- Joined
- Dec 6, 2012
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- 1,458
I bombed this one pretty hard. I'm writing this so I can assess exactly where I went wrong with the whole thing. Maybe being too bold too soon.
I know there are lots of mistakes and they built on top of each other. It seems I didn't set proper chase frames, portray myself as a sexual open man, and ultimately make her comfortable being around me. Then as the date was nearing a close I moved too fast before she was ready, and subsequently spilled the beans that I liked her and killed intrigue.
This probably has ended up in friend land; there could still be a chance, as she does want to see me again.
It is interesting to note that this started out quite well when I met the girl.
----
MEETING, TUESDAY 3/25
I was riding the train into work, incidentally with a lover who had spent the night. She got off at a stop halfway en route to go home, when this new girl got on at the same stop and took her place. She was wearing tight maroon jeans with tiny white polka dots, so I used that to open her about one minute after she sat down, preopening with a backhand tap on her forearm.
Me: "Hey, I noticed your jeans, and they're actually quite stylish. Where did you get them?"
She was happy to hear the compliment and a little taken aback, and after blushing told me they are from China. I detected an accent here, so I asked how long she's lived in the US for: a year and a half. I set this up so that I just HAD to guess where she's from, and told her it must be French Polynesia or Tanzania, or both. She didn't really understand the sarcasm at first until I explained it and actually knew she is Chinese. I then correctly guessed her home town, which isn't common, so she was impressed (I happen to be extremely good with geography). I had her guess where I'm from and I said French Polynesia and Tanzania, at once. She still didn't understand the humor. I called her gullible and made fun of her for that, and explained I've lived here for a few years.
We spent the rest of the train ride, about half an hour, deep diving extensively. I asked her about her travels in China and places she's been to and recommends visiting. I find out she actually has aspirations to visit Tanzania, which leads me to find out she is a climate change lawyer and really passionate about that. We talked about a lot of things - history, politics, growing up in different areas, traveling, staying busy, and exploring new countries and experiences.
About halfway into the train ride, at the high point in our conversation. I make my intentions very clear:
Me: Hey, listen, you're really fun and charming to talk to, and I actually said hi because I think you really have quite alluring features about you. Why don't we grab coffee sometime and get to know each other?
HER: Sure! That sounds good to me.
I then pulled out my phone, and she punched in her number. I saved her name and verified the spelling.
We continued the conversation for the next fifteen minutes and it felt the same. Lots of deep diving and I felt a great connection.
When the train arrives at the terminal, we both get lost in the crowd. I wait for her and find out she's going into the subway like me and also that she's going near the same station on the same train. When we pass the faregates I got lost in the crowd and she actually waited for ME!
In this train I joked about physics - because earlier she said she was really bad at that. Using a mix of sarcasm and self deprecation I had her laughing frequently from the moment we met. At some point in the subway she qualified herself as naughty and mean, and I said "it's good to be naughty sometimes." The atmosphere got a little tense and I switched subjects.
I tried to get her to set a date for coffee on the spot, but she declined. Repeatedly. That she is too busy. I just said I'd text her and we will figure it out, then we parted ways.
----
TEXTING EXCHANGE
3/24
Me 1224: PP - hey! Nice meeting a Nirvana and physics "enthusiast" on Metro North today
. Save my number....-Ozzo
HER 1757: Hah, saved.
3/28
Me 1251: Hi PP...I was reading a climate change article on the NYT today and thought of you. Thinking we should grab coffee soon, what do you think? How's your schedule looking?
HER 1509: Hah, that's a good connection in mind! Let's meet up at grand central today after work? what do u think?
Me 1547: What time were you thinking?
HER 1550: I am a bit flexible this afternoon. My boss left the office already.
Me 1558: How convenient I'm off around 6:30. There's a great coffee shop near GCT called ________. What do you think?
HER 1600: Ha, the name is funny. Ok. So meet u there at 7pm?
Me 1604: Sounds good. See you soon.
<Anti-flake>
Me 1830: I'm on my way. When you get there I'll meet you by the front door.
HER 1902: Which front door?
Uh oh, logistical screw up. I looked at my texts and realized I never sent at address, and she probably went to the train station when instead this place is ten blocks away. I called her up and told her that I screwed up, that I thought she would look up the address and so didn't text it to her. She apologized to me for not looking up the address herself as well, and said she didn't mind walking over and would make it there in ten minutes.
Texting continued:
Me 1907: I screwed up, should have sent you the address. ___ __ st between ___ and ___.
HER 1909: Well it is my fault. No worries. I like walking.
Me 1910: See you soon.
----
COFFEE DATE, FRIDAY 3/28
She showed up ten minutes later looking great, and she went for the handshake like in business. I didn't reciprocate, and instead touched her elbow and asked her what sorts of trouble she caused that day. She instead started talking about how nice a walk it was, and apologized again for being late and explained that she likes being on time. I told her no big deal, I messed up and I'm glad she made it.
I led her in to the store by the small of her back. When we got to the counter she joked that I should pay for her since she got lost and had to walk all this way. I gave her a puzzled look and she backed off instantly, and said instead that no, its okay, I'm just going to get it myself. I offered to pay at this time and she declined.
When we were waiting for my coffee to come, I continued to ask about her day and how it's been going. I mentioned that before she said she had a naughty side, and if she'd caused any trouble that day. She mentioned she's naughty in a mean way. But not in the way I would be thinking. I respond by telling her that I don't judge either way, that I am an open minded guy and appreciate honesty.
We moved to sit. I suggested we sit next to each other on the couch. She declined. I didn't persist too much, I said ok, and then sat on a single seater while she sat on another. I started talking and she can't hear me over the music. I then sat on the couch myself. The entirety of the time that she was talking to me, she was leaning into me. This never really changed, and she never crossed her arms either. Typically, her hands were reachable to mine.
We again spent a lot of time deep diving across a variety of topics, and it turns out she has traveled frequently on her own. She tells me her gut tells her that I am a bad man, and that I am also a nice guy. She tells me she is genuinely good, but also mean. We eventually agree that like attracts like and she feels we are on the same page, as independent and good, but with a darker inner side as well.
Some other topics:
- Family - an only child
- Work - how she was inspired.
- Where else she would live.
- What brought us to our respective places in life.
- She was very intrigued to hear more about me and asked all sorts of questions.
I made physical contact once again by examining her jewelry on her hand, and she didn't hold it in place, she pulled back instantly.
I ask what she is doing after this. Going home and sleeping, working in the AM. I tell her I'm probably going to chill and watch a movie.
I tried to pull her home, using the whole yes ladder: "are you having a good time?" (yes) "the night is too young to end, dont you think" (yes) "so why don't we let it continue" and she suggests going to watch a movie. But that will take long. She backs out when she realizes it will be 11 when she is done. I suggest we go to my apt and watch, and she also declines. She says she hasn't been to a theatre in the city, but then thinks about it and realizes it might be too late. I could definitely have taken her with me to a movie if I persisted once more.
Soon after I tell her I'm hungry. I get up to leave and we leave together. She asks if I am going to walk her to the train station; I say why don't we swing by a few blocks and check out this cool architecture.
----
WHERE THINGS WENT SHITTY, around 8:30:
I took her on route to show her some of the cool architecture in the area. On the way she tried to make me carry her bag from her. I joked that I'll carry it for her if she carries mine for me. When she felt how heavy it was she apologized and changed her attitude and said I hold the bag well. En route she called me a nice friend, but I didn't comment.
I paused to explain the buildings, a major landmark. She was most intrigued. And then I went for a kiss close.
I went for the kiss by attempting a manhandle. The moment felt right. She was talking about buildings and asking questions, there was no one around us, there felt like slight tension, and the night was definitely peaking. At this point she was also right next to me, and I wanted to use Chase's bold surprise kiss scenario.
Well, I went for it and she didn't accept. She backed off and then pretty much said "whoa, whoa,what are you doing? We are just friends and I don't really do the whole hookup thing." I went the blunt route and said "listen, it just felt right to do that, but there's something bigger I want to talk to you about. You mentioned the word "friends" on the walk here, and I wasn't sure what you meant by that. I like you, and I'm not looking for us to be just friends."
After everything happened my demeanor changed pretty dramatically. I knew I was fucked, and I got quieter and more serious. Her subsequent response was to point this out.
Some of the things that she said (and my replies in <>):
- I think you're just looking for fast sex or a hookup, and I'm not looking for that <who said anything about sex? Where is your mind right now? The only thing I said is that I don't want to be just friends>
- I like to be friends with guys, and it sounds like you're looking for a relationship <I never said anything about a relationship either! But I do think that you're cute, fun, and charming. I like to go with the flow>.
- You probably move fast with other girls but that's not going to work on me, because we just met <I smirked and replied "so you don't enjoy hanging out with me, then? And you're not having a nice time here?> and she replied that she is having a nice time and its fun.
- My gut feeling tells me that you have bad intentions, and that you're probably a playboy <I told her that I am in a period in my life where I don't really know what I want, and then asked about how long it has been since she has been in a relationship.> She replies it has been a year and a half. She asks the same of me and I admit to it being a little over half a year.
We spent about twenty minutes sitting down, where I basically explained to her very bluntly that I want to continue hanging out with her because I like her, and the reason I talked to her in the first place is because of her cute features. When I got to know her a bit more, I actually enjoyed the time we spent, and like that we get along well in our own way. She is fun and charming, and dorky. She agreed that she also enjoyed the time she spent with me.
As I was much quieter now, she kept apologizing and making sure that I am ok, that she didn't mean to hurt my feelings and. I told her no, you didn't hurt my feelings and I don't need her solace, but that I am just a little upset that I fucked up and I feel like this isn't going to work out anymore because I opened up.
She always made gestures to touch me, on my shoulder typically, but never actually did it. Sometimes this happened while laughing. I continued to Kino her lower back as I had before.
I walked her in the direction of the train, and I showed her and walked her through the very cool lobby of the building. At this point we were both being super awkward together. She kept asking if I'm ok, and I kept saying I'm fine. I kept bringing up not wanting just friends, and she kept saying she understood. She points out that it seems like I'm walking her to the station, and that's so nice. I challenge her: first, I ask if she wants me to leave and not walk with her. She says no. Then I tell her that my subway is also in this direction, and I'm walking her this way because I am enjoying the time that we are spending together. She agrees. We then exchange frames that we are both being super awkward.
At one point on the walk back she also said something very intriguing:
HER: When we met on the train and you asked for my number, I actually told my friends and bragged to them, that a guy asked for my number and he is actually pretty cute.
I am not sure if she was just trying to make me feel better.
At parting, I dropped her at the entry to the train. I suggested we hang out again. She promised she would. I told her we can figure it out later. I went for a cheek kiss, and she denied me. She said "lets just hug" and I said "No, I don't do the hugs thing." She then offered her hand for me to kiss, and I accepted and did that. As I walked passed her she held eye contact for three seconds and said goodbye.
----
All sorts of wrong here. However, I am thinking about it and something similar happened with an ex GF of mine who I dated for a year and a half - when I made bold moves on date 1, she rejected, but over time she slowly warmed up to it. So maybe she is slotting me into a boyfriend role? Or is it just friend land?
Thinking it might be best to let this cool off for a few weeks, then reach out again.
Either way, I really blew it hard last night. When I went home I felt miserable and went to bed immediately
I know there are lots of mistakes and they built on top of each other. It seems I didn't set proper chase frames, portray myself as a sexual open man, and ultimately make her comfortable being around me. Then as the date was nearing a close I moved too fast before she was ready, and subsequently spilled the beans that I liked her and killed intrigue.
This probably has ended up in friend land; there could still be a chance, as she does want to see me again.
It is interesting to note that this started out quite well when I met the girl.
----
MEETING, TUESDAY 3/25
I was riding the train into work, incidentally with a lover who had spent the night. She got off at a stop halfway en route to go home, when this new girl got on at the same stop and took her place. She was wearing tight maroon jeans with tiny white polka dots, so I used that to open her about one minute after she sat down, preopening with a backhand tap on her forearm.
Me: "Hey, I noticed your jeans, and they're actually quite stylish. Where did you get them?"
She was happy to hear the compliment and a little taken aback, and after blushing told me they are from China. I detected an accent here, so I asked how long she's lived in the US for: a year and a half. I set this up so that I just HAD to guess where she's from, and told her it must be French Polynesia or Tanzania, or both. She didn't really understand the sarcasm at first until I explained it and actually knew she is Chinese. I then correctly guessed her home town, which isn't common, so she was impressed (I happen to be extremely good with geography). I had her guess where I'm from and I said French Polynesia and Tanzania, at once. She still didn't understand the humor. I called her gullible and made fun of her for that, and explained I've lived here for a few years.
We spent the rest of the train ride, about half an hour, deep diving extensively. I asked her about her travels in China and places she's been to and recommends visiting. I find out she actually has aspirations to visit Tanzania, which leads me to find out she is a climate change lawyer and really passionate about that. We talked about a lot of things - history, politics, growing up in different areas, traveling, staying busy, and exploring new countries and experiences.
About halfway into the train ride, at the high point in our conversation. I make my intentions very clear:
Me: Hey, listen, you're really fun and charming to talk to, and I actually said hi because I think you really have quite alluring features about you. Why don't we grab coffee sometime and get to know each other?
HER: Sure! That sounds good to me.
I then pulled out my phone, and she punched in her number. I saved her name and verified the spelling.
We continued the conversation for the next fifteen minutes and it felt the same. Lots of deep diving and I felt a great connection.
When the train arrives at the terminal, we both get lost in the crowd. I wait for her and find out she's going into the subway like me and also that she's going near the same station on the same train. When we pass the faregates I got lost in the crowd and she actually waited for ME!
In this train I joked about physics - because earlier she said she was really bad at that. Using a mix of sarcasm and self deprecation I had her laughing frequently from the moment we met. At some point in the subway she qualified herself as naughty and mean, and I said "it's good to be naughty sometimes." The atmosphere got a little tense and I switched subjects.
I tried to get her to set a date for coffee on the spot, but she declined. Repeatedly. That she is too busy. I just said I'd text her and we will figure it out, then we parted ways.
----
TEXTING EXCHANGE
3/24
Me 1224: PP - hey! Nice meeting a Nirvana and physics "enthusiast" on Metro North today
. Save my number....-OzzoHER 1757: Hah, saved.
3/28
Me 1251: Hi PP...I was reading a climate change article on the NYT today and thought of you. Thinking we should grab coffee soon, what do you think? How's your schedule looking?
HER 1509: Hah, that's a good connection in mind! Let's meet up at grand central today after work? what do u think?
Me 1547: What time were you thinking?
HER 1550: I am a bit flexible this afternoon. My boss left the office already.
Me 1558: How convenient
I'm off around 6:30. There's a great coffee shop near GCT called ________. What do you think?HER 1600: Ha, the name is funny. Ok. So meet u there at 7pm?
Me 1604: Sounds good. See you soon.
<Anti-flake>
Me 1830: I'm on my way. When you get there I'll meet you by the front door.
HER 1902: Which front door?
Uh oh, logistical screw up. I looked at my texts and realized I never sent at address, and she probably went to the train station when instead this place is ten blocks away. I called her up and told her that I screwed up, that I thought she would look up the address and so didn't text it to her. She apologized to me for not looking up the address herself as well, and said she didn't mind walking over and would make it there in ten minutes.
Texting continued:
Me 1907: I screwed up, should have sent you the address. ___ __ st between ___ and ___.
HER 1909: Well it is my fault. No worries. I like walking.
Me 1910: See you soon.
----
COFFEE DATE, FRIDAY 3/28
She showed up ten minutes later looking great, and she went for the handshake like in business. I didn't reciprocate, and instead touched her elbow and asked her what sorts of trouble she caused that day. She instead started talking about how nice a walk it was, and apologized again for being late and explained that she likes being on time. I told her no big deal, I messed up and I'm glad she made it.
I led her in to the store by the small of her back. When we got to the counter she joked that I should pay for her since she got lost and had to walk all this way. I gave her a puzzled look and she backed off instantly, and said instead that no, its okay, I'm just going to get it myself. I offered to pay at this time and she declined.
When we were waiting for my coffee to come, I continued to ask about her day and how it's been going. I mentioned that before she said she had a naughty side, and if she'd caused any trouble that day. She mentioned she's naughty in a mean way. But not in the way I would be thinking. I respond by telling her that I don't judge either way, that I am an open minded guy and appreciate honesty.
We moved to sit. I suggested we sit next to each other on the couch. She declined. I didn't persist too much, I said ok, and then sat on a single seater while she sat on another. I started talking and she can't hear me over the music. I then sat on the couch myself. The entirety of the time that she was talking to me, she was leaning into me. This never really changed, and she never crossed her arms either. Typically, her hands were reachable to mine.
We again spent a lot of time deep diving across a variety of topics, and it turns out she has traveled frequently on her own. She tells me her gut tells her that I am a bad man, and that I am also a nice guy. She tells me she is genuinely good, but also mean. We eventually agree that like attracts like and she feels we are on the same page, as independent and good, but with a darker inner side as well.
Some other topics:
- Family - an only child
- Work - how she was inspired.
- Where else she would live.
- What brought us to our respective places in life.
- She was very intrigued to hear more about me and asked all sorts of questions.
I made physical contact once again by examining her jewelry on her hand, and she didn't hold it in place, she pulled back instantly.
I ask what she is doing after this. Going home and sleeping, working in the AM. I tell her I'm probably going to chill and watch a movie.
I tried to pull her home, using the whole yes ladder: "are you having a good time?" (yes) "the night is too young to end, dont you think" (yes) "so why don't we let it continue" and she suggests going to watch a movie. But that will take long. She backs out when she realizes it will be 11 when she is done. I suggest we go to my apt and watch, and she also declines. She says she hasn't been to a theatre in the city, but then thinks about it and realizes it might be too late. I could definitely have taken her with me to a movie if I persisted once more.
Soon after I tell her I'm hungry. I get up to leave and we leave together. She asks if I am going to walk her to the train station; I say why don't we swing by a few blocks and check out this cool architecture.
----
WHERE THINGS WENT SHITTY, around 8:30:
I took her on route to show her some of the cool architecture in the area. On the way she tried to make me carry her bag from her. I joked that I'll carry it for her if she carries mine for me. When she felt how heavy it was she apologized and changed her attitude and said I hold the bag well. En route she called me a nice friend, but I didn't comment.
I paused to explain the buildings, a major landmark. She was most intrigued. And then I went for a kiss close.
I went for the kiss by attempting a manhandle. The moment felt right. She was talking about buildings and asking questions, there was no one around us, there felt like slight tension, and the night was definitely peaking. At this point she was also right next to me, and I wanted to use Chase's bold surprise kiss scenario.
Well, I went for it and she didn't accept. She backed off and then pretty much said "whoa, whoa,what are you doing? We are just friends and I don't really do the whole hookup thing." I went the blunt route and said "listen, it just felt right to do that, but there's something bigger I want to talk to you about. You mentioned the word "friends" on the walk here, and I wasn't sure what you meant by that. I like you, and I'm not looking for us to be just friends."
After everything happened my demeanor changed pretty dramatically. I knew I was fucked, and I got quieter and more serious. Her subsequent response was to point this out.
Some of the things that she said (and my replies in <>):
- I think you're just looking for fast sex or a hookup, and I'm not looking for that <who said anything about sex? Where is your mind right now? The only thing I said is that I don't want to be just friends>
- I like to be friends with guys, and it sounds like you're looking for a relationship <I never said anything about a relationship either! But I do think that you're cute, fun, and charming. I like to go with the flow>.
- You probably move fast with other girls but that's not going to work on me, because we just met <I smirked and replied "so you don't enjoy hanging out with me, then? And you're not having a nice time here?> and she replied that she is having a nice time and its fun.
- My gut feeling tells me that you have bad intentions, and that you're probably a playboy <I told her that I am in a period in my life where I don't really know what I want, and then asked about how long it has been since she has been in a relationship.> She replies it has been a year and a half. She asks the same of me and I admit to it being a little over half a year.
We spent about twenty minutes sitting down, where I basically explained to her very bluntly that I want to continue hanging out with her because I like her, and the reason I talked to her in the first place is because of her cute features. When I got to know her a bit more, I actually enjoyed the time we spent, and like that we get along well in our own way. She is fun and charming, and dorky. She agreed that she also enjoyed the time she spent with me.
As I was much quieter now, she kept apologizing and making sure that I am ok, that she didn't mean to hurt my feelings and. I told her no, you didn't hurt my feelings and I don't need her solace, but that I am just a little upset that I fucked up and I feel like this isn't going to work out anymore because I opened up.
She always made gestures to touch me, on my shoulder typically, but never actually did it. Sometimes this happened while laughing. I continued to Kino her lower back as I had before.
I walked her in the direction of the train, and I showed her and walked her through the very cool lobby of the building. At this point we were both being super awkward together. She kept asking if I'm ok, and I kept saying I'm fine. I kept bringing up not wanting just friends, and she kept saying she understood. She points out that it seems like I'm walking her to the station, and that's so nice. I challenge her: first, I ask if she wants me to leave and not walk with her. She says no. Then I tell her that my subway is also in this direction, and I'm walking her this way because I am enjoying the time that we are spending together. She agrees. We then exchange frames that we are both being super awkward.
At one point on the walk back she also said something very intriguing:
HER: When we met on the train and you asked for my number, I actually told my friends and bragged to them, that a guy asked for my number and he is actually pretty cute.
I am not sure if she was just trying to make me feel better.
At parting, I dropped her at the entry to the train. I suggested we hang out again. She promised she would. I told her we can figure it out later. I went for a cheek kiss, and she denied me. She said "lets just hug" and I said "No, I don't do the hugs thing." She then offered her hand for me to kiss, and I accepted and did that. As I walked passed her she held eye contact for three seconds and said goodbye.
----
All sorts of wrong here. However, I am thinking about it and something similar happened with an ex GF of mine who I dated for a year and a half - when I made bold moves on date 1, she rejected, but over time she slowly warmed up to it. So maybe she is slotting me into a boyfriend role? Or is it just friend land?
Thinking it might be best to let this cool off for a few weeks, then reach out again.
Either way, I really blew it hard last night. When I went home I felt miserable and went to bed immediately
