Conservative Girl w/ Boyfriend

[NotJamesBond]

Hey fellas-

So without getting too romantic, I met this treasure in my current semester of college. I go to college in a town/university with pretty conservative values (that I actually have as well, I know I'm in the minority here ) and she seems like the kind of girl whose home-spun with values and high fidelity. I have read a few of the boyfriend articles on what to do and it seems like this is slotted firmly into the "show up later" category. Thing is, I am absolutely certain she wants to be my friend now. I met her and this other girl (no interest but us 3 chilled a little after class) in class, we've sort of established a rapport. She seemed like she may be interested in me (I have decent fashion and fundamentals) but I may have just been misreading things- I can't tell really, because despite her boyfriend she could still be interested in me but is leaving it at that. This blows! She's a cool girl but I don't want to sabotage my chances, do I just phase myself out, focus on other girls, then maybe (if the situation permits) show up some time in the future? Should I push the envelope a little bit first to see if I can be the "different rogue" in her life? Thing is, I genuinely may want to pursue something with her. Obviously, I don't want to break her up if she is genuinely in a healthy relationship that she enjoys, but I also don't want to let her skit by if I'm a better option she's open to.

The best,
Anthony

 

[Smith]

Some girls with bfs may flirt a lot because they're looking for an "upgrade" and also they got nothing to lose if you reject them. They might do it just to get some attention and taste what it may feel like to be single again. If you really want something with this girl, don't act like her bf. Be the lover who provides adventure and sex.

 

[ray_zorse]

Too future focused here. Read Eckhart Tolle "The Power of Now". Then, what r/ship do you want w this girl RIGHT NOW? (1) Try to seduce her, or (2) be her friend and hang with her, or (3) be nice but minimize contact b/c you're in different places right now. Dreaming of future r/ship is poisonous as you know nothing of her situation, she may have a wonderful healthy r/ship with her bf and marry him someday, if so good for her.
Ray

 

[NotJamesBond]

Thanks guys, really good advice, I appreciate it.

Could I befriend her without absolutely killing my chances of dating later? I genuinely am into this girl and I don't want to be -too- distant, but we certainly are in different places.

On the flip side, I have nothing to lose either and could accept the challenge of wooing this chick, but then I'm shooting myself in the foot because I'd be competing with her boyfriend who already has the victory.

You're right Ray, I'm a little hung up on "later". Again, if I choose to be her friend and hang with her, I'll surely be ensuring we never date, correct? Might have to go with option c. That is certainly true, I do not know the details whatsoever of her relationship- this has all been speculation. If so, good for her indeed. Whatever makes her happy, she is an autonomous human with a will of her own. I'm just going to have to get over the cold, hard reality of her having a boyfriend (minor sarcasm, though I'd be lying if there weren't a hint of truth in it).

Smith, I see you're adhering to Chase's articles on this. Thing is, I don't want sex with her. I know that's criticized here for logical reasons but I just can't reconcile my personal values. I assume there's no way to be adventurous and sexy...only without the sex, is there? Ha. Could you be adventurous and chaste? Maybe if you're only shooting for other chaste girls...Just spit-balling.

How does this sound: I was going to try to do semi-covert flirts and see how she responds.

Once again, thanks guys. I'm going to still talk to her but not go full-on friend mode.

 

[ray_zorse]

I see, well I deliberately did not include "try to work out whether she is attracted and make a move if so" in the options I gave because this is what the average chode does and why he never gets laid, if you want something to happen you have to commit yourself / take a risk and make a move, she may of course say no but getting used to rejection is a huge part of being a seducer, I got rejected probably 10-20x for each time I got laid this year but I'm still miles in front compared with the dudes who didn't ask for dates / numbers, try to kiss her etc.

On a slightly different track, you said you don't want to lay her, that doesn't make sense, you saw her and got a hit of dopamine and adrenaline as you identified a mating opportunity, and this intensified as you flirted with her, it's basic biology / biochemistry that cannot be denied, you wouldn't have written this post if you did not want to lay her. The confusion arises through social conditioning that you must unlearn to get in touch with your true animal self.

In any case MOVING FAST is what is taught here. And nobody forces you to accept this teaching if it's in conflict with your values. But the reason is rooted in a proper understanding of female attraction. As a rough guide every hangout with no sex halves your chances of eventual sex. Fine you say, she's pure I just want to hang with her and eventually propose marriage! NOPE! You may feel you are getting closer but it's an illusion. A sexy guy will come along and destroy that vagina and leave you with your dick in your hand (bitter experience speaking).

Ray

 

[NotJamesBond]

I genuinely do know a girl who refuses the D, she has identical values to me. It can be done friend, though it is not an easy path. I am not sure of this current girl's personal values regarding sex, but if I had to guess it was just of the "wait until you're serious/in love/in a healthy relationship with someone" variety. Don't worry, I won't be left with my dick in my hand. I appreciate the warning, but I'm set in my ways. Also, I'm not necessarily looking for marriage quite yet.

Thanks for all the advice,

Anthony

 

[ray_zorse]

I felt like I had said my final words on this topic, but I just stumbled on this article and thought of you. I can personally attest that it's true, and in fact the most prim and pure girl I ever dated (a conservative Catholic who believed pre marital sex was a sin, had to pray for God's forgiveness every time we made love, and wouldn't even countenance oral sex) turns out to be the dirtiest little slut you can possibly imagine, read about her in my journal.
Ray

 

[NotJamesBond]

Funny you just replied Ray, I was in the process of making my own extra post! I have read that one before and completely agree with it- all girls are naughty, some just need a little unleashing- but I still firmly believe there is a context for it all, you know? As you probably assumed, I'm Christian as well and for me that context would be marriage. Sounds corny, but I really do feel that way. Sex is wonderful and dirty and naughty and the dirt is apart of the beauty of it, it just has a proper context. A man is meant to get down and dirty with his wife and vice versa- at least, that's how I see it. It can be done too, just takes some willpower: I know this religious girl who dated a guy for two years and they only kissed, for one instance. Fewer and fewer these days, but people do it. You both just need to communicate what you want out of a relationship. Now, this website completely disagrees with that and that's fine, I'm just trying to find ways to apply it to my own life. You're a trooper Ray, I really appreciate what you're doing for me here, even if it entails a little yank back down to Earth from the clouds. Now, here's the post I originally was going to make:

Hey guys, I thought about this a little bit more, tell me if it would work. Tear it apart if it's bogus, encourage it if it's solid, whatever. Here goes:

She does not know I know she has a boyfriend (FaceBook is beautiful). Adhering to Chase's article (https://www.girlschase.com/content/girl- ... ign=buffer), I intend to NOT try and be her boyfriend but instead will offer her adventure. Perhaps in the process she'll decide she wants me more than her current man, but that's her decision to make. I am still going to talk to her, etc. Once the ball gets rolling, I'll ask her to lunch as if I was asking any other woman (speaking of which, I completely whiffed with this Mexican cutie who was clearly into me just the other day, but that's another story...didn't think on my feet quick enough). My point is, at some point (SOON, I am going to be moving fast for this) I'll realize if she is very fond of or in love with her boyfriend or not. I am in the dark as to their status. If she is, I will back off and either take our friendship further expecting nothing more or less, or "drop out" and relegate our relationship to "friendly classmates" until further notice, which is what we have been anyway. This begs a bit more explanation, however:

Earlier I said I'd try "later" since she has a boyfriend now. I meant I'd move on, drop out of her life beyond talking in class (we've only hung outside of class once anyhow) and focus on other girls rather than "wait" for her exclusively. As Ray suggested, I suppose option c (from his first post) would be this. Above all, I'll keep the golden rule of "don't chase" in mind. Sound good so far? Maybe I was misreading it, but there was just something in her that seemed like she's a touch interested in me. Not only that, but I'm more invested in her than I would be in just some random girl in the hall (as tantalizing as those can be...), she's one of my types. Won't chase, though! I started to get the mindset of it but cut that crap out right away.


Now on to my MUCH BIGGER question:

I suppose I already know the answer, but humor me. Is there ANY WAY to be the "adventurous, sexy man" without sexing her? Could I simply kiss/make out as a replacement? I am trying to apply all of this wonderful advice to my lifestyle and it's giving me a headache. I suppose you could argue, without sex, I'd just be a "fun" guy and that's a one-way ticket to the friend-zone. I said this in the beginning of this post, but I'll finally, fully address it: I am a hardcore Christian and take all that stuff incredibly seriously. "What are you doing here?!" you're probably wondering, haha. It's a great site! It's just difficult for me to filter it through my faith because of the strong emphasis on sex as soon as possible...Still great. Having stated that, I suppose the wider question is: can a deeply religious fella like myself filter all this stuff or is it a fool's errand? I think you can, you just need to communicate.

Cheers and plenty of beers,

Anthony

 

[Fuck This]

I think fundamentals of attraction are the same regardless of whether the goal is sex or not. I do think that you will need to provide a benefit in the realm of making her feel special in your company. You have heard of "Emotional Affairs?" People are in them for the feelings the other person inspires within them.

Come to think of it, Sex is a shortcut for eliciting the dopamine dump people seek in a relationship. Without sex you will have to nurture feelings of trust, togetherness, belonging and worth with your words and actions.

 

[ray_zorse]

I really disagree with this. Unfortunately without sex you will be constantly "on trial" and being evaluated as a potential mate. And you WILL fuck up somewhere down the line. Plus needy thoughts will surely creep in about the eventual sex you are planning to have (whether you tell yourself this or not). The rules TOTALLY change after sex, to your advantage (she begins to chase for commitment) and hers (she can relax and enjoy you instead of evaluating you).

Regarding the article, to say "naughtiness is good... in a committed relationship" is to COMPLETELY miss the point of the article. To say "let's be boyfriend and girlfriend" without even having laid her, basically hands all the power to her, and paints you as a very weak and beta (rule following) male. She WANTS to break all the rules. She WANTS you to force her to! DO NOT believe anything she says! Especially if you went in with your current attitude she will OF COURSE agree for fear of being judged. And then take you for a massive ride. In my view a r/ship without sex is basically a fantasy, it's not for real.

I'd also suggest to watch some of Christopher Hitchens's videos on Youtube. This guy is VERY good at pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of Christian so-called "moral" values. Just watch with an open mind. And realize this site exists for good reasons, it does not make sense to cherry-pick the advice. If you can reconcile GC advice with your faith, as many others can, then good (faith tends to be QUITE FLEXIBLE where the "sins of the flesh" are concerned, as Hitchens points out brilliantly). Otherwise, something has to give, or you are not going to enjoy yourself very much (to borrow a phrase from Rowan Atkinson Live -- "Hello and welcome to Hell", haha).

Ray

 

[Smith]

NotJamesBond,

I think you're thinking way too many steps ahead with this girl. "Should I just kiss/made out with her? and not escalate to sex?" You don't even know if she's interested in going out with you one on one yet. This kinda thinking will get you in trouble friend. You're already chasing an outcome instead of being outcome independent.

I'm Christian as well and for me that context would be marriage. Sounds corny, but I really do feel that way. Sex is wonderful and dirty and naughty and the dirt is apart of the beauty of it, it just has a proper context. A man is meant to get down and dirty with his wife and vice versa- at least, that's how I see it. It can be done too, just takes some willpower: I know this religious girl who dated a guy for two years and they only kissed, for one instance. Fewer and fewer these days, but people do it. You both just need to communicate what you want out of a relationship.

Sexual compatibility is important too. Do you want to find out sex with her is not that great after you get married?? Some people just aren't sexually compatible, even though they can have a good connection and conversation.

Think of sex as a way to build connection and develop chemistry.

It is possible to just kiss/madeout with her and not escalate to sex, but you have to remember she has a bf....This probably would've been fine with a girl who's single and into you, but when she has a bf, time is really not on your side once you start to escalate. When she goes home to bed with her bf and he fucks her hard, she won't even be thinking about you, or she'll keep playing you on the side because she likes the adventure you provide too...Sorry but that's just the reality. When you understand how much women love sex, there's no reason why you won't wanna give it to her.