you're asking.

What about love?
What about connection?
What if the girl doesn't care about my hobbies and passions?

Well then pick up might not be for you and your vision of what relationships are supposed to be like.

 

[raiden]

I'm saying that this is a not a forum for normal dating.
I'm saying this is a forum for picking chicks up and putting the D in em, as fast and as safe as possible (for both parties).

I'm not sure why you're here, of all places.

Like if you're not into seduction, pick up, how did you even find this place?

I'm glad that you're here! Maybe you are capable of learning.

But we need to

• Understand your mindset
• Understand your goals
• Understand your methods

in order to give good advice.

The way I run a date?

The "date" starts when I first meet her offline.
We develop a back and forth, an energy.
She knows how my voice sounds, what my touch feels like, the smell of my cologne, how my body moves.

Why? Because that's the situation I create on purpose.

And when I grab the number, I usually don't expect her to call back/text back.

But if she does, I know that this first date is usually a lock.

There will be some texting. I like Skill's way of texting and have basically integrated that with what I've been doing for years.

I design my dates in a very pick up specific way.

This is old school, but anytime you're dealing with a chick - you're not just offering her some company and vitamin D at the end of the night. You're giving her a chance to live in a new world, your world.

So I'm going to tell her to come meet me at some Afro Brazilian night, Art Gallery, Mixologist place near some good restaurants.

I don't pick her up. Why? Because broads have a habit of being late. And I have a horrible trait within myself that sees lateness as disrespect, and I can't tolerate it. Girl could be perfect for me in everyway, but her being late means I can't talk to her. It's a failing of mine, and I know I should seek counseling for it.

I don't do anything that involves reserverations or tickets.
I don't make any concessions about the first date. If she wants to be with me, she's gonna be with me. This isn't a negotiation.

When she shows up, standard PUA stuff applies.

• Eye her up and down.
  • Show your "hand" nonverbally by approving of the way she looks.
  • That sets the tone of sensuality/sexuality without saying it.
• Then hug
  • possibly dance twirl (works well for younger chicks, and Latinas, ime)
• If I do say something, "You clean up nice". or "I'm glad I got all gussied up", or "We're gonna be the hottest couple in the area"

From there, standard pleasantries, "did you find the place, did you drive, where'd you park..." - I care about this stuff, and that helps her. It also sets up.

When we do whatever, I stay away from standard topics like her background, values, etc. I don't want her biography, I want her biology.

Once we reacquaint ourselves with why we thought the other person was attractive, it's about building that attraction, building trust, and creating arousal.

Attraction - her desire to be around me - is not the same as Arousal, her primal desire to multiply. It's not really until we get to the "end" of the date that her desire to be around me + her desire to multiply comes together. Between that, I have to build "trust".

Trust is not her being able to tell me her deepest darkest secrets. That's what trust might mean to a man, not a woman. She'll tell about me about her 15 abortions, suicide ideation, molestation, etc - but that doesn't create anything for her. (in my experience). She might think it does, but there are plenty of emotional tampons/nice guys that know all this stuff, but don't know what she smells like naked.

Trust is not embarrasing her. Trust is grabbing her hand and letting it go. Trust is everytime we go someplace, nothing bad happens.

Arousal - As all of this is happening, there's some verbal flirting, some eye contact, some physical contact...

And she just gets wrapped up in it.

For those of us who have been doing this a while, closing rate for an offline meet to date is north of 80%. And a second date is required, that's usually 90%.

There probably won't be a 3rd date, not a pressing need for it.

I hope you can see that the mindset of a pick up artist is very far away from the type of questions you're asking.

What about love?
What about connection?
What if the girl doesn't care about my hobbies and passions?

Well then pick up might not be for you and your vision of what relationships are supposed to be like.

This is a great post but you said that attraction is different to arousal, but didn't describe how. Can you give more info?

I'm on this site because I set out in 2017 to get a girlfriend and I still don't want to give up. Clearly the articles haven't helped me as much as I'd like, but every dog has its day.