FU Crash And Burn

[Hue]

Really bad night.

Went to my usual Thursday place, and everyone is back for the school year so it was packed. Ran into my coworker and tried to flirt but she was uninterested - so time to stop going for my coworkers before I become some creep (reoccuring theme of the night).

I'm playing pool and this HB6 with nice legs opens me and is clearly very interested. Many IOI's. I'm very comfortable looking good at a place I frequent. I decide she's not hot enough and once the game is over start looking for potential girls to fuck.

I open this HB7 brunette who I've talked to before and wanted to see if she remembered me. We chit chat and her friends kinda let me plant into the conversation, before her drink runs out and they're all about to play some game. I say we'll go get new drinks (they're super cheap here) and she pauses then agrees. We get our drinks and I ask her to hang out and stay on the wall with me and talk. She does and we talk for an hour or so, then I eventually ask her to leave to check out the nature preserve near my house (my new place to take girls before I pull them, at least what I want to do). She says no and needs to talk with her friends. I say that's fine and we go back to her friends.

Her friends are very friendly with me and talkative. I chat with them and lose my girl, then find her again talking to some dude. I'm very warm in my approach and greet the guy, who's a bouncer. He immediately goes, "oh is this the creep?" I look at her, then him and say "excuse me? haha. I'm the creep, [girl]?" and she's obviously uncomfortable. He amusingly presses me on this and I explain that I have no problem with being rejected, and if she isn't interested she should just say so, and that we've been talking for over an hour. He kind of seems to be listening to what I'm saying but not giving me any power, and I eject.

Moments later I'm opened by an HB8 blonde who I thought I'd never see again. At the end of last semester she greeted me on the stairwell of a bar, and I immediately felt something for her. She's in a popular sorority. I kicked myself because I went to use the bathroom and lost her. She opens me and it's her birthday. She's very interested in me and was impressed by a presentation I gave in the psychology building. We talk for about 15 minutes and her friends slowly become welcoming to me and giving me IOI's. We all start to leave to go to some after party.

I'm in a great mood because I've been super hoping I'd run into this chick again - and here she is giving me interest and leaving the bar with me. On the way out the bouncer says he'll see me later and I'm walking out side by side with this chick - it also stroked my ego in that regard. I got a huge ego boost because to him it looked like I just walked up to a new, hotter girl, and left with her. This is a facade, though I let it possess me.

We start coming towards the place, and we're right next to the nature preserve. So, logically, I ask her to put a pause on the party and walk with me down the preserve. She agrees to leave the group, with me, and go to the nature preserve!

We're about halfway through, and then she stops, says she should go back, because she has a boyfriend. I see this as ASD, and respond fucking HORRIBLY to her resistance. I explain that I don't have orthodox views about relationships, and she explains that she loves her boyfriend and isn't going to do something that would be disrespectful to him. I should have fucking stopped, and left back with her to the party. That would have been FINE.

Instead, I make some hail mary attempt at being romantic and bring up the stairwell where I felt the connection. This is horribly done, and instead of coming off as romantic, I actually came across as needy and chasing. Then, I make the decision to start walking off, and she calls my name to come back. I turn and look at her and she questions how I could possibly just leave a girl at 2 AM on the street. I don't know what to say, and have a heavy amount of cognitive dissonance. I fold and agree to walk her back, but she's already called an uber by the time I decide. My facade begins to leave me and I expose it as such, I even call myself a facade to her in an attempt to be vulnerable and honest.

She's called an uber at this point and is getting out of here. Her facial expressions had gone from all smiles to expressionless and analytical (alert and probably defensive). My drunk ass assumes I'm still invited to the party, and as I try to get into the uber, she reacts, "What are you doing?? No. You go back and do your thing and I'm doing mine." I'm so confused at this point I just freeze up and she slams the car door and drives away. I stand there, blankly, trying to contemplate what just happened.

Also, it was pouring down rain the entire time - just to make it all the more dramatic.

I go home and smoke a bowl, then ridicule myself for how deeply I've become possessed by trying to get pussy and into my entire mental construct being not that of most of peoples when it comes to dating, relationships, and seduction and how this is bad for me on a karma & outcome level if I don't get a better handle on it.

Could really appreciate some insight / direction if anyone has advice to offer.

 

[Marcellus]

Yo Hue,

I've been reading your journal since last year and the strides and improvements you've made have been crazy! Fucking dope as hell bro, keep killing it.

In the report, you said something about letting the Facade possess you? Is this something that happens on the regular? I know it happens to me sometimes for example, when all my white friends are saying how much they wish they were black and could dance like me( just stupid shit like that) and then now I've gotta live up to their expectations and be this super cool guy that they say I am.

I'm only saying this cos sometimes when I read your journal I'll see something and be like "Yo I think Hue for whatever reason is pretending to be someone he's not/else"

I'm not sure if I've articulated clearly what I was tryna say but if you need clarification just lemme know

-M

 

[lao che]

good report. succinct and honest. i "enjoyed" reading it.

you found yourself in a couple of sticky situations, and recognize your mistakes. you'll find it easier to deal with them with more experience.

weird that girl labeling you a creep, would need more detail to figure that one out.

as for the facade ... congruence, brother, everyone'll tell you it's importance. but it takes time, everyone of us has conflicting characters and egos trying to take control. sometimes you'll think 'that's not me' but it is, it's a part of you that's growing, that you wanna nurture, or suppress, depending. it takes time and practice.

it's like (and i might be stretching here, i certainly haven't thought it through before now) when Jordan Peterson talks about Marduk, the King of the Gods, who emerges after all the other Gods struggling and squabbling. your ego personalities are your "lesser gods" battling it out for supremacy, and eventually your "Marduk" will emerge triumphant, your greatest self, the combination of the parts of you you choose, you encourage and nurture.

feel free to ignore that last paragraph )

 

[Hue]

Marcellus,

Yo Hue,

I've been reading your journal since last year and the strides and improvements you've made have been crazy! Fucking dope as hell bro, keep killing it.

In the report, you said something about letting the Facade possess you? Is this something that happens on the regular? I know it happens to me sometimes for example, when all my white friends are saying how much they wish they were black and could dance like me( just stupid shit like that) and then now I've gotta live up to their expectations and be this super cool guy that they say I am.

I'm only saying this cos sometimes when I read your journal I'll see something and be like "Yo I think Hue for whatever reason is pretending to be someone he's not/else"

I'm not sure if I've articulated clearly what I was tryna say but if you need clarification just lemme know

-M

Thanks man! It's been a really fun journey and I hope it continues to be.

So, letting certain facades possess me is an addictive quality of mine to let my ego build up in a way that focuses mostly on external appearance (how I look physically, what it appears I'm doing or about to do, what people think is going on when they look at me). I have a poker face to hide when it might better serve me long term to be honest. I've taken several different girls on dates to the same exact place / plan and people who know me will comment thinking I'm banging all of them (and I don't correct them). I posture myself to look a certain way when in fact I may be struggling internally.

In a shallow way, this feels good. It's externally validating (something I've been working on stopping and will continue to). I got a little rise out of how it looked to the bouncer that just called me a creep, seeing me leave with a hotter girl than the one he "confronted" me about. When I was talking to him I felt uncomfortable because I was on the verge of being dominated by his authority as a bouncer, the discomfort from his accusation, and the discomfort of her telling him I was a creep, but I externally held posturing to not exude this while I handled it the way I did. Even though part of me felt I was in the right and in fact not being a creep, insecurities in me started to boil upon confrontation. So, while I had momentarily forgotten about this after being opened by the HB8, the looming emotions (and their bidirectional dynamics) reemerged as the bouncer called to me again.

Whether this is something that happens to me regularly isn't quite that simple. When I'm meditating regularly (and properly), with people I enjoy, and "in state" I never feel the need to do this, because the real confidence that I FEEL IN MYSELF, and that I'm exuding is far better than posturing. One is how I know I see it (internal validation) which is very powerful, the other is how I think I know how most people will see it (though some see straight threw it, it's a fallible and degrading exercise to some degree). Though when I get in states of discomfort, anxiety, or what have you and I'm actively running from these things, I tend to return to my facade so that no one sees - including me.

To some degree though, "Hue" or "Me" is a person who does this (circumstantially hides in a facade), so I can not with confidence say I'm ever being something I'm not. Sometimes I'm trying out new things and it's incongruent with other characteristics I exude, or it comes off funky because I don't have it down yet. It's too nuanced to generally explain.

I appreciate your comments friend.

 

[Hue]

lao che,

good report. succinct and honest. i "enjoyed" reading it.

you found yourself in a couple of sticky situations, and recognize your mistakes. you'll find it easier to deal with them with more experience.

weird that girl labeling you a creep, would need more detail to figure that one out.

as for the facade ... congruence, brother, everyone'll tell you it's importance. but it takes time, everyone of us has conflicting characters and egos trying to take control. sometimes you'll think 'that's not me' but it is, it's a part of you that's growing, that you wanna nurture, or suppress, depending. it takes time and practice.

it's like (and i might be stretching here, i certainly haven't thought it through before now) when Jordan Peterson talks about Marduk, the King of the Gods, who emerges after all the other Gods struggling and squabbling. your ego personalities are your "lesser gods" battling it out for supremacy, and eventually your "Marduk" will emerge triumphant, your greatest self, the combination of the parts of you you choose, you encourage and nurture.

I think the girl labeling me a creep may have had something to do with:
a). I never really got the fire going with her in conversation / not enough arousal or
b). she saw the bouncer who she previously had a relationship and immediately chose him, throwing me under the bus

Not a concern of mine anymore, to be honest.

Congruence has proven to be one of my first and largest sticking points since getting into dating / trying to be self aware of how I treat women and people in general. I 100% agree that people have conflicting characteristics and a lot of times this will throw people off, but when I'm looking at other people I see it in more of a balance now than I have before - in part because of Jordan Peterson's introduction of Jung's concept of The Shadow.

I found Peterson late last year and binged his videos for weeks, months even - he has a lot of incredible material and points in some of his lectures. Self love is something I've been trying to cultivate for what it really is and have continually been getting better at (despite a few vices that I've realized have been holding me back tremendously). I had a misconstrued understanding of what that meant for so long. It means nurturing yourself to be your best self, not being Kanye lol.

feel free to ignore that last paragraph )

No chance bro. It was almost unsettling when I read this because when I ripped the bowl, after ruminating for what seemed like and hour I forced myself to mediate, and all the chaos in my head began to dissipate, with a deep and powerful, controlled voice rearranging my other thought, err... explosions. Very hard to explain, but archetypally it's synonymous with what you describe there. I'm familiar with Peterson's warning of becoming a "fractured" person and how horrible that can be, but not his lecture of Marduk. I'll have to give it a listen.

Btw if you can stand reading a textbook for fun, find Maps of Meaning somewhere. Good bit of rudimentary stuff, but some excellent explanations in there, I'm currently enjoying it when I find time in my day.

Thanks for the reply man, it's very appreciated. I'll do my best to more deeply examine what areas I need to diminish (instead of run from / suppress) and nurture in myself.

Hue

 

[lao che]

yeah i'd go with number b

i imagine he asked her "what's going on with you and that guy outside?"

"oh nothing, he's just creepin on me"


jordan peterson's recent talk on free speech. he starts to talk about marduk at around 15:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sz2-6RNkjY

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Reading the bouncer part triggered me. I despise people like that. A few things hardcore trigger me and faggots like that are one of them. Problem is, he's a bouncer, so he's probably a good fighter, and he has authority there. At the same time, I know what's going on in his head, so he's being defensive/territorial without cause, so it's coming from a place of weakness (unless she really did call you a creep).

I think your response was good. I probably would have said, "Huh?" and looked at her. Lower effort.

Or look at him, give him a weird look, then ignore him like, "That was strange."

As for the hot blonde, good stuff. Your reflective thought is correct - just go with her to the party. I mean, it's less chance of something happening, but at least it's more fun than a hail mary all or nothing. Who knows. There could be a different hot girl there at the party who will get wet seeing you with her, since her ASD is high.

On walking away from her - man, I've done that too many times. I'm a very emotional guy so I feel that. Problem is that unless you really clearly tell her something like, "Look I just got insecure or whatever. I'm in a weird place, "etc and go SUPER HONESt with her so she knows 100% you're not taking it out on her on purpose, then it might open up some emotional bridge...but being that open with a girl you haven't even shagged is...hard. It's gotta be done right. But by the time you did it, she was deep in the abyss of auto-rejection.

Ruff stuff.

You're in an interesting place growth wise. Keep going.

Hector

 

[Hue]

Notes from my Journal, analyzing this situation last Friday myself, in addition to all of your helpful comments,

I responded to her ASD, specifically her having a boyfriend, with "I have an unorthodox view of relationships", which is implicitly me trying to convince her to cheat. So, I reinforced her ASD and she began to reverse rationalize why she was with me.

Then, I showed unattractive traits and I showed my card, further reinforcing me chasing and a frame of "this guy cheats, he doesn't care" AND "this guy is more emotionally invested in this than me" which is a rather pathetic frame to exude.

When I began to walk off and she reacted, it was more of a reaction to her temporary lack of safety than it was "don't leave me!".

Lastly, I thought too much like a man, and assumed conditional agreements were still in place from our "plans". With women, once the condition of emotion is removed or changed, they will usually find a way to discontinue plans/arrangements in a non confrontational way, which she did. Until I tried to get into the uber, where she was confrontational.

This was all very confusing when I was drunk, disoriented, and having had multiple bad experiences with women in the past few weeks from player reputation, being called a creep, and being consistently confronted by guys about talking to "their" women.

If this does affect my reputation in greek life (and it probably will if I'm at a party with this girl's friends) that's too bad.

Onward and Upward.

lao che,

yeah i'd go with number b

i imagine he asked her "what's going on with you and that guy outside?"

"oh nothing, he's just creepin on me"


jordan peterson's recent talk on free speech. he starts to talk about marduk at around 15:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sz2-6RNkjY

Very possible.

Thanks man I'll check it out!


Hector,

I think your response was good. I probably would have said, "Huh?" and looked at her. Lower effort.

Or look at him, give him a weird look, then ignore him like, "That was strange."

Word. I've been sticking up for myself when confronted more often but this might lend it self to over-explaining / over-investment.

There could be a different hot girl there at the party who will get wet seeing you with her, since her ASD is high.

And with the way her friends were looking at me in the bar there 100% was. Wanted to go for gold, but that's not always practical.

On walking away from her - man, I've done that too many times. I'm a very emotional guy so I feel that. Problem is that unless you really clearly tell her something like, "Look I just got insecure or whatever. I'm in a weird place, "etc and go SUPER HONESt with her so she knows 100% you're not taking it out on her on purpose, then it might open up some emotional bridge...but being that open with a girl you haven't even shagged is...hard. It's gotta be done right. But by the time you did it, she was deep in the abyss of auto-rejection.

Yea and that's what happened. Even when I'm allowing myself to be highly sympathetic / lend my ear to someone that's clearly in some sort of need for getting their emotions out, if I don't know them very well I tend to not want to see them after - whether I understand their suffering or not (which isn't to say I'd treat them all that different).

It's not a very.. effective move for seduction. Maybe if you're super good at emotional fractionation.

You're in an interesting place growth wise.

I've seen you say this to another member on the boards before. Would you explain what this means or would that just disrupt growth?