Chemistry/Romantic Connection - What's your process for creating it?

[aliparpar]

Hey guys,

Lately, I've been struggling to pull first-date lays and getting the same exact message from 2-3 separate dates consecutively.

This is the exact kind of message I've got from the past 3 dates so there is a pattern/behaviour I need to focus on.

Heya, I’m really sorry but I’m not sure about meeting up again. We had a really nice time together but I’m not sure there’s a romantic connection. You’re so lovely and so kind so it feels like it would be really disingenuous not to be clear.

So good news is that I'm not getting friendzoned. Since I try to focus on lover value and show sexual interest. But, girls also can't fit me in any other box so they send me the above message after the dates.

This is an area I'm reaching a plateau and need to work on. I was wondering what you suggest I should do? Are there any resources you can point me to and mark where I'm going wrong? Can you share your experience of similar responses and how you overcame them?

From my own field reports the main 4 things I can think of:
1. Cannot get past incidental touch - Need to be much much bolder with my touch.
2. There is just no sexual chemistry - I'm going for the wrong girls. Though, I can deep dive and build up repartee/rapport.
3. I need to lose some weight and build some muscle. Then review my wardrobe (I wear mostly fitting dress shirt + jeans and smart shoes on dates).
4. My attainability is too high.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@aliparpar dude! Points 2 and 3 are non existent. If you've met them and they agree to go out with you they can't all be the wrong girls. Although losing body fat and gaining muscle is a good thing again if they agree to go out with you this isn't a sticking point you were attractive enough to say yes to so unless you're only getting dates through online dating these aren't big issues.

Your attainability could be to high and not getting past incidental touch could be a huge issue, it could be nothing. There's a no touch pick up that can be done so it's clearly not a necessary thing dude but touching shows confidence, sexual intent, can cause arousal And it gets compliance because they accept it and if they touch back it's mutual.

My first thought is the message you're getting although it sucks it's not a rejection, it's an objection. They're unsure, this is where you can actually push through and show your intent. I'd recommend reading handling objections dude.

Secondly although you're confident with your deep dive it's coming across to nice guy which is why they think you're lovely. This means you're not sexy enough and possibly to much boyfriend potential is being displayed. I don't know what you're talking about with them but if you show to many boyfriend traits it can kill the attraction if they thought you were a lover. I'd look at working on your eye contact an being sexual with it. Look at your body language and think about your tone of voice. This would change your presentation that could be costing you.

The above point ties loosely with attainability, to boyfriend like and you're not a challenge. Again this could be down to your deep diving, if you're too platonic with it you're not making it count. If you don't lead to fun flirty conversation you will seem unsexual and a nice guy who cares about their job. Sex talk could be a game changer, cocky funny would definitely help and I notice ya from the UK dude so self depreciation humour can work well but not in an entertainer way.

Start inspecting jewellery or something to get past incidental touch. I have a few more thoughts but I think these are the key points dude

 

[aliparpar]

Mate thank you! These are really good suggestions!

Dates were from online so perhaps point 3 can be worked on. I have been working with a PT for point 3 and it's something I'm hoping to keep doing long term - not just for girls.

My first thought is the message you're getting although it sucks it's not a rejection, it's an objection. They're unsure, this is where you can actually push through and show your intent. I'd recommend reading handling objections dude.

Wow - never looked at it this way. I'll treat it as an objection with a few girls if I kept getting the same message to see what happens. I'll report here.

Start inspecting jewellery or something to get past incidental touch. I have a few more thoughts but I think these are the key points dude

Great idea there. I haven't been utilising this technique much - I'll give it a try on the next date. I think also I can be bolder by sitting next to them or asking to sit next to me after 10-20mins inside the convo? I've tried asking the girl to come over sitting next to me to show her some photos on my IG before and it helped me add on to my touch - leading to a successful pull on a first date and a cute FWB in the past.

The above point ties loosely with attainability, to boyfriend like and you're not a challenge. Again this could be down to your deep diving

I'm thinking about our deep dives now. We talked about her dreams, past failed dates and why she rejected them + her relationship desires. Normally I try to bring up the sex talk using a chainer topic such as relationships. It's an easy transition from there to how she thinks about intimacy and sex in relationships which then then gives me an opportunity to colourfully and passionately talk about intimacy - portraying myself as a lover.

Now something you pinpointed - I may have been overdoing the relationship talk and portraying myself as boyfriend - talking about what we both love to have in relationships etc. And, probably some platonic deep dives - talking about careers, etc.

Body language, eye contact and fun flirty conversations are definitely on this list. I'll have a look on the boards and blog to see if I can gather some action points to test on the next dates.

Thanks a lot mate - these gave me some things to work on

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@aliparpar dude! The inspecting jewellery can extend to tattoos or just about anything. As a typical night gamer I'd twirl girls to check out/ inspect their outfit. Broke the touch barrier, got compliance, got her to follow my lead in one move... you can use this on dates. Meet them and hug them straight away, or ask for her hand for a hand clasp or something. Might be more difficult in the current situation. Feel free to give them a twirl and a genuine compliment, it's not needed and I'd go indirect commenting on their fashion sense more than them. This makes you stand out.

This is bolder and more sexual immediately.

Definitely be bolder sitting next to them, if you can lead them where you want to sit by taking her hand or putting your hand on the small of her back this again makes you a leader. This is sexy! Tell them we're sitting here/ there and feel free to tell them to move closer as soon as. A date can be 20 minutes long or less any way. If it's going well it's a simple compliance request. I can't hear you, come here/ closer... I've got this on my phone, then move closer or get her to move closer. You can do this straight away or a few minutes in.

Personally I don't like discussing relationships and feel you've overdone it framing yourself as a boyfriend. You can link most things back to sex with transitions. Music thats about it, TV shows, movies you don't have to rely on relationships.

There could be a bad anchor here as you're putting sex and relationships together this stops her feeling allowed to have sex with you. It's very platonic. Careers however can be great topics and you can ride her emotions about this if she's passionate but you need to find out why she is. This explores deeper emotions and then fractionation will have a bigger impact allowing you to go deeper.

Failed dates could be a bad topic if she puts negative emotions to you. You'd need to reframe this in your favour, this is good if she brings it up but not needed from you. If your date is going well you don't need to hear about her shit dates.

 

[aliparpar]

Haha I did try to twirl her, she didn't comply but also probably I hadn't built up enough compliance + didn't persist enough.

Awesome - So a few more pointers.

Sex Talk Transitions - Been overdoing the relationships topic (sex+relationships = boyfriend category). I'll have a look on the blog for transitions to sex talk from other topics. I think for now I won't do the relationship talk just so that I can get that variable out of the experiments.

Fractionation - interesting, I'll have a look into this too. I can use fractionation to go deeper once we're on a topic that's riding her emotions. This could then keep the deep dives more interesting, emotional and non-platonic.

Negative anchors are also something to keep in mind. I thought we're both having a laugh together which is making us connect but didn't realise the subtle anchoring happening. Plus not good to discuss and laugh at failed dates - unnecessary.

Cheers mate

 

[ulrich]

Answer me this:

How do you feel in terms of sexualizing the conversations? Are you using sexual humor?
Are you doing the sexy bedroom eyes?
Talking with a deeper voice?
How long did your dates last?
Why did they end?
Did you invite them at some point to do something more private? (even if they refused)


If you got them from online, chances are they are not very conservative so perhaps they were looking for a fling and you didn't seem like a viable option.
Maybe you did "well" but simnply didn't move forward enough.

 

[aliparpar]

Answer me this:

How do you feel in terms of sexualizing the conversations? Are you using sexual humor?
Are you doing the sexy bedroom eyes?
Talking with a deeper voice?
How long did your dates last?
Why did they end?
Did you invite them at some point to do something more private? (even if they refused)


If you got them from online, chances are they are not very conservative so perhaps they were looking for a fling and you didn't seem like a viable option.
Maybe you did "well" but simply didn't move forward enough.

Dates normally last 2-3 hours and I always do go for an invite somewhere private at the end. Often it's evident I haven't sexualised enough as all 3 declined the invites - although one was clearly in for some fun - I persisted 3-5 times but couldn't budge her - could persist more.

The answer to your first three questions - there is room for improvement since I don't recall doing sexy eyes/voice in 2/3 dates. In one I did kiss the girl and she did invite me to 'netflix & chill' another night. I just saw her text too late - she went to sleep. Prior to the second date, she was asking about my logistics. I took a hint and tried setting up an easy date but she declined and wanted to go on a normal date then go home together. But after second date, she did a switcheroo and decided she doesn't want to go home with me after I tried to pull.

It was so FRUSTRATING as I thought we're in it together that night.

I think my search for the issue brought up this article:

What to Do When a Girl Won't Go Home with You

A reader named Konstantin writes in: “Hi Chase and the team! I have read most of your articles, and especially those on moving fast and inviting her home. I have a question: it happened to me quite a few times now that I invite a girl home with me, and she gets ever so close to coming, but...

www.girlschase.com

When a girl won’t go home with you, who previously was going home with you, it’s almost ALWAYS because the emotional bubble has “popped.” She was ready... she was willing... but then you brought her into a situation that spelled the demise of that mood she was in with you, and then she fell back on her logical criteria and you had a weakness someone that ruled you out as a short-term mate. “Actually, I don’t want to do this,” she said to herself.

In the second date, I messed up - I got to date 30 mins late and took her to ranger's golf (bad idea), our booking ran out too fast and just was a bad date logistically due to lots of wildcards - i.e broken train, traffic, she not liking golf etc. She clearly didn't enjoy it and crossed me off probably then.

With all 3 girls, I did sexualise the conversation/used sexual humor but maybe not the right way? Can definitely think about how I can integrate more of these.

In one date, the girl ended it (she was conservative - had very closed-off body language - crossed off arms most of the date) and the other two I ended - after the failed invitations - so chatted a bit after then said let's go and parted ways after some walking - with one ended in kissing goodbyes and the other two in hugs.

However, final outcome - all 3 girls sent me a text similar to the one above in my first post in this thread.

 

[ulrich]

@aliparpar, good!!
With those questions I thought I would find a gap in your process but it seems that you are very aware of what you're doing and what you need to do next.
Keep the good atittude and stay on track. You will get there soon!!

The only advice I can give you now is that whenever you feel that a date stalls and stops moving forward, immediately try to lead to the next small step (touch, kiss, invite, etc...).
You will be surprised what you can get if you just ask for it.

Also, you said you're overweight. Isit a big deal?

 

[aliparpar]

@uriel Thanks mate - really appreciate the support and for asking me good questions to figure things out.

I have to touch girls more on dates and set sexual frames was the conclusion I had.

I had a chat with a non-GC coach, he gave me an interesting insight:

It's about the frames you set. You normally operate on a default master frame. However, in different contexts you operate on a contextual frame. For instance, when you're on a date, when you are with your parents, whilst at work in a meeting, etc.

The problem is, in your dating contextual frame, you're setting a friendly frame than lover/sexual frame with your behaviour. When the girl is looking for fun/lover, you don't fit in her box so you get that response. It's how you present yourself via your dating contextual frame.

And I think it comes down to lacking vulnerability and outcome independence. Just go for the touch/move etc and see what happens. If she likes it to the next step, if she doesn't - take a step back.

The person with the stronger frame controls the interaction and influences the other person. When your sexual frame is not strong enough, her frame of you being a nice/loving/kind friendly guy wins and leads to you not getting what you want.

Really good resources here on GC on frame control. I think that's the stuff I need to focus on.

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I am overweight yes - about 10Kg so have hired a PT to help me lose some weight and signed up for the gym. I'll try to drop the 10kg in the next 3 months.