FR++ Date with an extremely logical Chinese girl

[ChrisXKiss]

Meeting

I had a date this afternoon with a Chinese girl I had met through daygame. We basically interacted only for about a minute when I approached her inside the local train station, so when I met her today I did not even recognize her. In fact we looked at each other, turned around and texted to realise it was the two of us, pretty awkward.

Anyway we met, I went for a hug, she was pretty stiff and not reciprocating at all, so I back off and realise physical contact will need a lot of priming. We started walking as I led her to a cafe next to my place, and while keeping her body language quite closed with her arms crossed most of the time she starts asking me a number of questions. How long I am here, what I am doing, why I am doing it, and her whole communication was extremely logical, I could be barely feel any emotion. She also told me why she is doing what she is doing right now, and she said she started with linguistics, but realised there are no job prospects so she transitioned to AI that is the trend now. Everything seemed to be extremely logical in her head.

For this reason it was very difficult for me to also get in a more excited state. Even when I was trying to tease her, she was either asking back what I mean, with real confusion in her eyes, or she was answering everything literally, without understanding the subtext of the comment or question. At least from time to time she was uncrossing the arms.

At the cafe

We arrived at the cute cafe, we sat down, and even though there was a couch, she stayed so far away from me that she put her drink at the table next to the one I had mine, since they were both empty. Of course with her bag also between us, and every move to get even a bit physical would be looking extremely try hard with this distance. I think I only tried touching her upper arm once or twice.

We stayed there at the cafe, and honestly I feel that the only times she really smiled from her heart and showed any reaction was when I said things that she felt really connected to. For example she was saying how she was calling her professor to tell him to fail her exam because she wanted to take it again for a better grade, and when I told her that yeah that's great, I've done a lot of that myself, she lit up and was like really? they all call me crazy here.

I tried to move the discussion towards hobbies, interests, a bit more emotional topics, but her answers were always yeah I go and run, I do pilates, I go to the gym with a super serious face. I even told her how it's cool she is doing pilates, and she responded confused: What do you mean? Cool is something you say for things guys do, how can pilates be cool, it has barely any guys in there.

I also moved the conversation to friendships and relationships, she said in fact that she is a very open person that wants to meet new people but finds it difficult to make friends here and she doesn't understand how people can decide to have just 2-3 friends and spend their whole life with them. She also said she had a boyfriend in China, but their values and long term life goals did not eventually align.

I told her that this is important for sure but it needs time to get to know each other and the important thing is to follow your heart, what you desire, and live life with passion every moment, if you feel something go for it and explore it. Because the connection between a man and a woman is the most beautiful thing in all forms mentally, spiritually and sexually.

I didn't get into more sexual topics in fact and now I think I should have gone for it, because sure why not we would have simply had a logical discussion about sex. I guess the vibe was so non seductive that it felt off for me to get into that there.

The plan in the beginning was to meet for about an hour, because she wanted to go back and work more on her master project, and the hour was basically over. But she had told me that she doesn't have a strict time for getting back so I proposed we go to my palce for a bit to show her some art I have on my walls.

I had asked her before if she is artistic to plan the seed and she said that she has been to certain museums and loved them. At that moment though she did say that it is late and she has to go back, and was hesitant to come to my place, and was saying we could do it next time. I told her that it is very close, we will stay for 10 minutes and then she goes back.

I'd say that it didn't take too much convincing, since I was very firm on me wanting to show her the art, my place being extremely close, and her leaving after just a bit. We stood up walked literally 20 meters and arrived at my building.

At my place

She did comment on the architecture of the building and when we got into my apartment she was just standing there inside in the hall looking into my room without getting in. I told her to make herself home, take her shoes off and take a seat, but she wasn't really doing it, at some point she even said something like: It's so unusual, coming to a guy's place the first time you meet.

I kinda ignored that, asked if she wanted a drink and she said no, I took the first step into my room then and invited her in. She eventually left the bag, took of the shoes to not harm the wood and came. She mentioned a small table I had, I showcased how it can be useful when you chill at the couch, went and sat there and told her she can come sit but she was staying standing.

She went around the room looking at the paintings, asking me the meaning behind them and commenting on the colours. She was always standing like she was at some short of art gallery, I went for some water and she didn't want that either. We spent few minutes standing next to each other looking at the paintings and talking about them and I did at that moment to just go for the kiss.

The thing is though that she wasn't really showing any kind of opening, she even kept her arms crossed in there, and wasn't even giving me any kind of eye contact. I gave her a warm compliment about her cute shocks at some point and she said a straight thanks. It felt like there was nothing emotional registering, so I was very confused on whether it made sense to just grab her and bring her in for a kiss.

After we talked about all the paintings she said she had to go and I could come with her up until the station she would go back to. So that's what we did, during the walk we talked about how difficult it was to get a house and how I found it, and eventually we reached a point where I told her I would go to another direction and we parted ways.

I hugged her again and it didn't feel any less stiff or non reciprocative than in the beginning. I also told her I enjoyed the time, and she said she did too.

Conclusions

That's the story more or less, and to be honest her whole vibe doesn't really excite me that much, I mean the whole logical energy, but simply from a technical point I wonder how you seduce these kinds of girls.

I think I should have just taken the initiative inside my place to go for the kiss when we were standing next to each other looking at the paintings. I thought about it for few moments, just to escalate and see what happens, but she was giving me nothing and soon she just said she would leave.

My whole idea back in my place was to try and make the situation a bit smoother, by at least offering her something, having her sit to be a bit more relaxed, trying to create some silences to look at her. I guess I've done awkward escalations were the vibe wasn't much there, so I was thinking how to not just jump for the kiss again.

But I cannot even think how you can build a vibe with such a girl that is totally logical in her communication. So I think in the end maybe I should have just talked more about sex and even jumped for a kiss in the end, and escalated no matter what.

Now there is also the question whether I want to go through all that again and just try to bring her home another time with a different excuse and try to escalate. I think the answer to this is probably not that much, so I had nothing to lose by going all the way today.

That said I am not totally against trying again, as some sexual experience could probably be exciting with any kind of woman, who knows what kind of sexual beast she is and how much fun we could have. The only thing is I don't want to lead her on and just have sex with her.

With most women if you present yourself as a sexual guy, they are fine with letting themselves get excited and live the experience, but she doesn't even seem to be connected with that excitement. So it feels a bit escalating on a totally uninterested woman and it weirds me out. Maybe she will get extremely interested when the physical contact starts but until then if I see no signs of openness it feels off.

All in all, it was interesting, mostly because it was supposed to be an 1 hour informational date, then she said she doesn't have a strict time to go back, so I thought ok let's try a pull and see how it works. Her whole vibe was unique for sure, never had anyone come to my place and literally treat it as an art gallery, walking around and then leaving, that said I do feel that it was a bit too much for me.

I did some approaches after the date, not much success, a lot of boyfriends today, but I could instantly feel the feminine energy of some of the women. I talked for a bit to a married 48 year old for God's sake, and she had me extremely hard with her voice and general energy in seconds, while I couldn't feel anything during the whole date. Not to mention the extremely hot tall girl with the extra revealing clothing that I met again and even though she basically rejected me right away, just the tension we had while holding eye contact made me fired up.

I suppose that for learning and developing the skill going after all different kinds of women is valuable, gladly though there are always some around the corner that make you remember exactly why you want to get great at this. To be slaying girls like them constantly and having them beg for more.

 

[theReason]

I had asked her before if she is artistic

she’s artistic alright.

But I cannot even think how you can build a vibe with such a girl that is totally logical in her communication. So I think in the end maybe I should have just talked more about sex and even jumped for a kiss in the end, and escalated no matter what.

The forum is pretty dry on tips for bedding acutely autistic women. Chase hasn’t even gone so far as to physically escalate with one.

that said, PLEASE do not kiss this girl without asking direct verbal consent. do not ramp up physical escalation with this girl without asking direct verbal consent.

for people with autism, escalation is tied to the woman’s “direct verbal consent”

unlike a girl playing coy, this girl is not sending signals because she literally does not send signals.

if you bring her over again (and i want to say you can literally invite her over for drinks at your place, your apartment is an unlocked place on the videogame map for her, she probably won’t think too hard about social implications)

hypothetical situation: you guys each get a drink, at your place, she’s finished her drink or 15 minutes have passed, whichever comes earlier; you can literally ask her questions such as

“are you currently interested in pursuing a physical relationship?”

“are you physically attracted to me?”/“would you like to act on those impulses?”

“may i kiss you?”

and when you go forward, itemize your escalations and ask consent, as in,

“may i remove your x item of clothing”/“can i feel/fondle/massage your x body part”/“can i put my finger inside”

or you can also give commands like

“remove your x item of clothing”

where it is implied that if she does so she is consenting because she has the choice to go forward or not

if it gets as far as fucking something like “are you ready” will do.

the idea that Chase has here, more or less that autistic women Believe Word-for-Word Written Societal Norms on Sexual Relationships, is congruent with everything that is said on the forum regarding the separation of the Logical and Emotional selves of a woman, where the Emotional self of a woman governs who she has sex with.

With an autistic woman, who can be modeled as a Logical self embodied in physical form, the “Oh I only date 6’4 white guys with above 50k in their savings accounts that want 2.5 children with me and no sex before marriage” these kinds of general statements “Never move forward in a sexual interaction without Direct Verbal Consent, Anything Done Without Direct Verbal Consent Is RAPE” some women talk like this (because talking is a Logical act), but it takes an autistic woman for the Self-That-Governs-Her-Body to believe them and act accordingly. (aka file a lawsuit for unwanted sexual contact over a spontaneous kiss, and mean it)

there’s the seduction-correct way of doing things, designed for dealing with women that understand sexual activity better than most men (i.e. the majority of women), and then there’s the written law Politically Correct way of initiating sexual activity, and i guarantee you the politically correct one is the only one she has read (unless she’s a big fan of girlschase)

she still has physical desires and a need for human connection, she just doesn’t know the womanly way of getting what she wants, she’ll never understand it, and you aren’t going to safely put your dick in her pussy unless you go about it the way she understands (legally binding consent agreements)

 

[Gorili]

@ChrisXKiss,

I interact with this type on a regular basis, so I'm familiar with what's effective and am qualified to answer this. In the US, this type of international girls is quite prevalent in grad school and STEM fields like tech, for the ones who are working. You might label them as autistic, or you might not, but that doesn't really matter. What's important is that they should be viewed as their own archetype (similar to a Western party girl, hipster, etc.) I can also tell you from experience that this archetype is much more ubiquitous in Asian societies, so this isn't a one-off thing.

As an example, here's a girl who admits that she's pretty much the homebody type with no relationship experience from Asia (similar but not exactly the same as yours); this is the first meet (Set 3) and then the date.

We stayed there at the cafe, and honestly I feel that the only times she really smiled from her heart and showed any reaction was when I said things that she felt really connected to. For example she was saying how she was calling her professor to tell him to fail her exam because she wanted to take it again for a better grade, and when I told her that yeah that's great, I've done a lot of that myself, she lit up and was like really? they all call me crazy here.

One of the keys to getting her to open up and cracking the shell is to focus on her upbringing and her true perspective on it. What I quoted was probably the closest that you got, but you can't be blamed given that this is a new archetype for you.

Imagine you're raised in a society where you spend 7am - 10pm every weekday in high school studying, which is what the girl in my report did and similar to what a lot of top students in East Asia have to go through given the immense competition. All of this is to prepare you for a college entrance exam where most people pretty much only get one chance to take. This exam then dictates your entire future. Once you're in college, you're competing with the best in the country for good grades and to secure a handful of good jobs out there. If you can't grab one of those good jobs, you can attend grad school, delay graduation for a few years, and then try again. This is her reality.

When deep diving her, you should have her gone through her upbringing in a chronological order and elicit her feelings at each stage. This is similar to a compare and contrast of what was expected of her and how she really felt. Given how strict a lot of parents and schools are back home, this is something that she normally doesn't tell others unless to those who are really close to her so you'll be making significant inroads. Specifically, by the time you can answer these question, you're on the right track:

• What did you want to do when you were younger? What do your parents want you to do? How has their opinion eventually affected you?
• How did you feel about the studying / learning culture in high school? College?
• How do you wish things were different?

At the end of the day, you're essentially pacing her reality and showing that you understand her background. This will get her to open up much more quickly.

After this is when you want to share your experience and the educational culture from your home country. I'm in the US, and things here are a breeze compared to East Asia. Whenever I share this, they're always surprised and happy to hear that there's an easier alternative out there. If she's working, I would do something similar but for the work culture. Essentially, it's another compare and contrast.

She also told me why she is doing what she is doing right now, and she said she started with linguistics, but realised there are no job prospects so she transitioned to AI that is the trend now.

This is moving from humanities to STEM. Similar to the points above, this is a hugeee jump for her, so I'm sure you could have generated plenty of discussion with deep diving.

I told her that this is important for sure but it needs time to get to know each other and the important thing is to follow your heart, what you desire, and live life with passion every moment, if you feel something go for it and explore it. Because the connection between a man and a woman is the most beautiful thing in all forms mentally, spiritually and sexually.

As someone who generally uses a more technical style, I can tell you that flower lines and fancy gambits like this will not work on this type until she has opened up. It's like throwing a rock at a tank in the earlier stages. And this is for someone who can also speak her language.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

she’s artistic alright.

Yeah I felt she could be, I guess I've been extremely logical in my life in the past so couldn't say if it was just the way she was brought up.

that said, PLEASE do not kiss this girl without asking direct verbal consent. do not ramp up physical escalation with this girl without asking direct verbal consent.

for people with autism, escalation is tied to the woman’s “direct verbal consent”

unlike a girl playing coy, this girl is not sending signals because she literally does not send signals.

Interesting, and it makes sense. I was approaching it by trying to find ways to ignite an erotic desire in her, and thought maybe I should just go ultra direct to show her what this is about if she doesn't get it. But I understand that it's not that she just doesn't get it, this form of emotional communication is out of her reality.

if you bring her over again (and i want to say you can literally invite her over for drinks at your place, your apartment is an unlocked place on the videogame map for her, she probably won’t think too hard about social implications)

hypothetical situation: you guys each get a drink, at your place, she’s finished her drink or 15 minutes have passed, whichever comes earlier; you can literally ask her questions such as

I may try bringing her back again now I that I understand the situation. And in a way I like this process with the questions. One thing I wonder is what you do if she just says no to one, do you try to logically argue why you are a good option for sex?

Or if she says something like: "May I kiss you?", "Kissing is something people do in committed relationships, why would you kiss me here?", is there a way to overcome the objection? Maybe telling her that people also kiss outside of relationships or trying to logically explain to her that you can simply have sex for sex and not for a relationship?

And basically this is my biggest fear that if I eventually escalate and do it with her, she will feel that now we are a thing. And I wonder how to build a frame that we can just have sex to enjoy it and not get into a relationship, so that I don't give her false hopes. Would literally telling her: "I am sexually attracted to you and want to pursue physical intimacy without any plans for the future. Would you like that?" be effective?

With an autistic woman, who can be modeled as a Logical self embodied in physical form, the “Oh I only date 6’4 white guys with above 50k in their savings accounts that want 2.5 children with me and no sex before marriage” these kinds of general statements “Never move forward in a sexual interaction without Direct Verbal Consent, Anything Done Without Direct Verbal Consent Is RAPE” some women talk like this (because talking is a Logical act), but it takes an autistic woman for the Self-That-Governs-Her-Body to believe them and act accordingly. (aka file a lawsuit for unwanted sexual contact over a spontaneous kiss, and mean it)

Yeah it did feel life she was grilling me a lot about what I am doing in my life, but without seeing any reaction I wasn't even sure if she likes what she hears or not. Good thing I didn't jump for the kiss like that though, I surely didn't have in mind it could backfire that much.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

As an example, here's a girl who admits that she's pretty much the homebody type with no relationship experience from Asia (similar but not exactly the same as yours); this is the first meet (Set 3) and then the date.

I get what you mean, I've also studied in the field so these girls are indeed around quite a bit. I do feel though that mine was indeed autistic now. I saw Chase's comment in the other thread and fits a lot of the descriptions, and really it's not that she was just socially inexperienced.

It felt that the things I was saying were not processed like by most people in her head. I would ask if she artistic, and she would be like: I visited X city. And I had to conclude that my question made her think of her travel to this specific city and the museum she saw. But there was no bridging between these things, and no sign of emotion in her face like ah now you reminded me of that.

With her vibe I can imagine this kind of discussion you had going like:

-What's wrong?
-What do you mean?
-I can tell that something's bothering you. You know you can just tell me, right?
-Why do you think something is bothering me?

All with a straight confused face.

One of the keys to getting her to open up and cracking the shell is to focus on her upbringing and her true perspective on it. What I quoted was probably the closest that you got, but you can't be blamed given that this is a new archetype for you.

Imagine you're raised in a society where you spend 7am - 10pm every weekday in high school studying, which is what the girl in my report did and similar to what a lot of top students in East Asia have to go through given the immense competition. All of this is to prepare you for a college entrance exam where most people pretty much only get one chance to take. This exam then dictates your entire future. Once you're in college, you're competing with the best in the country for good grades and to secure a handful of good jobs out there. If you can't grab one of those good jobs, you can attend grad school, delay graduation for a few years, and then try again. This is her reality.

Yeah I can see that, and in fact that's basically how I also grew up more or less so I can totally relate. I usually don't talk about it with women because I feel it's gonna set all the wrong frames of having no life when young and being uncool, but I suppose it's good to keep in mind that with certain girls that have been very goal oriented since they were kids it could build a good connection.

When deep diving her, you should have her gone through her upbringing in a chronological order and elicit her feelings at each stage. This is similar to a compare and contrast of what was expected of her and how she really felt. Given how strict a lot of parents and schools are back home, this is something that she normally doesn't tell others unless to those who are really close to her so you'll be making significant inroads. Specifically, by the time you can answer these question, you're on the right track:

• What did you want to do when you were younger? What do your parents want you to do? How has their opinion eventually affected you?
• How did you feel about the studying / learning culture in high school? College?
• How do you wish things were different?

At the end of the day, you're essentially pacing her reality and showing that you understand her background. This will get her to open up much more quickly.

I do like this process, I will keep it in mind for seduction in general as building emotional connection is something I want to work more on.

That said in this scenario I really couldn't feel any emotions to elicit. It felt like everything was blank with her. I can't really explain it, but a lot of her answers were frustrating in the sense of how devoid of emotions they were. Like you were talking to a robot that was experiencing life.

This is moving from humanities to STEM. Similar to the points above, this is a hugeee jump for her, so I'm sure you could have generated plenty of discussion with deep diving.

Yeah it's possible I could have gone deeper. The thing is that her way of expressing herself was very clear-cut, changing because she wanted good job prospects.

And again no emotion about it at all. No: *Sigh* I really liked linguistics but couldn't make any money, so I felt I should go and follow the trend. But more like: I did linguistics. There is no money there. So I thought where to transition. And machine learning is the future.

Maybe I was just not excited to get even deeper myself looking at how she was going about it.

As someone who generally uses a more technical style, I can tell you that flower lines and fancy gambits like this will not work on this type until she has opened up. It's like throwing a rock at a tank in the earlier stages. And this is for someone who can also speak her language.

Yeah I think I just wanted to let the topic of relationships and sex out there, because at that moment I was thinking of a way to have her ready in the case of the pull in few minutes. But I totally get what you mean, the work before that was lacking.

 

[theReason]

Chris, to all your questions, idk. I don’t have “woman advice” for you, i’m just trying to protect you from an FRA. call me the most anxious newb on the board.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Just for reference, I did text her two days ago:

"Hey, hope you are doing well. I am enjoying the good weather. Let me know if you are free to have a drink at my place "

I was left on read, so I guess it wasn't that simple to get her over again.

Maybe it could have worked in a smoother way, but it was the only evening I had free from planned dates and thought about giving it a shot.

 

[Gorili]

Just for reference, I did text her two days ago:

"Hey, hope you are doing well. I am enjoying the good weather. Let me know if you are free to have a drink at my place "

I was left on read, so I guess it wasn't that simple to get her over again.

Maybe it could have worked in a smoother way, but it was the only evening I had free from planned dates and thought about giving it a shot.

I would've texted her using a different structure: open -> banter -> etc. See some of the guides from Skills for good examples, as this is the higher odds play here instead of going for a close right off the bat. We don't know where her head is at after the date.

This girl is not the type who would be ready to go to your place directly and have a drink yet. Remember, she's autistic and needs much more trust and comfort. I would propose another meet in public, but something different from last time. You're thinking of pull, pull, pull but she's not ready yet.

On Monday morning, send her a 'morning' with sun emoji to re-open her. Alternatively, you can search for a 'happy Monday' GIF.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I would've texted her using a different structure: open -> banter -> etc. See some of the guides from Skills for good examples, as this is the higher odds play here instead of going for a close right off the bat. We don't know where her head is at after the date.

This girl is not the type who would be ready to go to your place directly and have a drink yet. Remember, she's autistic and needs much more trust and comfort. I would propose another meet in public, but something different from last time. You're thinking of pull, pull, pull but she's not ready yet.

On Monday morning, send her a 'morning' with sun emoji to re-open her. Alternatively, you can search for a 'happy Monday' GIF.

Yeah I agree with your approach.

I guess I wasn't that interested so I mostly texted just to see if I can plan something spontaneous, since I was free.

Not sure if I want to stay in touch for longer though. The whole autistic vibe kinda tired me, so maybe I will send something just to keep the connection, but in general I would take most of the other girls I have met lately over her, if I had to choose.