Criticizing Girls Chase

[Throwaway01]

Hi,



I want to make a debate regarding some of the points in Girls Chase which I find to be flawed
& would like to hear what you guys think of these matters.


Point #1

Friendzone myth (a.k.a. how someone totally became the cuck in some relationship and nuked the whole idea of acting normal around women)
& how Girls Chase views this;

It is completely ridiculous to think that girls could possibly be friendzoned (that girls are un-emotional computers completely different from us that regard men as simply friends, lovers or providers, instead of sensual beings that can be attracted to men, women due to millions of differing reasons)

Or the fact that a friendzone is not something girls use as an excuse to not want to date someone, like a DMZ (De-Militerized Zone) and is totally a thing
like something from a Star Trek episode that immedietly stops her from wanting to be with someone because person 'a' failed to impress or move quickly with the girl in the allocated time thus the girl decided to view him as an object in the friendzone. His personality, looks, their interests etc. had nothing to do with anything, she was just out there looking for quick closing sellers.

According to the POV Girls Chase expresses, A typical girl's encounters would be;


The girl in case was out hunting men in the forests one day and as she was about the cross the bridge she came across 3 men,

1)The provider that she could clearly not waste any time with obviously since she was a warrior.

2)The bad boy that ALL women clearly want because he was so smooth & was closing girls so fast, you'd think he was a crazed realtor
on a hot summer day.

3)The the friend or a.k.a. friend zonable type, the second she saw this guy she started thinking damn I'd like to be friends with this
person so bad right now...

So she obviously picked number 2, since number 2 was a bad boy who had all the qualities that all girls want, and their personalities or level
of connection and attraction are going to be solely based on that.

& these people who talk about how they met and were friends that became lovers or had sex without having a commited relationship are obviously
liars. Who could not have had normal conversations like normal human beings. Infact during the whole period of their
interactions which went on for years the girls were constantly considering if this guy was in her friends zone list or some other list so she could
approve having sex with him, emotions or passion were never there since they had to compute the exact relationship status.


Point #2

Seduction, Attraction & the Online Dating Generals

Now clearly to attract a women it would be a taboo to even consider acting like a normal human being around them instead of some lunatic
making balloon animals and card tricks. Hell I've played Sims long enough in my basement to know that if I continue making card tricks like
5 times exactly she's gonna fall for me & after closing so fast and moving through the steps written in the book regarding seduction she's
gonna get in bed with me in 5 minutes. How do I know that? I'm a bad boy, who keeps a checklist for these things.

Her preferences regarding men or personality types she might possibly find attractive is just nonsense, only men can have these feellings
women are incapable of choosing who to be with.

Infact reading the blog and taking all the right steps to close and how to attract women right there in the spot I'm like a serial killer, who can get a
girl in my bed by just saying these 5 AMAZING WORDS THAT WILL GET GIRLS in your bed and can be smooth. smoothness is important.

These are my views regarding these matters and would like to know what you guys and gals think about them.

 

[Throwaway01]

Hey Radeng,


Thank you, just as nice to meet someone who shares the positive beliefs in debating, rather than trying to blast everything.

Sorry about the disorganization in my previous writing, I noticed now that I should've made a draft before clicking the submit button,
but if you have the time let me know how the question could be written better so more people can understand the issue I'd be
very happy to make the edits.

Now, regarding what you said;

First of all, you should judge GC by reading all of the articles on the getting started part in the middle of the home page and realize that yes these are generally true models that are applied to a wide range of circumstances. They fit over achingly well.

Absolutely, I agree with you on the articles. There are alot of great stuff here! and the articles on this site attracted me to want to learn more and they can be quite quite down to earth which was a great new fresh way of looking at these things however some in my opinion were a bit more belonging to movies than real life.

The example you gave the "bad boy" may not appear to be the bad boy the way you describe. Just in general most girls are attracted to the guy who displays that he has the most options. The way this is displayed is counter intuitive to most guys. Most guys think I have to display how much stuff I have and give it to the girl.

You know I truly like how Chase finally came out as the bearer of truth regarding how Hollywood confused alot of people regarding how relationships work.

I also just noticed after reading your response I may not be using the same definition of bad boy here,

First of all the bad boy in your first mentioning sounds like the person who doesn't try to buy a girls love. Which is congruent with my definition of what girls want in my original post however in this case I think we are talking more about how some people regardless of their relationships with women use their money and efforts in a way they can be exploited and alot of them do.

However the word Friend-Zone is incorrect here since, this isn't exactly friendship but rather scamming or using people based on what they give.
Where as, as I've mentioned before alot of people do become romantically involved after long years of friendship and the word friend zone is I think used both in girls or boys using others and people who are actually friends who may be attracted to one another, rather than some state.

Therefore, considering the objective is to be with women romantically involved rather than being a certain way emulating others doesn't make much sense
as in

The bad boy thinks idc about this particular girl, I know I can get another

Since, when alot of articles are written regarding the mindsets of certain individuals rather than being with women in general, it seems like a lot of people concentrate more on the attractive example part, rather than the objective. Which in turn leads to ALOT of articles written regarding the ideal man or "Übermensch" in certain aspects.

She will likely have sex with the bad boy and hide it from the provider. She will hold sex away from the provider in order to maintain high value and not come off as easy. The friend zoned guy may possibly make a right move on a desperate night if he hangs around and wastes time on her for years and get sex.

I think its really unfair to make women seem as mindless zombies that will probably cheat on their spouses or boyfriends just because they meet attractive or interesting people. Whether the girl has sex on the first second or 5th date here isn't really relevant, all girls have different views towards sex and while some may be more open to the idea others will shy away from it due to personal reasons and thus the girl having sex on the first second or third night or day is not a metric of success to say that you've gained victory over the other types, basically she was open to the idea and you were there at that time.



Sorry for the long post.

 

[Franco]

Throwaway01,

I won't really go into detail on this post as this post is generally asking, "is premise of this website true?" To that, all I can say is to read everything (as radeng mentioned) and try it yourself.

I think its really unfair to make women seem as mindless zombies that will probably cheat on their spouses or boyfriends just because they meet attractive or interesting people. Whether the girl has sex on the first second or 5th date here isn't really relevant, all girls have different views towards sex and while some may be more open to the idea others will shy away from it due to personal reasons and thus the girl having sex on the first second or third night or day is not a metric of success to say that you've gained victory over the other types, basically she was open to the idea and you were there at that time.

To this particular comment, I just wanted to mention that this isn't quite true. As a matter of fact, the speed in which you have sex with a girl actually plays a large part in how "dominant" and "sexy" she views you as a man from then on out. When a girl sleeps with a guy on the first date (or even on the same day/night that she meets him), she rationalizes to herself, "wow, this guy must be so damn sexy and amazing to get me to sleep with him so quickly. I've never had a man move that fast with me, but damn that was HOT."

So the guy who sleeps with a particular woman the fastest actually has the best chance to make the largest impression on her, and it's what her emotions and biology will tell her to go after. So, in other words, if your "friends" with a girl for months and then finally end up capitalizing on some attraction that might be there and sleeping with her, you still won't be on the same level as a man that happens to sleep with that particular girl after approaching her somewhere, grabbing her number, meeting her for a date, and taking her home and sleeping with her right then and there. That man accomplished in less than a week what took you weeks/months/years to accomplish!

This can also be tied to infidelity; the risk of having a woman you're in a committed relationship end up "straying" on you and sleeping with another man goes way down if you're already an extremely sexy and dominant man in her mind -- meaning you're already the guy who took her to bed on Date #1 (or sooner). So, the guy who's in a committed relationship with a girl that he was friends with for quite awhile doesn't have the same hold on that girl, and if that girl were to sleep with another man who beds her immediately, the risk of her wanting to exit the relationship goes up. (NOTE: Of course there are many other factors here, and the girl has to determine whether or not she even has a chance of keeping this other, sexy man. If she feels like he's unattainable, then she won't risk her current relationship that is stable to chase after a guy who seems completely unstable, even if she finds him way more attractive and sexy. At the same time, just sleeping with a man like this can make her realize that there's the potential for a LOT of sexy men out there, and it might cause her to become more curious and seek out other men like him)

There's more here than meets the eye.

- Franco

 

[Throwaway01]

No, this post is not saying

"is premise of this website true?"

since there are A GREAT NUMBER of topics in this website, this post only challanges the 2 issues mentioned

Point #1
Friendzone myth (and the belief of three types of men exist around women and that romance is more of a competition than an emotional exchange with the woman among the 3 types of men)

and

Point #2
Seduction, Attraction & the Online Dating Generals
(which is vague in writing, in which I apologize for however it is mostly about the lack of focus towards women and the focus towards ideal man
along with steps used to seduce women and the view of women as objects in a competition amongst three types of men )

Also it should be mentioned that this post is made to debate these two points, not attack the site.

she rationalizes to herself, "wow, this guy must be so damn sexy and amazing to get me to sleep with him so quickly. I've never had a man move that fast with me, but damn that was HOT."

You're talking about Cognitive dissonance; which is basically a person rationalizing the effects of something that happened to them, In Festinger and Carlsmith's classic 1959 experiment, experimenters paid less to one group while paying a larger sum to the other to provide menial tasks which lead to
the performers of menial tasks to rationalize it by saying it must've been worth it. Ofcourse, this is a generalization and not everyone responded the same
but it seems very similar to the case you've mentioned.

an extremely sexy and dominant man in her mind

All girls have a different view of what is extremely sexy and trying to act dominant like a bunch of schoolboys doesn't always work since some will be turned off by that while others will be turned on. Again this is something that is completely based on the girl obviously.Therefore you can't really generalize in matters as personal as this.

sleep with that particular girl after approaching her somewhere, grabbing her number, meeting her for a date, and taking her home and sleeping with her right then and there. That man accomplished in less than a week what took you weeks/months/years to accomplish!

What you just said shows exactly how much you've organized all of this almost like a factory going over processes in terms of romance. All of these cases are completely circumstancial and to conclude that well what you do is you get the number, meet for date, take her home to sleep with is almost robotic.
Not to mention since your goal here is obviously to just have sex you can just pass the whole get number, meet for date part if she sounds like she's up to having sex but not all girls will respond the same.

 

[Franco]

Throwaway01,

since there are A GREAT NUMBER of topics in this website, this post only challanges the 2 issues mentioned

Yet the two issues you mentioned are pretty much the basis for the entire website. If those two premises did not hold true, neither would the majority of the articles released after them.

Also, it's never been said that women react 100% in one way or another. We never speak on this website in terms of absolute truths since there are no "absolutes" in dating and relationships. There is only probabilities. Therefore, what we try to do on this website is convey what women are most likely to do in given situations so that you can capitalize on them and maximize your efficiency with women. So when you say this:

All girls have a different view of what is extremely sexy and trying to act dominant like a bunch of schoolboys doesn't always work since some will be turned off by that while others will be turned on. Again this is something that is completely based on the girl obviously.Therefore you can't really generalize in matters as personal as this.

...I don't generalize. But the randomness is also not as much of a factor as you'd maybe like to believe. So while there are maybe 10% of women out there who prefer men who are not dominant, there are 90% who do prefer men who are dominant. We don't want to tell guys here how to get the 10% that aren't attracted to sexy, dominant men; we want to tell the guys how to get the 90% that are attracted to them.

What you just said shows exactly how much you've organized all of this almost like a factory going over processes in terms of romance. All of these cases are completely circumstancial and to conclude that well what you do is you get the number, meet for date, take her home to sleep with is almost robotic.

Once you realize that 90% of women behave almost exactly the same when it comes to the way they deal with men, it's natural that certain practices will be more effective than others if you use them hundreds and hundreds of times over and over again to see that it is so. So while you can deviate from the practices we teach here and still find success occasionally, these are the practices that we find most effective and most likely to get you the women you desire, whether that's for a one-night stand, a casual relationship, or a long-term monogamous relationship.

- Franco

 

[Drck]

Great topic. IMO a good way to look at seduction is to compare it to martial arts. There are simply lots of styles, lots of techniques, lots of philosophies, lots of different personalities....

Box is different than karate, Shotokan is different than tae kwon do, jiu jitsu is different than Kung fu, MMA is different than Jeet Kun Do or Aikido... Which one is the best? Is one better than the other?

Well, it always depends what suits your personality the best, what is your philosophy, how much of a fighter you are... Maybe you want to do weight lifting instead, which may not make you a bad fighter either - but you are just doing something else....

So it is very difficult to criticize some aspects of different styles. Some techniques and mind sets are simply more important than others; others may be less useful - yet it doesn't mean that they don't work. They may be excellent in some situations...


FRIENDZONE:
Friend-zone exist, once she shifts you there it is difficult to get that particular girl as a GF. Does it mean that you can't "get her", sleep with her? It doesn't, friends also sleep together, they also become great lovers, but it just takes time...

The reality is that once you are in a friend zone you may spent lots of time and effort to sleep with such girl, while in the mean time you can sleep with 5-10 another girls... The risk that she will not sleep with you is high, and your chances are low...

Is it important? Well, if you want to sleep with 300 girls probably yes, you want to move on and not waste lots of time on one girl. On the other hand, say she is your co-worker and you have some time - so you may simply chose a different technique to "get her"...

A girl may shift you to a friend zone easily. Maybe she is not attracted to you at all, she doesn't want to sleep with you. Does she have to be your enemy because of that? No, you are simply just her friend, a good guy who she wishes all the best... She may always change her mind in the future - should you stick around... But at the same time it is difficult to watch her going out and date different guys, while you were placed "on hold". And if there is a faster guy than you, your chances are almost gone, you will be "on hold" forever.. That's why friend zone is usually a good thing to avoid...

Also, a girl is looking for different things and different men at different times. Not every girl may necessary want a bad boy, she may prefer a nice guy - at that particular time. Today she may be horny and she wants a quick fuck, you seem to be like a great match. Two weeks from now, when her hormones are totally different, maybe she wouldn't even look at you. Four years from now, when she is looking for husband, her friend/provider that she already knows 7 years and always wanted her will be her number 1 choice, and she could care less about some mysterious bad boys... Ten years from now, when she is bored with her life and tired from taking care of kids, she may seek a bad boy again...

So if you are a "bad boy", it doesn't necessary mean that she wants you at this particular time. But what it means is, that if a girl wants to sleep with someone quickly with NSA, she will prefer bad boys to Nice, touchy-feely and slower guys... Since you want to sleep with many girls, learning some "bad boy" behavior will simply save you lots of time by picking up girls who are looking for faster lay...


SEDUCTION.
Like above, what works for one guy may not work for another. You may be a great boxer, but you can suck at tae-kwon-do or aikido. A guy who runs marathon won't probably bench 400 pounds, and a guy who weighs 300 pounds would probably have lots of difficulties running 5 miles - yet both can get laid....

Some may say couple words, blow balloons, show some card tricks and appear mysterious, yet the same may not work for others. So what's better? Better is simply what works for you....

Some things work much better than others. Put a decent clothes on, get a good haircut, stand up straight and look the girl confidently in her eyes, greed her with deeper voice - and chances are that she will find you attractive, interesting, perhaps sexy.... Walk like a bum, talk like a bum, look like a bum, have filthy clothes - well, quality girls will most likely avoid you because you are a bum. They will never risk that somebody will see them with you no matter how sexy you think you are, no matter how confident you are... Do bums get laid? IMO yes, just not with better quality girls...

So the whole point is to find out what works for you. There are some universal things that work better for every guy, and there are things that don't work at all for most. Do we have to know everything from GC? IMO there is no need, if you are an average guy, 10-20% of GC knowledge is more than enough to get laid with good quality girls... Many guys are not happy with 20% though, they want it all, they want at least 110%, which is sort of counterproductive since they have to work ten times harder - to get the same girls...

Perhaps there is a misconception to think that we should become somebody else in order to get girls.... We are who we are, all we can do is to add some new techniques, tools and behaviors that are useful to get what we want...

 

[Chase]

Curious thread. Some of the points seem to be discussing non-Girls Chase thought, or mix us up with a different site/method. Some of it seems to be based around a black-and-white interpretation of GC material, which text-based communication can unfortunately foster (everything on this site is best interpreted conditionally and with a "shades of gray" mindset, not an absolutist one... but it's hard to get most guys to read it that way).

That said, comments:

It is completely ridiculous to think that girls could possibly be friendzoned (that girls are un-emotional computers completely different from us that regard men as simply friends, lovers or providers, instead of sensual beings that can be attracted to men, women due to millions of differing reasons)

This is opposite to anything expressed by myself or the other writers, unless I'm forgetting some bit somewhere.

Every guy on here who's good with women has women he's friend zoned, and many of the guys who aren't that good with women have too.

This entire website itself is devoted to empathizing with women in order to do better with them, and we're repeatedly correcting guys who come in with the "women are just totally different and they're terrible and don't make any sense!" viewpoint.

Or the fact that a friendzone is not something girls use as an excuse to not want to date someone, like a DMZ (De-Militerized Zone) and is totally a thing

The OP seems to have confused "the friend zone" with "let's just be friends."

LJBF is the "excuse to not want to date someone" he mentions - a polite rejection.

Friend zone is "hey, sorry, I can't make drinks with you tonight, but can you spellcheck this paper for me? I'm terrible at proofreading and you're SO good at it =D", repeated many times over weeks, months, or years, with the guy doing lots of nice favors for the girl, and the girl holding out the carrot of "someday!" while saying, if ever directly confronted, "But I thought he just wanted to be friends!"

like something from a Star Trek episode that immedietly stops her from wanting to be with someone because person 'a' failed to impress or move quickly with the girl in the allocated time thus the girl decided to view him as an object in the friendzone. His personality, looks, their interests etc. had nothing to do with anything, she was just out there looking for quick closing sellers.

This sounds like something the OP did pick up from GC, but misinterpreted.

Connection/compatibility/attraction is a big modifier here, absolutely. The more a girl digs you, the more wiggle room you've got to use bad game and still get the girl. If this weren't the case, 95% of men would die virgins. Fortunately, strong connections (or other random factors... maybe she's just really horny, and screw it, this guy doesn't know what he's doing but I need to get laid... etc.) exist that let guys get laid and get girlfriends despite not being super skilled with women.

Perhaps leaving that out of an article on the friend zone is an oversight (I assume the OP is talking about this one), however, if a guy's got a great connection with a girl he isn't going to be in the friend zone and he won't be reading an article about the friend zone. He'll be excitedly going on date after date, possibly messing up and getting more chances from the girl anyway, and eventually hopefully he gets his girl.

The guys reading the friend zone article are mostly all going to be guys going, "Man, I've been doing so much for this girl but she just won't put out... wonder if I'm in, like, the friend zone or something... psssh, nah, that wouldn't happen to me...!"

According to the POV Girls Chase expresses, A typical girl's encounters would be;


The girl in case was out hunting men in the forests one day and as she was about the cross the bridge she came across 3 men,

1)The provider that she could clearly not waste any time with obviously since she was a warrior.

2)The bad boy that ALL women clearly want because he was so smooth & was closing girls so fast, you'd think he was a crazed realtor
on a hot summer day.

3)The the friend or a.k.a. friend zonable type, the second she saw this guy she started thinking damn I'd like to be friends with this
person so bad right now...

So she obviously picked number 2, since number 2 was a bad boy who had all the qualities that all girls want, and their personalities or level
of connection and attraction are going to be solely based on that.

Haha... that'd be quite a spectacle.

Obviously the reality is there's a million different things you could be to a girl, and this is a rough categorization. These things also aren't totally exclusive, as I discussed in What Women Want. The ideal man is Friend, Lover, and Provider... all 3, wrapped in one. All roles have desirable characteristics for a girl.

The point of this site, however, is to teach men the fastest and most reliable path to bedding (and dating, if they so choose) the women they want, and the fastest and most reliable path is not by wining and dining her and taking her to fancy shows and doing a lot of nice things for her and telling her impressive stories about that time he traveled to Fiji with his investment banker friends and nothing else interesting happened the whole trip (but hey - he's rich!). That stuff works sometimes, but the hit rate is a lot lower, so that isn't the method we teach.

Plenty of other things factor in here, all of which are covered under what're categorized as "game" and "fundamentals" here (personality is pretty much 100% fundamentals; connection is fundamentals for the "what do you understand and what can you connect on" part and game for the "how good are you at forging that connection?" part; attraction is largely fundamentals with a dash of game mixed in).

& these people who talk about how they met and were friends that became lovers or had sex without having a commited relationship are obviously
liars. Who could not have had normal conversations like normal human beings. Infact during the whole period of their
interactions which went on for years the girls were constantly considering if this guy was in her friends zone list or some other list so she could
approve having sex with him, emotions or passion were never there since they had to compute the exact relationship status.

Again, misinterpreting the information here.

You see a man walk out of the casino having hit the jackpot, and he's $5 million richer.

Some guy sets up a website saying, "Look, you can't expect you're going to go to the casino and come out richer - 9 times out of 10 you're going to come out poorer having gained nothing but a few wrinkles and sad tales. Let me show you some methods to make money that are more effective than this - in fact, the most effective methods I've found."

Another guy drops by and says, "So you're saying no one wins at the slots? And that guy who won that $5 million was just lying about where he made his millions?"

That's not what the guy is saying. Sure, there are folks who've done it. Does it happen so often? Nah-uh. Are there better ways to do it with a far higher rate of return on average? Uh-huh.

Now clearly to attract a women it would be a taboo to even consider acting like a normal human being around them instead of some lunatic
making balloon animals and card tricks. Hell I've played Sims long enough in my basement to know that if I continue making card tricks like
5 times exactly she's gonna fall for me & after closing so fast and moving through the steps written in the book regarding seduction she's
gonna get in bed with me in 5 minutes. How do I know that? I'm a bad boy, who keeps a checklist for these things.

What's a normal human being again?

Funny thing, normality: each of us is raised differently by parents and environment.

Some of us grow up in pretty cool households that well prepare us for socializing with others and easily finding success.

Many of us are lacking in these departments, however, and look on in awe and envy at all those "normal human beings" who get the things they want out of life and then, when asked how they do it, simply reply with "Duh - just be yourself!"

So, the masses go out and say, "Okay, here I go - just going to be myself!" and spend years of their lives just being their regular normal selves and racking up failure and disappointment.

Many (but not all) women and guys who've had it fairly easy in life stumble onto a place like this and say, "Posh - people don't need something like this! They just have to be themselves! That's what's always worked for ME, anyway..." without stopping to realize that it might be possible there are those out there who need to learn how to be "normal" first, because for whatever reason they didn't come equipped with it and didn't pick it up along the way.

There are those as well out there for whom "normal" is not enough, and they aspire to something greater. For whom the average and the ordinary is depressingly sparse and empty, and for whom only great ends inspire.

For both of these men - the man who is not normal, yet wishes to be... and the man who is more normal than not, yet aspires to something greater... there is this site.

For the man who is normal and is happy with normal, sure - this place is pretty useless. Perhaps an interesting curiosity worth killing some time with. But he's not the guy it's for. There are a million other places on the web built for him he can go to when he wants to find a place better suited to his interests.

(I won't go into "card tricks and balloon animals" because that just seems to be the OP's proxy for saying "anything you don't unconsciously know already - just be yourself!")

For more on the whole "just be yourself, you don't need game!" shebang, check out this: Just Be Yourself: The Worst Dating Advice Known to Man.

Her preferences regarding men or personality types she might possibly find attractive is just nonsense, only men can have these feellings
women are incapable of choosing who to be with.

Directly opposite anything taught here (or quite possibly misinterpreting this site as some kind of "Do this one trick and it works every time!" deal).

Infact reading the blog and taking all the right steps to close and how to attract women right there in the spot I'm like a serial killer, who can get a
girl in my bed by just saying these 5 AMAZING WORDS THAT WILL GET GIRLS in your bed and can be smooth. smoothness is important.

Then you've misinterpreted the site.

The focus here is on building passive value as a man (fundamentals) and learning the general steps that come during a date / conversation / seduction (game).

There are a handful of savants out there who know all this stuff by the time they're 13 and never have to study it. To those men, I tip my hat. I try to make friends with them when I meet them, because every one of them has a unique style and a unique subset of women he's uniquely good with.

There's also a large contingent of "normal" guys out there who get laid once or twice a year and get into monogamous long-term relationships with girls who are fairly okay for them, and they're happy with this and have no interest in changing it or improving in anyway. Those guys and I don't really interact because we just aren't interested in the same things; I have no value to offer them (they have no interest in learning what I have to teach; they're not interested in better results) and they have no value to offer me (I have no interest in learning what they have to teach; I'm not interested in how to be happy with average).

Should clear stuff up or provide fodder for conversation.

Always good to debate and clarify, of course; makes for healthy discussion and superior understanding.

Chase

 

[Big Daddy]

Hey Franco,

I think all the points on this thread are addressed; so I'd like to discuss somewhat of a tangent here...

This can also be tied to infidelity; the risk of having a woman you're in a committed relationship end up "straying" on you and sleeping with another man goes way down if you're already an extremely sexy and dominant man in her mind -- meaning you're already the guy who took her to bed on Date #1 (or sooner).

I really like how you present your thoughts on these matters - it's always refreshing and I always end up realizing something that I hadn't before. Now that you mentioned, it makes complete sense. Why would a girl risk a relationship with a guy that she already knows that is as manlier as it gets for some other dude that might not compare to him?

But then there's this side: I was talking to a girl who just turned 18 recently. She is as typical as it gets: lost her virginity when she was 15 to her boyfriend at the time, then broke up with him when she was 16 and would hookup with some guy here and there but would never fuck them, until she left to college. Not naive, naive per se... a young girl with submissive personality traits, but definitively curious about sex.

Then, on her freshman year of college, she fucked roughly 1 guy per month (about 9-10 dudes total). A couple of them within hours of meeting.

(Is 1 guy/mo a lot to begin with? It sounds fair to me...)

And this is a normal girl. She is a very smart, cute, submissive girl... but nothing special in particular. She isn't hot by popular standards, nor is a slut. I'd say she likes sex very much and is curious about it and probably often put herself in situations where she can be seduced (uses Tinder, parties moderately, etc.), but I think that's expected. So I'd assume all other college girls are somewhat close to these numbers - or more if they're hot/gorgeous/popular/"sluts"/adventurous/etc.

My point is... take a typical girl. She went to college, where even typical girls have lots of sex. If this trend goes on, this girl would've certainly fucked more than 30 dudes by the time she is 22. She probably slept with a considerable amount of them within hours. I know that seducing a girl fast has lots of benefits, but does moving fast with a girl play a major role in preventing cheating?

I'm under the impression that the vast majority of 7+/10 college educated girls - which is to say, 99% of the girls we'd approach - that didn't have a boyfriend in their 17-22s have fucked more than 20 guys. So while not sleeping fast with a girl puts me in a disadvantage (negative score), I don't see how sleeping fast with her could necessarily "add points" to me (regarding her cheating or not)... Could you shed some light on this?

 

[Franco]

BD,

Then, on her freshman year of college, she fucked roughly 1 guy per month (about 9-10 dudes total). A couple of them within hours of meeting.

That's definitely not typical. This girl was very sexually curious, and she dove headfirst into hooking up the second she got to college. There's definitely a big handful of girls who do this, but it's not the majority.

In general, a girl like this just values sex less then a girl who hasn't had it as much. So giving her the best sex she's ever had (and preferably very fast) is going to raise your chances drastically of being able to keep her, but her infidelity risk is still high because she doesn't put as much value on traditional morals and puts more value on exploring her curiosity. There's a lot more variables at play here.

I'd have to get more data to be conclusive on this next point, but I also think that when a girl makes herself "available" to hook up for a night that she doesn't place it on the same "level" as being seduced by a guy when she least expects it. So for example, if a girl goes out one night because she's super horny and just looking to get laid, then she's not going to hold the guy who gives it to her in super high regard because she knows she didn't have to make him work for it; she basically just wanted to "bust a nut" so to speak!

But if you cold approach a girl who wasn't expecting to find a suitable guy right at that moment and somehow turn her head and make her sleep with you that same day or on the first date, then you've definitely blown her away. She thinks, "wow, where did this guy come from? How did he get me in bed so fast?! That was SO sexy!" This is different from the guy she hooks up with at the bar because she went to the bar to hook up, and she basically took the best offer available.

I'm not 100% sure on this one yet, but this seems to be the case from most of my experiences. I would love to hear if anyone else can draw connections here as well. =)

- Franco

 

[Big Daddy]

Yeah, this is something that got me in a mind fuck of sorts. Because according to this infographic:

I'd say that a girl that had 20 partners had a lot of partners, I mean, 20 dudes... But when you think about it and put it this way:

She didn't have a boyfriend, and slept with 1 new guy every 2 months during college

It sounds fair... doesn't it? And it doesn't sound like a whole lot of work for a 7+ girl. All she had to do was attend a couple parties in a 8 week period which had a high probability of her hooking up with someone by the end of the night. Or use Tinder during the time she wasn't partying. Plus, being a girl in college, I'm sure she'd have guys trying to bang her even outside of parties, etc.

Or is my perception a little bit skewed?

 

[Smith]

BD,

It sounds fair... doesn't it? And it doesn't sound like a whole lot of work for a 7+ girl. All she had to do was attend a couple parties in a 8 week period which had a high probability of her hooking up with someone by the end of the night. Or use Tinder during the time she wasn't partying. Plus, being a girl in college, I'm sure she'd have guys trying to bang her even outside of parties, etc.

Or is my perception a little bit skewed?

I think you're letting one girl skewing your perception a bit here. I know girls who are "7+" and aren't partying or tindering like crazy or they're barely getting any attention in college or they're happily in a relationship. The example you gave was like what Franco said..not typical lol. Don't judge a girl based on their looks. This means don't see a so-called "10" and assume she's partying like crazy and having sex left and right. She might be the most conservative girl you'll ever met and only had one relationship. I certainly have friends like this.

 

[Big Daddy]

Hey Smith,

Yeah, certainly. I don't know if I expressed myself clearly, though - it's not that looks equals more guys. But if you take a girl that is "attractive enough" to draw attention from guys, she doesn't have to do a lot of work to get laid if she so desires.

So if you think about absolute numbers - a girl that slept with 20, 30 dudes... that sounds like a lot. But if you think about what that actually mean (Tindering moderately, attending a couple of parties, dressing slightly more sexy than other girls only during the time she's in college), that's pretty doable. So doable, in fact, that I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of girls did it like this one I mentioned in particular does.

Most of my female friends aren't close to those numbers - probably around 3-10 depending on the girl, but they're about 22-23. Still, most of them were in a LTR during their 17-22s. So that's I wanted to hear from you guys.

What would you consider the typical partner count for the typical 17-22 girl in college?

 

[Smith]

Yeah, certainly. I don't know if I expressed myself clearly, though - it's not that looks equals more guys. But if you take a girl that is "attractive enough" to draw attention from guys, she doesn't have to do a lot of work to get laid if she so desires.

Yes and no, depends on your definition of "work". Putting on makeup is a lot of work, so is going to the gym to stay in shape, buying sexy clothes, going to hair salon for a couple of hours every month...etc. The list goes on.

What would you consider the typical partner count for the typical 17-22 girl in college?

3-5. My guess.

 

[Franco]

BD,

What would you consider the typical partner count for the typical 17-22 girl in college?

Averaging age 17-22 is not a good measure since those girls are not in the same class. Once girls hit 21 and they start going out to bars and surrounding themselves with alcohol, their numbers can spike tremendously.

So a better question would be to ask how many partners from 17-20, and how many from 21-23?

• 17-20: Probably 3-5 like Smith mentioned
  21-23: The answer is "???" and entirely depends on the girl's personality

If the girls goes out a lot when she turns 21, then she's going to increase in partners dramatically. If she doesn't, then it will probably go up at the same rate it was before.

- Franco

 

[ray_zorse]

(I won't go into "card tricks and balloon animals" because that just seems to be the OP's proxy for saying "anything you don't unconsciously know already - just be yourself!")

I think what OP means is routine-base game, like described in "The game" by Neil Strauss, the dudes would load their pockets up with interesting stuff to complement their routines. To clarify to OP, GC is more about natural game than routine-based game, although some of the articles deconstruct routine-based game and provide some useful tips on why the routines work and how the same principles can be applied in natural game, for example this article.
Ray

 

[Big Daddy]

Yes and no, depends on your definition of "work". Putting on makeup is a lot of work, so is going to the gym to stay in shape, buying sexy clothes, going to hair salon for a couple of hours every month...etc. The list goes on.

I get what you're saying

But I could argue that the guys around here have to do the same in order to fuck a girl here and there. I was just referring to the fact that as a guy, it isn't until you are at the absolute top of the pyramid that girls start lusting after you and you have to put way less relative work to get pussy. Until then, girls have a higher numbers of "prospects" (abundance) than guys have, thus, an easier time fucking someone if they want.

Averaging age 17-22 is not a good measure since those girls are not in the same class. Once girls hit 21 and they start going out to bars and surrounding themselves with alcohol, their numbers can spike tremendously.

Oooooh, so that's might be the reason you guys are thinking that those numbers are so absurd. I hadn't taken that into consideration. I'm not in the US; the legal drinking age here is 18, so the spike you're talking about start to happen when girls turn 17-18 (since in college you could probably get plenty of it on other student's parties at 17 with no problems) -- typically when they leave for college.

Once she's 18, the girl gets alcohol, parties, bars, college, dudes around and leaving home all at once. That's why a girl fucking 1 different guy every 2 months (specially considering that that are times during the year that makes them hooking up with someone very likely, such as New Year's Eve parties abroad, Halloween parties, spring break, etc.) during college for a couple of years doesn't sound like a whole lot to me. It actually sounds like a pretty sustainable "habit" if she manages to stay single during college...

So, my assumptions aren't that off the mark considering this, are they?

 

[Throwaway01]

Hi everyone,


Thanks again for your answers, and clearing up perhaps some of my misunderstandings.
I'd like to sum things up alittle here, please correct me if you think what I wrote is mistaken.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Point #1
Friendzone myth (a.k.a. how someone totally became the cuck in some relationship and nuked the whole idea of acting normal around women)
& how Girls Chase views this;

Due to the ambigious use of the term in this thread, I should say, I was using the "Oxford Dictionaries"'s definition
on top of my head which is expressed as (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... riend-zone)

informal
A situation in which a friendship exists between two people, one of whom has an unreciprocated romantic or sexual interest in the other: I always wind up in the friend zone, watching them pursue other guys

Sum

My view
In my opinion, Friendzone is still bullshit,
This has been expressed quite well here
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/ne ... -bullshit/

GC's view (If I'm not misunderstanding)
Friendzone exists as an excuse by manipulative women that use the possibilty of having sex with
desperate men for gaining non-reciprocated favors.
Let's just be friends also defined as LJBF is a polite rejection form for romantic requests.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Point #2
Seduction, Attraction & the Online Dating Generals

Also, not sure if GC supports this but the act of trying to quantify and calculate one's efficiency in relationships are a common sight
in GC forums, where relationships are viewed without feelings and passion like some cold heartless people from the Apple's 1984 commercial.

recently an example of this was posted on this thread here;

So if you think about absolute numbers - a girl that slept with 20, 30 dudes... that sounds like a lot. But if you think about what that actually mean (Tindering moderately, attending a couple of parties, dressing slightly more sexy than other girls only during the time she's in college), that's pretty doable. So doable, in fact, that I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of girls did it like this one I mentioned in particular does.
Most of my female friends aren't close to those numbers - probably around 3-10 depending on the girl, but they're about 22-23. Still, most of them were in a LTR during their 17-22s. So that's I wanted to hear from you guys.
What would you consider the typical partner count for the typical 17-22 girl in college?

How can one talk about sex love and relationship if he cannot feel love. If his love doesn't come from his heart but is something he
lists in a chart like a warehouse foreman.

and I'm against the approach that tries to go that gung-ho when it comes to relationships and I think Drck
has made a great post regarding this that I'd like to share,

Some may say couple words, blow balloons, show some card tricks and appear mysterious, yet the same may not work for others. So what's better? Better is simply what works for you....
So the whole point is to find out what works for you. There are some universal things that work better for every guy, and there are things that don't work at all for most. Do we have to know everything from GC? IMO there is no need, if you are an average guy, 10-20% of GC knowledge is more than enough to get laid with good quality girls... Many guys are not happy with 20% though, they want it all, they want at least 110%, which is sort of counterproductive since they have to work ten times harder - to get the same girls...

So when Chase asks,

What's a normal human being again?
Some of us grow up in pretty cool households that well prepare us for socializing with others and easily finding success.
Many of us are lacking in these departments, however, and look on in awe and envy at all those "normal human beings" who get the things they want out of life and then, when asked how they do it, simply reply with "Duh - just be yourself!"
So, the masses go out and say, "Okay, here I go - just going to be myself!" and spend years of their lives just being their regular normal selves and racking up failure and disappointment.

I use normal in terms of when a guy approaches a girl how it feels to him.
For example:
If a singer feels its cool to play the guitar when he's sitting at a cafe with his friends, HE SHOULD PLAY THE GUITAR!
but if someone else wouldn't feel up for that, he shouldn't.

In my opinion you should have fun with the person you're interested in. Not turn it into an ardous chore where you have to become
someone you're not to be with her. Trust your character and personality and just talk to her and see where it goes and
more importantly have fun doing it.

So regarding the text message thread I've mentioned
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10957
Like, that's who that person is! Another person may feel like texting jokes or attempt to manouver someone somewhere with letters
but in the end of the day, attempting to be someone you're not with this would pretty much defeat the whole purpose of what you're doing.


Also, to my friend Radeng please post again, I would like to know what you think of all this.

 

[Estate]

I found it really hard to understand your questions, where you put the "GirlsChase Views" parts, what you describe is not really what Girls Chase actually preaches. You've either taken it to some extreme or else taken the view from RSD like companies teachings.

The cool thing about GC is that it's NOT cultish. The info is put out there and you're free to either like it or not. To some guys it's eye opening and helpful. To others, it seems they won't accept it. But that's ok, nobody here will do the cultish PUA thing of forcing their views on you, we'll shrug our shoulders and you're free not to like it if you don't agree.

On the friendzone things... Again, you're very difficult to understand but it sounds like you're saying that friendzone is not a thing? How is that to be? Lets say you're in class and there's 20 women. Would you wifey up all 20 of them given an opportunity with any of them? I really doubt you would.

You probably like a few, a friendly with a few but not attracted to them and the other few maybe you'r neither friends nor attracted to them.
You've effectively "friendzoned" 2/3 of the class. If any of those women THREW themselves at you... would you enter a romantic relationship with them? I doubt it. But you say this is manipulative? Chase didn't say that AT ALL! I've only read that on bitter PUA and Red Pill blogs.

Here, it's acknowledged that often it's quite subconscious... if a women meets a man ad he quickly lets her know he seems her in a romantic sense then her initial perception of him is someone she either sees romantically, or not.
Now, maybe she's introduced to a guy through friends and he hangs in the background, isn't particularly well put together or attractive. Never really makes a move. Now she sees him as friendly, or nice but not in a romantic way. He's a "friend". If one day after a year, he suddenly tries to have sex with her... it's a shock. She doesn't see him that way. You can't just shift the relationship like that. Any relationship for that matter.... you can't suddenly start bossing your manager around or talking back to your superiors in school or work. It's too quick a shift too soon. But if their perception of you was ALWAYS as their superior (or in the girls case, not a friend), then it's not a shock when you act that way.

In the end man... you seem to be pushing a lot of very bitter red pill theories here rather than what GC has actually written. Fair enough, but you won't get much debate here if your points are not consistent.