Compliments, a touchy subject (who knew?)

[Orgasmatron]

Hey guys,

I believe there is a bit if debate about whether or not offering up some lady compliments makes you appear to be a low value proposition to foxy chicks.

Had a thought on this.

If you've already established yourself as a high value proposition to her, then doesn't a compliment from you carry more weight?

So, needy weakling says "wow, you're very pretty" and Samantha Fox thinks "yeah, whatever, just another boring nobody who thinks I might show him my tits if he tells me I look nice."

But surely if super cool hero dude says "wow, you're very pretty" then isn't Samantha going to think "well, this guy has already proved to me that he's pretty awesome, so it could be cool to show him my tits and it might be fun if he came on them too!"

I realise it likely to be a lot more nuanced than that but if she thinks you're cool (or dominant or alpha or whatever) then isn't she going to feel differently about you being obviously into her than she would if she thinks you are a boring loser?

 

[ulrich]

Good compliments increase make women like you but increase your attainability.

With attainability you don’t want extremes (too attainable, too unattainable).:: need to keep that one balanced.

 

[Orgasmatron]

Good compliments increase make women like you but increase your attainability.

With attainability you don’t want extremes (too attainable, too unattainable).:: need to keep that one balanced.

So, if you are less attainable you become more desirable?

 

[Will_V]

Hey guys,

I believe there is a bit if debate about whether or not offering up some lady compliments makes you appear to be a low value proposition to foxy chicks.

Had a thought on this.

If you've already established yourself as a high value proposition to her, then doesn't a compliment from you carry more weight?

So, needy weakling says "wow, you're very pretty" and Samantha Fox thinks "yeah, whatever, just another boring nobody who thinks I might show him my tits if he tells me I look nice."

But surely if super cool hero dude says "wow, you're very pretty" then isn't Samantha going to think "well, this guy has already proved to me that he's pretty awesome, so it could be cool to show him my tits and it might be fun if he came on them too!"

I realise it likely to be a lot more nuanced than that but if she thinks you're cool (or dominant or alpha or whatever) then isn't she going to feel differently about you being obviously into her than she would if she thinks you are a boring loser?

The thing is that her perception of you is tied to what you say. So you can't just be 'super cool' and also giving compliments all the time, because they cannot be separated. So while a compliment from a cool guy is pleasant for her, her perception of him is also modified by the event.

I believe one of the more important aspects of seduction is to trade value for attainability as close to the bedroom as possible. Remember sexual escalation is already very high attainability - since if you've shown intent and she says 'no' all the guy's value is blown up, essentially - he can't get the things he wants.

The thing is that when you are there in front of her, your presence is your wildcard - all your fundamentals, if they are good, can hypnotize her, fill her with pleasure, make it difficult for her to rationalize any doubts. And once you've banged her, your value is sealed since she has already given her worth to you, she can't rationalize you as a low value guy without taking a big hit to her self esteem.

So it's important to not be too attainable if there is a period where you won't be with her before you bang her. This is something I have learned very well recently, lately I was giving too much good feelings on the approach, showing way too much attainability, since it felt good and we both enjoyed it. It was mainly a result of having started again after getting rusty and wanting to ensure that the approaches were fun for me.

But afterward it was very hard to text, because she had already received pleasure from me without sex, and no doubt thought I was a guy she could probably get if she wanted to anyway, since I showed tons of attainability, which is never a good thing with women. And since I wasn't there anymore to hypnotize her with my presence, I lost control of the situation.

I think attainability is good to think of like rationing water if you're out in the desert. Once you drink some water (show attainability) it can't be gotten back, essentially. You have to control how much you drink so that by the time it is gone, you don't need it any more.

 

[Vision]

There's no way you can broadly generalize anything around compliments in any way.

What matters is YOUR style, how you compliment, how often you compliment, etc.

I have a friend who is a natural (I like to call him a supernatural) who is easily better than any pick up artist I've ever seen or heard about in my entire life, hands down.

This guy would go out 30 days and he'd pull girls 25+ days of those. And the girls were really hot. And this isn't hearsay, I watched him do this over and over again.

It was unreal how good this guy was... and he's short... like 5'7 or 5'8 or something.

Part of his whole thing was compliments, making someone (anyone) feel really good about themselves. If you talk to him, half the time he's talking (and this mf can talk), he's building your self esteem up... the other half he's building himself up, force framing, telling wild stories, and making you feel comfortable around him.

And he got laid like a fucking rock star... daygame, internet, night game, this guy could and did do any and all of it like a fucking champion.

I've never seen anything like it before or since. He's married now.

Obviously, there was a lot more things that he does than just compliments though and he did it all naturally.

HOWEVER, most guys compliment out of THEIR need to get validation from the girl or they do it in ways that are generic and boring or they do it way too often or in a bad context or whatever.

If it's coming from a needy place, she'll almost certainly feel that.

If you do it too generically and too often, it won't hold a lot of weight to it.

If you do it on superficial things, you'll sound like every other guy out there doing it.

If you do it and she hasn't earned it, she might start questioning why you're doing it.

But you can compliment a girl if you're coming from the right place, you know what you're doing, and you're not doing it excessively.

I'm a big fan of testing (in everything in life). If what you're doing is getting results, keep doing it. If it isn't, try something different that's already proven to work.

I know guys who NEVER compliment and it works for them. I know guys who compliment a lot and it works for them (because they're doing it the right way). And I know guys who are somewhere in the middle.

Most PUAs that I know use compliments very specifically to either build a frame (like the qualification frame or sexual frames), to sexualize the conversation, or to build an emotional connection through validation.

If you're having problems and you're complimenting a lot, you should probably only do it during those times. If what you're doing works the way you want it to, just keep doing it or try modifying it and seeing what new results you get.

 

[Will_V]

There's no way you can broadly generalize anything around compliments in any way.

What matters is YOUR style, how you compliment, how often you compliment, etc.

I have a friend who is a natural (I like to call him a supernatural) who is easily better than any pick up artist I've ever seen or heard about in my entire life, hands down.

This guy would go out 30 days and he'd pull girls 25+ days of those. And the girls were really hot. And this isn't hearsay, I watched him do this over and over again.

It was unreal how good this guy was... and he's short... like 5'7 or 5'8 or something.

Part of his whole thing was compliments, making someone (anyone) feel really good about themselves. If you talk to him, half the time he's talking (and this mf can talk), he's building your self esteem up... the other half he's building himself up, force framing, telling wild stories, and making you feel comfortable around him.

And he got laid like a fucking rock star... daygame, internet, night game, this guy could and did do any and all of it like a fucking champion.

I've never seen anything like it before or since. He's married now.

Obviously, there was a lot more things that he does than just compliments though and he did it all naturally.

HOWEVER, most guys compliment out of THEIR need to get validation from the girl or they do it in ways that are generic and boring or they do it way too often or in a bad context or whatever.

If it's coming from a needy place, she'll almost certainly feel that.

If you do it too generically and too often, it won't hold a lot of weight to it.

If you do it on superficial things, you'll sound like every other guy out there doing it.

If you do it and she hasn't earned it, she might start questioning why you're doing it.

But you can compliment a girl if you're coming from the right place, you know what you're doing, and you're not doing it excessively.

I'm a big fan of testing (in everything in life). If what you're doing is getting results, keep doing it. If it isn't, try something different that's already proven to work.

I know guys who NEVER compliment and it works for them. I know guys who compliment a lot and it works for them (because they're doing it the right way). And I know guys who are somewhere in the middle.

Most PUAs that I know use compliments very specifically to either build a frame (like the qualification frame or sexual frames), to sexualize the conversation, or to build an emotional connection through validation.

If you're having problems and you're complimenting a lot, you should probably only do it during those times. If what you're doing works the way you want it to, just keep doing it or try modifying it and seeing what new results you get.

That's interesting. There's a kind of attitude I noticed that I have sometimes that works well especially in group social settings, which I call 'grandstanding' where I am very nice and cheerful with people but with a sort of aggressive intensity, as if I'm on a mission to create an atmosphere of goodwill by sheer strength. It comes naturally when I'm in a certain kind of mood, and I can tell it creates a combination of pleasure and pressure that makes other people focused on me.

It tends to come to me when I've built up a certain amount of social momentum, and is definitely not always at my disposal.

It sounds like it might be the kind of thing you're talking about here. I wonder if this is the right frame for compliments? Where the other person feels almost pressured to rise to the level of the compliment by the type of energy behind it? Where the compliment comes with an energy that almost feels like an expectation?

I'll think on this one. I've never liked the idea of holding back, being coy, faking disinterest, that sort of thing. My natural mode is directness and strength. Might be a good idea for me to try pushing further in this direction.

 

[Orgasmatron]

Hi guys,

Thanks. There's a lot to digest there. I'm away for the weekend so I'll be able to take a proper read if things when I get home.

One thing that pops out seems to be that you need to be careful that you don't give to much power away (maybe power isn't quite the right word for it) by completing too much or if she hasn't done anything to earn it.

Thanks, all very interesting

 

[Fuck This]

Did she earn the compliment or did you just give it away?
Did you frame the compliment as if it qualified her to you? "I liked the way you....", "I was impressed with how....."
Is it a genuine compliment or fluff that is easily dismissed?

FWIW these rules also apply to the way you compliment your kids (could be your biological children or kids you mentor or coach). You are giving positive reinforcement for an action in hopes that they continue to perform the action.

 

[ulrich]

So, if you are less attainable you become more desirable?

Not exactly.

Go to Girlschase and search articles for attainability.
It is a little hard to explain concept that plays a huge role in every seduction.

The point is this, you want the girl to feel like she has a chance to win you over if she plays her cards right.
It’s a feeling that you need to keep in track (too little is bad, too much is bad) and makes her decide if you’re her #1 option or her #20 option or if you’re in the race at all.
And almost every single move you make (compliments included) has an impact in attainability.

 

[Orgasmatron]

Not exactly.

Go to Girlschase and search articles for attainability.
It is a little hard to explain concept that plays a huge role in every seduction.

The point is this, you want the girl to feel like she has a chance to win you over if she plays her cards right.
It’s a feeling that you need to keep in track (too little is bad, too much is bad) and makes her decide if you’re her #1 option or her #20 option or if you’re in the race at all.
And almost every single move you make (compliments included) has an impact in attainability.

Cool. Thanks for the reading tips.

Got a lot to read over next few weeks, so I'll hopefully start to get my head round all this stuff, but definitely starting to see how the way I was looking at things was pretty basic.

Cheers guys

 

[Orgasmatron]

Did she earn the compliment or did you just give it away?
Did you frame the compliment as if it qualified her to you? "I liked the way you....", "I was impressed with how....."
Is it a genuine compliment or fluff that is easily dismissed?

FWIW these rules also apply to the way you compliment your kids (could be your biological children or kids you mentor or coach). You are giving positive reinforcement for an action in hopes that they continue to perform the action.

Thanks,

I don't have kids but that helps a lot to illustrate it that way. I understand what you're saying.

You want them to behave a certain way so you tell them great job on you're homework and they are more likely to do their homework.

Great job on your makeup and she is more likely to get her lipstick all over your dick. Or so you think.

Cheers

 

[MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla]

@Gunwitch sorry to bug you but I had an experience like this on Friday.

Was walking the main strip of my area and had seen a cute girl, short white dress. My type which doesn’t often happen.

She was quite obviously nervous about the ensemble and had been behind me walked ahead and stopped.

I approached from behind, *[This is where Im guessing my biggest mistake was]

I gave a compliment in saying “gorgeous legs” and asked if she’d like to hold my arm to wherever she needed to go.

She meekly said no, so I assumed she was out on a date cause she was dressed nicely.

So yeah to add to the discussion. I am also wondering if perhaps I should go into negging as my go to instead of complimenting. For example instead of saying “gorgeous legs” maybe opening with, “you look like the type who has a short fuse” [she was five footish.]

MuST0

 

[Orgasmatron]

Thanks guys,

Tbh I think a lot of this has gone over my head and I'm struggling to understand it.

The point is this, you want the girl to feel like she has a chance to win you over if she plays her cards right.
It’s a feeling that you need to keep in track (too little is bad, too much is bad) and makes her decide if you’re her #1 option or her #20 option or if you’re in the race at all.
And almost every single move you make (compliments included) has an impact in attainability.

For instance (and this is how basic I am), I can't get my head round this.

So, I'm approaching her, because I want something from her. So, to my mind, I have to do stuff to get that from her. So I don't understand how an approach goes from me wanting to bang hot girl and presenting myself in such a way that she'll agree to this, or let me bang her if you like, to become a situation where she is the one doing the chasing. So if I started the interaction, and the reason I started it is because she is hot and I want to bang her, I feel she holds all the cards and I'm the one that loses out when she says no. Because she is hot, she just has to wait around until some guy she likes comes over and says hi and then she gets laid if she wants. Whereas because I'm the dude, I have to go round and try to prove myself to various women until one of them eventually gives in and agrees to fuck me. She's hot, she can bang whoever she wants. I'm not, I'm just some dude who likes the look of her, I don't have that level of choice.

And one of the ways to get her to like me enough for her to agree to let me sleep with her is to compliment her. I genuinely don't understand how I can start the interaction and it become about her having to qualify herself to me. I kind of have first of all get her permission bto talk to her in the first place. She can simply walk away or say she doesn't want to talk to me.

I know my mindset is completely wrong, but that's where I'm at. I'm at standard idiot guy with no clue level.

Trying to get my head round frame and compliance this week.

Attainability was mentioned too

Is there anything else I should read about to my thinking right on this?

 

[ulrich]

I know my mindset is completely wrong, but that's where I'm at. I'm at standard idiot guy with no clue level.

Trying to get my head round frame and compliance this week.

No, it’s OK. You’re just starting.

You are not an idiot with no clue, you’re just at beginner level and it is time to move up the ladder to intermediate level.

That’s why I strongly suggest you learn about attainability.
In my opinion that alone is the difference between beginner and intermediate.

So, I'm approaching her, because I want something from her. So, to my mind, I have to do stuff to get that from her. So I don't understand how an approach goes from me wanting to bang hot girl and presenting myself in such a way that she'll agree to this, or let me bang her if you like, to become a situation where she is the one doing the chasing. So if I started the interaction, and the reason I started it is because she is hot and I want to bang her, I feel she holds all the cards and I'm the one that loses out when she says no. Because she is hot, she just has to wait around until some guy she likes comes over and says hi and then she gets laid if she wants. Whereas because I'm the dude, I have to go round and try to prove myself to various women until one of them eventually gives in and agrees to fuck me. She's hot, she can bang whoever she wants. I'm not, I'm just some dude who likes the look of her, I don't have that level of choice.

And one of the ways to get her to like me enough for her to agree to let me sleep with her is to compliment her. I genuinely don't understand how I can start the interaction and it become about her having to qualify herself to me. I kind of have first of all get her permission bto talk to her in the first place. She can simply walk away or say she doesn't want to talk to me.

The thing is most girls don’t want you for the sex.
Yeah, girls enjoy sex… yeah, it is fun and an orgasm is amazing… and who doesn’t like fucking?
But to a girl, unless she is horny/ovulating that is not her main concern. She wants a man who commits.

Here’s the thing… unlike men, women can get sex whenever they want… but it has more drawbacks… she can get pregnant… or she can get attached easily… or the guy can hurt her… and if people know she is sleeping around, that’s a hit to her reputation.
And most guys will just fuck and leave… never caring for her.
Every girl has a story of a guy who seemed mr. right but he simply didn’t give two cents about her.
She wants to fuck but she rather wait for the guy (or guys) who are worth it.

And that’s the thing… you’re looking for sex… she is looking for a committed man.
Mind you, not any commited man the same way you’re not looking for any girl with open legs.
Women will only fuck the top guys they meet (and this “top” is highly subjective depending on her history, beliefs and personality)… but she is saving herself for the best suitor.

So you go and talk to her because you want to fuck. What can you offer her?
The promise of romance… the feeling that she found one of the best guys around that can give her life fun and excitement… and that… if she plays her card right… she may end up getting.

And that’s why mystery is important.
“Is this guy someone I can fall over?… yeah, he likes me… or so it seems… but can I really get him?”

 

[Orgasmatron]

No, it’s OK. You’re just starting.

You are not an idiot with no clue, you’re just at beginner level and it is time to move up the ladder to intermediate level.

That’s why I strongly suggest you learn about attainability.
In my opinion that alone is the difference between beginner and intermediate.




The thing is most girls don’t want you for the sex.
Yeah, girls enjoy sex… yeah, it is fun and an orgasm is amazing… and who doesn’t like fucking?
But to a girl, unless she is horny/ovulating that is not her main concern. She wants a man who commits.

Here’s the thing… unlike men, women can get sex whenever they want… but it has more drawbacks… she can get pregnant… or she can get attached easily… or the guy can hurt her… and if people know she is sleeping around, that’s a hit to her reputation.
And most guys will just fuck and leave… never caring for her.
Every girl has a story of a guy who seemed mr. right but he simply didn’t give two cents about her.
She wants to fuck but she rather wait for the guy (or guys) who are worth it.

And that’s the thing… you’re looking for sex… she is looking for a committed man.
Mind you, not any commited man the same way you’re not looking for any girl with open legs.
Women will only fuck the top guys they meet (and this “top” is highly subjective depending on her history, beliefs and personality)… but she is saving herself for the best suitor.

So you go and talk to her because you want to fuck. What can you offer her?
The promise of romance… the feeling that she found one of the best guys around that can give her life fun and excitement… and that… if she plays her card right… she may end up getting.

And that’s why mystery is important.
“Is this guy someone I can fall over?… yeah, he likes me… or so it seems… but can I really get him?”

Thanks, that's really helpful.

I work in marketing, so I'm thinking of things along those lines at the moment, where my fundamentals are a bit like my brand image and my unique selling points, and I have to give her some sort of value proposition to peak her interest.

So I have to demonstrate that I am of high value (obviously I have to actually be of high value, but I'm working on that) and then the question for her is "do I have enough to offer this guy in exchange for access to his high-value status?"

And if I give her loads of compliments, for instance, then I'm lowering my market value and becoming more attainable to a wider range of women, and somewhere there is a tipping point where I've lowered myself so much, and positioned myself as just the same as all the other guys who are vying for her attention, that she, as a high-value female, loses interest because being with me is no longer something that is unique and special.

So she wants a Gucci hangbag, and if I am just a high street store handbag, then she isn't interested. But If I am an exclusive high-end designer product that few people can afford, then everybody wants me, but only a select few can have me, and if she has me then everyone thinks she must be cool, because she can actually get this very expensive designer product. And if I do the same things as all the other guys then I'm not special, I'm just a high street store product, so she's not interested.

But at the same time, I need to be something that she can afford, ie be attainable in some way, so If she can't afford Gucci, but she can afford a luxury high street brand, then I need to position myself like that, so I'm at the top of her price range and she can, just about, afford me.

Don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but I think I'm starting to get the picture.

I'll check out some articles on attainability and add them to my reading list for the week.

Cheers dude

 

[Will_V]

Thanks, that's really helpful.

I work in marketing, so I'm thinking of things along those lines at the moment, where my fundamentals are a bit like my brand image and my unique selling points, and I have to give her some sort of value proposition to peak her interest.

So I have to demonstrate that I am of high value (obviously I have to actually be of high value, but I'm working on that) and then the question for her is "do I have enough to offer this guy in exchange for access to his high-value status?"

And if I give her loads of compliments, for instance, then I'm lowering my market value and becoming more attainable to a wider range of women, and somewhere there is a tipping point where I've lowered myself so much, and positioned myself as just the same as all the other guys who are vying for her attention, that she, as a high-value female, loses interest because being with me is no longer something that is unique and special.

So she wants a Gucci hangbag, and if I am just a high street store handbag, then she isn't interested. But If I am an exclusive high-end designer product that few people can afford, then everybody wants me, but only a select few can have me, and if she has me then everyone thinks she must be cool, because she can actually get this very expensive designer product. And if I do the same things as all the other guys then I'm not special, I'm just a high street store product, so she's not interested.

But at the same time, I need to be something that she can afford, ie be attainable in some way, so If she can't afford Gucci, but she can afford a luxury high street brand, then I need to position myself like that, so I'm at the top of her price range and she can, just about, afford me.

Don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but I think I'm starting to get the picture.

I'll check out some articles on attainability and add them to my reading list for the week.

Cheers dude

I think you're on the right track, but I suggest not to get too caught up in the whole thing of 'value'.

Think about the last time you met someone and it just made you feel great to be in their presence. You hung on everything they said, you found yourself paying them way too much attention. It probably wasn't because they looked like they had status or social value per se. But instead, they made you realize something about yourself, about a certain way that someone can experience life, they made you feel something deep under the surface of social conditioning that aroused your consciousness, something you feel the need to approximate yourself to and understand better. Being around them feels like a discovery of something exciting.

This is the kind of value, in my opinion, that leads a woman to an impulsive sexual experience. This is the kind of thing that is not possible to evaluate logically. It reaches too far into the emotions and the spirit to be something you can weigh on some scale of social value. This is what cuts right through a woman's 'rules', because her rules were designed for something of an entirely other nature.

To experience this kind of value in one's own life, and then to be able to communicate it to other people, is a skill that must be developed from a lot of different angles. And compliments are just one way to give a woman sufficient sense of worth that she feels able to reach out and grasp the hand of her destiny with you.

 

[Vision]

I work in marketing, so I'm thinking of things along those lines at the moment, where my fundamentals are a bit like my brand image and my unique selling points, and I have to give her some sort of value proposition to peak her interest.

So I have to demonstrate that I am of high value (obviously I have to actually be of high value, but I'm working on that) and then the question for her is "do I have enough to offer this guy in exchange for access to his high-value status?"

Not necessarily. That's one way to think about it and that's based on an older model of PUA stuff that you CAN work from but don't have to.

There are other models that you can work from as well... you could argue that they create different types of value, if you want to.

One model (and I think it's a better model) is to assume that you're high value and start from that position... that way you're not demonstrating value.

Because does a high value man have to demonstrate that he's valuable to people? No, only a low value man has to do that.

A high value man just assumes his value when he talks to you and never needs to show you how high value he is.

There's another model that's far more interested in triggering her primal desires... mode 1 is an example of that model... where you come in super hot, with a sexual opener.

There are other ones that are lighter too... some of the sexual framing models, where you focus on sexual connection in more of an indirect way.

If you get her primal desires pulled out and give her space to freely express them without judgment, she's far more likely to want to act on those desires and then it's just a matter of time from hanging out with you, leading her to the land of sex that it actually happens.

If you're just interested in sex, these models are probably a lot better than the value based models, especially the value based models that say you need to raise your value in a woman's eyes.

And if I give her loads of compliments, for instance, then I'm lowering my market value and becoming more attainable to a wider range of women, and somewhere there is a tipping point where I've lowered myself so much, and positioned myself as just the same as all the other guys who are vying for her attention, that she, as a high-value female, loses interest because being with me is no longer something that is unique and special.

No, that's not how compliments work. Giving a girl a compliment doesn't lower your value, even in the value based model.

But why are you giving her a compliment? What are you complimenting her on?

Saying that a compliment lowers your value is a broad generalization on a topic that has a lot of nuance.

So she wants a Gucci hangbag, and if I am just a high street store handbag, then she isn't interested. But If I am an exclusive high-end designer product that few people can afford, then everybody wants me, but only a select few can have me, and if she has me then everyone thinks she must be cool, because she can actually get this very expensive designer product. And if I do the same things as all the other guys then I'm not special, I'm just a high street store product, so she's not interested.

Does she want a gucci handbag? Or does she want to feel desired, romanced, like she's in a movie where a man cuts through all the bullshit, looks her straight in the eyes and drives her wild with sexual passion, free from inhibitions and all of the bullshit society tells her to think and feel and then fucked like she's being owned, cherished, and protected?

If you're trying to be the gucci handbag, you're probably like all the other dudes trying to prove to her that they're a gucci handbag.

But at the same time, I need to be something that she can afford, ie be attainable in some way, so If she can't afford Gucci, but she can afford a luxury high street brand, then I need to position myself like that, so I'm at the top of her price range and she can, just about, afford me.

I think this is way too heady and analytical for what's actually going on.

But I think this is a model that you can work through if you want to.

You're high value... you come to her and question her value... then you agree that she can play in the big leagues and that you're not really out of her league... then it's you two looking at the world from the lense of you both being high value.

That's a model that you can work with.

 

[Skjöldr]

Does she want a gucci handbag? Or does she want to feel desired, romanced, like she's in a movie where a man cuts through all the bullshit, looks her straight in the eyes and drives her wild with sexual passion, free from inhibitions and all of the bullshit society tells her to think and feel and then fucked like she's being owned, cherished, and protected?

If you're trying to be the gucci handbag, you're probably like all the other dudes trying to prove to her that they're a gucci handbag.

love this. dont play their game, play your own game. you and her. circumvent all the stupid rules she have in her head. let all the other dudes date her 5 times and buy her stuff while you be the EXCEPTION

Because does a high value man have to demonstrate that he's valuable to people? No, only a low value man has to do that.

A high value man just assumes his value when he talks to you and never needs to show you how high value he is.

kinda disagree here. you need to establish relevance to a girl. a high value man isn't passive, he just isn't lying. This is where the gentleman pua gamers come in (rise up...). to properly DHV is the art of the bullshit story telling. if you just stand there and wait for her to figure out on her own that you are high value good luck. personally i like pre-selection stories/references for DHV or prizing.

 

[Vision]

kinda disagree here. you need to establish relevance to a girl. a high value man isn't passive, he just isn't lying. This is where the gentleman pua gamers come in (rise up...). to properly DHV is the art of the bullshit story telling. if you just stand there and wait for her to figure out on her own that you are high value good luck. personally i like pre-selection stories/references for DHV or prizing.

That's a good point and there's a question about what "DHV" stories are actually doing and how necessary they are.

I'd argue that a high value man isn't doing all this shit that we do... but then I guess we'd need to question what a high value man is and how relevant being a high value man is to picking up a girl...

Naturals sometimes do this stuff, often they don't though... is he a high value man because he's a natural? Often they turn women on and just lead them to where they want them to go... or force frame them into some kind of sexual frame... or they're very natural and fluid at getting sexual with them without needing to do all the "DHV" stuff.

I'm not sure what you're referencing when you mention prizing but DHV stories aren't necessary to show that you're a prize that she needs to win over.

If I tell a preselection story, it is setting a high value frame... but so is teasing her since a guy wouldn't tease a woman unless he believed he had equal or higher value than her... actually just being calm, ballsy, and indifferent to the outcome is setting a high value frame since a guy who was intimidated by a woman wouldn't act like that.

Is that story demonstrating value, setting a frame, telling her that I'm a prize, telling her primal mind that it's normal for a woman like her to be super attracted to me, or some kind of combination of the above?

I've found that preselected stories about gay men hitting on me do similar things.

I guess we'd need to get into a big discussion about what value is, how it's demonstrated, and what it means to unpack this but I will say that most of the wealthy, secure, confident men that I know don't go around telling DHV stories to show people their value. They just have a different demeanor than most men.

But most of them also aren't slaying vaginas since they aren't as focused and worried about that.

It's kind of like the difference between wealthy people and high income earners... wealthy people often live less lavishly and nobody knows they're wealthy while high income earners would need to file bankruptcy if they lost their jobs within a couple of months but everyone thinks they're wealthy because of all the dumb shit they buy.

Hmmm

 

[Fuck This]

@Gunwitch sorry to bug you but I had an experience like this on Friday.

Was walking the main strip of my area and had seen a cute girl, short white dress. My type which doesn’t often happen.

She was quite obviously nervous about the ensemble and had been behind me walked ahead and stopped.

I approached from behind, *[This is where Im guessing my biggest mistake was]

I gave a compliment in saying “gorgeous legs” and asked if she’d like to hold my arm to wherever she needed to go.

She meekly said no, so I assumed she was out on a date cause she was dressed nicely.

So yeah to add to the discussion. I am also wondering if perhaps I should go into negging as my go to instead of complimenting. For example instead of saying “gorgeous legs” maybe opening with, “you look like the type who has a short fuse” [she was five footish.]

MuST0

I'm cringing reading this....

There are SO MANY other ways you could have framed this!

First, introduce yourself...

Second Find out what she is doing there and then.

Third let her know you are a cool, and reliable guy who isn't going to throw her in a white van after spiking her drink.


you are lucky she didn't pepper spray your rude ass.