Chase's vs Blackdragon's Prediction

[Drck]

BlackBolt:

Most Americans wish the wealth distribution was more evenly distributed and like Sweden's... Sweden is a Democratic Socialist nation

I could keep going, the people in America want a more Democratic Socialist approach. Americans want the Scandinavian model and why not Democratic Socialist nations are the HAPPIEST on Earth

>>>> See, here is a big problem with the leftist mentality... Again, let's distinguish between great ideas and reality. Globalism is a great idea, why not. Helping people who escape from their country because of wars is a great idea. Welcoming immigrants is a great idea (heck, I am a 1st generation immigrant myself). Why not? All these are great ideas

But here comes reality. Countries such as Sweden, France and Germany opened their door to immigrants... and now they are having lots of problems. Look up Malmo (Sweden), look up all the problems they are now having because of the liberal open door policies... By pure coincidence and because of totally different interests, I've been reading about problems over there since 2005... Look up rapes and crimes caused by these immigrants. Look up how government is trying to cover up those problems, it is literally shocking. Look up Germany or France/Paris what huge problems they are now having because they let too many people in...

Many immigrants are good people, true. Most just just want to live peaceful lives. Not all though. Many don't even want to learn local language. They don't want to blend in between locals. They have no skills, they can't work, they have no desire to contribute to western society, they can't be really productive in western society... So there is lots of frustration, lots of crime... They also need health care, which is expensive... And who is paying for all that? The Locals are paying, the good and hard working people who want to live in peace are now being robbed because of those liberal policies, because of the 'open door'...

You just can't do it today. You may be able to do it in couple decades, maybe couple of hundreds of years, but not today... That is why Trump wants to build that wall, so he can stop the flood - not of good people, but BAD BAD people (as he says)...

Sweden is NOT that happy country as it is advertised, that is only another twisted news by leftist media... The leftist media don't really report the truth, they only report what is convenient and what fits into their leftist idealistic ideas...

Countries like Sweden, Germany and France are starting slowly pooping in their pants... They now have huge problems. Don't just look at pretty statistics, look at real problems that people have to deal with now...

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"Around 80% of Americans support raising the minimum wage to at least $10/hr"

The thing is, if you can make $20-25 per hour having a good and stable job with benefits, why would you even worry about minimal wage? The minimal wage jobs shouldn't be considered for long term, they are only to survive... Those should be just temporal jobs, in between say semesters in college when you are not looking for a job but need some money to get by for couple months... Bro, you don't want to build your career about minimal wage jobs, you want top paying jobs...

 

[Oskar]

* Create good jobs (and he's already created tens of thousands of jobs) in USA, not overseas
* Create a great economy again by reducing taxes and regulations, by creating lots of jobs
* Fair trade with other countries where both sides benefit
* Replace Obamacare with something better, functional
* Support law enforcement (because as it is, people respect cops less and less). Where do we want to live, in some jungle where people target cops?
* Support veterans (because after all efforts in the past administration, they are still huge problems)
* Rebuild inner cities
* Remove CRIMINAL illegal aliens (sorry for the caps, but that word is being omitted by leftist media for unknown reasons)
* Build the wall (mainly to prevent people with CRIMINAL history or intentions to enter USA)
* Clean the streets from drugs and drug dealers
* Remove ISIS and similar radicals from surface of this Earth

This isn't vision, this is pandering to the crowd. All politicians know to promise jobs, to claim to support veterans, law enforcement, reduce crime, and defeat foreign enemies. Regardless of your actual vision, these are baseline ways to get general support, especially from the republican base, who are very focused on line cutters, getting Christian "morals" encoded as national policy, and removing programs like the EPA so big business can make an even greater profit and not have to worry about "externalities" like pollution and worker's benefits. Bunch of deluded masochists, as far as I can tell.

The jobs he created: you're talking about people who work in the hotels he licensed his brand to? His Miami beach resort where he employs illegal immigrants as staff? Maybe you're talking about his signing off on expanding the Dept. of Homeland Security?

His unique vision I guess could be said to be building the wall. But that's not really vision, when you stop and think about it, as it's totally ineffective and extremely costly for the working people of America who are actually going to be paying for it. Most illegals come over by plane legally, and just overstay their legal contract. And there's already fences, cameras, etc. on the border -- a ridiculous amount. The reason so many illegals come north is more to do with their shitty economy and the US officials not enforcing laws that already exist because the US economy needs insecure laborers to pick fruit, etc. for subsistence wages. These sorts of implicit transgressions are very common.

And if he was indeed attempting to hold the media responsible for what they report, I'd be impressed. But that's clearly not what he's doing. He's most evidently pissy because he doesn't like the amount of bad press he's getting and thinks that now he's president the media should serve as his propaganda machine. To be clear, the media is his opponent, not the public's in general. His press secretary suggests painting Trump in a more "positive" light, for example. I think he may have picked a fight with something a bit too big for him.

Please inform me, what did Trump call out about the media that wasn't true? Is there even a kernel of truth of democratic value in his antagonism of the media, or does it just serve to divide people and discredit those responsible for holding him accountable to the public?

Leftist media are still giving him a chance. We're not at the point where the entire media is calling for impeachment, yet, even though it's a very popular idea. Just wait till the FBI continue working there way up his staff with the whole colluding with Russia affair. It'll be big. Talk about bad press when that shit gets aired!

No, it's not the media. The man is quickly digging his own grave with total incompetence. Hastily trying to impose blanket bans against religious groups, appointing the worst most unqualified and corrupt people as heads of departments, whose existence is basically there to deregulate them and/or defund public schools and push for most/all education to be Christian propaganda houses, threatening imposing martial law, blatantly lying on countless occasions about anything, consistently lying even about the most stupid, unecessary shit, alienating foreign allies for no fucking reason, and then projecting onto others his own incompetence, and blaming the media for all the negative press. My theory is that he's basically being set up by the republicans as their fall guy, who then can turn around and say that all the dumb shit Trump pushes through was his idea, and they were "opposed" to him from the beginning.

Actually, you know what, you're probably right. I'm probably just being confused by the media. If so -- for a third time in this thread, let me ask: when it comes down to actual facts, where am I actually wrong? Where is this "fake" reporting I keep hearing about? The list of terror attacks, Trump's team hastily whipped up, that was completely and utterly discredited immediately as bogus? Seriously... wtf are you guys even talking about?

Also, the republicans don't have a plan for replacing Obamacare. Never did, and still don't. They're delaying their own court cases that would destroy Obamacare because they're worried about the backlash against them come next election after their idiocy has killed thousands of people who depended on that coverage for their wellbeing/lives.

If Trump's "vision" are the things you think it is, it's even more depressing than I'd thought. Basically, he just stands for more of the same, with an extra dose of destroying our natural resources for short term profit, incompetent administration, self-aggrandizement, alienating our allies, pointless symbolic projects, and even more greed. Beautiful. Thanks for clearing that up for me, man.

 

[Big Daddy]

Do some digging into Trump, Ross Perot, and the "Reform Party" and you'll see that Trump is not some "random anomaly" and has actually been espousing most of his current views for decades.

Franco,

This video might be enough to convince people of this whenever you need to mention it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVJOPucMAXY

I've been reading a lot of New Yorker/Malcolm Gladwell stuff, and while interesting, it's surprising how it doesn't change anything.

I don't take any of it seriously anymore. These were all the same guys that said he was going to lose, and were blatantly wrong at the end, Caleb included. I still make a point to watch Vox's videos on YouTube when I have nothing better to do for the lulz though.

 

[Drck]

Oskar: "This isn't vision"

>>>> Hm, I am not really sure what other vision should he have, other than described? Safe country, safe streets, eliminate drugs as much as possible... Create good jobs with good benefits, and so forth. Why not?

You don't want to live in safe(r) country? If you have kids, you don't care if they are taking drugs? Don't you want them to have access to quality education (see level of education in USA in comparison to other countries, it is low). If you don't have good job, and many don't, wouldn't you want to have the opportunity to get one? If you have to pay couple hundred dollars per your health insurance every month, wouldn't you want to have lower payments and access to higher quality care?

IMO this is normal, this should be standard, not just in USA but everywhere else. What vision, in your opinion, he should have then? His vision is to 'Make America Great Again'... Great jobs, great safety, great education, great opportunities for business,...

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getting Christian "morals" encoded as national policy...

>>>> Like it or not, USA is based on Christianity. It is Christian country. If we can trust polls, about 83% Americans identify themselves as Christians. About 13% have no religion. The rest, some 4%, are Jews, Muslims, Buddhists...

Christianity had and still have huge influence on our current society. Christianity teaches morals (which doesn't necessary mean that e.g. Atheists, Buddhists, or Muslims are not moral). Christianity teaches peace, it teaches to help others who are in trouble.

This Christian country (USA) welcomes other religions, Christians accept everybody (including Muslims) with open arms. This Christian country even accepts illegal immigrants with open arms, that is how good this country is...

Let me ask you a question, do you think Muslim countries welcome Christians (or Atheists) with the same attitude? Look up the answer, Christians are being prosecuted in middle east, churches are being burnt, people are being killed because of their religious believes (see example: http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/17/world/chr ... tion-2015/)

So be very careful what you wish for, living today in Christian country such as USA is actually very good, and very safe. You (we) wouldn't be allowed to have such freedom of speech in other parts of the world, and in some you'd be even persecuted just for your (and mine as well) opinions...

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removing programs like the EPA so big business can make an even greater profit and not have to worry about "externalities" like pollution and worker's benefits.

>>>> I have nothing against profits. If I had a business, I would like to make great profits. I would like to make tons of money, while being fair to others and employees. I hope everybody can make good profits, and if not, have at least great and well paid jobs...

Why? Because the more people prosper the better the overall country is. The great country then sets an example to other countries that are not so fortunate...

As far as EPA, here it is not so clear. Nobody wants to breathe smog or drink poisoned water. We all want to live in clean environment. If you actually listen to what Trump says directly (and not liberal media commentators that only chose what is convenient for their agenda), you wouldn't miss that he wants and talks about CLEAN energy, including CLEAN coal...

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The jobs he created: you're talking about people who work in the hotels

>>>> And why not? What is wrong with hotel jobs? Many people like hotel jobs. Hotels need to be build, which gives jobs to engineers and construction workers, maintenance guys. Somebody needs to clean up filthy beds. Somebody has to bring the construction material, which give jobs to truck drivers, loaders and warehouses. Somebody has to build and maintain infrastructure so the trucks can actually get where they need to go, somebody needs to feed the truckers and fix their trucks, so they have to open new trucks stops or restaurants... so right there there are lots of other jobs associated with hotel jobs, and so fort... It is all interconnected...

And who is going to pick up the strawberries for hotels from all the fields, if all illegal workers are removed? I have a great idea: there is 94 millions of people that are able to work but don't. Good half of them would be great strawberry pickers, I'd give them $10 per hour in stead of welfare or unemployment, and the top 20% pickers will deserve raise up to $12 per hour - while their taxes would be cut to 50% of today's numbers... There! What a Great Vision for people who "can't find job"! That's a joke, let them build strawberry-picking robots instead...

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His unique vision I guess could be said to be building the wall. But that's not really vision, when you stop and think about it, as it's totally ineffective and extremely costly for the working people of America who are actually going to be paying for it. Most illegals come over by plane legally, and just overstay their legal contract.

>>>> Walls actually do work. Great Walls work better. Check out Chinese Wall, or barb wires around the countries that were under protection of former Soviet Union. None of the western imperialist including Trump were able to get in at that time, and none of the communists were able to get out. Those walls worked just great!

But this wall will be little bit different. This Great Trump Wall will have doors in. People will walk in and walk out through the door. GOOD people, not BAD people. BAD people will be shipped out and they won't be allowed back in...

But who are all these BAD people Trump is talking about? I don't think that it is grandma that emigrated to USA 30 years ago and still doesn't speak a word English. Nobody probably cares about that grandma, or her grand children who grew up in states, or her sons who are strawberry pickers that work for $6 per hour in heat all they long.... BAD people mean criminals, thieves, murderers, gang members,... People who import and sell drugs to Americans, to your children... And also people who want to get to USA and blow up anything they can, just because Americans don't agree with their religious believes...

IMO not bad vision either, I believe that it is doable, but let's see the reality - give him couple years, that is only fair... Considering all the cost included (removing drugs, criminals, saving on courts and prisons, saving on drug addiction ...), the wall might be actually quite cheap, even if American taxpayers had to pay for all of it...

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Please inform me, what did Trump call out about the media that wasn't true?

>>>> Because it is all negative. The whole left and liberal media is so negative. Have you listened to any of the Trump speeches? Many times he prompted the cameras to turn around and show how the crowds are huge. Who knows, there were thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of excited people. None of it was shown on TV. But what the liberal media show? They show couple hundred protesters. They show how he talks about grabbing pussy. They talk about his bankruptcies in stead of successes...

They don't show that he built multiple very successful businesses, that he created many good jobs for tens of thousands of people. What they show is that he filed for bankruptcy....

The list goes on and on... We have to understand that Trump is a businessman. Some business work better, others don't. If something doesn't work, well, you can keep doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results, or you can move on and try something else.

I'll tell you what is success:
* The guy works his ass off, I don't know how much but apparently 7 days a week. That is a huge success, because it tells me that he LOVES what he does, he is not just clocking hours in. He could retire, in stead he invested his money, time and effort into becoming a politician. Big Ego, Narcissism? Probably, but why not? But he also Loves this country
* The guy created Empire. Perhaps he was given 1 million dollars in the past from his dad. So what? If I had 1 million I would also give it to my children. Today he has some 10 billion dollars. That is a huge success, not many can do that
* He has already employed tens of thousands of people. In hotel industry, you say? So what? Those are real jobs, real people, real salary
* He wants to DO things, not just talk about them like all other politicians
* Clearly and loudly supporting military, cops and law is success. I don't want to live in unsafe country where kids can't run on their own for longer than 5 minutes, because they will be either kidnapped by perverts or sold drugs to...
* He is a great negotiator. He has already negotiated with many big US companies to return to USA and hire American workers, that only within the past couple of weeks. That is a success, Obama didn't even try anything like that
* He beat up top notch Republican candidates, sharp, bright, outspoken, experienced, you name it... One after another, he knocked them down. He won the Republican nomination. What else? He also beat up the Clinton machine. That is a HUGE success, as we can see, many leftists can't still accept that... TRUMP WON! He is a Winner, exactly as he said. Get used to it, move on... Give him a chance and time to build now...

Show me another person whose done something like that... yet liberal media continue to paint him as a loser... He's not outspoken... He hasn't been there even for 2 months, he didn't even get a chance to show what he really wants to do, he doesn't even have his full cabinet approved so his hands are still tied... Why is that? Impeachment - for what? What has he done so horrible that he has to be impeached after just 5 weeks? Why are all the celebrities (Nero, Madonna, A. Judd,...) crying and whining, for what? They never held a real job, they have no clue what is it to be working for salary... For God's sake, they are not even smart, they are just plainly average when they open their mouth... Stop making stupid people famous...

The whole Left is just so negative, it doesn't even make sense... It is insanity...

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Man, Oskar, you are very smart guy... Open your eyes, you are just being brainwashed by leftist media...

 

[Oskar]

Dude, Trump has his hand so far up your ass it's not even funny. You're so entrenched in your ideology that you can't even face facts, and instead seem compelled to go on and on about meaningless abstractions. "Trump is a businessman!" "Trump is a this, Trump wants that. Trump may be [full of shit], but he looovvves America. Just give him a chance, man". LOL. Besides your claims being misleading at best, and totally spurious at worst, that's all besides the point.

As I said to Franco, the "so-called" leftist media do in fact generally deal with actual facts. They're not the ones making shit up. Trump is. They're not the ones who keep saying shit and then having to cover their asses by pretending like they said something else (e.g. Trump suggesting there was a terror attack in Sweden when there wasn't, him and his administration making up terror attacks that didn't even happen, etc., then turning around and saying the media is saying that Sweden has no problems, which they're not. His administration aren't even good at masking their ineptitude!)

You seem to be in shock, stuck in Trump's campaign times, when the illusion of him being even half-competent could still be maintained.

If you insist on living up your own/Trump's ass, be my guest. The rest of the world is going to continue looking at your silly "alternative" facts and empty pandering, circle jerking about how "he loves America", shake our heads, and go on with our lives. You... I pity you... because apparently you're stuck living in that echo chamber all the time.

Great, your guy is "successful". If you keep repeating that to yourself enough does that make his inept, unconstitutional policy's, blubbering on about "fake media", and likely collusion with Russia go away? No, no no, don't investigate that! That's fake news... obviously. Hillary colluding with Russia, though -- STOP THE PRESS!... The new slogan for the Republicans should be "party over country, every time".

Btw, you still have not shown me where I am actually wrong when it comes down to facts. All you've said is that the "leftist media" (like the "far-left" BBC... lol) is "negative" about the man and his actions.

Hmm, I wonder why your echo chamber suggests that? Probably couldn't be because Trump and his ilk are afraid the "so-called leftist/far-left media" will report on the actual facts, and be critical where criticism is due? No, it must be because they just are so fascinated on making shit up and blaming other's when they get caught lying. Projection much, Mr. President?

I can't even blame them during the times when they are being overly-critical. Besides being completely and obviously an incompetent leader, picking a fight with the media and then being all "You started it, boohoo", and attempting to pass shoddy executive orders, the guy is a lazy, small-minded, serial-lying, narcissistic, one-dimensional gorilla, who parachuted down into every position he's ever had, silver-spoon in hand.

And the US is a Christian nation is it? Go fuck yourself. We're a free nation, and don't let FOX news tell you otherwise. Division of church and state, motherfucker.

As I said, all you Trump supporters seem capable of doing at this point is pointing your fingers elsewhere ("But, but, Obama did blah blah blah more word vomit..."), willfully rejecting indisputable facts, and ignoring all criticism.

"It's only fair that we give him a couple of years tho..."

Is this what FOX is saying to you guys these days? Where the fuck was this shit when Obama was in office? The Republican's hypocrisy is really quite amazing.

The amount of projection and hypocrisy Trump supporters dish out would be funny if it weren't so damned "Sad".

 

[Drck]

Dude, you are not thinking rationally at all.

I listen to what Trump says, the whole speech, not only parts. When you listen to the whole speech first, and then you watch what leftist media make out of it, you will see that those are two different stories

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Let's see, what did Obama do in the past 8 years, other than blaming Bush? Let's recap important issues:

* He doubled the debt, from approx 9 trillions to 19 trillions (not in the mood to look up the exact numbers). Is this a fact or lie? He doubled the debt, and what does he have to show for it? Nothing. Economy is staggering, people can't find good jobs, they have to work jobs they don't really want for less money... True or not?

* Obamacare is collapsing. It doesn't work. It doesn't really have to be repealed, some 2 more years and it will go croak on its own.... No, people can't see their doctors and they can't keep their insurance they like, that was just a clever selling feature. I don't believe that it was a lie, Obama claimed it because he believed that his ideology will work. Again, great ideology - but impractical in real life. The cost of healthcare goes up despite all the promises... People now have to pay fine for not getting something they don't even want. Is this a fact or lie?

* There is some 10 millions more Americans on food stamps now than prior to Obama's taking office. True or not? There is more poverty in America after 8 years of Obama - true or not?

* There is record of more than 94 millions of Americans "out of work force" at the end of Obama's administration. Some 14 more millions than when he started, when he took office it was some 80 millions. True or Lie?

* There is more racial divisions than there was before Obama took office. True or lie?

* What happened to all the great programs, the "Summer of Recovery", shovel ready jobs or cash for clunkers? Nothing happened to it, none of it worked after billions of dollars were spent. True or Not? Where is the money?

* Taxes are record high under Obama, just see the graph yourself:
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ter ... 2933372906

* Middle east... Another disaster. By Obama's withdrawing troops from Iraq DESPITE all the warnings of generals, he created a vacuum for groups like ISIS. Middle East is in flames now, unstable, people are being persecuted, there are millions of refugees trying to escape that mess... Most of them are good and peace loving people, but there are some that are not...

... So debt has doubled, taxes are record high, healthcare is dysfunctional and collapsing, record of people are "out of work force" (simply unemployed, twist is as much as you want), Middle East is in flames, US Military is weakest as ever, cops are being targeted by thugs, and the country is divided more than ever...

That is not Trump's fault brother, that is fault of previous president...

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I don't really watch leftist media, but tell me: Do they discuss any of the above facts? How much time do they spent on discussing the above? I bet ZERO time. They don't talk about it at all, because they are busy 24/7 spending all their time on blaming Trump - for trying to fix that mess...

You tell me, what does Trump have to do with all that mess? For God's sake, he's in the office just 5 weeks, yet leftists want to already impeach him - and place to the office another democrat, exactly the same like Obama... More spending, more taxes, more dysfunctional programs...

Give me a break, that is truly brilliant... Every logically thinking person must know that this leftist agenda is insanity...

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Anyway, what other fact do you have, what was so great on Obama, what has he actually accomplished in the past 8 years? Let me guess: It is all Bush's fault... ridiculous...

As you can see, this doesn't even have to do anything with Trump, any other candidate would inherit exactly the same mess...

Good Day

 

[Jake10]

Oskar I don't know where you're from but you have a very common swedish name so you may be a swede after all. But if you're not let me tell you a few things about Sweden.

We just hit the 10 million mark for our population, around 30% are second or first generation immigrants. 1 million of Sweden's citizens are living on welfare. Our crime rate is outrageously high. Honor crimes are common as well. We have over 70 No go-zones atm and growing. Daily rapes by immigrants, gang rapes on little kids, even the boys in the refugee camps are being targeted. I can't name more than maybe five people that got exiled for their hidieous crimes they committed. Instead they get very linear sentences, i've read a lot of verdicts which ended up with just community services for rape! Some rapists even gets released. And in the best case scenario they get 5-8 years and get out in 3 years for good behaviour.

I live in one of the better parts of Sweden, almost 99% white and way upper middle class. When I go to school downtown it's not rare that I see more people with burqa than girls without (not kidding). It's like I traveling to the Middle East just going to school every morning. It's surreal. When me and my friends just were out in the city walking to a bar we pass 8 guys. They call us "swedes" when said by immigrants in the local tongue is like calling a black person for the N-word. They punched two of my friends in the stomach and just laughed and ran away. We didn't do anything to them, never seen them before in our lifes and just passed them on the sidewalk. In my gym close to home I hear more arabic being spoken than swedish. I read "alternative" media and see the true sweden by myself everyday. I try to talk to my friends, classmates etc, to stop being so naïve about immigrants. I just get called nazi, racist, facist among other things.

I WISH we had a politican like Trump in Sweden. I don't care what the media says about him but he's honest about immigrants. He's better than any other politician we have. The police have gotten an order from their superiors, called code 291. Which means if a crime is commited by an immigrant or with different ethnic background they shall not mention it in the report. I can't stand the media as well. They are covering up everything that is happening and just shove down leftist propaganda down our throats.

And as Drck mentioned earlier, Malmö (Malmo) is a lost city. Weekly shootings in a city of 300.000 people, over 50% non etchnical swedes. With 14.8% unemployment rate, highest in the entire country. You see a correlation? Our country is trying to survive on borrowed money. We have taken in OVER 30.000 "minors" from the Middle East just the past 2 years. Our goverment doesn't even check their age because it's "racist", so almost everyone just say they lost their papers, and say they are 15 years or younger. This way they can't get deported. We have worse male to female ratio than China! Just last week there was a brawl in the middle of the city with over 40 "teenagers". There are open drug trade on severeal schools which now have police protection similar to the US. If you read this far and still think you americans should adopt the Scandinavian approach to Socialism. Which is going great for us (according to media), go ahead. Name one country who has let in this many immigrants and succeded to integrate them to the society which let them in.

 

[Oskar]

Oskar I don't know where you're from but you have a very common swedish name so you may be a swede after all. But if you're not let me tell you a few things about Sweden.

We just hit the 10 million mark for our population, around 30% are second or first generation immigrants. 1 million of Sweden's citizens are living on welfare. Our crime rate is outrageously high. Honor crimes are common as well. We have over 70 No go-zones atm and growing. Daily rapes by immigrants, gang rapes on little kids, even the boys in the refugee camps are being targeted. I can't name more than maybe five people that got exiled for their hidieous crimes they committed. Instead they get very linear sentences, i've read a lot of verdicts which ended up with just community services for rape! Some rapists even gets released. And in the best case scenario they get 5-8 years and get out in 3 years for good behaviour.

I live in one of the better parts of Sweden, almost 99% white and way upper middle class. When I go to school downtown it's not rare that I see more people with burqa than girls without (not kidding). It's like I traveling to the Middle East just going to school every morning. It's surreal. When me and my friends just were out in the city walking to a bar we pass 8 guys. They call us "swedes" when said by immigrants in the local tongue is like calling a black person for the N-word. They punched two of my friends in the stomach and just laughed and ran away. We didn't do anything to them, never seen them before in our lifes and just passed them on the sidewalk. In my gym close to home I hear more arabic being spoken than swedish. I read "alternative" media and see the true sweden by myself everyday. I try to talk to my friends, classmates etc, to stop being so naïve about immigrants. I just get called nazi, racist, facist among other things.

I WISH we had a politican like Trump in Sweden. I don't care what the media says about him but he's honest about immigrants. He's better than any other politician we have. The police have gotten an order from their superiors, called code 291. Which means if a crime is commited by an immigrant or with different ethnic background they shall not mention it in the report. I can't stand the media as well. They are covering up everything that is happening and just shove down leftist propaganda down our throats.

And as Drck mentioned earlier, Malmö (Malmo) is a lost city. Weekly shootings in a city of 300.000 people, over 50% non etchnical swedes. With 14.8% unemployment rate, highest in the entire country. You see a correlation? Our country is trying to survive on borrowed money. We have taken in OVER 30.000 "minors" from the Middle East just the past 2 years. Our goverment doesn't even check their age because it's "racist", so almost everyone just say they lost their papers, and say they are 15 years or younger. This way they can't get deported. We have worse male to female ratio than China! Just last week there was a brawl in the middle of the city with over 40 "teenagers". There are open drug trade on severeal schools which now have police protection similar to the US. If you read this far and still think you americans should adopt the Scandinavian approach to Socialism. Which is going great for us (according to media), go ahead. Name one country who has let in this many immigrants and succeded to integrate them to the society which let them in.

No one is claiming that Sweden doesn't have problems. The issue with Trump and Sweden is that he claimed there was a terrorist attack when there wasn't one. The media reported on it, corrected him, and he then claimed that they were saying Sweden didn't have any problems because of immigrants. It's that cut and dry. End of discussion. Now, if you want to talk about the problem of immigration to the EU, I'd be glad to discuss it. But just know that you are in no way refuting anything I've said by doing so.

Immigration to Sweden is a complicated issue, and I have seen it first hand in Sweden and in Finland, the problems that arise from this. There is no easy solution.

Please, don't even suggest it... a politician like Trump or Le Pen in Sweden would be very bad. It'd be worse. Trump plans on screwing Mexico's economy so bad that even more immigrants will start to come. The cause of immigration is shit economic conditions. His face is the ideal recruiting image for groups like ISIS. Al Qaeda loves him. People like this in power, who cannot perceive the nuance in foreign and immigration policy are the worst thing we could imagine for dealing with terrorism and illegal immigration. Their inane "plans" and fearmongering will only make things worse.

Western powers are responsible for the overthrow of democratic governments in countries like Iran and Chile; we are the ones who are arming the fucking world, like the Saudis, who then turn around and sell the weapons to the terrorists, ISIS and the like. The West is the cause of their own refugee crisis, which isn't going to go away by building giant walls or turning away victims of genocide at the border because they bring higher rates of crime, etc. I for one am thoroughly opposed to green cards for jihadists and their ilk, but think zenophobia is an equally huge problem in Europe, and that the latter is more likely to destroy us than the actual refugees (who make up a very small number of the total population of Sweden, in reality). We have a duty to accept the refugees that we can, whose refugee status is not their choice -- they are desperate, and our Western foreign policies are a large factor in their situation. These are people, not dogs. Buck up, friend -- things aren't quite so bad yet. And apparently things need to get worse before they get better. Let's for the time being stand up against zenophobia, but be extra vigilant about being blinded by liberal "let them all come!" bias as well.

 

[Jake10]

but think zenophobia is an equally huge problem in Europe, and that the latter is more likely to destroy us than the actual refugees (who make up a very small number of the total population of Sweden, in reality).

Small number? That's the funniest thing i've read this year. Thank you for the laugh! We take in around 1-1.5% of our own population each year, mostly people from the Middle East. We take in more than Germany if we count per capita!

But I agree that the refugee crisis is on our hands (the west). But still, you don't know the situation in Sweden right now. Our politcians are avoiding everything that has to do with immigration. If you think the democrats in the US are PC you have seen nothing. Freedom of speech is no longer a right in Sweden, if you don't agree with the establishment you're a neo-nazi. Our prime minister said in a political debate not long ago that our 3rd (probably 2nd right now) biggest party is a Nazi party and it's voters. I know this is off-topic but I just had to rant, I don't want people to follow us, Sweden. In the future we will be a warning example for the rest of the world that open borders doesn't work along free welfare and benefits.

 

[Oskar]

but think zenophobia is an equally huge problem in Europe, and that the latter is more likely to destroy us than the actual refugees (who make up a very small number of the total population of Sweden, in reality).

Small number? That's the funniest thing i've read this year. Thank you for the laugh! We take in around 1-1.5% of our own population each year, mostly people from the Middle East. We take in more than Germany if we count per capita!

But I agree that the refugee crisis is on our hands (the west). But still, you don't know the situation in Sweden right now. Our politcians are avoiding everything that has to do with immigration. If you think the democrats in the US are PC you have seen nothing. Freedom of speech is no longer a right in Sweden, if you don't agree with the establishment you're a neo-nazi. Our prime minister said in a political debate not long ago that our 3rd (probably 2nd right now) biggest party is a Nazi party and it's voters. I know this is off-topic but I just had to rant, I don't want people to follow us, Sweden. In the future we will be a warning example for the rest of the world that open borders doesn't work along free welfare and benefits.

Only 12% of immigrants are refugees though. I thought we were talking about refugees, not immigration in general.

I know the situation in Sweden right now, and agree that there is a problem. I also agree that the Swedish gov is overly accepting of immigrants, which has to do at least in part with the extremely welcoming, friendly nature of Swedes in general. Though, a bigger part of it is that other countries are passing the buck onto us as well, so we have to take more than our fair share while others like the US refuse to take practically any responsibility for the crisis whatsoever.

There is still time for us to address this issue without extreme right-wing suppression and mindless zenophobia. There are far better solutions still on the table.

 

[Jake10]

Only 12% of immigrants are refugees though. I thought we were talking about refugees, not immigration in general.

I know the situation in Sweden right now, and agree that there is a problem. I also agree that the Swedish gov is overly accepting of immigrants, which has to do with the extremely welcoming, friendly nature of Swedes in general. Though, a big part of it is that other countries are passing the buck onto us as well, so we have to take more than our fair share while others like the US refuse to take practically any responsibility for the crisis whatsoever.

There is still time for us to address this issue without extreme right-wing suppression. There are far better solutions still on the table.

So it seems that you're are Swedish after all.

If so, I can't believe how calm you seem to be to this problem and have such an open mind. I respect your opinion but would really wanna know how we should deal with this problem we're facing. Right now I can't see a way forward without taking extreme measures, like cutting benefits and welfare. Refugees and immigration in whole is almost the same. I agree that countries should take in refuguees. But a lot of the problem is in the other immigrations coming in with them. Just look how many people who doesn't really have Asylum reasons that stays without getting deported.

And the Left is trying to silence any oppossions against their liberal agenda. Just look how the Left handled Trump's win in the US. Look in Sweden and in France. The reason why the Right wing is growing with this rapid pace is their own fault. They call everyone else facists, but they are the real Brown Shirts.

 

[Oskar]

As I said, I don't think there is any easy solution. Extreme measures may be necessary to preserve the Sweden we know and love. From a totally nationalist basis, there aren't many great options. I think an International movement is necessary. A serious policy change in the EU is key, based, for one thing, around an understanding that Jihadists are only allowed temporary, visitor status, if that.

But to actually solve the refugee crisis, we need to deal with the problem at it's source. Which means supporting foreign economies, supporting democracies instead of repressing and toppling them around the world, and creating policy that is based around preserving our core enlightenment values instead of undermining them. One thing we could do is to say, "you guys are welcome to stay here until you're safe to go back home, and we can even be friends, but don't get too comfortable, because as much as we may like you or get along with you (or disagree, etc.) on a personal level, to preserve our country and the values it's based on, we really can't manage this number of new people, especially people who outwardly don't respect our values and want to undermine them."


I don't know what you mean about the left handling Trump's victory in the US. In that most people now think he's incompetent, along with many people who actually voted him in? I don't think the liberals are the real Brown Shirts, though I've heard that thrown around by the alt-right a lot, which is pretty schoolyard game-like to me. "You're a brown-shirt", "NO you are!" Very silly going both ways. Trump is not a fascist, though most racists, zenophobics, and authoritarian-lovers do support him, and he most certainly is trying to crack down on the free press; trying to pressure them into a subservient role to his administration. The free press is important for the functioning of democracy, so when the newly elected president attacks that, of course, nobody is really very happy with that, except those who delude themselves and pretend like what he's really doing is somehow a positive thing for democracy and not a threat to it. I've been in the US for a while now, and I can tell you, most people I meet are worried and afraid about what bad ideas Trump will try and enact -- on a daily basis. 1 in 10 people I meet actually support him, and they mostly are just vindictive, masochistic, misguided individuals living in FOX News Land or people who just want to appear "edgy" and don't really understand the nuances of policy making and diplomacy (kind of like Trump himself, in that regard). I assure you, him and his incompetent, corrupt administration are the greatest threat to the US right now, not immigrants, not terrorists.

 

[Jake10]

I see your points, and I agree with some of them. But that he attacked the press I believe is a good thing actually. He questions the establishment. Just look at the media in Sweden. The media has an responsiblity to report what happens in the world. But when such a big part of the population trust the media blindly and they are so biased it creates an enviorment where discussions about controversial topics isn't happening because a different opinion than the PC one is "wrong". That's how it's been in Sweden and West for the past years. I talked with a lot of people in my age and not a single one get their information outside of the regular left media sites. They are clueless about almost everything that is happening, except Trump is a Facist, Nazi etc. They are so incredible gullible. That Trump attacks the press has made a lot of people doubt the mass media and going finding other sources of information as well. Then after researching both sides people now reach a conclusion based on information and not "feelings" and other PC bs they have been fed for years.

We have to come to drastic changes in the world quickly and this is probably the fastest way to get there. It already has opened a lot of doors lately which is positive.

 

[Richard]

Actually just had a talk about this with a few friends last night; the notion seems to be that the Generation Xers and millennials are too liberal and people are starting to sway away from that because it's a little too extreme. So, liberal ideas are running rampant and people are wanting to reign that in by being more conservative - that's the trend I've been seeing more and more of. Keep in mind I don't follow politics too closely but am frequently around people who's lives revolve around it and I get a pretty varied collection of views.

-Richard

 

[Oskar]

Do people really trust the media blindly though? I think people calling Trump a Nazi etc. is more a way for them to articulate their frustration, which they don't know how to convey in more complex ways.

Does Trump's attack on the media actually benefit the media and the people? I don't see how it could. By making people read Brietbart and watch FOX more? By taking his word on things -- a man who consistently lies about even the smallest most pointless things?

Anyone who is reporting on Trump's Russia ties are banned from press conferences, while his sycophants are elevated to mainstream status when they clearly are not ready for that status. My guess is that it's President Bannon who's behind the attacks against the media, not Trump, really.

How is increasing the mouthpiece of sycophantic stations like FOX and Brietbart beneficial for improving things? Of the whole lot, those ones have some of the worst records for journalistic integrity out there. I admire your optimism, but I just don't see the Trump administrations actions in such rose colored glasses.


:::Richard::

What do you think being more conservative means, vs being more liberal? Cuz the alt-right are clearly not fiscal conservatives -- supporting pointless projects that will cost billions of dollars, and wanting to increase statist intervention into the economy. What liberal ideas are running rampant, in your opinion, and how are conservative ones resolving them?

I hear lots of people say they are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. Basically: I like smoking weed, but fuck poor people. Funny lot, them.

 

[Drck]

We, normal people, should be at war with Leftist Liberal media at this time. They don't report the truth. They purposely omit important facts, while emphasizing less important facts, in some occasions they are perhaps directly lying, they are not reporting the truth as it is. They have a clear agenda. None of them holds Obama accountable for what he did (or rather didn't), how much money he wasted, how much debt he created, how many more people are on welfare or can't find a job ...

Why not? What are they hiding? Why aren't they demanding answers? To them, Obama is just a cool dude who can give great speeches... So who cares how much tax payers money he wasted? Who cares that millions of refugees and ISIS are his (and Clintons) creations?

There, investigate this, demand answers to what happened to all the trillions of dollars that disappeared under Obama, make him accountable for every single dollar: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ter ... 0000000000

The Leftist media are insane. They are some sort of suicidal psychotics, they want to give a lovely hug to the wild bear, not realizing that the bear doesn't give a damn about them, because the bear is just a wild fucking animal...

 

[Oskar]

Take off the tinfoil hat, Drck. Sheesh...

You are, and seem addicted to, making completely baseless, untrue/disconnected claims. What are these important facts that are being "omitted"? From what you say, it sounds like the important facts are that all of Trump's failures and shit policy-making, etc. is Obama's fault. So the news should rail on and on about Obama? Some of them already do -- like Fox, for example -- and usually in very misleading, only partially true/completely false ways. But that's Trump supporters for you (and Republicans in general) -- usually completely unwilling to deal with any truths that don't support their party's agenda unless they have no other choice, incapable of understanding that they've been duped, and always blaming others for their candidate's ineptitude, corruption, and stupidity.

Anyway, you do realize it's called "News" for a reason, right? Obama isn't prez anymore. Trump is. Those "insane" Leftist news stations. They should be blaming Obama for all our problems like us "normal people" do! That's what a free press would look like...

To be clear, I'm not a huge fan of Obama -- who continued and expanded some of the worst policies of the Bush administration -- but compared to the clown currently in office, it makes Obama looks like a million bucks in comparison.

Trump's idea of accurate reporting is one that "praises him" (in Sean Spicer's words)

 

[Drck]

Oskar, I clearly named all the problems. The debt... ISIS, problems in Middle East... Problems in USA, divided country more than ever..... The clear DENIAL of Leftist media, even in your own country, Sweden... Why aren't Media reporting that? That is their job. They should be seeking answers, they should be aggressively demanding explanations from politicians, no matter whether it is Obama, Clinton or Trump, or politicians in Sweden...



In stead, they are minimizing it, they don't spent any time on these issues.... The left media is overly friendly with Obama and Clinton, yet they can't stand Trump... That is not journalism... Guess what, the friendly approach doesn't work, the left became insane.... the left goes after Trump, not realizing that Trump want to save their own ass...

Leftists are full of tolerance for gays, lesbians, minorities... ok, no problem... But Just go to a Muslim country and see how long you survive over there as a gay or lesbian, as a minority, as atheist or Buddhist.... (don't do it, they will remove your body from your thinking (hopefully) organ).... Yet it is the leftists who want to keep open wide borders and accept people from these regions in, the more the better....

There is no logic, there is no thinking... You see on your own eyes what is happening in your country, Sweden... You guys have huge problems there.... Yet you are totally cool with it...???

Do you - son of one of the best warriors that ever lived on this Earth, Vikings - actually have any balls? Or have you became just another apologetic sheep, unable to think, unable to lead, yet only follow Leftist insanity?

What happened to great Vikings anyway, why are women in power these days in that area?

Your Leftist media and government is denying everything, minimizing, producing purposely false statistics... Deflecting from real numbers,.. As if nothing happened, as if nothing is happening!! As if everything is cool and none of is true... I'll tell you something, I am aware about this problem in Sweden for some 10+ years as I used to have heated discussions about Swedish healthcare system at that time... It was very similar to this issues, scewed statistics, poorly reported data, minimized problems... all is just cool, if you ask real question you are a racist, brown shirt, ...

10 years it took for somebody to finally start talking the truth, I haven't heard anything about it till just recent months here in states., not even FoxNews reported anything... . Why is that? People need to know, reporters need to report what is really happening... We don't want reporters opinions, opinions are useless, whether left or right. We want to see what is really happening...

Report either the Truth - or let there be a War on media, there is nothing in between... Current Leftist media are mostly useless, and they have been for years...

 

[Richard]

We, normal people, should be at war with Leftist Liberal media at this time. They don't report the truth. They purposely omit important facts, while emphasizing less important facts, in some occasions they are perhaps directly lying, they are not reporting the truth as it is. They have a clear agenda. None of them holds Obama accountable for what he did (or rather didn't), how much money he wasted, how much debt he created, how many more people are on welfare or can't find a job ...

Why not? What are they hiding? Why aren't they demanding answers? To them, Obama is just a cool dude who can give great speeches... So who cares how much tax payers money he wasted? Who cares that millions of refugees and ISIS are his (and Clintons) creations?

There, investigate this, demand answers to what happened to all the trillions of dollars that disappeared under Obama, make him accountable for every single dollar: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ter ... 0000000000

The Leftist media are insane. They are some sort of suicidal psychotics, they want to give a lovely hug to the wild bear, not realizing that the bear doesn't give a damn about them, because the bear is just a wild fucking animal...

To be fair, Drck, the president is only a single person with limited power. In the broad scope of things, I don't think Obama was substantial or expendable; I don't hold him in high regard but I don't think he completely failed either. History will likely call him just another president like Coolidge or Johnson.

It never seemed like he had a particular direction in mind for the country and I think he failed to completely stop the bleeding from the situation he went into; the U.S. economy had mixed growth and failure across different economic platforms. Under Obama the stock market performed exceedingly well, for instance. Also, you cannot hold him totally responsible because during his presidency there was abnormally low federal income, the Bush tax cuts, SS, Medicare, etc. continued to increase in price and we were involved in two wars (which started before Obama took office), etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 17202782e3

Like I said, I don't hold Obama totally responsible for what's happened because he took office and had to deal with the mistakes of his predecessors. That being said, I don't think the solutions he came up with to problems were entirely effective and their net effects are probably negligible. It'll be interesting to see what the books say about Obama in another 20 years when the facts are more concrete. Again, I think he'll be just another president who did some good things and some bad things but nothing makes him a total oaf or a rockstar of a president.

-Richard

 

[Oskar]

Debt, Isis, The Middle East, problems in the USA -- literally topics that are covered ad nauseaum by basically all mainstream media sources.

Specifically, what do you think the "left wing media" aren't reporting? I'm asking you to provide specific examples.

Man, you get on these rants that keep proving everything I've been saying. It's frankly embarassing to even go on for me, because you keep proving my point in spades.

Where does the media claim to want "wide open borders!". This, for the rest of you reading this, is a wonderful, textbook example of how ideology crafts strawmen and tribalism undermines reason.

Practically no one on the left is "cool" with illegal immigration, and even if they were (both "completely" left biased and in favor of completely open borders), that would still be no excuse for supressing them (which Trump, btw, is failing miserably at doing -- magazines like The NY Times are doing better than they have in years because he doesn't understand how the Streisand effect works).

You are being completely ridiculous. Trump wants to enact new immigration control measures, measures, which, btw, are criticized not because they are "strong", but because they are obviously completely ineffective at achieving there stated goals, and will most likely make things worse for the US in the long run through antagonism, ill-conceived economic consequences, etc. It's all about the "image" for this guy. He wants to appear "strong" on immigration, but many of his proposals so far have been inane, incredibly costly, some even deemed unconstitutional, short-sighted, and worst of all, totally ineffective. It's not a left-right thing. It's a, "does it actually achieve it's intended goals" thing (The Wall: No. Dismantling pollution controls to "bring back jobs": No. etc. etc.).

Your victim mentality about how the media lies to you is utterly repulsive, especially since you literally haven't even been able to find one example of the media lying about something where Trump comes in and then "tells it how it 'really' is". He's the spin doctor here, and not even a very good one, so you really have no excuse for being taken in so easily.

How you actually have convinced yourself that Trump is a champion of "Truth" is beyond me. I understand that you are a "fan" of his, but you still have failed to provide even a single example of where the "left-wing" media intentionally made shit up, lied, screwed up statistics, etc. I'm sure it happens, mostly out of laziness, though compared to the degree that stations like FOX willfully engage in this behavior, they are beacons of journalistic integrity.

However, when the one finger points out, you look at where the other 4 are pointing. Back at Trump and his cronies, who are on a daily fucking basis making shit up, lying about the most unnecessary things, and generally working to undermine themselves, their credibility, and dig themselves into such a hole that even if they do eventually come up with a shred of actually effective policy-making, it still will be interpreted as too little too late. And, unlike you and your ilk, apparently, I can easily provide you mountains of examples of this that are backed up by indisputable facts.

To reiterate, Trump's idea of accurate reporting is one that "praises him" (in Sean Spicer's words). He shows no interest in promoting "the truth" beyond that. President Manchild is annoyed that reality doesn't actually match his self-aggrandizing worldview, and is clearly incapable of dealing with the nuances and stress of foreign and national affairs. Someone should call Ivanka and tell her that it's time to put the senile old man into a home already. A warm place (Florida, maybe?) with a nice golfcourse. The best. He'll be winning bigly -- 24 strokes under par. He can just play golf all day, watch fox news, and rant about how "yuge" he is to all him sycophants. It'll be great. The best. And from what all the "fake" media stations report (and, you know, his aides, as well a series of social media posts and interviews with the professional golfers who joined him), it's not that different from how he spends his weekends right now as president, so it shouldn't be a very difficult transition for him.