Clashing with Authority

[Thinkingenigma]

I've been meaning to write this post for a while, but recent events have brought this to the forefront of my mind, so here it goes.

Ever since I found GirlsChase, I've been putting the stuff on the site into practice, and I've grown from being a shy insecure nerd into being a confident, charismatic socialite on campus. Most of the time, things have gone pretty well, but I keep running into a consistent problem. Because I am very direct and assertive, I keep getting into trouble with different authorities. This is exacerbated by the fact that I go to a conservative Christian school, but I am not interested in maintaining any sort of sexual "purity". These incidents have ranged from little things like being challenged by those of slightly higher social standing (which I can usually handle pretty well), to nearly being kicked out of school on two separate occasions. Once for an opinion that I expressed online in a way that was very easily misconstrued, and once for getting slightly intimate with a girl (nothing actually happened, but she felt really bad about her desires and told her RA, who then informed the school about what happened). Most recently, I've gotten into trouble with the school's Judo instructor. Atm, I'm not sure if there was anything that I did in club that prompted this, although I don't think so (I'm going to have a conversation with him about this on Monday). Anyways, he had a conversation with someone from the administration and one of the things that he has requested is that I stop rolling with the girls in the Judo club. While I'm happy to oblige because he is my instructor, I can't shake the feeling that this is because I am seen as a predator, and not in a good way. I don't try to trick girls into liking me or doing things with me. In fact, I always go out of my way to get enthusiastic consent, so for people to have this assumption of me is quite frustrating. This is really bothering me, and I'm trying to figure out (1) why I keep having clashes with different authorities, and (2) what I can do to keep from having this image as a predator in the future. I might add that it's not the girls who I'm interested in who see me this way, but rather it's the onlookers who have that opinion. If it were a normal person, I'd just shrug it off as his opinions, but the fact that these people wield power over me and my future that worries me.

Does anyone else have problems like this? How have you managed situations such as these in the past?

 

[Good Vibes]

Authority is a bitch for Casanovas. What you must do is get the girl away from that enviroment on a date and then you're on mutual ground. Authority people will always protect what they perceive as the vulnerable and will over look the specifics of the situation to at least look like they're doing something about it and to stroke their egos of course. That's why on the street or in night clubs are better. It can be done but it may take longer to progress with her.

 

[Thinkingenigma]

Authority is a bitch for Casanovas. What you must do is get the girl away from that enviroment on a date and then you're on mutual ground. That's why on the street or in night clubs are better. It can be done but it may take longer to progress with her.

Easier said than done. Nightlife here is practically non-existent and you don't go walking around downtown unless you have a death-wish. Until I graduate and move to a different city, I'm stuck with my options on campus, and the few girls that I meet while working or running errands.

 

[Lanoa]

If you differentiate from the general 'code' you will face opposition most of the time. They have rules and you are part of the campus, therefore they apply on you as everyone else and are enforced more easily as we are not talking about the general society, but a specific one.

Conform or bare the responsibility for straying away, not much to do or say about it.

Finding a way to live within the place while keeping your own congruence of personality and balance it with requests from authority that differ is a hard task, but only you know yourself and the details, so only you can do something about it and choose the way to go. You are where you are right now and you are staying there for the time being. This is not a situation of equality where you are dealing with a person on the same level. You create a war, you deal with war and most of the time, it is pointless. You ask what makes you look like a predator and why you clash with authorities: You are on a conservative Christian school and you are not interested in maintaining sexual purity and you are working on picking up girls, you go against the rules and opinions of the school. I do not think you need more to understand the answer to those questions. Respect your opinions, respect theirs too and be prepared to be responsible for the results if you go against what they do not see as suitable. Presenting your true self under different conditions and in various environments is an art. You do not have to become 'less you' to exist contently there, but you sure have to balance few things and probably tone it down in some aspects of what you do not to be seen like dangerous.

I would look again at your present possibilities and really try to look elsewhere for girls or, of course, you can risk the trouble. You gotta work with what you have.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Thinkingenigma,

Be well aware of you feeling threatened, and why. It's because others feel threatened as well. Don't take all those things as threats, but be aware enough to know where it is going, so you tackle the root.

Onlookers will have problems anyway. If you in a conservative environment, keep it low profile. Learn the niceness of subtle game. You don't always have to show your golden power. Take a step back. Don't use fishing rod in a desert.

Overall, Become "lesser" in their eyes but you work yourself to be well verse. Others have the ego boost, the reactions, but you the one rocking the girl in the sack.

Zac

 

[Thinkingenigma]

Thinkingenigma,

Be well aware of you feeling threatened, and why. It's because others feel threatened as well. Don't take all those things as threats, but be aware enough to know where it is going, so you tackle the root.

Onlookers will have problems anyway. If you in a conservative environment, keep it low profile. Learn the niceness of subtle game. You don't always have to show your golden power. Take a step back. Don't use fishing rod in a desert.

Overall, Become "lesser" in their eyes but you work yourself to be well verse. Others have the ego boost, the reactions, but you the one rocking the girl in the sack.

Zac

Zach, I think I see what you're saying, but do you think that you could expand on that? Maybe give an example of what you are talking about?

 

[Estate]

I read similar things a lot of PUA forums.
It's an aspect I don't terribly like. Guys take on a new persona when thy gain a little success and see themselves as above most. They make themselves very obvious and don't respect social rules, authority or those who are above them in a social hierarchy.
I just don't like it.

The thing with the Judo instructor. I mean, this doesn't just happen. You must be interacting with people in class in a very "obvious" manner. I mean, how are you acting in the class? Are you acting loud or dominating things? Are you flirting with girls when a class is on?
I don't get it really.
I mean, in a social hierarchy, the instructor is at the "top". It doesn't matter how much game you have. He is the leader of his environment and sets the tone, the pace, the agenda, etc...
I don't think having game is an excuse to challenge that... you shouldn't be challenging his authority in HIS class... if you want that authority then become the leader of your own social hierarchy, but imposing yourself on someone elses hierarchy will not end well.

If you ARE seeing girls from this class... why does he even know? Why is it such a big deal? And such a story? I would think anything happening would be between you and the girls and not in any way directly impacting on class in his environment.

Same goes for the girl who reported you. Girls don't just report this stuff for now reason... what happened? Did you make her uncomfortable in some way?

I think there's more to this story than told. But I have to re-iterate, this is a side of game I don't like so much. Guys begin to believe they are above some social norms, rules and hierarchies and I don't think it's a good thing.
It's like a mutiny, challenging the leader from within. It's not the path of least effort... but becoming the leader and THEN setting your own rules, goes a lot better IMO.

 

[Thinkingenigma]

The thing with the Judo instructor. I mean, this doesn't just happen. You must be interacting with people in class in a very "obvious" manner. I mean, how are you acting in the class? Are you acting loud or dominating things? Are you flirting with girls when a class is on?
I don't get it really.
I mean, in a social hierarchy, the instructor is at the "top". It doesn't matter how much game you have. He is the leader of his environment and sets the tone, the pace, the agenda, etc...
I don't think having game is an excuse to challenge that... you shouldn't be challenging his authority in HIS class... if you want that authority then become the leader of your own social hierarchy, but imposing yourself on someone elses hierarchy will not end well.

If you ARE seeing girls from this class... why does he even know? Why is it such a big deal? And such a story? I would think anything happening would be between you and the girls and not in any way directly impacting on class in his environment.

With the Judo instructor, I don't think it has anything to do with stuff in class. In fact, he said in his message that I was a great judoka, and made it clear that the problem here isn't a problem between him and I. I don't really flirt in class or and I greatly respect my instructor's authority, so I believe that it has more to do with stuff he's heard from outside of class. Christians may focus a lot on certain sins, but one that is almost never addressed is gossip. People talk, and they make it their business to talk behind the backs of other people, which is where I tend to get in trouble. I think this is what is happening here. I believe it's something along the lines of how people decide that gay people shouldn't be allowed to be in contact with children because they assume that gay people are pedophiles. It's a totally false assumption, but it doesn't prevent them from getting that stigma. In my case, I think that my instructor, having heard through the grapevine that I've been physical with girls, and realizing that I'm not trying to hold myself to a religious standard of "purity", he's assumed that I will take advantage of the opportunity to roll with the girls in the class by trying to cop a feel or something like that. From that perspective, he's totally right to make that request. However, I think that this is a case of miscommunication, and that he has the wrong impression of me.

Same goes for the girl who reported you. Girls don't just report this stuff for now reason... what happened? Did you make her uncomfortable in some way?

As for the other girl, she didn't report me. She was talking to her RA who is a friend of hers. The RA reported both of us. She felt bad because she was having cognitive dissonance over what had happened. At the time, I was the one having to keep things from going too far, specifically because I knew she wasn't thinking about things. At that moment she was pushing to go farther, not me. Afterwards, she started regretting it while doing her devotional, and called me to try and make herself feel better. I tried to help her see that she didn't do anything wrong, and that she shouldn't worry about it. After all, we didn't even kiss. It was just some touching and heavy petting. Clearly, that didn't do the trick, so she called her friend,forgetting that she was an RA here. The RA made me out to be a bad guy, but it was all cleared up when Res life talked to both myself and the girl.

I read similar things a lot of PUA forums.
It's an aspect I don't terribly like. Guys take on a new persona when thy gain a little success and see themselves as above most. They make themselves very obvious and don't respect social rules, authority or those who are above them in a social hierarchy.
I just don't like it.

I think there's more to this story than told. But I have to re-iterate, this is a side of game I don't like so much. Guys begin to believe they are above some social norms, rules and hierarchies and I don't think it's a good thing.
It's like a mutiny, challenging the leader from within. It's not the path of least effort... but becoming the leader and THEN setting your own rules, goes a lot better IMO.

I almost never directly challenge people (unless it's a constructive challenge), whether or not they are in authority. I just don't see the need to do so. I do speak my mind, but I always attempt to do so in a diplomatic fashion. I've done sales for the last several years, so I usually don't have a problem doing this. If I have an interpersonal problem with someone and I know about it, I like to address it immediately, and the issue is almost always resolved satisfactorily for everyone by the end of the conversation. The problem arises when people decide to complain to people above me without attempting to address the issue with me first. I try not to make waves with those who are above me, and so I generally have good relationships with my professors and employers. It's only when someone comes to them about a complaint that they haven't addressed with me that I get in trouble. It's what happened with the RA, it's what happened with the person who contacted administration about something I said on social media, and it's what I think is happening with my Judo instructor.

As I think about things a bit more, I think I'm beginning to see it a bit differently. Essentially my question is more of a preventative question. How do I make it clear to people that if they have a problem with me, that they should bring it up with me before they go ahead and complain to a higher authority?

 

[Estate]

As I think about things a bit more, I think I'm beginning to see it a bit differently. Essentially my question is more of a preventative question. How do I make it clear to people that if they have a problem with me, that they should bring it up with me before they go ahead and complain to a higher authority?

I think the jist of my post was... why does meeting girls cause you to draw so much attention to yourself?
Instead of having to deal with authority, isn't it more logical to just not draw them on yourself?

I'm Christian, and I get it... but maybe the environment you're in is way more extreme than I have ever encountered but I just don't get something here...
I'm assuming this is a co-ed school... surely guys and girls meet? It can't be the case that a co-ed college actively looks down on or prevents any sort of relationships between students? Or am I way off?
So my question is... why is it that they notice you? Or your actions?

I feel like that is a more important thing to address than figuring out how to deal with these people AFTER you have come to their attention.

If I am meeting or seeing girls, it's almost always between us. In any environment, people around us, bar tenders, bouncers, people on the street, the guy pouring coffee behind the counter... they are not involved and don't need to be. Unless something I am doing is over the top and making me stand out in a negative way, like they notice I am making people uncomfortable around them or I am acting inappropriately.

 

[Thinkingenigma]

As I think about things a bit more, I think I'm beginning to see it a bit differently. Essentially my question is more of a preventative question. How do I make it clear to people that if they have a problem with me, that they should bring it up with me before they go ahead and complain to a higher authority?

I think the jist of my post was... why does meeting girls cause you to draw so much attention to yourself?
Instead of having to deal with authority, isn't it more logical to just not draw them on yourself?

I'm Christian, and I get it... but maybe the environment you're in is way more extreme than I have ever encountered but I just don't get something here...
I'm assuming this is a co-ed school... surely guys and girls meet? It can't be the case that a co-ed college actively looks down on or prevents any sort of relationships between students? Or am I way off?
So my question is... why is it that they notice you? Or your actions?

I feel like that is a more important thing to address than figuring out how to deal with these people AFTER you have come to their attention.

If I am meeting or seeing girls, it's almost always between us. In any environment, people around us, bar tenders, bouncers, people on the street, the guy pouring coffee behind the counter... they are not involved and don't need to be. Unless something I am doing is over the top and making me stand out in a negative way, like they notice I am making people uncomfortable around them or I am acting inappropriately.

I agree. Like I said, I would much rather take preventative measures than have to deal with these problems once they flame out of control.

As I said before, I go to a very conservative Christian school. There's this idea among many of the guys here that they need to "protect their sisters in Christ" which I get. I myself have a protective instinct that goes beyond that of most people (probably because of my time in Judo). However, to many of the guys, even though they would consider me a friend, I am still an "other" due to my lack of faith and shared values. I believe that this makes them feel obliged to protect their female friends from my "corrupting influence" (and yes, I've had that said to me before). People are all up everyone's business, and it drives me nuts. I'm not a bad guy simply because I don't share their faith and I happen to like girls.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Thinkingenigma,

Withdraw yourself from socialite status. It's a wrong environment to be leader to begim with. Like asking a guy who has sex a lot to become a priest. Can't happened

Make yourself the guy who's quiet but firm. Be reserved.

Dont pursue women directly. Like walking with a women when others are around. Dont laugh with them so much, just do anything but roughly gauge it by half. Do things effectively. Example, If she flirts openly, smile. Then off you go.

Gradual small steps

Day 1 - talk
Day 2 - flirt
Day 3 - talk
Day 4 - number

Get what i mean, Never do it in continuous days.

Don't talk about girls with anyone or mention them. If u bored, write us something here. Read a book, read old Chase articles. take notes

Keep it at neutral with those not likeable. If u see them, acknowledge the sucky feeling, look back to the middle.

Dont be enthusiastic. Be reserved, yet inviting.

Yours is more of office game and classmates game.

Dont sleep withba girl unless you sure she's nt religious.

Throw back their accusations and ask where they from. Doesn't matter what the answer is right, tell them it's stupid. Make it hostile and short in the argument. Then leave. If Morals are thrown, ask them what they doing is right now is right, and fuck their beliefs there.

Then build them back up.

Zac

 

[Ross]

I've been meaning to write this post for a while, but recent events have brought this to the forefront of my mind, so here it goes.

Ever since I found GirlsChase, I've been putting the stuff on the site into practice, and I've grown from being a shy insecure nerd into being a confident, charismatic socialite on campus. Most of the time, things have gone pretty well, but I keep running into a consistent problem. Because I am very direct and assertive, I keep getting into trouble with different authorities. This is exacerbated by the fact that I go to a conservative Christian school, but I am not interested in maintaining any sort of sexual "purity". These incidents have ranged from little things like being challenged by those of slightly higher social standing (which I can usually handle pretty well), to nearly being kicked out of school on two separate occasions. Once for an opinion that I expressed online in a way that was very easily misconstrued, and once for getting slightly intimate with a girl (nothing actually happened, but she felt really bad about her desires and told her RA, who then informed the school about what happened). Most recently, I've gotten into trouble with the school's Judo instructor. Atm, I'm not sure if there was anything that I did in club that prompted this, although I don't think so (I'm going to have a conversation with him about this on Monday). Anyways, he had a conversation with someone from the administration and one of the things that he has requested is that I stop rolling with the girls in the Judo club. While I'm happy to oblige because he is my instructor, I can't shake the feeling that this is because I am seen as a predator, and not in a good way. I don't try to trick girls into liking me or doing things with me. In fact, I always go out of my way to get enthusiastic consent, so for people to have this assumption of me is quite frustrating. This is really bothering me, and I'm trying to figure out (1) why I keep having clashes with different authorities, and (2) what I can do to keep from having this image as a predator in the future. I might add that it's not the girls who I'm interested in who see me this way, but rather it's the onlookers who have that opinion. If it were a normal person, I'd just shrug it off as his opinions, but the fact that these people wield power over me and my future that worries me.

Does anyone else have problems like this? How have you managed situations such as these in the past?

As difficult as it may be, it seems your problem here is fitting in with the norm. It is something that happens whenever you approach and environment. Sometimes you're going to have to act like someone that you don't identify as yourself. For example:

- If you are amongst a bunch of urban workers who frequently get into trouble with the law, you aren't going to show off how much money you have. In order to survive, you are going to relate to those urban workers and agree that the police are evil and agree that the government should give you more money. If you fail to do this, you will be excommunicated by that society of people.

In this environment that you are in, people are hardcore conservative. You're going to have to agree with their views, rather than change them. It's you versus people who clearly have more power than you. You don't need to change your approach to women, as it sounds like you have that down fine. Rather, I would get to know the people in power, gain their respect by agreeing with their views and following their standards, and then they will give you the benefit of the doubt.

This means becoming friends with the RAs. This means being a charismatic, nice boy to your teachers. Go to church, meet a bunch of people who teach and the higher ups. Find the people in charge of who gets kicked out of the school, and be the nice, charismatic boy who would never harm a fly. They will give you the benefit of the doubt towards these people. They will protect you. Do not change your views, but instead project the vibes that allow yourself to form strong bonds with the higher-ups.

 

[Estate]

+1 on the last two posts.

I think they said it better than I was able to.
You need to adapt to the environment you are in and not try to make the environment adapt to you.

That's why I said I hate this side of PUA. Guys often just have their own perception of the world and have a slightly negative outlook at anyone who doesn't "get it".
The reason I took to this site is it not just focuses on getting girls but on social interaction of all kinds and general social savviness (if that's a word, lol.).

Think of Chase's path of least resistance... is drawing authority on you really the easiest way? You can become a generally more attractive guy by fitting into your environment, but not in an overly hardcore religious way if that's not your thing, but by just being everyone "go to guy". Be social, friendly, out-going in general and people will be drawn to you without a lot of effort.

I think the environment you are in is more extreme than what I was exposed to when I was younger but I still have to wonder... it's a co-ed campus. Guys and girls are still going to meet and get together. It can't be that unusual, so for something to be peaking peoples interests it seems like you might be standing out for some other reasons of going like going against the grain of their social system too much.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Estate and Ross mention about your environment being too extreme. I put the "Fuck their beliefs" part on your territory. I cannot say it from here, but do keep your cool, and we hope you get the best advice from us.

But then again, you tell that you are enthusiastic. I realize something. When you too "into" something, you can sometimes be viewed too powered over people. Tone down your enthusiastic nature bit.

otherwise, can you change school?

Zac

 

[Thinkingenigma]

Estate and Ross mention about your environment being too extreme. I put the "Fuck their beliefs" part on your territory. I cannot say it from here, but do keep your cool, and we hope you get the best advice from us.

But then again, you tell that you are enthusiastic. I realize something. When you too "into" something, you can sometimes be viewed too powered over people. Tone down your enthusiastic nature bit.

otherwise, can you change school?

Zac

Thanks guys. I really do tend to get the best advice from here. As I tried to post last night (apparently the message got lost in the interwebs), I try not to be abrasive when dealing with conflict. I find that an assertive, even-handed approach is the best way to resolve conflicts in a way that is mutually agreeable to both of us. Estate is absolutely correct when he says that it's very common to develop a myopic view of people when trying to develop this part of yourself. I have tried to stay away from that, but we all have blind spots, and this may be one of mine. I chose this site for nearly the same reasons he did; because it focuses on being a well-rounded, sociable person, and not just on picking up girls. I've been in sales for the better part of the last two years, so I'm used to being diplomatic. My problem has always been that I accidentally overlook small things that end up getting me into big trouble later down the line. Whether it be forgetting to flip a certain switch to make sure I was getting audio from an interview (in that case, I had to redo the interview for class), to forgetting to check myself for food bits after lunch before going and talking to a girl that I liked (she was a bit of a neat freak, so you know where that went), to not proof-reading my posts on Facebook to make sure they couldn't be misinterpreted (I learned my lesson there), I tend to not make large mistakes, but rather little ones with bigger consequences.

I think that trying to tone my enthusiasm down a bit might help me a lot, so I'm definitely planning to do that. In addition, while I already have great relationships with nearly all of my professors, I think I'm going to expand that to more of the administration. As for changing schools, it's still a possibility but even if I were able to, it would be an entire semester before I would be able to transfer, so I need to figure out how to keep my life as conflict free as possible in the meantime. Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[Chase]

Very well-balanced thread here fellas. Not much to add.

I will say that when you're young it's easy to want to "fight the system." What you've got to realize though is that that system is backed up by TONS of people, and you're not going to win fighting the system unless you pick the part of it you're going to fight, then organize, and get an equally large group of people backing your position. You can tear off a piece of it, and work on it over a long period of time, but it's going to take lots of time, lots of energy, and lots of PEOPLE to effect change. You won't do it on your own.

Imagine a guy who decides that he thinks he should be able to fly on airplanes without getting body-scanned. He knows he's not a terrorist, and doesn't see any reason for it. So he walks up to airport security, steps past the scanner, says, "Sorry, you're not scanning me," and tries to continue on, before getting tackled by a bunch of airport security guards. He struggles, yells out about how this is stupid and it's security theater and his rights are being violated, and then he gets thrown in jail. Maybe he tried to post a video of it on the Internet and start raising support to stop having people get body-scanned. But if he wants to effect real change, he's probably going to have to set years of his life aside to work on JUST getting scanners out of airports. And there's a good chance he doesn't succeed, or doesn't succeed until a replacement technology is available that was going to happen on its own anyway.

Like Estate mentions, the path of least resistance is usually just to go along with whatever the authorities in whatever part of the world you're in mandate. You don't fight for freedom of information in Saudi Arabia or Iran or China or North Korea unless you want to get exported or thrown in a gulag, because they have the force of the military behind it if you fight hard enough. That's just how it is. If you want to make that your cause and devote your life to it, that's one thing, but if you're just doing it on principle, be very careful you don't find yourself in a quixotic quest that's leading you nowhere fast and wasting the potential of your life.

To quote Sun Tzu:

If a battle cannot be won, do not fight it.

Sometimes you have to walk away from something that's mildly unfair but entrenched in how things are done in order to save your energies for more important things. It's usually better to be friendly with authority, obey the rules as much as possible, and go without a fight and pay whatever penalties when you disobey the rules. Only fight if it's VERY important, and if you think you can win, and you're willing to make this your personal cause that you will set aside other important things in your life to focus on just this for an indefinite amount of time. If you can't do that, don't get yourself entangled... you'll throw yourself away on it.

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

BUMP