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Eternity-
Hmm, interesting suggestion! I don't know I'd be the guy to write it myself... I've not taken the time to find out how talented with women the fathers of men I've known are. And I don't spend much time around the families of male friends. And my older male friends who are good with girls either don't have sons, or I haven't met them / haven't spent time around them.
I have a natural uncle, whose son has always been physically confident but never struck me as particularly socially confident. From what I've seen of his dating life, it's been pretty average. Genes probably play a big role; the son is much more like his mother, who is more reserved, quieter, etc. In general children will inherit much more of one parent's personality than the other's... you can see this in big families. Half the children (of either sex) will be like little Moms and the other half will be like little Dads.
My own father is at least somewhat natural. Confident guy, flirts with women, and has them approach and flirt with him. Lots of flirtation with my mother's sisters. Apparently did pretty well with women when he was young, but he doesn't talk much about when he was young and single. Certainly got my mother pretty easily and in a very confident way. I had very high social anxiety when young (again, taking after my mother... mother's family has high anxiety). Always had a natural-like intuitive grasp of social rules, and girls approached and flirted with me when young, but anxiety was a major road block for me.
My suspicion is the two big components are which set of genes did you get (Mom's or Dad's?) and have you gotten to see your old man in action. I got to see some of my father's, but don't use all his flirtation style... very chummy, lots of hugs, etc. Again, probably genes. But I use many of his facial expressions, voice tones, and mannerisms (and have used them more as I've gotten older, I've found).
Really at this point I think genes play the biggest role in whether you get a natural father's skill set. Do you inherit your father's personality or your mother's? Most naturals do not marry charismatic, outgoing women. They tend to marry shier, quieter women. If you the genetic lottery gives you Mom's personality you won't take to Dad's charismatic naturalness as well as you will if you get Dad's personality.
(also: if you want sons guaranteed to be outgoing, charismatic naturals, be sure to wife up an outgoing, charismatic girl. 50/50 chance a son gets your personality, 50/50 chance he gets hers. If you think your girl's personality would translate well to sexual success as a man, she'll give you talented sons)
Chase
Hmm, interesting suggestion! I don't know I'd be the guy to write it myself... I've not taken the time to find out how talented with women the fathers of men I've known are. And I don't spend much time around the families of male friends. And my older male friends who are good with girls either don't have sons, or I haven't met them / haven't spent time around them.
I have a natural uncle, whose son has always been physically confident but never struck me as particularly socially confident. From what I've seen of his dating life, it's been pretty average. Genes probably play a big role; the son is much more like his mother, who is more reserved, quieter, etc. In general children will inherit much more of one parent's personality than the other's... you can see this in big families. Half the children (of either sex) will be like little Moms and the other half will be like little Dads.
My own father is at least somewhat natural. Confident guy, flirts with women, and has them approach and flirt with him. Lots of flirtation with my mother's sisters. Apparently did pretty well with women when he was young, but he doesn't talk much about when he was young and single. Certainly got my mother pretty easily and in a very confident way. I had very high social anxiety when young (again, taking after my mother... mother's family has high anxiety). Always had a natural-like intuitive grasp of social rules, and girls approached and flirted with me when young, but anxiety was a major road block for me.
My suspicion is the two big components are which set of genes did you get (Mom's or Dad's?) and have you gotten to see your old man in action. I got to see some of my father's, but don't use all his flirtation style... very chummy, lots of hugs, etc. Again, probably genes. But I use many of his facial expressions, voice tones, and mannerisms (and have used them more as I've gotten older, I've found).
Really at this point I think genes play the biggest role in whether you get a natural father's skill set. Do you inherit your father's personality or your mother's? Most naturals do not marry charismatic, outgoing women. They tend to marry shier, quieter women. If you the genetic lottery gives you Mom's personality you won't take to Dad's charismatic naturalness as well as you will if you get Dad's personality.
(also: if you want sons guaranteed to be outgoing, charismatic naturals, be sure to wife up an outgoing, charismatic girl. 50/50 chance a son gets your personality, 50/50 chance he gets hers. If you think your girl's personality would translate well to sexual success as a man, she'll give you talented sons)
Chase
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Hey,
Interesting thread!
For the anecdote, my dad, and his dad before him, were both gifted naturals. My dad got new girlfriends even in his late 60s. And I witnessed my granddad cold approach a woman in her late 20s, when he was past 70s. They both did consistently well all their lives. My uncle from mum side is also a natural, his laycount above 100, and I saw him in action many many times... Until he married at least (past age 40).
Myself, I was more like going the classical girlfriend /boyfriend route, AFC in scarce mentality, with long streaks of lone time in between girlfriends for most of my life. But considering how easily I learned all this once i really tried, I think I had it in me the whole time. Some player friend of mine used to say that I had "the mojo" with girls. Essentially I think I was held back by my belief system, which, it turns out, was easy to change for a more successful one.
Seppuku
Interesting thread!
For the anecdote, my dad, and his dad before him, were both gifted naturals. My dad got new girlfriends even in his late 60s. And I witnessed my granddad cold approach a woman in her late 20s, when he was past 70s. They both did consistently well all their lives. My uncle from mum side is also a natural, his laycount above 100, and I saw him in action many many times... Until he married at least (past age 40).
Myself, I was more like going the classical girlfriend /boyfriend route, AFC in scarce mentality, with long streaks of lone time in between girlfriends for most of my life. But considering how easily I learned all this once i really tried, I think I had it in me the whole time. Some player friend of mine used to say that I had "the mojo" with girls. Essentially I think I was held back by my belief system, which, it turns out, was easy to change for a more successful one.
Seppuku
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Baller genetics.
My pops, once I get him in the right mood, will tell me about his 20's where he'd bang like 5 girls a week from the bars, had a reputation of sleeping around but a great lay, and would frequently bang strippers at clubs. He taught me a thing or two before I discovered GC, and now I plan to surpass him - eventually haha. Got some work to do.
Seppuku,
Love a youthful spirit. How'd it go??
My pops, once I get him in the right mood, will tell me about his 20's where he'd bang like 5 girls a week from the bars, had a reputation of sleeping around but a great lay, and would frequently bang strippers at clubs. He taught me a thing or two before I discovered GC, and now I plan to surpass him - eventually haha. Got some work to do.
Seppuku,
Love a youthful spirit. How'd it go??
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That's great! I am also trying to teach a couple things to my son on the topic, but the will has to come from him at the end of the day.Hue said:
It was in a restaurant, like 25 years ago. He held the conversation with her a good part of the evening. What happened next I never knew
but whatever, the cheer fact that he was engaging conversation with a girl 40+ years younger than him is already great. My own dad, who was also present that evening, told me "it is a lesson in life". I wish I had taken the lesson back then, but late is better than never!
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Aye, interesting stuff here guys - Seppuku and Hue!
There was definitely a big shift with from Gen X on down. Whether it was due to the "men are bad, talking to women is bad" thing floating around in general society (I never had academic indoctrination against talking to / dating / sleeping with girls, unlike some other guys [save a little Catholic abstinence education I never bought into]), or the huge testosterone drop men have experienced the past 30 years, or the overabundance of men due to no big wars that cull the male population count, I don't know.
When I signed up for a workshop with theApproach in early 2006 and called my folks from NYC, my father was very disappointed. His main message was "I don't know why you would even feel you need something like that." Which floored me - I was a 22-year-old kid with a DOA love life. I needed help. For him it just seemed weird and sad you would even need assistance with a thing like dating.
It wasn't just the sexual revolution, either. My maternal grandfather approached my maternal grandmother at a bar in the 1940s (though he insisted on no sex until marriage, which she wasn't too fond of but she liked him enough to deal with it). My paternal grandmother, when introduced to my paternal grandfather's father, I believe in the late 1930s before the war started, found him in bed with two much younger women. Paternal step-grandfather used to tell all kinds of stories about his affairs, including one he had on his wedding night with paternal grandmother. So it's not like I come from a line of shy guys. But when it reached my generation, -shift-. And I had to spend years consciously working on women as a skill.
There was a huge shift in men's behavior starting sometime in the 1970s or 1980s. More than just a generational shift. Men became much more timid and fearful. A lot of people do not like the men's dating advice industry, but it only exists because of that shift - without the shift we wouldn't need it.
Chase
There was definitely a big shift with from Gen X on down. Whether it was due to the "men are bad, talking to women is bad" thing floating around in general society (I never had academic indoctrination against talking to / dating / sleeping with girls, unlike some other guys [save a little Catholic abstinence education I never bought into]), or the huge testosterone drop men have experienced the past 30 years, or the overabundance of men due to no big wars that cull the male population count, I don't know.
When I signed up for a workshop with theApproach in early 2006 and called my folks from NYC, my father was very disappointed. His main message was "I don't know why you would even feel you need something like that." Which floored me - I was a 22-year-old kid with a DOA love life. I needed help. For him it just seemed weird and sad you would even need assistance with a thing like dating.
It wasn't just the sexual revolution, either. My maternal grandfather approached my maternal grandmother at a bar in the 1940s (though he insisted on no sex until marriage, which she wasn't too fond of but she liked him enough to deal with it). My paternal grandmother, when introduced to my paternal grandfather's father, I believe in the late 1930s before the war started, found him in bed with two much younger women. Paternal step-grandfather used to tell all kinds of stories about his affairs, including one he had on his wedding night with paternal grandmother. So it's not like I come from a line of shy guys. But when it reached my generation, -shift-. And I had to spend years consciously working on women as a skill.
There was a huge shift in men's behavior starting sometime in the 1970s or 1980s. More than just a generational shift. Men became much more timid and fearful. A lot of people do not like the men's dating advice industry, but it only exists because of that shift - without the shift we wouldn't need it.
Chase
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An anecdote from having a father that wasn't particularly good with women (to my knowledge)...
I'm pretty sure I inherited my dad's personality. He's a baby boomer (so before all the downfalls of masculinity Chase points out), but I don't think he was ever particularly good with women by any means. I hear his post high school early college days were pretty wild but from everything I've heard it seems wild more so in the sense of heavy drinking and pot smoking as opposed to sexual conquests. Interestingly in my high school days I was pretty wild myself with the drinking and drug use, and although surrounded by friends and hot girls having sex I never partook because I was too hesitant and scared.
Being that my dad has a "white-knight" outlook towards women (he originally rescued my mom from an abusive relationship), considers womanizers with high lay counts as despicable, always instructed me to "listen to your mom" when it comes to advice for dating, and the best (worst) dating advice he has ever given me is and I quote, "one day I'd imagine you'll be sitting in the library studying and a pretty girl with come up to you and think your just the most interesting man in the world and you'll just talk for hours and things will just happen and fall into place and you'll never look back".
So it'd be hard to imagine my dad has bedded scads of women, it'd just be too incongruent to have the beliefs and ideas about women that he holds and be a secret undercover Mack daddy pimp. Probably why I only got laid once before learning game at age 19.
Game does run in my blood though. Both my paternal/maternal grandfathers cold approached their wives back in the 1930's. My grandfather would always strike up convo's with young waitresses and flirt and make them smile when I hung out with him. I just don't think my dad inherited that personality trait which is too bad.
One ambition I hold is to change this moving forward once I do begin a family in the distant future.
-Rob
I'm pretty sure I inherited my dad's personality. He's a baby boomer (so before all the downfalls of masculinity Chase points out), but I don't think he was ever particularly good with women by any means. I hear his post high school early college days were pretty wild but from everything I've heard it seems wild more so in the sense of heavy drinking and pot smoking as opposed to sexual conquests. Interestingly in my high school days I was pretty wild myself with the drinking and drug use, and although surrounded by friends and hot girls having sex I never partook because I was too hesitant and scared.
Being that my dad has a "white-knight" outlook towards women (he originally rescued my mom from an abusive relationship), considers womanizers with high lay counts as despicable, always instructed me to "listen to your mom" when it comes to advice for dating, and the best (worst) dating advice he has ever given me is and I quote, "one day I'd imagine you'll be sitting in the library studying and a pretty girl with come up to you and think your just the most interesting man in the world and you'll just talk for hours and things will just happen and fall into place and you'll never look back".
So it'd be hard to imagine my dad has bedded scads of women, it'd just be too incongruent to have the beliefs and ideas about women that he holds and be a secret undercover Mack daddy pimp. Probably why I only got laid once before learning game at age 19.
Game does run in my blood though. Both my paternal/maternal grandfathers cold approached their wives back in the 1930's. My grandfather would always strike up convo's with young waitresses and flirt and make them smile when I hung out with him. I just don't think my dad inherited that personality trait which is too bad.
One ambition I hold is to change this moving forward once I do begin a family in the distant future.
-Rob
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- Nov 20, 2012
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Awesome replies guys. Thanks. I myself inherited my mothers side of the family personality. More my uncle from my mother's side which I'm not too ecstatic to be compared too. My father gift and ease with women are what I constantly aspire too but still fall short with. He's a pretty dark triad dude with plenty of charm but also coldness and rage that can intimidate people. Still better him to learn from than a blue pill beta father which would infinitely fuck me up even more...
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Eternity said:
Hasn't held me back much.
The way I look at it is I'd rather have a natural "beta" personality (not much for alpha vs. beta terminology but for the sake of the discussion) and have the knowledge and resources to train myself up to be more dominant/charismatic/gangster than the average natural "alpha" personality that hasn't worked on himself in that regard (which most don't) because I'll likely be able to get what I want out of life more often than compared to that guy when its all said and done...
That's been my experience thus far at least.
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My dad was an alpha male to us and people around him and I learned from that early on.
I had cute girlfriends since I was 6. I was a dominant kid who got what he wanted and had very high sex drive.
However all of that changed when he left my life.
Idk if he had game but it seems like he did, cus he got my mom who was absolutely gorgeous in her 20s. And years later she was still very submisive towards him
I had cute girlfriends since I was 6. I was a dominant kid who got what he wanted and had very high sex drive.
However all of that changed when he left my life.
Idk if he had game but it seems like he did, cus he got my mom who was absolutely gorgeous in her 20s. And years later she was still very submisive towards him
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Really interesting thread that deserves a bump and a contribution from someone with a different family background.
My father is definitely a nice guy. I recently learned from my mother that he was VERY nervous on their first date. He was mumbling his words and not really looking her in the eyes. They went out for a bit before she broke up with him for what she implied was more of a bad boy. Fortunately, while she was attracted to this bloke, "some people just can't do monogamy" and she went back to my dad after a 2 year break from dating.
That's not to say my dad is a total AFC. He is the most optimistic person I have ever met, and once he gets over his initial shyness with people, he can be very funny and charismatic.
And while I think I've inherited my father's optimism, I'm more like my mother: more lower energy, but can turn up the charm in social situations.
Here's where things get interesting: Both my maternal and paternal grandparents where MASSIVE players.
My father's father was polygamist with at least five different wives in his harem according to my dad. Unfortunately, he wasn't really there for my father, and didn't manage his families well, but my dad always saw him in the company of women when he was young so at least game wise, he was pretty solid.
My mother's father, while not a polygamist, sired nine different children with eight different wives. Plus, according to my mother, he had scored of extramarital lovers in each marriage. Why he continued to marry, I'm not sure. But it's clear that he's among those that "can't do monogamy".
As for me, I was not a natural by any stretch. I was very shy around girls, but very confident in all other social interactions. Honestly it wasn't until I found girlschase my sophomore year of high school where things started to improve in that area for me.
Luckily, once I realized pretty girls were just normal human beings, I've realized that I've inherited the "can't do monogamy" gene my grandfathers possessed.
So yeah, I'd like to hear other's insights on this. It certainly makes for fascinating discussions.
- Protean
My father is definitely a nice guy. I recently learned from my mother that he was VERY nervous on their first date. He was mumbling his words and not really looking her in the eyes. They went out for a bit before she broke up with him for what she implied was more of a bad boy. Fortunately, while she was attracted to this bloke, "some people just can't do monogamy" and she went back to my dad after a 2 year break from dating.
That's not to say my dad is a total AFC. He is the most optimistic person I have ever met, and once he gets over his initial shyness with people, he can be very funny and charismatic.
And while I think I've inherited my father's optimism, I'm more like my mother: more lower energy, but can turn up the charm in social situations.
Here's where things get interesting: Both my maternal and paternal grandparents where MASSIVE players.
My father's father was polygamist with at least five different wives in his harem according to my dad. Unfortunately, he wasn't really there for my father, and didn't manage his families well, but my dad always saw him in the company of women when he was young so at least game wise, he was pretty solid.
My mother's father, while not a polygamist, sired nine different children with eight different wives. Plus, according to my mother, he had scored of extramarital lovers in each marriage. Why he continued to marry, I'm not sure. But it's clear that he's among those that "can't do monogamy".
As for me, I was not a natural by any stretch. I was very shy around girls, but very confident in all other social interactions. Honestly it wasn't until I found girlschase my sophomore year of high school where things started to improve in that area for me.
Luckily, once I realized pretty girls were just normal human beings, I've realized that I've inherited the "can't do monogamy" gene my grandfathers possessed.
So yeah, I'd like to hear other's insights on this. It certainly makes for fascinating discussions.
- Protean