FR date from footrace; how to break the "typical date"?

[PinotNoir]

Hey guys, been long a time.

This is one of those What Would You Do differently FRs. I'm pretty rusty. I've been busy with life, so I've had less dates and so less experience making me rusty. I'm mainly looking for advice that is different from what I already know that I did wrong (typed out below).

Looking back on the entire experience, it feels like what I think the "typical guy" does, but I don't want to be the typical guy. I'm curious what Chase-minded individuals would do differently.

This weekend, I was in another state about 2.50 hours away visiting some friends. Since it was a mini-vacation, I decided to use the opportunity to chat up some ladies. I asked out a few girls -- one of which was at my friend's gym that I was proud of -- but only 1 girl during the weekend ended up saying yes....

Approach
Saturday morning, one of my friends and I ran in a race. I finished before my friend. As I was waiting for him, I saw a hot Asian (on the date, I find out Taiwanese) girl finish. She approached the food area alone, and this seemed like a perfect opportunity for me to approach her....

I grabbed a banana near her and decided to go situational and just asked about how she did in the race and how she liked the race as an opener. My mind wasn't working that well, and there was a band playing, so I didn't really get into anything interesting. I think I asked about her work and her watch (wow, boring). Anyway, she had to go, so I asked for her number. After we realized that neither one of us had our phones on us, she went over to a table and grabbed a napkin and a pen (this has to be a good sign?). Then I wrote down her # as she told it out to me and as she was checking my writing over my shoulder.

3 major bad points here are:
1) I never commented on her beauty
2) I never made it clear that I was asking her # for a date
3) I didn't ask for her # on a high point (was there one? probably not)

Not so good, and after she left, I actually thought it was probably a fake # as my friend hadn't heard of the area code.

Banter
My friend and I stay a bit at the race eating and crap for about an hour.

When we get back to his place, I shoot her a text: "hey Name, enjoying those larabars from the run? this is Pinot from the race.". And I think I said something else, but I forget, and my phone's history from the first few texts are already gone.

Anyway, we end up having a lot in common and a lot of the same humor, so this is where I screw up, and we end up sending a total of like 170+ texts in 1 day (wtf!). I already know this is bad based on past experience, but I did it again! Luckily, it didn't turn out like my previous experience (i.e., talked too much on text and then had nothing to say on the date).

She had some resistance about age (I'm 27, and shes' 31), but after some convincing, I finally got her to agree to a date Sunday. I suggest something light like coffee or dinner; we end up deciding a quick dinner.

Date
I show up right on time (she's already there waiting). I give her a hug. I try to initially go for the cheek kiss, but our height difference makes this awkward, so I stop.

Date goes pretty well as far as conversation. We talk about all of the typical deep-diving stuff while also having plenty of sarcasm and laughs in it. I give the date probably a B; I could have done better.

I wanted to sit next to her, but they sat us at a bad table (would be in the way). I comment on how it feels like this huge space between us. Would you guys just ask for a different table? Since first date with girl I just met yesterday, I decided not to be too aggressive. (How do you make a date go well when only just met yesterday????)

2 things I regret:
1) I'm working on putting more sexual tension and flirtation in my speech on dates. At one point in the night, she said that she doesn't like dried fruit, and I said, "Ah, so just like it wet and juicy." And she exclaims, "Yeah, wet and juicy" while beaming (getting my flirting). I should have held eye contact and built sexual tension here with a pause. Instead, I immediately continued the conversation in fear of awkwardness.
2) She had tons of rings on. I should have asked to see them so I could have held her hand and built more physical touching.

Date is over. On the way out, I put my hand on her back and lead her just a small bit out of the door. Her car is directly in front of the restaurant (so people can see through the windows).

Originally, my intention was to pull her to the side and say, "Hey, before you go, I need to tell you something." Then kiss her. I pussied out. We gave each other a hug, but I wanted a cheek kiss, so right after the hug, I said, "I'm gonna give you a cheek kiss goodbye" and we both kiss on the cheeks. During the hug, she had turned her head very much to the side away from my lips, so this is why I felt compelled to say it and then do it. Afraid that I was going to kiss her on the lips? Not very good.

Conclusion / Questions
I meet this girl 1 day and then go on a date the next, and she can only meet for a short period of time (dinner, nothing after). How do you get the kiss on the first date here?

We both pretty much agree to a 2nd date as I'm leaving. Then I text her later that I had a good time, blah blah. Then we text that night and Monday through scattered parts of the day. I'm thinking about not texting tomorrow, unless she texts me first, because I don't want too much texting.

Lastly, I've been trying to set up a 2nd date, but she's extremely busy and distance might be hurting this (even if only 2.50 hours). I think we're gonna talk on the phone Wed night and sort it out. Any suggestions? I was thinking picnic with finger food and wine. I suggested various things to her and accidentally suggested food and movie at her place (idiot). She said, "Whoa, aren't you moving a bit fast?" (or something similar), and I replied back something like, "hey, I'm just throwing out ideas. you're the one thinking naughty thoughts "

Really cool girl and have good chemistry. I think her being extremely busy and distance might kill this. I hope not though.

How would Chase or GC-followers do this differently? How would you make this more sexual and get the kiss on the lips? I just felt very restricted on time, and I felt a bit of pressure because we had only just met ("stranger danger").

Thanks for reading and any advice as always.
-PN

 

[PinotNoir]

Thanks healthstar. I'm definitely kissing her no matter what next date (even if spontaneous kiss or I have to say some cheesy line ), and I will try to build more sexual tension into the kiss like you said.

Well, we met up for a 2nd "date." Long story (posted as comment on article).... but I pretty much got pseudo friendzoned. In short, she wants to be friends before dating. I tried changing that (e.g., "Dating is just light and fun, no expectations," etc.), and I ended up saying something kind of bad -- "Well, how long do you need to be friends with a guy first? A month?" and then smoothed it out and just accepted the frame. I even said, "Well, hey, I'm a big boy... if you want to just be friends, that is fine with me You can just say that." (I am paraphrasing, not exact quotes.) She ended up replying with doesn't want to be "dating" but also doesn't want to say that we are "just friends." Friends with benefits? I don't know. A weird grey area.

Anyway, next time I came into town, she ended up being very sick. I met her for breakfast and had good conversation, and then she went back home to sleep. Then, later that night we somehow got on the subject of a back rub, and I said I'd give her one. She put up some hurdles: "but, my place is a mess"; "you'll get sick"; "I can't stay up late." I broke all of those thankfully by keeping my text replies playful and being persistent, and she finally agreed.

I came over and massaged her back, her arms, her legs (thighs + calves), and feet (with lotion) for a good while on the couch together, and then we cuddled for a bit before I left.

I know.... why did I not kiss her? why did I not have sex with her?

Well, she was pretty sick, and I decided not to because she was obviously weak and tired and didn't feel good. However, I should have at least kissed her, and I regret not doing that. But, I definitely don't regret massaging a beautiful woman's body.

Afterwards, I had mixed feelings. One was happy because that was awesome just for the 2nd date. But, then I felt like I had let myself and Chase down haha.

Well, next time I'm in town, I'll definitely kiss her, if I didn't fuck things up by not escalating. I think we were both horny from it, and she might have a bad taste in her mouth because it did not escalate to sex (but hopefully understands since she was sick).

Hopefully, I get the 3rd "date" and it escalates somewhere. We click well as far as personality, and I don't want to ruin a potentially awesome relationship from moving too slow from the first 2 dates.

Do you guys think it was pretty bad that I didn't kiss her and/or have sex with her? Or, think it's okay since she was sick?

 

[BarryS1]

Hi Pinot,

I've been going to a couple races this year too. I love all the athletic girls and the friendly atmosphere there. That's cool you found a girl alone during the race. Usually, they cluster in groups and sit down somewhere.

What's your game plan for "working the area"? I found situational the best opener on secluded girls (like your case).

Conclusion / Questions
I meet this girl 1 day and then go on a date the next, and she can only meet for a short period of time (dinner, nothing after). How do you get the kiss on the first date here?
-PN

I think Chase would call this an informational date. I have taken a walk on the sidewalk to see the sunset and do the kiss there.

I know.... why did I not kiss her? why did I not have sex with her?

I think you are gonna have to get back in the swing of things again. I can tell you know where the mistakes were, just gotta get that muscle-memory back

 

[PinotNoir]

Thanks guys. Makes sense. Not much I can say in reply to your responses, just good to hear other people's thoughts/advice/tips/etc. I'm definitely going for it next date

What's your game plan for "working the area"? I found situational the best opener on secluded girls (like your case).

For a race, I can't help but always do this because it's too easy to do a situational opener. We all just did something together in a way. Then it just makes sense to talk about it. I should probably try something different though (to get women out of autopilot), but I haven't really found the need to yet. Even for a group of women, it seems fine. Ask about how they liked the race, talk about the course ("wow, that hill at mile 1.5 was brutal"), or things around the race (geese on course, sometimes food/band afterwards), etc.

As for regular runs (not races), then I do more of the typical direct openers on the street or at the park. I've read a lot of negative posts on the forums about the "Are you single?" line, but I live or die by it haha. I just really like it. I usually do: interjection to get her attention ("hey" or "hey, I never do this..."), direct compliment, maybe something witty-situational if I think of something, and then just "Are you single?"

What's your typical approach at races or runs?

 

[Chase]

Hey Pinot-

Argh, I wanted to yell at that second date! You had her on a platter (and could've made her feel way better!). But I understand if you're rusty and it's been a while, you'll get into a non-abundance mentality type thing and move slow and make mistakes. It happens. Hope you're able to get some new girls into the pipeline and shake some of that rust off.

Some thoughts on this one:

Looking back on the entire experience, it feels like what I think the "typical guy" does, but I don't want to be the typical guy. I'm curious what Chase-minded individuals would do differently.

Right, I got that impression too. Good that you picked up on it though - you're aware that you're getting this part off base, and know you need to fix it.

Anyway, we end up having a lot in common and a lot of the same humor, so this is where I screw up, and we end up sending a total of like 170+ texts in 1 day (wtf!). I already know this is bad based on past experience, but I did it again! Luckily, it didn't turn out like my previous experience (i.e., talked too much on text and then had nothing to say on the date).

With a really long distance between the two of you (a 3 hour drive?) I think a lot more rapport-building makes sense. Who made the drive, by the way - I'm guessing you did?

One note on things like these - IF you're going to be going super long distances to meet a girl, it's better that you don't let her know if you can avoid it. Just don't tell her where you live and meet her somewhere close to where she does. Otherwise, it'll be very clear to her who holds the power in the dynamic between the two of you (her: drives 5 minutes for date; you: drives 3 hours for date).

Alternately, if you can get her to drive 3 hours to see you, you stand a very good chance of having her spend the night.

(once you're meeting girls more regularly, or living in a big town where there are lots of women to meet, you'll tend to pass up traveling long distances to meet women, and just tell them to come meet you; if they will, very cool, and if they won't, meh, you've got more women to talk to anyway)

She had some resistance about age (I'm 27, and shes' 31), but after some convincing, I finally got her to agree to a date Sunday. I suggest something light like coffee or dinner; we end up deciding a quick dinner.

Oh, that's funny. She had problems with you being 4 years older than her? Even most white girls usually don't have a problem with an age gap like this, and Asian girls usually LOVE older men - the older the better. Some Asian chicks under 30 don't want a man under 40. I suspect if she knew the amount of time you'd have to drive to come meet her, she may have just been using this as an excuse to try and get out of the date - she didn't want you driving all that way and then feeling like you were "owed" something by her (like lots of guys think they are after putting in work for a girl).

I show up right on time (she's already there waiting). I give her a hug. I try to initially go for the cheek kiss, but our height difference makes this awkward, so I stop.

If you want sexual charm instead of friendly connection, rather than hug her, try just taking her hand and holding it for a moment, your wrist up, while staring into her eyes and smiling attractively. Give her hand a little squeeze. Then get on with the date.

If you're doing the cheek kiss that's solid as an opener, but a little too formal as a "nice to see you again" greeting in my opinion. Good for your brother's wife, but not as much for a girl you'd like to sleep with.

Date goes pretty well as far as conversation. We talk about all of the typical deep-diving stuff while also having plenty of sarcasm and laughs in it. I give the date probably a B; I could have done better.

A "B" when you're rusty is not so bad!

I wanted to sit next to her, but they sat us at a bad table (would be in the way). I comment on how it feels like this huge space between us. Would you guys just ask for a different table?

Yes: "This table's way too stiff and stodgy. [to waiter] Do you mind if we sit over here?" Then take her hand and lead her to the table you want and sit down next to her. "This one's MUCH better."

Also though - this sounds like a rather formal date (classic dinner date). Did you have a plan in mind - some kind of date compression - or were you just winging it? "Winging it" is one of the reasons most guys have such poor batting averages on sleeping with girls they go out with. Would suggest tapping these articles for a quick refresher if you were indeed kind of just doing whatever on this date:

• Date Templates: Minimize Confusion Maximize Returns
• Simplify Your Dates

Since first date with girl I just met yesterday, I decided not to be too aggressive. (How do you make a date go well when only just met yesterday????)

--> How to Get First Date Sex with Girls on Every Date

2 things I regret:
1) I'm working on putting more sexual tension and flirtation in my speech on dates. At one point in the night, she said that she doesn't like dried fruit, and I said, "Ah, so just like it wet and juicy." And she exclaims, "Yeah, wet and juicy" while beaming (getting my flirting). I should have held eye contact and built sexual tension here with a pause. Instead, I immediately continued the conversation in fear of awkwardness.
2) She had tons of rings on. I should have asked to see them so I could have held her hand and built more physical touching.

Both good realizations, yes.

Date is over. On the way out, I put my hand on her back and lead her just a small bit out of the door. Her car is directly in front of the restaurant (so people can see through the windows).

Originally, my intention was to pull her to the side and say, "Hey, before you go, I need to tell you something." Then kiss her. I pussied out. We gave each other a hug, but I wanted a cheek kiss, so right after the hug, I said, "I'm gonna give you a cheek kiss goodbye" and we both kiss on the cheeks. During the hug, she had turned her head very much to the side away from my lips, so this is why I felt compelled to say it and then do it. Afraid that I was going to kiss her on the lips? Not very good.

Well, don't beat yourself up. You were rusty and nervous and didn't have many girls in the pipeline... it happens. Just resolve to do better next time, and get a few more girls in the pipeline.

Conclusion / Questions
I meet this girl 1 day and then go on a date the next, and she can only meet for a short period of time (dinner, nothing after). How do you get the kiss on the first date here?

--> How to Kiss Girls in Public and Have It Go Great

Any suggestions? I was thinking picnic with finger food and wine.

This sounds fine (especially if it's somewhere out in the middle of nowhere that you can escalate to sex in the grass / woods / forest if it goes that direction!). I'd make sure I had logistics sorted out in case things got hot and heavy (e.g., go to your car; have a blanket if you want to do it in the woods; be nearby to your place or her place; etc.).

Well, we met up for a 2nd "date." Long story (posted as comment on article).... but I pretty much got pseudo friendzoned. In short, she wants to be friends before dating. I tried changing that (e.g., "Dating is just light and fun, no expectations," etc.), and I ended up saying something kind of bad -- "Well, how long do you need to be friends with a guy first? A month?" and then smoothed it out and just accepted the frame. I even said, "Well, hey, I'm a big boy... if you want to just be friends, that is fine with me You can just say that." (I am paraphrasing, not exact quotes.) She ended up replying with doesn't want to be "dating" but also doesn't want to say that we are "just friends." Friends with benefits? I don't know. A weird grey area.

Many (most?) people don't much "date" anymore, and it also gets kind of weird for most girls these days in the West if they find themselves stuck in a conventional dating structure. It's stuffy, it's formal, and it's kind of scary - it feels like a big commitment, before you've even had sex with this guy or gotten to know him in any kind of really honest, non-posturing way.

Better to stay away from conventional "dates" and just keep everything light and non-date-like and just be the cool, sexy guy she just sort of ends up sleeping with organically, rather than this big, high pressure dating "boyfriend-girlfriend tryouts" thing that might send her running for the hills. Women are pretty skittish about commitments these days.

Anyway, next time I came into town, she ended up being very sick. I met her for breakfast and had good conversation, and then she went back home to sleep. Then, later that night we somehow got on the subject of a back rub, and I said I'd give her one. She put up some hurdles: "but, my place is a mess"; "you'll get sick"; "I can't stay up late." I broke all of those thankfully by keeping my text replies playful and being persistent, and she finally agreed.

I came over and massaged her back, her arms, her legs (thighs + calves), and feet (with lotion) for a good while on the couch together, and then we cuddled for a bit before I left.

I know.... why did I not kiss her? why did I not have sex with her?

Well, she was pretty sick, and I decided not to because she was obviously weak and tired and didn't feel good. However, I should have at least kissed her, and I regret not doing that. But, I definitely don't regret massaging a beautiful woman's body.

I'd suspect this one's the nail in the coffin. It sounds like she was more interested in something light, modern, and sexy, while you were running it too conservatively and missed the huge escalation window here.

For future massages: have her take her clothes off as the massage gets hotter and heavier (so you can "properly massage" those parts of her body). When massaging her thighs, get closer and closer to her pussy, until you are brushing it lightly. At some point when she's getting lusty and aroused, climb atop her back (if she's on her stomach) so she can feel your erection as you massage her upper back and neck. Start biting her lightly and sucking on her flesh. Quit worrying about kissing her and treat her like a delicious, sumptuous woman you can't keep your body and mouth and hands away from.

Every woman wants to feel wanted. There's probably no worse feeling in the world for a woman than a man she's attracted to coming over, giving her a massage, and then not making a move. It's an insult to her powers as a feminine creature... she wants to know you can't help yourself around her because she's just so beautiful and sexy, and instead she's left feeling as if a man who's gotten his hands on her after driving 3 hours to see her ultimately just shrugged and said, "Well, okay, there's your massage, platonic buddy!" and then headed out without being affected by her one iota. Quite disempowering for her.

Next time, make her feel like a woman: give her the feeling that she enchants you, and you are helpless around her. Make her feel good. You'll enjoy it immensely yourself, I guarantee it.

Well, next time I'm in town, I'll definitely kiss her, if I didn't fuck things up by not escalating. I think we were both horny from it, and she might have a bad taste in her mouth because it did not escalate to sex (but hopefully understands since she was sick).

Yes, good, you're aware of it - escalation windows. Once they close, they rarely open back up.

If her being sick was genuinely an impediment, I'd say... well, life's short. Ejaculating forcefully inside of a new beautiful woman who wants you is usually worth coughing and hacking for a few days after in my book, especially if it's been a while for you. You can always take some Tylenol, but there's no medication for opportunities passed up. Bite the bullet and worry more about living a good life than living a sterile one, and life gets awesome.

Good to see you back in action, Pinot. And I hope you will continue approaching, and find some new girls to straighten things out with and get your engine clicking on all four cylinders with again!

Chase

 

[PinotNoir]

Chase, that is one of the best, most thoughtful, informative/description, and just generally cool replies that I have gotten. Thank you very much for that. I really appreciate it.

But I understand if you're rusty and it's been a while, you'll get into a non-abundance mentality type thing and move slow and make mistakes. It happens. Hope you're able to get some new girls into the pipeline and shake some of that rust off.

Yeah, and I think it's because we have such a strong connection. We have very similar personalities/humor, so that's probably what has made me be like this too.

I'm actually going out with 2 other girls this week that I didn't think would happen and had written off. One I'm meeting this Wed (unless she flakes), and is closer to my age and lives in my same city. She's also Asian, but not sure exactly where from, probably China. She doesn't get off work until 7, so I'm not quite sure how to run it. I'm thinking coffee, then maybe walk around the mall or park (depending on where I choose to have coffee), and then try to suggest a movie at her place or something.

The 2nd girl lives in the other city. She's 36 and Thai and also had problems with age, so I kind of wrote it off, but I ended up texting her this weekend, and she was open to meeting this Sunday when I'm in town. Again, not quite sure how to run it. I'll probably just ask her what's cool around where she lives that we can do one-on-one because I don't know the area, but at the same time, I know it's not good to have the girl decide the date.

Who made the drive, by the way - I'm guessing you did?

One note on things like these - IF you're going to be going super long distances to meet a girl, it's better that you don't let her know if you can avoid it. Just don't tell her where you live and meet her somewhere close to where she does. Otherwise, it'll be very clear to her who holds the power in the dynamic between the two of you (her: drives 5 minutes for date; you: drives 3 hours for date).

Alternately, if you can get her to drive 3 hours to see you, you stand a very good chance of having her spend the night.

(once you're meeting girls more regularly, or living in a big town where there are lots of women to meet, you'll tend to pass up traveling long distances to meet women, and just tell them to come meet you; if they will, very cool, and if they won't, meh, you've got more women to talk to anyway)

Yes, I made the drive. I'm starting to travel to this city every other weekend now to see my close friends there (and a lot more Asian women, and actually just more women in general walking the streets). I see the women in my city, and I just have no drive/passion to approach. I go there, and it's like night and day. I really need to move when I can (but will be quitting my current job soon and pursuing my dreams, so probably can't for a while).

You're definitely right about the power. Unfortunately, I've already screwed that up with every girl I met there haha. I thought that it was playing more in my favor, so I just let people know, and I do think it has made me more attractive to some women, but I can see the power dynamic leaning towards them like you said. I let them know that I just come to visit friends regularly, so hopefully that helps me.

I suspect if she knew the amount of time you'd have to drive to come meet her, she may have just been using this as an excuse to try and get out of the date - she didn't want you driving all that way and then feeling like you were "owed" something by her (like lots of guys think they are after putting in work for a girl).

Mmm, that definitely makes sense. I need to read between the lines more.

If you want sexual charm instead of friendly connection, rather than hug her, try just taking her hand and holding it for a moment, your wrist up, while staring into her eyes and smiling attractively. Give her hand a little squeeze. Then get on with the date.

If you're doing the cheek kiss that's solid as an opener, but a little too formal as a "nice to see you again" greeting in my opinion. Good for your brother's wife, but not as much for a girl you'd like to sleep with.

I like that. I'll try that with one of these other girls. I'll try that with her if I get a chance, but she's probably so used to the hug/cheek-kiss now that she'll be expecting that and might be awkward if I grab her hand instead.

Yes: "This table's way too stiff and stodgy. [to waiter] Do you mind if we sit over here?" Then take her hand and lead her to the table you want and sit down next to her. "This one's MUCH better."

Also though - this sounds like a rather formal date (classic dinner date). Did you have a plan in mind - some kind of date compression - or were you just winging it? "Winging it" is one of the reasons most guys have such poor batting averages on sleeping with girls they go out with.

I'll be doing this next time! Thanks.

Yeah, I'm probably winging it too much, but I get stuck mentally on how to plan when out of town and have to move back to her place. I'll re-read all of these articles. Also, on first dates, I obviously need work. I've tried getting the girl back to her place using yes-ladders and mentioning something at her place (or a movie if can't think of anything), but the girl usually puts up token resistance of "this is the first date; that's too soon." I need to make the 1st date feel like the 3rd date to her I guess. I'm just not doing something right on the 1st date.... but, it usually leads to a 2nd, so I'm not completely off.

Many (most?) people don't much "date" anymore, and it also gets kind of weird for most girls these days in the West if they find themselves stuck in a conventional dating structure. It's stuffy, it's formal, and it's kind of scary - it feels like a big commitment, before you've even had sex with this guy or gotten to know him in any kind of really honest, non-posturing way.

Better to stay away from conventional "dates" and just keep everything light and non-date-like and just be the cool, sexy guy she just sort of ends up sleeping with organically, rather than this big, high pressure dating "boyfriend-girlfriend tryouts" thing that might send her running for the hills. Women are pretty skittish about commitments these days.

This really made sense to me when you wrote it out. She even told me that there's "expectations" and such that she doesn't like. I guess I just didn't think about it from the women's perspective. Guys usually like things black&white.... we're dating or we're not. This way we can just be more of ourselves too. I don't like it when I date a girl and she starts changing herself to fit what I like; I'd rather her just be herself. She must be thinking along the same lines for guys, because guys do the same thing. And there's plenty of sexual flirting and innuendos in our texts and in-person conversation that it should be obvious that we're not just friends. I guess no need to label it.

I'd suspect this one's the nail in the coffin. It sounds like she was more interested in something light, modern, and sexy, while you were running it too conservatively and missed the huge escalation window here.

For future massages: have her take her clothes off as the massage gets hotter and heavier (so you can "properly massage" those parts of her body). When massaging her thighs, get closer and closer to her pussy, until you are brushing it lightly. At some point when she's getting lusty and aroused, climb atop her back (if she's on her stomach) so she can feel your erection as you massage her upper back and neck. Start biting her lightly and sucking on her flesh. Quit worrying about kissing her and treat her like a delicious, sumptuous woman you can't keep your body and mouth and hands away from.

Every woman wants to feel wanted. There's probably no worse feeling in the world for a woman than a man she's attracted to coming over, giving her a massage, and then not making a move. It's an insult to her powers as a feminine creature... she wants to know you can't help yourself around her because she's just so beautiful and sexy, and instead she's left feeling as if a man who's gotten his hands on her after driving 3 hours to see her ultimately just shrugged and said, "Well, okay, there's your massage, platonic buddy!" and then headed out without being affected by her one iota. Quite disempowering for her.

Next time, make her feel like a woman: give her the feeling that she enchants you, and you are helpless around her. Make her feel good. You'll enjoy it immensely yourself, I guarantee it.

Again, just really felt like you opened up my eyes here. I was thinking too much about the negative.... about her sickness and maybe feeling tired/uncomfortable. But, in truth, I never persisted towards sex, so I have NO clue what she really wanted inside. And I bet, like you said, she wanted a man to come over and make her feel desired and feel like a woman that night, and I fucked it up. If we meet one-on-one again, I'll definitely be kissing her and persisting towards sex, and hopefully I haven't been axed already. No woman wants to feel like a sexless cold robot.

If her being sick was genuinely an impediment, I'd say... well, life's short. Ejaculating forcefully inside of a new beautiful woman who wants you is usually worth coughing and hacking for a few days after in my book, especially if it's been a while for you. You can always take some Tylenol, but there's no medication for opportunities passed up. Bite the bullet and worry more about living a good life than living a sterile one, and life gets awesome.

Haha, very true. She was puking all Friday and Saturday (that's why we didn't meet up then). She looked pretty tired Sunday morning for breakfast (but said that she was feeling better), and when I came over Sunday night (after she had taken medicine and had had a long nap), she looked much much healthier. I shouldn't have thought about her past or the potential future for myself. Germs come and go haha. I won't be letting life slip past me like that again.


Thanks again for all of the insight. I'll be re-reading through this and the articles come Thursday. Yesterday, we were texting back and forth a bit, and I felt compelled to go ahead and ask about the weekend (I'll be in town to see my friends this weekend). She said that she might be going hang gliding out of town, so I said that's cool and enjoy, but then she said that it's always last minute and spontaneous and that she might not be going. I told her that's exciting. I think she wants to see me, but likes playing this guessing game haha. So, I don't know if I'll see her this weekend or not.

Either way, I got a date this Wed (in my town), and I have a date with the 36-year old Sunday afternoon (in the other town). Still, I put this girl as top priority on list of girls that I'm dating, so if she becomes free Sunday, I might have to tell the 36 girl that something came up.... does that make me an asshole?

Hopefully good things this week We'll see.