Chase's article: Conservative girls vs Lover frame

[Gladiator]

@Chase thanks for responding to the request man

The level of insight you have on this subject and how you've elaborated in the article is truly astounding. I felt like finding a goldmine running into it that article.

Recently I met a conservative suburban chic and I'm texting her currently. Your article seemed like describing her lol
I met her on the street when she was returning from yoga and she was amazed that I actually approached her on the street and the way she qualifies is borderline embarrassing. If I ask her what her day was like, she details everything she did like an assignment haha. She takes exactly the same amount of time as I take where possible to respond to the minute.. it's cute and cringey. She knows I'm a bad boy cos I've set a strong lover frame and also I'm right in the face when teasing and sometimes she goes hours not responding trying to find the right response. I can sense her becoming flustered even through texts lol

I've cut down teasing a whole lot. Anyway, while the article covered everything I was looking for, you mentioned about not "playing" with them or hurting them which I don't intend to obviously but I'm not looking for a relationship either. I'd be happy to have her as a FWB but nothing more than that. Although it's a 100% lover frame, do you still think there's a risk of her catching feelings?

 

[Beck Bass]

Just cut most fluff and get down to business (as in text her to only meet her and then close).
Why would you only have her as a FWB? Are you in a phase you just don't want an LTR?

I think maybe you should be clearer, but only after sleeping with her. Don't get too stressed about it for now, but once you close, have a bit of talk explaining the situation, and be mindful of how you do it to not send her straight into autorejection (and maybe even buyer's remorse). Depending on how she acts after it you might not even need to stress about it.

If you already are talking like you two are an item, being boyfriend-ish and all that, then maybe don't be surprised if she's mad afterwards, but it happens. I don't have as much experience with conservative girls (never had the patience for prudish girls, though my current girlfriend qualifies a bit as such), but they aren't exactly little flowers that need to be absolutely taken care of like you have to marry then after sex (well, if you hint at that and then just ghost, you can see how bad karma is all on you anyway but you get the point)

Although it's a 100% lover frame, do you still think there's a risk of her catching feelings?

If you do a good job of seducing and fucking her, it's normal she'll want more. If your frame is strong enough and she likes you enough, I guess even a conservative girl can be on a bit of an open relationship/FWB type of thing for a while... But then she'll want more. It's just the normal ebb and flow of male to female (sexual) relationships.

 

[TomInHo]

Don't overthink it

Get the lay and don't be talking about relationships and commitment. The vibe should be you two are getting to know each other and if you are both compatible then you can do something "more serious"

Making no promises but be open minded to a relationships if it makes sense. Because honestly it's the truth. You don't really know the girl so how do you know for sure you want her as a girlfriend?

Because you might want her as an FWB now, then later after hanging out for a while she totally surprises you and turns out to be a dope prospect for a GF

Or on the flipside, you might want her as a GF now then later realize you both aren't compatible for something serious because of whatever reason

By the way a lot of girls operate with that frame anyways and it's a good middle ground for girls that want serious all the way to casual relationships. In fact I tell girls the above in I guess a gambit so they know what to expect with me... I'm non needy, not opposed to a relationship, but like to start things lowkey and no pressure so I don't end up in a relationship I would regret

 

[HoofHearted]

We often don't know women, and project ourselves/our assumptions onto them. You think she's a sweet, shy and timid girl... and maybe she is, but the world of sex is different for her than it is for you. She may be more experienced than you think...

Not always the case, but a possibility. There's no need to shut down an opportunity based on gaming ourselves.

However, you if you have a pretty good read on the situation, and you have experience (more than her?), and maybe a sliver of judgement that she does not have... and you ask yourself, "Is this woman getting sexually involved with me the best thing for her?" and the answer is no, or 'maybe not...'

Then you could always help her, or do her a solid. Throw the lil' minnow back into the stream. Sex isn't so scarce that we need to fuck shit up all the time, or be a fucked up thing in someone else's path.

This is actually a hard judgement call to make, imo. Because maybe often we don't know, and just bailing on situations for reasons that only exist in our head is no good, but so is being a destructive force in others' lives/journeys.

The typical argument is, "Is she at least 18? She has agency." but I find this rather fucking weak and unmanly. Yes, she is a living adult creature that gets a choice. But imo sex should be viewed as a cooperative act, and finding the fine line of maintaining boundaries (not taking control of her choices either way), and helping her out ("I just don't see how this could be good for her...") is an art form.

Communication could really help with a lot of these situations. I won't lie and say that communication is always sexy, many times it can be downright unattractive. And I can't say it'll serve your purpose of getting laid, or even maintaining any connection to this girl, there are no guarantees. However, it unfortunately is a major pillar of trust.

 

[Police dog]

We often don't know women, and project ourselves/our assumptions onto them. You think she's a sweet, shy and timid girl... and maybe she is, but the world of sex is different for her than it is for you. She may be more experienced than you think...

As someone who mostly goes after this type of girls. Yes. You might be surprised how much stuff they have already tried… Even if she is a virgin, her other 2 holes are probably not.

 

[Beck Bass]

Then you could always help her, or do her a solid. Throw the lil' minnow back into the stream. Sex isn't so scarce that we need to fuck shit up all the time, or be a fucked up thing in someone else's path.

Yeah, but that entails a whole frame of "any sex partner that I had, that I didn't get what I wanted with, long term, is a fucked up thing", for every girl, which, honestly, is just a bit... nuts? Of course, be empathetic, don't be a jerk and mislead a girl, but, by the end of the night, sex is, well, just sex. It can lead to babies, diseases, shaming, heck, even lasting emotional damage, but also long lasting, beautiful relationships (even if you weren't expecting it, when it happened). And it can also it can just be a lot of fun (and honestly, it should), and lead into nothing, being just sex for the sake of sex.

I myself met girls that had sex with me once, and regardless of the sex being mindblogging or just plain, they were able to move on much faster than I was. I was there hoping for more, and they were like "nope, I'm chill", whether that was because they knew we couldn't work long term (more like they couldn't get me to commit the way they wanted), or they just weren't very impressed or looking for anything more, they were quick to eject.

Which leads me into:

and you ask yourself, "Is this woman getting sexually involved with me the best thing for her?" and the answer is no, or 'maybe not...'

How could you possibly know the answer to that? How could she even know that? Crystal balls work now? ;D

Of course, if you feel like this girl is way too invested, and you really just wanna use her as a sex toy, please have the decency of making everything clear. But what I wanna stress is that the neutral ground, the default position for people is that people that have sex, well, are just having sex. They are not getting married, they are not even garanteed to see each other again. I mean, it's a bit of an extreme example, but say the guy dies the next day, will the girl be scarred forever emotionaly because he couldn't be with her? Does this mean they shouldn't have had sex? The guy should have died without banging her, when that was what both wanted, in the moment? lol

And yeah, op made clear his frame is "100% playboy", so she should know what to expect. People need to make their own decisions, as well, and when you just decide for a girl that she's gonna be hurt if you have sex, so you should not, you're also taking away her agency over the situation, because, for the most part, girls won't be as active seeking sex anyway. Of course, clear communication is important, but telling a girl you wanna bang her, but you worry she might catch feelings, is a bit... condescending, isn't it? I get what you mean about trust and communication, but the way things are communicated is very important, because the girl might get more offended by you telling her you just wanna fuck her and leave then you actually doing it, depending on how you say and do those things.

And again @Gladiator asks, is there's a risk of her catching feelings? Of course there is.
You don't even have to have sex with girls for them to catch feelings, sometimes (though sex potentializes feelings, for sure).
But is this gonna wreck her life? Actual consensual sex between two adults?
I think this is overblowing things... a bit.

Peace

 

[HoofHearted]

Yeah, but that entails a whole frame of "any sex partner that I had, that I didn't get what I wanted with, long term, is a fucked up thing", for every girl, which, honestly, is just a bit... nuts? Of course, be empathetic, don't be a jerk and mislead a girl, but, by the end of the night, sex is, well, just sex. It can lead to babies, diseases, shaming, heck, even lasting emotional damage, but also long lasting, beautiful relationships (even if you weren't expecting it, when it happened). And it can also it can just be a lot of fun (and honestly, it should), and lead into nothing, being just sex for the sake of sex.

I don't think it's such an extreme notion as is being presented in this reply. Rather, my response just suggest judgement, and walking a middle path.

That's also a rather narrow assumption. There's many possible situations where two people with different expectations/beliefs about sex, lack common ground, and one or the other has some sort of advantage over the other in their competing interests (be that advantage familiarity, experience, or otherwise. A fair example is the difference between older and younger women-- older women have better defenses and know the score better when it comes to men). The suggestion here is maybe to find a sexual partner where the interests are more mutual and the playing field more fair.

And, like my original post, communication and paying attention can probably reveal these things. In more practical terms, a little more related to the OP (though maybe not directly): if she's young, maybe naive, conservative and inexperienced, and sex to her is a limited experience with few people and involves intense emotional bonding-- and you are more sexually experienced, and view it more recreationally, and non-committal... I think taking a pass here makes sense. Because I know you can find sex on any number of wavelengths.

I feel like what I see a lot of times here is passing the buck. "I never said. I never promised..." kind of defense from the dude, but you kind of know what's up.

I'm not here to take any ethical measurements for anybody. But I would also say, from experience, the tools you use to navigate these situations are the same ones that also increase the *quality* of the sex you have.

How could you possibly know the answer to that? How could she even know that? Crystal balls work now? ;D

Oh but sometimes you do know. Brain: "Hey, probably not a good idea..."

Maybe just asking yourself the question might elucidate the answer more clearly. Anybody had consensual sex they probably shouldn't have had?

And yeah, op made clear his frame is "100% playboy", so she should know what to expect.

I find this particularly troublesome. Actually, hugely problematic. In my opinion, which may not be popular around here, nobody should ever "just know."

It's almost like we're implicitly planning a defense of ourselves, like lawyers in a court. And a side not, and a heuristic... when we start playing this 'lawyer' game, it's a huge sign something is neurotic/majorly wrong, and mental gymnastics are being done.

People need to make their own decisions, as well, and when you just decide for a girl that she's gonna be hurt if you have sex, so you should not, you're also taking away her agency over the situation, because, for the most part, girls won't be as active seeking sex anyway.

My original response addressed this, though. Again, I think it's a fine line. And one way to diminish any gray area is to be exactly clear what we are offering, or looking for, to see if it's a fit. People actually do this all the time-- "It would just be a physical thing."

I get what you mean about trust and communication, but the way things are communicated is very important, because the girl might get more offended by you telling her you just wanna fuck her and leave then you actually doing it, depending on how you say and do those things.

^ People do this, though. "Something casual," etc, etc.

think this is overblowing things... a bit.

Probably for the OP, I think. He doesn't strike me as especially experienced, or necessarily in such an immediate or repeated situation.

But his situation did logically lead to the general concepts. And OP certainly isn't the only one reading the replies...

 

[Will_V]

People actually do this all the time-- "It would just be a physical thing."

How many times have you said these words to a woman and she's just gone ahead and signed on the dotted line?

A lot of times you don't really know what you want tomorrow, and neither does she. And sometimes you both know what's going on, but want to be able to experience it as if there's the possibility of something more. Sex is not a logical transaction, it's mostly fantasy, and to pop the fantasy with some kind of legalistic deniability just doesn't strike me as something many women would enjoy.

I try to make it clear enough that I'm not especially looking for anything serious, by moving fast, being sexual, disqualifying myself as a boyfriend, etc. And sure, I agree there are some times where it's fairly clear that a woman is looking at things very differently from me, and I try to pay attention for that and avoid hurting her by making things extra clear. But the vast majority of times it's just two people who are caught up in the moment of a shared fantasy, an escape from reality, and nobody wants to hear it all laid out that it's going to be a one-time or only physical thing (whatever that means, none of my sexual experiences have been entirely physical).

 

[HoofHearted]

How many times have you said these words to a woman and she's just gone ahead and signed on the dotted line?

I personally have said this, or a variant of it, somewhat often.

In terms of letting my intentions be known (and I very often know what they are)-- the better I've gotten, and the better things have been for me, the more I've done so.

Not to say I'm the gold standard for what anyone around here calls 'seduction.'

But I do find what you wrote troublesome, as well, in the sense that it seems to be a mentality that exposure to/comfort with sex has forced me to grow out of it.

It's true minds and hearts change, etc, etc, and you may not know exactly what you want. But there's also almost always information to be shared, and benefit in the sharing. Probably the wrong audience for this, but there you have it. I see it more pragmatically, experentially, probably at this point more akin to the perspective of a woman who has had a lot of sex, for better or worse.

 

[HoofHearted]

In fact, in reflecting upon that...

I realize that all of my disaster, out of bounds sexual experiences have happened when I did NOT do these things (communicate, clear intent, etc).

(Which is not to say at least some of the sloppy stuff wasn't pleasurable. I would have to call it a mixed bag of generally poor quality, some of which were the worst sexual experiences and outcomes).

 

[Will_V]

I personally have said this, or a variant of it, somewhat often.

That's a pretty vague and hedging statement that doesn't communicate a whole lot of actual familiarity with what you speak about.

In terms of letting my intentions be known (and I very often know what they are)-- the better I've gotten, and the better things have been for me, the more I've done so.

Not to say I'm the gold standard for what anyone around here calls 'seduction.'

But I do find what you wrote troublesome, as well, in the sense that it seems to be a mentality that exposure to/comfort with sex has forced me to grow out of it.

It's true minds and hearts change, etc, etc, and you may not know exactly what you want. But there's also almost always information to be shared, and benefit in the sharing. Probably the wrong audience for this, but there you have it. I see it more pragmatically, experentially, probably at this point more akin to the perspective of a woman who has had a lot of sex, for better or worse.

And that's a pretty passive aggressive comment. What do you think 'anyone around here' calls seduction exactly?

 

[HoofHearted]

That's a pretty vague and hedging statement that doesn't communicate a whole lot of actual familiarity with what you speak about.

Huh. This is kind of an amusing thought. It's as though you don't believe me. And that's good skepticism. I'm also not here pretending to have any kind of authority. And certainly some of the reported numbers of sexual experiences, and situations, are outside of what I know (ie, I have not had 100 sexual partners).

Take or leave. I also find this dumb.

And that's a pretty passive aggressive comment. What do you think 'anyone around here' calls seduction exactly?

Bad boundaries and mental masturbation. Some of the more sincere posters have insights that astound me, though, and remind me there's still more to see and feel.


Edit how do i post screenshot of text convo maybe?

Here's a copy and pasted exchange with a woman I had two meetups with (initial drinks, then rollerskating. I almost fell on my ass the whole time). This is from a while back, but the entire exchange happened before we ever had sex. Sorry if it upsets anybody that I actually communicated with a woman and still had sexual experiences, I guess. I know, I know, I didn't zimzam the compliance, and I'm not attractive enough.

Edit edit the context being she seemed way more interested in monogamy than me, apparent from some conversations we had had. She was also younger, had a graduate degree, beautiful girl, etc, etc. For my part, I went on to become a giant ho. I mean, uh, even more promiscuous.

Btw my experience of this event, if I remember correctly, is that she attached *even harder* after this pre-sexual exchange.

Spoiler: Text Convo

Me: That could work. I need to check on something first, though. And also, in thinking about one of our previous comversations, I need to provide you a piece of information.

Her: Foreboding...

Me: I'm down to hang Sunday for sure. But during our conversation about 'dealbreakers' at the roller rink, I had to think lots about what you said.

Me: So I think you should know my thoughts on children. I'm not a 'no' in my life on that. But there's definitely a high degree of ambivalence. And neither children nor marriage are my immediate target, nor in my immediate future. So I thought I'd share that so you can have some information about me.

Me: I think there are guys who date and they more certainly pursue those things. One of my buddies actively seeks a wife. I am not like that, though.

Her: Ok, thanks for sharing. I think it’s very sweet that you are thinking about it so much. I want to respond to this, but I am trying to finish up a project at work so I won’t be able to give it the attention it deserves until I get home. However, know that I am not trying to force anything that isn’t there. Although that is something I am looking for in life, I only want to pursue it when it’s “right”

Her: Hey! Ok, so I want to share some thoughts below, but I also want to preface it by saying thank you for being willing to broach these topics and think about real issues… I would love to continue the conversation. Here are some of my thoughts based on what you’ve shared:
First, I really appreciate the way you think about things. I like the way your mind works and I like that you are forthcoming with your desires/hangups.

Her: As far as the marriage/babies conversation, I want to clarify that I by no means am looking for that in the immediate future. I have a ton of life goals/desires and those two are only a part of them. No doubt, they are a part of me and a part of who I am, but they by no means monopolize who I am or desire to be.

Her: When I talk about deal breakers, that means it’s a deal breaker if kids are not ever in the cards for that person (naturally or by adoption).
My other thought is, if I wanted to get “wifed up”, I would have been married a long time ago. As is, I value marriage as a commitment you make with a person who you want to share your life with. I believe in a partnership that supports and encourages one another and pushes them to try new things and always be growing. I think that marriage is this commitment to share your life with someone, but is not an endpoint or destination. Rather, it is a commitment of and TO the relationship. It is something I want, but not something I need.

Her: So… that’s heavy and maybe deeper than you bargained for… I think it’s a longer conversation, but wanted to share some thoughts!

Here's one that has the F Word in it from last few weeks. Why are they all texts??? I think I just am busy. I would rather have these conversations in person.

Spoiler: Text Convo 2

Me: Well, the 'no casual stuff' text had me wondering what you're looking for in the world at this point. I'm a bit of a similiar mind, I don't just casually fuck around, but I'm not really a 'boyfriend' either. And I want to be mindful of that with you, because people have gotten their feelings hurt.

Her: Thank you for clarifying by the way. I'm not looking for a boyfriend right now either, I've just been out of the dating game for so long that I'm not sure how to do anything else and I'm not sure what I want. Being a naturally shy person I don't trust people very easily and in turn that makes super casual things very difficult for me to get into.

 

[Conquistador]

Spoiler: Text Convo

Me: That could work. I need to check on something first, though. And also, in thinking about one of our previous comversations, I need to provide you a piece of information.

Her: Foreboding...

Me: I'm down to hang Sunday for sure. But during our conversation about 'dealbreakers' at the roller rink, I had to think lots about what you said.

Me: So I think you should know my thoughts on children. I'm not a 'no' in my life on that. But there's definitely a high degree of ambivalence. And neither children nor marriage are my immediate target, nor in my immediate future. So I thought I'd share that so you can have some information about me.

Me: I think there are guys who date and they more certainly pursue those things. One of my buddies actively seeks a wife. I am not like that, though.

Her: Ok, thanks for sharing. I think it’s very sweet that you are thinking about it so much. I want to respond to this, but I am trying to finish up a project at work so I won’t be able to give it the attention it deserves until I get home. However, know that I am not trying to force anything that isn’t there. Although that is something I am looking for in life, I only want to pursue it when it’s “right”

Her: Hey! Ok, so I want to share some thoughts below, but I also want to preface it by saying thank you for being willing to broach these topics and think about real issues… I would love to continue the conversation. Here are some of my thoughts based on what you’ve shared:
First, I really appreciate the way you think about things. I like the way your mind works and I like that you are forthcoming with your desires/hangups.

Her: As far as the marriage/babies conversation, I want to clarify that I by no means am looking for that in the immediate future. I have a ton of life goals/desires and those two are only a part of them. No doubt, they are a part of me and a part of who I am, but they by no means monopolize who I am or desire to be.

Her: When I talk about deal breakers, that means it’s a deal breaker if kids are not ever in the cards for that person (naturally or by adoption).
My other thought is, if I wanted to get “wifed up”, I would have been married a long time ago. As is, I value marriage as a commitment you make with a person who you want to share your life with. I believe in a partnership that supports and encourages one another and pushes them to try new things and always be growing. I think that marriage is this commitment to share your life with someone, but is not an endpoint or destination. Rather, it is a commitment of and TO the relationship. It is something I want, but not something I need.

Her: So… that’s heavy and maybe deeper than you bargained for… I think it’s a longer conversation, but wanted to share some thoughts!

Can we take a moment to appreciate the level of maturity in this text convo? I’m a little envious, actually.

I think for most girls and possibly most guys, though, texting isn’t the most effective way to discuss those things. Especially when you’re under 25 or 30.

 

[HoofHearted]

Maybe challenge any assumptions you have.( I am often too busy to be near these people, texting suits me).

But also I do not understand your fuckin generation with the purple hair and the youtube and the rizz.

But I can get women from Gen Z to communicate with me in substantial, articulate ways, I promise you that


Edit Oh yeah, both of those women were under thirty at the time they wrote that! Also, I am not *that* fucking old, god damn it

 

[Conquistador]

But I can get women from Gen Z to communicate with me in substantial, articulate ways, I promise you that

How? I haven’t found the secret yet.

Is it just your gravitas and authoritative frame?

Edit Oh yeah, both of those women were under thirty at the time they wrote that! Also, I am not *that* fucking old, god damn it

These days 3 years is a significant gap in terms of sub-generational stuff

 

[HoofHearted]

How? I haven’t found the secret yet.

Is it just your gravitas and authoritative frame?

The secret is, be leading. Notice I didn't wait for these women to articulate themselves to me. I built them a platform and showed them the way to speak to me. I went first.

Nuance here, obviously. And I remember being younger and dumpy meaty communication where it wasn't wanted, for example. And you can't *make* people follow you. They have to want to. And there's the real secret, wrapped up in a question.

What would make other people (women) want to follow you?

Have a think on that, youngster.

 

[topcat]

Huh. This is kind of an amusing thought. It's as though you don't believe me. And that's good skepticism. I'm also not here pretending to have any kind of authority. And certainly some of the reported numbers of sexual experiences, and situations, are outside of what I know (ie, I have not had 100 sexual partners).

Take or leave. I also find this dumb.





Bad boundaries and mental masturbation. Some of the more sincere posters have insights that astound me, though, and remind me there's still more to see and feel.


Edit how do i post screenshot of text convo maybe?

Here's a copy and pasted exchange with a woman I had two meetups with (initial drinks, then rollerskating. I almost fell on my ass the whole time). This is from a while back, but the entire exchange happened before we ever had sex. Sorry if it upsets anybody that I actually communicated with a woman and still had sexual experiences, I guess. I know, I know, I didn't zimzam the compliance, and I'm not attractive enough.

Edit edit the context being she seemed way more interested in monogamy than me, apparent from some conversations we had had. She was also younger, had a graduate degree, beautiful girl, etc, etc. For my part, I went on to become a giant ho. I mean, uh, even more promiscuous.

Btw my experience of this event, if I remember correctly, is that she attached *even harder* after this pre-sexual exchange.

Spoiler: Text Convo

Me: That could work. I need to check on something first, though. And also, in thinking about one of our previous comversations, I need to provide you a piece of information.

Her: Foreboding...

Me: I'm down to hang Sunday for sure. But during our conversation about 'dealbreakers' at the roller rink, I had to think lots about what you said.

Me: So I think you should know my thoughts on children. I'm not a 'no' in my life on that. But there's definitely a high degree of ambivalence. And neither children nor marriage are my immediate target, nor in my immediate future. So I thought I'd share that so you can have some information about me.

Me: I think there are guys who date and they more certainly pursue those things. One of my buddies actively seeks a wife. I am not like that, though.

Her: Ok, thanks for sharing. I think it’s very sweet that you are thinking about it so much. I want to respond to this, but I am trying to finish up a project at work so I won’t be able to give it the attention it deserves until I get home. However, know that I am not trying to force anything that isn’t there. Although that is something I am looking for in life, I only want to pursue it when it’s “right”

Her: Hey! Ok, so I want to share some thoughts below, but I also want to preface it by saying thank you for being willing to broach these topics and think about real issues… I would love to continue the conversation. Here are some of my thoughts based on what you’ve shared:
First, I really appreciate the way you think about things. I like the way your mind works and I like that you are forthcoming with your desires/hangups.

Her: As far as the marriage/babies conversation, I want to clarify that I by no means am looking for that in the immediate future. I have a ton of life goals/desires and those two are only a part of them. No doubt, they are a part of me and a part of who I am, but they by no means monopolize who I am or desire to be.

Her: When I talk about deal breakers, that means it’s a deal breaker if kids are not ever in the cards for that person (naturally or by adoption).
My other thought is, if I wanted to get “wifed up”, I would have been married a long time ago. As is, I value marriage as a commitment you make with a person who you want to share your life with. I believe in a partnership that supports and encourages one another and pushes them to try new things and always be growing. I think that marriage is this commitment to share your life with someone, but is not an endpoint or destination. Rather, it is a commitment of and TO the relationship. It is something I want, but not something I need.

Her: So… that’s heavy and maybe deeper than you bargained for… I think it’s a longer conversation, but wanted to share some thoughts!

Here's one that has the F Word in it from last few weeks. Why are they all texts??? I think I just am busy. I would rather have these conversations in person.

Spoiler: Text Convo 2

Me: Well, the 'no casual stuff' text had me wondering what you're looking for in the world at this point. I'm a bit of a similiar mind, I don't just casually fuck around, but I'm not really a 'boyfriend' either. And I want to be mindful of that with you, because people have gotten their feelings hurt.

Her: Thank you for clarifying by the way. I'm not looking for a boyfriend right now either, I've just been out of the dating game for so long that I'm not sure how to do anything else and I'm not sure what I want. Being a naturally shy person I don't trust people very easily and in turn that makes super casual things very difficult for me to get into.

This is all great stuff. But don’t you realize what you’re doing is simply a form of “what we call around here” screening and qualification? You do it verbally but a lot of it can also be done non verbally, in your vibe, with touch proximity etc.

You claim to be avoiding hurt by doing so, but you actually aren’t (with an air of superiority at that and as @Will_V correctly noted, a passive aggressive tone..). A girl that likes you and is actually seeking long term, will qualify to a short term frame she doesn’t necessarily agree to in the hopes that she can flip the script and hook you after fucking you a few times. This happens quite often when you’re good.. Feelings are still harmed at the end of it.

I wonder how you, o moral one, would justify this to yourself after verbalizing and stating your intentions you still find the girl hurt at the end? “well, i told you so?..”

I’m curious.

 

[Gladiator]

That was very entertaining to read...

Although this forum heavily advocates to be careful and not to hurt girls, that article that I linked has extra emphasis on that. So, had to post..

I have always been with party chics who're super outgoing and there is instant chemistry with them but even with those chics, I'm notorious for breaking their hearts.. two chics in particular incessently kept calling me until I had to block them which I feel bad even to this day.. although I explained to them and they tried their best to convince me.. out of which one chic came to my place and I had to ask her to leave (of course that was painful to do but had no choice). So, with conservative chics who I have zero experience with, I needed to know what's the right thing to do to avoid any drama..

Out of the two opinions discussed here when I posted, I dreaded the option of being vocal upfront since I think that is anti-seductive but I'm glad the general consensus seems to be to calibrate to the situation which I'm favourable of, as well (Otherwise, asking "Shall we fuck?" would've been the modus-operandi to have sex but fortunately or unfortunately it is not). Also, I have a very strong fuck-boy vibe and if I say anything verbally its only going to come across as incongruent and make it more suspicious...

P.S: Two chics who had a history of physical abuse and trauma started to cry the moment I touched them, I freaked out but they apologized for it and explained that it had nothing to do with me and explained their issues. So, after hearing their stories, I safely dropped them home in my car and asked them to seek therapy etc and wished them well. Interestingly, both of them still reached out to me after that and I declined to continue any further since I no longer had sexual attraction for them.

Attraction is a lot more complex than what we are aware of.

 

[HoofHearted]

This is all great stuff. But don’t you realize what you’re doing is simply a form of “what we call around here” screening and qualification? You do it verbally but a lot of it can also be done non verbally, in your vibe, with touch proximity etc.

You claim to be avoiding hurt by doing so, but you actually aren’t (with an air of superiority at that and as @Will_V correctly noted, a passive aggressive tone..). A girl that likes you and is actually seeking long term, will qualify to a short term frame she doesn’t necessarily agree to in the hopes that she can flip the script and hook you after fucking you a few times. This happens quite often when you’re good.. Feelings are still harmed at the end of it.

I wonder how you, o moral one, would justify this to yourself after verbalizing and stating your intentions you still find the girl hurt at the end? “well, i told you so?..”

I’m curious.

Well, neither of these two women got hurt feelings from interacting with me. And the more recent younger one is still in a sexually charged situation with me, and it's still all love.

Conversely, I think about the partners I have actually hurt. And how much of that stemmed from NOT communicating and NOT considering them-- which in my case stemmed from ignorance, a lack of education and fear in many varieties.

I wouldn't call myself more moral, but I can respect that perception of you assuming I think that, because you do not actually know me.

I do feel cooler than you, though.

Kidding aside, whatever process you want to describe my interactions, please do enjoy. I would encourage the concept of many logics, maybe pointing to a central phenomena which may very well be unnamable. But fyi those interactions flowed organically from me, they were not intellectual strategies but maybe intentions. And the first girl, I thought for sure I had lost her by sending her that. But I had own internal standards and processes to follow, which are not always crisp and on point.

There are ways that humans can feel good, and ways that humans can feel bad. May I present the notion, that as a person who has taken journeys (just as you have), there may be healthier perspectives, if we just widen our eyes to them.

 

[HoofHearted]

Oh and also 'what I was doing' was dealing another human being straight up, and not misleading her/'omission via silence' and hoping that a piece of pussy would fall off.

There are women natively seeking whatever it is we're looking for, I promise. You can spank them, make them eat pancakes off the floor or mail them $20 a week in exchange for used panties.

You can marry them and have children and call it a life.

No need to get everybody mixed up with false advertising on our part.