Chasing vs. Persistence

[Estate]

Hey guys,
A question on a topic I've never really got "right" up to now. Chasing vs. Persistence (I know there's an article on it).

My younger self would obviously do what any guys did and chased a girl I liked to my detriment.
Nowadays if a girl is just not investing enough I'll chalk it up as a waste of time on focus on other girls.

But I figure there's some middle ground I'm probably passing up some oppertunities on.
e.g. The girl is showing *some* interest but also playing a bit hard to get. If I persued more in these instances, maybe I'd get somewhere, instead of just writing them off without any peristence.

Of course... pushing it, just makes me feel like I'm chasing, therefore it will only push her away... so catch22 in my mind.

I'll go off a recent example here:
- Met a girl at a concert, chat, drinks, makeout, etc, etc, etc... good night
- Some texting back and forward, she's pretty flirty and complimenting me but isnt overly talkative by text... that's cool with me, I just want to go for the meetup.
- The kicker is we met out with our respective groups of friends. She seems to be pushing for us all getting together again and meeting that way. I want to set up a date which she hasn't been overly-commital too.

So when we do speak, she sounds into it. But I need to initiate which I don't like to over-do.

When we met she "tested" me a little, at one point even said something like "Wow, you're passing all my tests..." so it's one of those situations where I feel she's playing a little hard to get... if I persist, there might be SOME payoff, but if I chase, I'm failing her "test".

On the other hand, maybe I'm better off doing as I usually do and writing her off and focusing on other girls as she's not being receptive enough.

What do you guys think of these situations? Persist (and how to avoid chasing?) Or write it off?

 

[Franco]

Estate,

What do you guys think of these situations? Persist (and how to avoid chasing?) Or write it off?

I've answered a few of these types of questions on the board before, and I still believe I have a rather good rule of thumb for what will help you determine if you are chasing or persisting (the former being bad, the latter usually being good).

Generally, anything done over the phone beyond getting the girl out to see you is probably chasing. If you've clearly stated that you want to see her in a one-on-one type of setting (which she could easily categorize in her mind as a "date") and she dodges you after at least two attempts to do this (I give a second chance if the girl couldn't see me the first time), then I generally consider anything past that to be chasing. Why? Because at that point, it's pretty obvious to her that you want to see her in a romantic settings and that you've made a casual (but conscious) effort to do so. At that point, anything you do to push for the date lets her know that you see her as rather high value because, if you didn't, you would simply stop wasting your time and set up dates with the other ten girls that you've been texting.

With this in mind, however, generally anything done in PERSON to move the interaction forward without her physically walking away from you can be seen as persisting. If a girl is on the rocks about you and isn't sure if she should comply with your requests, then I consider it persistence to do what you can to get her to invest in you. As long as she doesn't try to walk away from you on her own accord, then she may just be waiting to see if you'll persist harder to get her.

So while you're in person, you are generally in a better position to get what you want from a girl if she's still standing (or sitting) next to you. However, over the phone, it's difficult to keep asking a girl to go out with you without making it look like you're chasing, so it's almost always best to make a hard limit on how many chances you'll give her to see you (and barring exceptionally odd situations, I usually give a girl two chances). From there, if she realized she overstepped her boundaries with you because you're a high value man that has other options, she'll make an effort to contact you again and possibly try to set something up then and there (and suddenly she's chasing you just by doing nothing to continue pursuing her).

For your current situation, it sounds like your mistake might have been agreeing to see the girl with your group of friends. It's not necessarily the end of the world, but it gives her more time to slot you as a potential friend/boyfriend rather than a lover (unless of course you manage to bed her that night after the group gathering is over). Anyway, I would probably just try to arrange a 1-on-1 date again and if she avoids it, just kinda drop contact with her until she contacts you with the intention of getting together for a date.

- Franco

 

[Estate]

Cheers Franco,
Those rules sound pretty solid.

I get a lot of "so what ever happened with that girl" later on from guy friends if they saw me meet a girl while with them. If I tell them I wrote her off they usually have a puzzled look on their face that I'm not chasing it down like a lion. I've been second guessing it lately, like is it work pushing it further if I don't get her out right away yet she's still acting "warm".

I was pretty much going with the rule of ... If I ask her out, she can accept or I move on.

The dynamic with the particular girl was not that I met up with her in a group setting.
I meant I first met her at a bar. I was with friends and so was she.
So when setting up meeting again, she seemed enthusiastic but was pushing for our groups of friends to meet up on a night out again, and that's not what I was going for.

This was pretty normal going in college for me. If you just met a girl, it was a bit weird to ask for a "date", you'd generally just keep casually texting and arrange for your groups to merge later in the nights on nights out (we didn't do the house party thing, people went to clubs since drinking age was 18.)
I've sort of left that behind though, it's too ambiguous and despite the supposedly casual nature of it, just leads to so many texts and planning and the dealing with group dynamics, I don't feel it's what I want to spend my time doing.